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Manchu wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
but just because you want it, doesn't mean all customers do

You posted this without realizing it applies exactly as much to your point ...

I'm well aware of it,

But I am also well aware how the format is produced isn't up to me and that I have no say in the production process =D

Yes you do, that's what money is for.

GodDamUser wrote:

but just because you want it, doesn't mean all customers do.

And that's the line that companies need to find when deciding what to sell and how to sell it.

Regardless of how many customers do or do not sell something, the responsibility for the decision whether or not to sell it lies with the company, not with the customers.

They are moving forward with the newer technology that is regularly available, which also saves them costs.

That doesn't make it better. Or what their customers want.

The I don't want to move onto digital argument is comparable to someone complaining that the latest games wont run on their outdated console

It really, really isn't.

There are any number of reasons for not wanting to move to digital that have nothing to do with simply not wanting to update to the newest technology. The main one being that while digital formats are fine for casual reading, they're really rubbish for actual gaming, where you often want to be able to just pick up the book and flick to the relevant page, something that is slow and painful on many digital devices.

It's also, as Manchu mentioned, not as tactile, which is important to some of us. After all, we can move to the 'new' technology and use our digital devices to simulate dice rolls as well... but most of us prefer to grab a handful of actual dice and throw them around.

For that matter, miniature wargaming itself is ultimately the 'old' technology. By your logic, we should all have traded in our miniatures for Dawn Of War.


'New' doesn't automatically mean 'better' ... or 'what gamers actually want'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GodDamUser wrote:

Manchu wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
but just because you want it, doesn't mean all customers do

You posted this without realizing it applies exactly as much to your point ...

I'm well aware of it,

But I am also well aware how the format is produced isn't up to me and that I have no say in the production process =D

So it's only the customers' 'fault' if they want something different to what you want...?

 insaniak wrote:
So it's only the customers' 'fault' if they want something different to what you want...?

Well see the thing is people are still gonna buy it anyway. They are still gonna make money

Some people prefer digital over paper, I'm good either way.

But the main thing is that Digital is a lot cheaper to produce

And GW being a company is out to make money, So this is a great cost saving measure, if they only produce from digital from now on then your options is to buy it or move on to other things. But people are constantly leaving or just starting with this kind of game market, So a few people leaving the game because they like paper will not make a great difference to them when new people start with the system and are perfectly fine with digital.

Plus with the cost saved going digital, losing a few customers will not hurt them in the slightest.


TL : DR GW like any other company doesn't care what you think or like, and will do what will make them the most money

GodDamUser wrote:


TL : DR GW like any other company doesn't care what you think or like, and will do what will make them the most money

Sure. And so the 'fault' for whether or not they sell what people want lies entirely with them.

So what exactly were you arguing?

Manchu wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really suspect they are going to reprint the book separately as a $50 USD product.

Throw in all the existing lists and some new ones, new cover art, and charge 25 USD. They would have a General's Handbook level of success and move a ton of plastic infantry.

I don't know how realistic that is, but then again, I haven't really seen how thick the book is. If It is about the thickness of Angels of Death, I would totally see what you are describing as a possibility. Perhaps have all the tokens and stuff shrink-wrapped with the book inside a slip cover with new art, but keep the book the same to save on costs.

 insaniak wrote:
Sure. And so the 'fault' for whether or not they sell what people want lies entirely with them.

So what exactly were you arguing?

partly projecting tbh..

Just annoyed at people's sense of entitlement, that because they don't like a format, it shouldn't be that way. In this case it is their game and they can package it how they like

Also been a part of an argument for the past hour with an annoying bird who thinks they should shut down all abattoirs, because she is a Vegan and thinks meat is cruel... And apparently her and her friends feelings are more important then the economy when that argument as to why it cannot just be shut down was presented

Manchu wrote:
Ehhhhh ... telling folks to print out ebooks is not really a customer-friendly response to demand for hard copies. I dont wany ebooks and I simply don't play rule sets only available in digital format.

Same, although I do *expect* a "FREE" PDF of any ruleset I purchase. For me, larger print sizes and 600+ dpi beats the heck out of what any phone or tablet can do.

GodDamUser wrote:

Just annoyed at people's sense of entitlement, that because they don't like a format, it shouldn't be that way. In this case it is their game and they can package it how they like

I think you've misunderstood. Nobody has a problem with GW releasing rules in digital format... just with the idea of them only releasing rules in digital format.

If someone has no interest in purchasing digital rules, wanting a different format isn't 'entitlement'... it's simply personal preference.

 insaniak wrote:

If someone has no interest in purchasing digital rules, wanting a different format isn't 'entitlement'... it's simply personal preference.

But getting overly annoyed at if they decided to go digital only is 'entitlement' as you feel entitled that because you want a certain format, the company should do it that way.

GodDamUser wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

If someone has no interest in purchasing digital rules, wanting a different format isn't 'entitlement'... it's simply personal preference.

But getting overly annoyed at if they decided to go digital only is 'entitlement' as you feel entitled that because you want a certain format, the company should do it that way.

I wouldn't call saying, "Hey, I'd pay for a paperback book but have no interest in a ebook format" entitlement so much as useful feedback on the companies part. If a large part of your customer base wants a physical version, and you don't offer it, that is kind of a mistake on the part of the company.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

I wouldn't call saying, "Hey, I'd pay for a paperback book but have no interest in a ebook format" entitlement so much as useful feedback on the companies part. If a large part of your customer base wants a physical version, and you don't offer it, that is kind of a mistake on the part of the company.

But at the same time, If that's the only way for the customer to get the rules, they are still likely to get it....

Or the number of people that don't buy it because of the format causes less of a profit loss than the cost saving of going digital only. then the Company still wins out.

It is also hard to really judge what the majority really want, because the vocal few =/= majority

And while people will walk away because they are totally against digital, there will be people that join in because of the greater digital presence, which will offset everything.. and generally a newer player will bring in more money than an existing one

GodDamUser wrote:

But at the same time, If that's the only way for the customer to get the rules, they are still likely to get it....

That's going to come down to the individual, obviously. I don't buy digital rules, so wouldn't even if it was the only option.

I also stopped buying new codexes when GW switched to hideously-expensive hardcover. I went from buying every single book GW release (dating back to 2nd edition) to buying a handful of codexes as I can find them 2nd hand at a price comparable to 5th edition's codex releases.


Restricting formats is a deal-breaker for some of us.

 insaniak wrote:
Restricting formats is a deal-breaker for some of us.

Yes but while it may be a deal breaker for some, the likely cost savings from moving away for physical prints, would more than likely be a greater cost saver for the Company as a whole, and would be a smart move for them.

Myself I like the hardcovers I think they are nice, But I don't go out and buy everyone.. Just the one for my main force at the time. And while I own the hard cover, I also have scanned the relevant rules information into a pdf I keep on my phone, for ease of use

Manchu wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really suspect they are going to reprint the book separately as a $50 USD product.

Throw in all the existing lists and some new ones, new cover art, and charge 25 USD. They would have a General's Handbook level of success and move a ton of plastic infantry.

Yep, I hope they consider this..I very much prefer this ruleset compared to 40k.

Also, yet another surprise GW releases a boxed game and underestimates how many people would buy it...wow.

 insaniak wrote:
I think you've misunderstood. Nobody has a problem with GW releasing rules in digital format... just with the idea of them only releasing rules in digital format.

That's one of the main reasons I wanted to buy this actual box - the physical rules. I want an easy to access rulebook. The fact that most of the forces you can play are PDF only annoys me. Printing them is no option because it would waste so much ink.

Anyone know how tall the new terrain is??

The new supports look like about 4" and the old necromunda bulk heads were 3"
That worries me about matching up walkways..

 insaniak wrote:

For that matter, miniature wargaming itself is ultimately the 'old' technology. By your logic, we should all have traded in our miniatures for Dawn Of War.

We totally should! Space marines mounting World of Warcraft Wolfs. Whats not to love?





(Now being serious, this simulator its ultra cool)

 insaniak wrote:

For that matter, miniature wargaming itself is ultimately the 'old' technology. By your logic, we should all have traded in our miniatures for Dawn Of War.

Well Games Workshop still prides itself on being a miniatures company. So they will stay

The rules are just a accessory to the models

Everyone saying physical books are obsolete and I'm thinking of how much I spent at Barnes & Noble last week....

For something touted as the tech of the future, its ironic that for me, the future is precisely why I want a physical book.

I have the original necromunda boxed game, with the books that came in it. I also have the Underhive book that was the update/compendium rulebook thing that they put out before giving up on the game.

They are 20 and 25 years old, I can read them any time, no formatting issues, no problem seeing the images and reading the text.

Hands up if you think in 25 years you will easily be able to access you epub files? The last few I have from GW don't display well today, let alone in a quarter of a century when the file format is beyond obsolete and you are resorting to some emulator for decades old tech to view it on whatever kind of gadget we ave then. (Remember, tablets have only existed for less than a decade so far).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People are really wondering if this game should be a tournament game?

It's a campaign game, not a tournament game.

Why not?

Blood Bowl has progression style tournaments, it wouldnt be too hard to come up with a framework for tourney play.

I think the notion that it is a tournament game comes from the fact that stores can opt to receive a competitive pack to go with their shipment of boxed games, which allows them to run a tournament of sorts.

 Genoside07 wrote:
Anyone know how tall the new terrain is??

The new supports look like about 4" and the old necromunda bulk heads were 3"
That worries me about matching up walkways..

The white dwarf battle report mentioned a figure fell 5" from one platform to the one below it. So, definitely not going to match up your walkways with the Necromunda bulkheads.

I have the game, i'm building scenery and surprise plateform no need glue, we can unbuild easyli the scenery.

An SWA/Necromunda tournament. Allow 3hour+ rounds as every cover save is disputed to the Nth degree.

I like this ruleset but it would be horrendous in a comparative and dare I say prize environment.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This is still a colossal feth up, and the fact that I can walk into a GW store and have a decent chance of not being able to buy a game they hyped to all hell and back on the day it comes out is just shocking.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Please people, grow some perspective.

The irony is strong with this one, as usual.

 notprop wrote:
An SWA/Necromunda tournament. Allow 3hour+ rounds as every cover save is disputed to the Nth degree.

I like this ruleset but it would be horrendous in a comparative and dare I say prize environment.

If I remember that batrep I watched there are no cover saves.

 Silentz wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This is still a colossal feth up, and the fact that I can walk into a GW store and have a decent chance of not being able to buy a game they hyped to all hell and back on the day it comes out is just shocking.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Please people, grow some perspective.

The irony is strong with this one, as usual.

Makes ya wonder...

 Silentz wrote:
The irony is strong with this one, as usual.

Everything I said is factual. If you have something to dispute it by all means go ahead. Also, lean the meaning of irony.

 CATACHANTV wrote:
I have the game, i'm building scenery and surprise plateform no need glue, we can unbuild easyli the scenery.

Thanks for the pic. Nice to see how it works. Kinda worried that it'll break eventually, but it's a fantastic method for dry-fitting combos and finding what you like (unlike CoD buildings, where I have pages of hand-dram diagrams and Excel-spreadsheets counting tile usage and other nonsense).