Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/04/05 21:42:26
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Manchu wrote: That sounds awful BrookM - my very limited experience dealing indirectly with GW distro through a LGS was 100% satisfactory. Store manager explained that GW rep was on the ball. At that point, it was one of the few things we could say nice about GW.
There's the difference between have a GW trade account, and getting GW stuff through a distributor. Seems like that store is the latter.
I do believe that my store did change over to a distributor from a GW account, though I could be mistaken. They have tried to order certain numbers of things from GW accounts before only to be told they were getting less than they asked for (I recall them asking for three sets of Skaven dice after they ordered 25 copies of Blood Bowl and being told okay- to be called back in the middle of the week and being told they were only getting one- but at least they notified them). I think a lot of it depends on how good your individual rep is.
I will say however, the few times I have had to contact GW customer service, they have been astonishing, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are some might fine reps out there.
2017/04/05 21:45:45
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
I do agree with Vorian quite a bit on this one. GW has a track record of producing games that aren't balanced, but are very fun none the less.
I always approach GW games with idea that I will get together with some buddies, have a few beers, and roll some dice. I think there are a lot of games out there that are much better suited to competitive play.
2017/04/05 21:56:18
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
RexHavoc wrote: It says the exact same thing it did Saturday
Incorrect. On Saturday, the message was that they would sell a digital version. Today's message is that the rules will be available again - format undisclosed. Furthermore, there was no mention on Saturday of making more lists available.
LOL do you think the employees were just sitting around villainously twirling their moustaches? First, they have their regular work to do beyond damage control for the weekend feeding frenzy. Second, it's not just a matter of snapping one's fingers and the perfect solution - whatever that may be - magically appears. Third, after reaching a decision on how to try to solve this they still need to see if that is logistically feasible. A response within three workdays, vague though it may be, is a huge step in the right direction for a company that only shortly before barely acknowledged the existence of the humans buying their products.
Not incorrect at all. So they went from saying 'digital download' to saying in 'some format'. That's the same thing. If they no longer meant a digital download they would have said. Sure, if you over analyse and read between the lines, it MIGHT mean they are looking at a reprint. But for all intents and purposes, the are just saying the rules will be available, which is exactly the message they gave out on Saturday. I'm not interested in reading between lines from a company that is trying to sell me something, I'm going to take what they SAY at face value. Its not my job to decode an advert.
They mentioned during the live stream that, over the coming months, white dwarf would be printing stuff to tie in with this release including new rules and lists. So the new lists were not included in Saturdays message. It still doesn't make it new information, they are just repeating old news to a wider audience, a clever way to pad out what would have been otherwise an incredible short article.
The point about it being the middle the week is more this: Have you actually read today's announcement. Its dreadful. I'm not expecting someone with a masters degree in language to be working their community site, but a little proof reading never hurt anyone.
"Don’t worry though – we we have some good news for you."
"We will be making the rules for this game are more widely available, very soon."
My point is, I wasn't expecting some grand announcement telling us we were all going to be receive a reprint personally delivered to our door by Duncan, but it took them 3 working days to write that and post it up? It is almost cut and paste from their facebook replies on Saturday, and it says nothing of interest, and certainly nothing of any real substance, that we haven't already seen before. It would have taken someone 5 minutes on a monday morning to post something to say, "sorry guys, we are working on a solution, we have no clue how we are going to fix, but we will!"
But waiting till Wednesday evening is joke. I understand there is other things for them to work on, but no other business works like this. Any other business would have that rushed, cut & paste message up monday morning, and they might not have an answer anytime soon, but they wouldn't wait three working days to post what amounts to nothing more than an advertisement for the terrain coming next week.
Sure, I agree its a step in the right direction from how they were several years ago. But its still not good enough for them to escape criticism, when they screw up. Our money shouldn't just fall into their tills, they need to earn it.
Maybe step back and take a breather. They have to have actually finished the action for it to be declared a screw up. You can choose to not take it on good faith that they had no idea this would be sold short. That's your decision. You can even decide that they are intentionally trying to piss of potential customers.. that's a strange decision but it's yours to make. What you can't decide is that this matter is concluded and final judgement is ready to be rendered. Until that time, maybe consider a hobby (snicker).. There's a lot of horrible stuff going on right now for people of just about any persuasion to be bent out of shape over.. GW trying to release a game and hitting some (slightly amusing) stumbling blocks are probably the most petty things a person could choose to be upset over in this day and age.
Someone isn't allowed to criticize an obvious mistake by GW in a thread about a GW game on a gaming message board because bad things happen in the world? That is ridiculous. Since we are deciding what other people can and can't do, I declare that you aren't allowed to be so ridiculous.
lol, I didn't say anyone wasn't allowed to do anything. I simply was suggesting that the poster relax and take a breath. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big a deal. My other point was, this is still in motion but people are making finalistic judgements on how it's been handled.. WHILE IT'S STILL BEING HANDLED.. so.. yeah.. twist my words a bit if it helps you and yours but my point was to try and cut some of that unnecessary tension. I'm not really sure what yours was.. other than to criticize me for criticizing someone for criticizing a product that isn't even out yet.. sooo.. have a nice day!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kodos wrote: do you guys think this game can be the next big tournament game?
I mean the rules are a lot better than the current 40k, games are smaller and faster and a 2 day campaign is possible.
also no big teams which means it is easier to adept to local meta (regarding the used terrain etc) and it gives much more possibility for modelling/convert stuff
at least I don't see a reason to stick with 40k except that there are no Titans available
boom?
this pdf is available since the box get into pre-order and the new box collections were put on the HP, and it is missing the teams from the box
so you still need the box game if you want to play Orks for now
I dunno about tourney game (seems like it would quickly turn into Rock Paper Scissors) but as a league game it could be great fun.. IF (big IF) your group is open to do a ranked ladder league of any sort, that could be a way to go for prize support and buy in. For one-off matches.. I think it would just end up with whatever the most disgusting unit is being fielded by everyone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/05 22:04:04
Sabotage! wrote: I think there are a lot of games out there that are much better suited to competitive play.
there are, but the community is fixed on the idea to use GW rules only to play tournaments (otherwise Warpath FireFight would have an easy going to replace 40k in tournaments)
Vorian wrote: Necromunda was not balanced. It was (is) worth playing.
If you're only interested in tournament games then yeah, It's not for you.
compared to the mess 40k is now, Necromunda was well balanced
at least I never felt that I was playing against the game instead of playing against my opponent
and I am not searching for a specific tournament game, but being interested if there is a chance that 40k get replaced by something better (to make events being fun again)
I dunno about tourney game (seems like it would quickly turn into Rock Paper Scissors) but as a league game it could be great fun.. IF (big IF) your group is open to do a ranked ladder league of any sort, that could be a way to go for prize support and buy in. For one-off matches.. I think it would just end up with whatever the most disgusting unit is being fielded by everyone.
one-off matches are out of question anyway
but a ranked ladder league sounds very good
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/05 22:08:17
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2017/04/05 22:15:48
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Sabotage! wrote: I think there are a lot of games out there that are much better suited to competitive play.
there are, but the community is fixed on the idea to use GW rules only to play tournaments (otherwise Warpath FireFight would have an easy going to replace 40k in tournaments)
Vorian wrote: Necromunda was not balanced. It was (is) worth playing.
If you're only interested in tournament games then yeah, It's not for you.
compared to the mess 40k is now, Necromunda was well balanced
at least I never felt that I was playing against the game instead of playing against my opponent
Ouch, I'm sorry to hear your community is like that. I don't really play in tournaments (just a few casual leagues), but it seems there are a lot of other more competitive games around here that have pretty big followings and regularly host tournaments.
And your point is well taken about Necromunda being balanced compared to what 40k is now. I honestly can't even finish a game of 40k it is such a mess.
2017/04/05 22:28:00
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Game like this one is one for a ladder campaign, or to help a new player build on, learnt o play a game and feed them the candy, so they go get themselves a add on unit, a vehicle, and extablish their characters, and personalize their experience as they make their own way in the 40K world.
I have not seen mentioned, yet would be to model up the Armageddon IG regiment teams for the -
13th Penal Legion, Schaeffer's Last Chancers.
Ash Waste Militia.
Steel Legions
Ork Hunters
Gaunt's Tanith First and Only
Tunnel Rats
Catachan's
Necromunda regiments
or the
Savlar Chem dogs.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2017/04/05 23:02:00
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Maybe step back and take a breather. They have to have actually finished the action for it to be declared a screw up. You can choose to not take it on good faith that they had no idea this would be sold short. That's your decision. You can even decide that they are intentionally trying to piss of potential customers.. that's a strange decision but it's yours to make. What you can't decide is that this matter is concluded and final judgement is ready to be rendered. Until that time, maybe consider a hobby (snicker).. There's a lot of horrible stuff going on right now for people of just about any persuasion to be bent out of shape over.. GW trying to release a game and hitting some (slightly amusing) stumbling blocks are probably the most petty things a person could choose to be upset over in this day and age.
I think I'm grand, thank you lol
As far as I'm concerned they have finished their action- they offered a brand new game, hyped it up, told us all it was going to be great, and said we could preorder it. I log in on saturday morning, and by the time I've logged in, added one to the cart and got to the pay screen it had sold out in my territory. We are talking about a couple of minutes- I'd be less annoyed if it had sold out by the evening, or the next day, or hell, even by lunchtime. There was no talk about it being a one time game during all the promotion or live streams. Infact it was billed as a good started for 40k.
I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose, but they could have handled the issue a lot, lot better or have been up front about the limited number in the first place.
The matter is concluded. The posted a response to me on facebook on saturday that they would release digital rules- I have no use for a digital rule set, and do not like digital rules, so with no reprint of the box set, I have no real use or reason for the buying the rest of the game in small bits, for a much higher cost. Sure, they might pull something out of the hat at a later date, but for now, with the posts we have gotten from them, it really doesn't sound like they will able to provide me with either the item they offered, for a price that I will want to pay. My choice maybe, but there are others that will feel forced in to buying what every they do put out to be able to keep up with their group/friends/store. I wanted to use the game as an excuse to actually play in store/with real people, but then, I can continue to play GW older skirmish rule sets, at home, and for free. Even though this is done for me, I'm still allowed to be miffed that I cant get the game I wanted to get.
This hobby is my hobby (duh! ) and I think its more than reasonable to be able to have a moan when GW cant deliver on what they were trying to sell me, especially as I was hooked on the idea of finally being able to have a skirmished 40k game, supported by stores.
There is always horrible stuff going in the world. But that has nothing to do with coming to a games forum and talking about a game. Its a ridiculous comparison. If we were only meant to be worrying and talking about the 'horrible stuff' then no one, including yourself, should be posting in this thread.
Maybe step back and take a breather. They have to have actually finished the action for it to be declared a screw up. You can choose to not take it on good faith that they had no idea this would be sold short. That's your decision. You can even decide that they are intentionally trying to piss of potential customers.. that's a strange decision but it's yours to make. What you can't decide is that this matter is concluded and final judgement is ready to be rendered. Until that time, maybe consider a hobby (snicker).. There's a lot of horrible stuff going on right now for people of just about any persuasion to be bent out of shape over.. GW trying to release a game and hitting some (slightly amusing) stumbling blocks are probably the most petty things a person could choose to be upset over in this day and age.
I think I'm grand, thank you lol
As far as I'm concerned they have finished their action- they offered a brand new game, hyped it up, told us all it was going to be great, and said we could preorder it. I log in on saturday morning, and by the time I've logged in, added one to the cart and got to the pay screen it had sold out in my territory. We are talking about a couple of minutes- I'd be less annoyed if it had sold out by the evening, or the next day, or hell, even by lunchtime. There was no talk about it being a one time game during all the promotion or live streams. Infact it was billed as a good started for 40k.
I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose, but they could have handled the issue a lot, lot better or have been up front about the limited number in the first place.
The matter is concluded. The posted a response to me on facebook on saturday that they would release digital rules- I have no use for a digital rule set, and do not like digital rules, so with no reprint of the box set, I have no real use or reason for the buying the rest of the game in small bits, for a much higher cost. Sure, they might pull something out of the hat at a later date, but for now, with the posts we have gotten from them, it really doesn't sound like they will able to provide me with either the item they offered, for a price that I will want to pay. My choice maybe, but there are others that will feel forced in to buying what every they do put out to be able to keep up with their group/friends/store. I wanted to use the game as an excuse to actually play in store/with real people, but then, I can continue to play GW older skirmish rule sets, at home, and for free. Even though this is done for me, I'm still allowed to be miffed that I cant get the game I wanted to get.
This hobby is my hobby (duh! ) and I think its more than reasonable to be able to have a moan when GW cant deliver on what they were trying to sell me, especially as I was hooked on the idea of finally being able to have a skirmished 40k game, supported by stores.
There is always horrible stuff going in the world. But that has nothing to do with coming to a games forum and talking about a game. Its a ridiculous comparison. If we were only meant to be worrying and talking about the 'horrible stuff' then no one, including yourself, should be posting in this thread.
See, I don't think it's done. GW expressed directly to me through a CS rep (I posted the message) that they ARE listening to our feedback.. and these concerns are being passed to the appropriate people. You can and probably should do what I did and contact them directly and express your concerns. I share your opinion of e-books.. especially for gaming... and I told them as much. I am choosing to take their stance at face value and believe that if enough people let them know they would prefer to see a hard copy of the rules.. that we would get just that!
It sounds more like they mollified you with a friendly, but otherwise meaningless response.
"Your feedback is appreciated" is the oldest line in the book, if you choose to believe that they are taking your criticisms on board and that your voice actually has any power to influence the decisions GW makes, then more power too you, but I think you're being unrealistically optimistic about the outcome of this.
Best case scenario here is that we get a printed rulebook, although I don't expect it. I don't see them reprinting the entire core box, which is a shame because I really like the look of those red templates. I wouldn't hold my breath for rules expansions beyond a couple of issues of White Dwarf either.
Realistically all I'm expecting to see is an expensive, badly formatted and unprintable ebook.
2017/04/06 00:23:07
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Zethnar wrote: It sounds more like they mollified you with a friendly, but otherwise meaningless response.
"Your feedback is appreciated" is the oldest line in the book, if you choose to believe that they are taking your criticisms on board and that your voice actually has any power to influence the decisions GW makes, then more power too you, but I think you're being unrealistically optimistic about the outcome of this.
Best case scenario here is that we get a printed rulebook, although I don't expect it. I don't see them reprinting the entire core box, which is a shame because I really like the look of those red templates. I wouldn't hold my breath for rules expansions beyond a couple of issues of White Dwarf either.
Realistically all I'm expecting to see is an expensive, badly formatted and unprintable ebook.
I'm not sure if this is condescending or intended as some sort of passive aggressive insult based on willingness to believe that a company can change.. either way, if it is an ebook that just means I'll have to print it. If you lack the ability to print screen and recompile as a clean PDF, then I feel badly for you. I do agree that whichever avenue they go, it will likely be overpriced.
Here's a suggestion for Dakkites in general.. let's stop being so hostile and contrarian and pedantic.. please? We're a community. No we don't have to constantly be giving e-hugs and all of that.. but why don't we try being positive for once? Maybe not about GW.. but just in how we interact with one another. There's so much snark and "aha gotcha" BS going on in just about every thread here that it really gets old to look in anything associated with any of the larger companies. Just a suggestion... pretty sure it will immediately be criticized as telling people they're not allowed to do "x" "y" or "z" but whatever.. I gotta try.
If you lack the ability to print screen and recompile as a clean PDF, then I feel badly for you. I do agree that whichever avenue they go, it will likely be overpriced.
.
I've got to say some of GW's recent ebooks (the last Kill Team/ Horus Heresy ones for example) are very rough to do this with even as any reader I've tried to open them up with will either not let you focus in far enough to get anything beyond small text (think like 66% in Adobe), or cuts single pages to multiple pages (sometimes even bisecting sentences). I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's far more work than should be necessary to read a file you paid for in comfort.
That said, I do agree with your post in general, I think people are being way too hostile towards one another over a miniatures game and differing opinions on it/the company that made it/ playing miniatures games/etc.
2017/04/06 01:08:55
Subject: Re:Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
I haven't encountered any problems reading any of the more recent books in ePub format on my PC or my phone. Older PDF Sandy pumps for garbage but none of the new ones have been all that bad.
Huh, I've had the problem since they switched to epub3? (I think that's the file format) with all of my devices. All the guys I've played with had the same issues with the exception of the guys with Apple devices and a couple of the guys with their phones. I honestly didn't have any trouble before they switch formats. And all the files I have were bought from Black Library, so are legit copies.
2017/04/06 01:34:08
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Ehhhhh ... telling folks to print out ebooks is not really a customer-friendly response to demand for hard copies. I dont wany ebooks and I simply don't play rule sets only available in digital format. This strong bias against digital products doesn't make sense to everyone of course - nonetheless, it is a market reality. GW bumped up against it in a big way in response to their original statement addressing the website stock blowout, when they announced that they would make the rules available digitally - the decision to delete that message and replace it today with one that doesn't specify format is very telling.
And is it really any surprise that people who enjoy a hobby as tactile as miniatures gaming want physical rulebooks rather thans PDFs or epub or whatever???
MLaw wrote: I don't know if anyone else has written to GW but I did.. and here's the response I got.
Just out of curiosity, where did you send the email to? I would be willing to take the time to send them an email about my thoughts on the release of the new game, and hopes for a new Necromunda.
Oddly enough, the contact us link on the GW-store. It's at the bottom. The responded crazy fast too.
Thanks, just wanted to know if there was a specific place to contact. I will send them my own 2 cents too.
Avatar by Makkon
Successful Trades: 1
2017/04/06 01:50:43
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
GodDamUser wrote: So its GW's fault that they want to move forward with the times and technological advancement, but you don't?
Yes...?
If I try to sell a product that my customers don't want, or fail to sell one that they do, that's not my customers' fault. It's mine for not understanding my customers.
2017/04/06 01:59:47
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
MLaw wrote: I'm not sure if this is condescending or intended as some sort of passive aggressive insult based on willingness to believe that a company can change.. either way, if it is an ebook that just means I'll have to print it. If you lack the ability to print screen and recompile as a clean PDF, then I feel badly for you. I do agree that whichever avenue they go, it will likely be overpriced.
I didn't intend it to be insulting or condescending, you're welcome to be optimistic about GW's recent attitude shift. Personally, I don't think receiving vague, placating answers is any reason to be optimistic about change, the proof will be in whatever they deliver.
As for screenshotting an ebook, you might be happy spending $30 on a digital product you have to work on to even get an ugly print version of, but I am not. Especially not when I can go to drive-thru-rpg and purchase a plethora of wargaming or RPG pdf's for half the price that both look good on screen and are printer friendly. Unfortunately this part IS going to be a little condescending because to even suggest that screenshotting and piecing together a rule book just so you can get a paper version of it is an acceptable solution means you're probably roughly as out of touch with reality as GW is, which explains why you think that vague answers and marketing speak is solid proof that they've really turned around as a company.
2017/04/06 02:00:52
Subject: Re:Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Yeah, I never thought I'd say it, but some of you need to take a step back and breath....
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2017/04/06 02:06:45
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
GodDamUser wrote: So its GW's fault that they want to move forward with the times and technological advancement, but you don't?
Yes...?
If I try to sell a product that my customers don't want, or fail to sell one that they do, that's not my customers' fault. It's mine for not understanding my customers.
but just because you want it, doesn't mean all customers do.
They are moving forward with the newer technology that is regularly available, which also saves them costs.
The I don't want to move onto digital argument is comparable to someone complaining that the latest games wont run on their outdated console
2017/04/06 02:07:34
Subject: Re:Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really suspect they are going to reprint the book separately as a $50 USD product.
Throw in all the existing lists and some new ones, new cover art, and charge 25 USD. They would have a General's Handbook level of success and move a ton of plastic infantry.
GodDamUser wrote: So its GW's fault that they want to move forward with the times and technological advancement, but you don't?
Yes...?
If I try to sell a product that my customers don't want, or fail to sell one that they do, that's not my customers' fault. It's mine for not understanding my customers.
but just because you want it, doesn't mean all customers do.
They are moving forward with the newer technology that is regularly available, which also saves them costs.
The I don't want to move onto digital argument is comparable to someone complaining that the latest games wont run on their outdated console
That's... Not even close to the same argument, actually. Books and ebooks are completely different things with different experiences. For example, some people have issues with staring at screens all the time, and some just prefer having an actual, tactile experience. Digital copies also need some form of battery, which can be annoying to deal with at times, like spending the day at the game shop.
Personally I don't care, paperback or digital is fine to me so long as they put out the rules quickly, but to compare a hard copy book to a PDF or similar is more akin to comparing tabletop games to video games, rather than an older and a newer console.
2017/04/06 02:17:22
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
GodDamUser wrote: but just because you want it, doesn't mean all customers do
You posted this without realizing it applies exactly as much to your point ...
There actually isn't an inevitable march away from print, as forecasted a decade ago. Print has been outpacing digital in popular formats. Again, it is no surprise that a isgnificant number of miniatures gamers prefer hard copy rulebooks. The Shadow War rulebook is currently going for 100 USD on ebay by the way, despite a digital version being all but certain.
Demand exists. Not hypothetically. Not abstractly. And GW has pretty clearly taken note. I don't know if they can deliver profitably (that is, within the time frame in which this demand is most likely to remain strong) - we'll have to see.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
) and I think its more than reasonable to be able to have a moan when 
Epic 40k + INQ6 Project Log 
INQ28/Necromunda/Inquisimunda Log 
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 
