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Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Mymearan wrote:
In this scenario the Wraithknight would also have, say, 20 wounds and a 3+ save, while the lasguns would have no rend, so it would take 180 shots to kill it on average. A player who focused their guardsmen on killing a Wraithknight this inefficiently would probably not last long in a game. And this is assuming the rules would be unchanged from AoS, which they most likely wouldn't since shooting is much more prevalent in 40k (it works better in melee where much fewer guardsmen would be able to physically reach the Wraithknight). It continues to baffle me how so many people fail to see that set To Hit and To Wound, combined with a very high number of wounds and the Rend mechanic, means that the interactions between very strong and very weak units is much the same as in 40k. The "now my goblins can kill your dragon!" argument fails to take any of this into account.


You know it's silly and stupid even if you don't kill unwounded target in one go in average?

You DO know you don't need to kill target in one go to kill it right? There's no "if you didnt' kill this in one go it comes back to full wounds" rule in AOS you know...Warmaster yes but not AOS and unlikely 40k 8th ed would have that either so your point is moot.

Stupid and illogical rule is stupid and illogical. Lasgun shouldn't be able to hurt land raider period. Land raiders, monoliths and titans shouldn't have to worry about anything but dedicated anti-tank weapons even to hurt or finish them off. Lasgun should bounce up period. Heavy bolter sound just bling on the armour. If not then the rules are broken.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/23 12:41:24


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Binabik15 wrote:
Is there a chance that we'll get more images or infos about the Death Guard from this or are they done?


God I hope so. I watched the video a couple more times (they addressed the 7th Legion thing, and the one on YT is different now I believe), and the miniatures look fantastic.

I'm also 100% convinced that that's Mortarion at the end.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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Baltimore, Maryland

 NpSkully wrote:
 nels1031 wrote:
Spoiler:
 kronk wrote:
So I played 1 round/turn of shadowspire after the event last night. I worked all day, drove through Heavy traffic to get my buddy from O'Hare,, and had not eaten for 10 hours at the point, so I was tired and hungry. I was not terribly focused on the game. Just so you know where I was.

The minis were decent for push pin style minis (starter box minis). They said in the announcement there would be more factions and add-ons; they were not sure about more boards. There were apparently a lot more board options in the box.

You get 4 activations per turn. You drew 5 action/upgrade cards and 3 victory cards. The mechanics were I activate a dude, I can play a card to buff it or weaken yours, and you can retaliate with a card. I can then move, attack something next to me, or charge something (move and attack). If you charge, then that mini is done. If you move or hit, you can keep using that dude. Some have more attacks, some have more health, some do more damage, and some move further. There were other rules that we did 't bother with in the demo, too. There were also victory cards. For example, after the round, if you had a dude stand on an objective, you got a coin. You could use that to buy an upgrade card like +1 defense or heal 3 wounds or something.

There were stat cards for your dudes. Normal mode is how you start. If you "power up" and go "super Scion" or whatever the nerd behind me kept saying, you flipped the card. The other side had more attacks or sounds or some other benefits. I was unclear on that mechanic. Expansions could have more factions, cards, boards, and other stuff.

All in all, it looked like a brutal game. The guys next to us killed at least 2 of each other's dudes. Only 1 of my guys died in the round.


Also, guess who my instructor was!






Kronk, don't take this the wrong way, as I generally enjoy your posts and we always seem to be on the same wavelength, but if you have actual NEWS and RUMOURS, take it to the appropriate thread in 40K rules discussion forum.

This thread is for debating how changes to morale mechanics have already ruined 8th edition 40K. And Normandy and stuff.

I'm pretty upset that you tried to derail this thread, tbh. Shame, sir. Shame.

It's not irrational to have a reaction to a complete re-design of a game youve put considerable time, money, and effort in to. If you honestly expect rules reveals to not be followed by discussion and historical/real life comparisons and analysis, you need to think again.


Sure, but there ample and designated spaces elsewhere for such a discussion. If I'm only interested in news and rumours, and I come to a news and rumors thread that seems like 3/4ths of it is "debating" a throwaway sentence about 1 change to the rules, its a pain in the ass to find bespoke news and rumors.

Not blaming you or trying to single you out, homeboy. I, and I'm sure a few others of us just want discussions to happen where they belong, is all. Probably a losing endeavour on my part, as there is a mod actively posting about how his 40K is ruined by AoS rules.

Edit: For instance, there is a "40K is getting AoS'd" thread in the 40K forum thats 3 pages at present, whereas this News and Rumours thread has been at least 10 pages of the same thing. Which one is the more appropriate place to have that discussion?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/23 12:56:22


"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
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tneva82 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 auticus wrote:
Also the concept that anything can kill anything is positive for me.

It lets more into the game than you normally see and gives purpose to things you would never take for fear of being hard countered.

No one wants to take a unit that can't hurt something, so that unit stays on the shelf.


Funny. You see rifle armed guys in pretty much any wargame despite rifles generally unable to hurt tanks...

Guess it's too much to ask for people to you know...vary their armies and not just spam one thing because it can hurt everything. Nooooo! Taking tank busting weapons to deal with tanks rather than knife is too advanced concept I guess.


100% agreed.
   
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 Mymearan wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Duncan! I'd drink his paint water!
I shook his hand. Are ya jealous?



Mr. CyberPunk wrote:
Since Initiative will pretty much become useless with the new ''alway's strike first on the charge'' rule, I'd like it if you could overwatch at your full BS if you pass a Ini. test
Oh, I think you're in for some bad news. 40K ain't gonna have an Initiative stat. It's going to be Move, Wounds, Save and Bravery.

And then a big table explaining how your Lasgun can now wound a Wraithknight on a 5+.




In this scenario the Wraithknight would also have, say, 20 wounds and a 3+ save, while the lasguns would have no rend, so it would take 180 shots to kill it on average. A player who focused their guardsmen on killing a Wraithknight this inefficiently would probably not last long in a game. And this is assuming the rules would be unchanged from AoS, which they most likely wouldn't since shooting is much more prevalent in 40k (it works better in melee where much fewer guardsmen would be able to physically reach the Wraithknight). It continues to baffle me how so many people fail to see that set To Hit and To Wound, combined with a very high number of wounds and the Rend mechanic, means that the interactions between very strong and very weak units is much the same as in 40k. The "now my goblins can kill your dragon!" argument fails to take any of this into account.



No, no, no. Don't you see? Only these specific things will change, everything else will stay -exactly- the same. So, Wraithknights and other MCs/GMCs are basically useless. Better burn them as soon as possible. Also, there's only one possible way to introduce an armor save modifier, and that's guaranteed to make tactical marines garbage. Because if modifiers are introduced, there's no way there's going to be changes to armor too. So, elite units are now trash. Same goes for hordes, btw. They'll just melt to the new morale rules. In fact, every single unit in the game is now trash. Everyone will lose all of their games. Forever.

The game is ruined. And so is my life.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go burn all of my possessions and post a video of it on youtube so those bastards in Nottingham will see how their cruel actions affect lives!

"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
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Which is how you get things like the guys taking all flyers or all tanks in the past because they were basically nullifying the entire other player save for their certain weapons.

I agree with the concept of anti-tank options. However in the cherry-picking world of wargames where people can just take an extreme version of an army to bring the rock to someone's scissors I will always support the system that breaks that up a little bit.

And whose to say that tanks won't have a rule that makes them immune to non anti-tank weapons or weapons that have that keyword anyway?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/23 12:50:30


 
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






I forgot about To Hit rolls.

It would take 540 guardsmen shots to kill the Wraithknight in the scenario I posited.

Ah, the simple guardsman, such a Swiss army knife, just bring 500+ of them and you can kill anything! Yes, it would truly break the game. Why would anyone ever take anti-tank weapons again?

Just like no one ever takes anything but 200+ goblins in AoS. So tired of seeing these all-Goblin armies with no variety, no one ever uses elite, high rend units to kill monsters.

Oh wait.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/03/23 12:55:23


 
   
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Courageous Beastmaster





I prefer a granular system over save or die. The current leadership all or nothing hits some units really hard. Others have so many ways of reducing/controlling the effects of morale so it's a useless time wasting mechanic currently.

I like the preview, they're dong what I was expecting/ realistically hoping use AoS GHB as a template for 40K.

Unit types dissapearing= good. I mean why have page refferring to a page to another 2-3. page where you find the actual rule. that is for standard jum infantry. Get rid of the USR section in the book. Just pprint all special rules on the actual warscroll and let people learn from there. This also means less accidental interaction and a much clearer view.

Modifiers=great right now it's way too "do or die". I also hope they make cover (and maybe even invul) a positive modifier so we only have one save (sound familliar?).




 
   
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 Thud wrote:
No, no, no. Don't you see? Only these specific things will change, everything else will stay -exactly- the same. So, Wraithknights and other MCs/GMCs are basically useless.


You must have strong arms after spending all that time moving big bags of straw everywhere.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 Thud wrote:
 Mymearan wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Duncan! I'd drink his paint water!
I shook his hand. Are ya jealous?



Mr. CyberPunk wrote:
Since Initiative will pretty much become useless with the new ''alway's strike first on the charge'' rule, I'd like it if you could overwatch at your full BS if you pass a Ini. test
Oh, I think you're in for some bad news. 40K ain't gonna have an Initiative stat. It's going to be Move, Wounds, Save and Bravery.

And then a big table explaining how your Lasgun can now wound a Wraithknight on a 5+.




In this scenario the Wraithknight would also have, say, 20 wounds and a 3+ save, while the lasguns would have no rend, so it would take 180 shots to kill it on average. A player who focused their guardsmen on killing a Wraithknight this inefficiently would probably not last long in a game. And this is assuming the rules would be unchanged from AoS, which they most likely wouldn't since shooting is much more prevalent in 40k (it works better in melee where much fewer guardsmen would be able to physically reach the Wraithknight). It continues to baffle me how so many people fail to see that set To Hit and To Wound, combined with a very high number of wounds and the Rend mechanic, means that the interactions between very strong and very weak units is much the same as in 40k. The "now my goblins can kill your dragon!" argument fails to take any of this into account.



No, no, no. Don't you see? Only these specific things will change, everything else will stay -exactly- the same. So, Wraithknights and other MCs/GMCs are basically useless. Better burn them as soon as possible. Also, there's only one possible way to introduce an armor save modifier, and that's guaranteed to make tactical marines garbage. Because if modifiers are introduced, there's no way there's going to be changes to armor too. So, elite units are now trash. Same goes for hordes, btw. They'll just melt to the new morale rules. In fact, every single unit in the game is now trash. Everyone will lose all of their games. Forever.

The game is ruined. And so is my life.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go burn all of my possessions and post a video of it on youtube so those bastards in Nottingham will see how their cruel actions affect lives!

Your sarcasm is duly noted.

"You see, Necrons have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shut down"
- 25 Star Imperial Guard General Zapp Brannigan 
   
Made in gb
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Cardiff

The referencing in 7th is ridiculous. The fact that some rules then reference another rule instead of being just called that rule... stupid.

Bring on the update.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Couch

 nels1031 wrote:
 NpSkully wrote:
 nels1031 wrote:
Spoiler:
 kronk wrote:
So I played 1 round/turn of shadowspire after the event last night. I worked all day, drove through Heavy traffic to get my buddy from O'Hare,, and had not eaten for 10 hours at the point, so I was tired and hungry. I was not terribly focused on the game. Just so you know where I was.

The minis were decent for push pin style minis (starter box minis). They said in the announcement there would be more factions and add-ons; they were not sure about more boards. There were apparently a lot more board options in the box.

You get 4 activations per turn. You drew 5 action/upgrade cards and 3 victory cards. The mechanics were I activate a dude, I can play a card to buff it or weaken yours, and you can retaliate with a card. I can then move, attack something next to me, or charge something (move and attack). If you charge, then that mini is done. If you move or hit, you can keep using that dude. Some have more attacks, some have more health, some do more damage, and some move further. There were other rules that we did 't bother with in the demo, too. There were also victory cards. For example, after the round, if you had a dude stand on an objective, you got a coin. You could use that to buy an upgrade card like +1 defense or heal 3 wounds or something.

There were stat cards for your dudes. Normal mode is how you start. If you "power up" and go "super Scion" or whatever the nerd behind me kept saying, you flipped the card. The other side had more attacks or sounds or some other benefits. I was unclear on that mechanic. Expansions could have more factions, cards, boards, and other stuff.

All in all, it looked like a brutal game. The guys next to us killed at least 2 of each other's dudes. Only 1 of my guys died in the round.


Also, guess who my instructor was!






Kronk, don't take this the wrong way, as I generally enjoy your posts and we always seem to be on the same wavelength, but if you have actual NEWS and RUMOURS, take it to the appropriate thread in 40K rules discussion forum.

This thread is for debating how changes to morale mechanics have already ruined 8th edition 40K. And Normandy and stuff.

I'm pretty upset that you tried to derail this thread, tbh. Shame, sir. Shame.

It's not irrational to have a reaction to a complete re-design of a game youve put considerable time, money, and effort in to. If you honestly expect rules reveals to not be followed by discussion and historical/real life comparisons and analysis, you need to think again.


Sure, but there ample and designated spaces elsewhere for such a discussion. If I'm only interested in news and rumours, and I come to a news and rumors thread that seems like 3/4ths of it is "debating" a throwaway sentence about 1 change to the rules, its a pain in the ass to find bespoke news and rumors.

Not blaming you or trying to single you out, homeboy. I, and I'm sure a few others of us just want discussions to happen where they belong, is all. Probably a losing endeavour on my part, as there is a mod actively posting about how his 40K is ruined by AoS rules.

Fair enough then.

"You see, Necrons have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shut down"
- 25 Star Imperial Guard General Zapp Brannigan 
   
Made in kr
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Thud wrote:
No, no, no. Don't you see? Only these specific things will change, everything else will stay -exactly- the same. So, Wraithknights and other MCs/GMCs are basically useless.


You must have strong arms after spending all that time moving big bags of straw everywhere.


Well, I have actually been working out lately.

Thanks for noticing, and have a super day.

"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. 
   
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Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






I reckon it's Mortatrion's scythe too.....but I'm not entirely convinced it's the one from the teeny blurred photos.

The spike on the back of it seems different, and possibly not present on the blurred pic. But being blurred, hard to say for sure - and it doesn't mean the blurred pic isn't a Work in Progress snap.

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AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


Another turn on the merry-go-round!
   
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'Murica! (again)

 Thargrim wrote:
 VeteranNoob wrote:
Shadespire now too, also a Facebook page https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/shadespire-unveiled/ there's more than just video here


Out later this year...hopefully not too far off, they said the same thing about WHQ Shadows Over Hammerhal and it didn't take too long for that to come out. Exciting thing is they hint at small sets of unique push fit models for the game for other factions as well. "including some for factions that have not received any new miniatures since we first ventured into the Age of Sigmar". This is exciting, how about some Seraphon/Skaven/Undead? And it doesn't seem like this game will take too long to play. I loved Blood Bowl, but sometimes I would play a single half instead of a full game because it can take a while so maybe this game will hit the spot.

Pretty sure I'm getting a preview end of the weekend but maybe not. I'll share whatever I'm allowed to on any of these wide ranges of products when I return Sunday night. Off to Adepticon now. No way to keep up with forums. Literally phone buzzed nonstop since 10pm last night CST I turn that ringer off for sleep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Warhammer TV trolling us back with 40K design video...love it. Great way to handle the bullshittery that is Yeh Inturwebzzz

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/23 13:15:56


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Vorian wrote:

Then why waste your time preemptively complaining about stuff you've imagined?


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'Murica! (again)

finally: can't wait to get some Kharadron Overlords and other new models in my hand (doubtful to keep) this weekend. Keep watching, those of you not able to come, twitter and Warhammer-community or Warhammer TV, or other properries Facebook pages I suggest as best direct source. DON'T necessarily take the run-away uncited nonsense (you'll know the difference) to heart. Check for yourselves. Enjoy the weekend evereyone!

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SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


I guess I have the intellect of a pebble then because I find no lack of depth.

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SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


It's comments like this that make me hope that 30k takes the rules as well. I get a game I like with rules I like, and you get what you so deserve.
   
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UK

Thebiggesthat wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


It's comments like this that make me hope that 30k takes the rules as well. I get a game I like with rules I like, and you get what you so deserve.


I can't imagine a situation where they allow FW to keep the old rules. It would be a massive commercial conflict and would likely be seen as a threat to sales of 8th edition.

If 40k is changing, 30k probably will be too. They mentioned three ways to play, so I expect a bit of leeway for detail there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/23 13:25:26


 
   
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Cayhn wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


I guess I have the intellect of a pebble then because I find no lack of depth.

No offense, but literally every game of Sigmar I've seen has devolved to a big blobbed melee in the middle of the board.

"You see, Necrons have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shut down"
- 25 Star Imperial Guard General Zapp Brannigan 
   
Made in se
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 NpSkully wrote:
Cayhn wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


I guess I have the intellect of a pebble then because I find no lack of depth.

No offense, but literally every game of Sigmar I've seen has devolved to a big blobbed melee in the middle of the board.


Strange, since objectives rarely are located only in the center.

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Richmond, VA

Age of the Emperor oh tra-la-la!

The New GW is brilliant and dynamic... they understand 40k really, really sucks and needs a total revamp.

They're also business-savvy...

1. 40k is about to get a giant influx of it's old-guard players who left after 4th/5th edition. All the old grognards like myself who started with RT and 2nd are about to invest our late-30's/early-40's income into GW again! I've spent more money on Age of Sigmar in the last 18 months that I had on GW product since 2005, and GW will get a few thousand dollars from me when Age of the Emperor/40k 8th drops.

2. none of the current 40k players will do much other than complain to the internet, but will dutifully buy the next edition just like they did when 7th came out a few minutes after 6th did.

I'm so, so happy to see GW return to the GW I fell in love with in the mid 90's.

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 NpSkully wrote:
Cayhn wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


I guess I have the intellect of a pebble then because I find no lack of depth.

No offense, but literally every game of Sigmar I've seen has devolved to a big blobbed melee in the middle of the board.


This only happens if you play without objectives. The general handbook scenarios are excellent at forcing you to make tough decisions about splitting your force and in different ways too. The exception is take and hold which (like the 40k equivalent mission) is uninteresting.

Plus, the ranged nature of 40k means this is inherently less of an issue.
   
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 NpSkully wrote:
Cayhn wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


I guess I have the intellect of a pebble then because I find no lack of depth.

No offense, but literally every game of Sigmar I've seen has devolved to a big blobbed melee in the middle of the board.


I have never seen this. For a start, objectives don't force this, in fact, quite the opposite.
   
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New Orleans, LA

 nels1031 wrote:
Spoiler:
 kronk wrote:
So I played 1 round/turn of shadowspire after the event last night. I worked all day, drove through Heavy traffic to get my buddy from O'Hare,, and had not eaten for 10 hours at the point, so I was tired and hungry. I was not terribly focused on the game. Just so you know where I was.

The minis were decent for push pin style minis (starter box minis). They said in the announcement there would be more factions and add-ons; they were not sure about more boards. There were apparently a lot more board options in the box.

You get 4 activations per turn. You drew 5 action/upgrade cards and 3 victory cards. The mechanics were I activate a dude, I can play a card to buff it or weaken yours, and you can retaliate with a card. I can then move, attack something next to me, or charge something (move and attack). If you charge, then that mini is done. If you move or hit, you can keep using that dude. Some have more attacks, some have more health, some do more damage, and some move further. There were other rules that we did 't bother with in the demo, too. There were also victory cards. For example, after the round, if you had a dude stand on an objective, you got a coin. You could use that to buy an upgrade card like +1 defense or heal 3 wounds or something.

There were stat cards for your dudes. Normal mode is how you start. If you "power up" and go "super Scion" or whatever the nerd behind me kept saying, you flipped the card. The other side had more attacks or sounds or some other benefits. I was unclear on that mechanic. Expansions could have more factions, cards, boards, and other stuff.

All in all, it looked like a brutal game. The guys next to us killed at least 2 of each other's dudes. Only 1 of my guys died in the round.


Also, guess who my instructor was!






Kronk, don't take this the wrong way, as I generally enjoy your posts and we always seem to be on the same wavelength, but if you have actual NEWS and RUMOURS, take it to the appropriate thread in 40K rules discussion forum.

This thread is for debating how changes to morale mechanics have already ruined 8th edition 40K. And Normandy and stuff.

I'm pretty upset that you tried to derail this thread, tbh. Shame, sir. Shame.




My initial reaction would have gotten me banned.


Thank you for the laugh this morning!

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 judgedoug wrote:
Age of the Emperor oh tra-la-la!

The New GW is brilliant and dynamic... they understand 40k really, really sucks and needs a total revamp.

They're also business-savvy...

1. 40k is about to get a giant influx of it's old-guard players who left after 4th/5th edition. All the old grognards like myself who started with RT and 2nd are about to invest our late-30's/early-40's income into GW again! I've spent more money on Age of Sigmar in the last 18 months that I had on GW product since 2005, and GW will get a few thousand dollars from me when Age of the Emperor/40k 8th drops.

2. none of the current 40k players will do much other than complain to the internet, but will dutifully buy the next edition just like they did when 7th came out a few minutes after 6th did.

I'm so, so happy to see GW return to the GW I fell in love with in the mid 90's.


Amen
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 NpSkully wrote:
Cayhn wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
AoS has all the depth of a puddle, when the AoSing hits 40k I just hope 30K remains a proper wargame as opposed to a dice rolling simulator.


I guess I have the intellect of a pebble then because I find no lack of depth.

No offense, but literally every game of Sigmar I've seen has devolved to a big blobbed melee in the middle of the board.

I have watched dozens of aos games since warhammer live started. I think I have only seen this happen once or twice. For those who are worried about the influence of aos, watch a game or two on warhammer live this week. It may change your opinion.
   
 
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