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 kodos wrote:

I mean Mechs are not produced by factions but companies that sell to everyone

It's a bit more complicated than that, actually. Factions do produce their own mechs, but the ubiquitous ones were created for the Star League Defense Force. The collapse of the Star League, along with the 5 houses gobbling up as much of the Terran Hegemony and SLDF regiments as they could, lead to the companies being in different nations and then providing the different variants based on national preferences and parts manufacturing (like the Marauder 3M).

The rest of the spread comes from the salvage culture that came out of the 3rd Succession Wars and Mercs crossing state lines.

 kodos wrote:

and this turned up to 11 for space craft as everyone just grabs what he can find, modify it for their need and be done

For Warships, that's pretty much only applies to the Clans and ComStar/Word of Blake. The Houses started their own designs once they started learning how to do it again.

New dropship designs are also being manufactured to fit new standards, especially the Assault Dropships and Pocket Warships, and when they are designed for combat, they tend to be on a national basis.

However, aesthetic-wise, they aren't nearly as cohesive all around. Maybe its because that in Battletech, it's only humanity all sharing a similar tech-base, meanwhile Star Wars, Star Trek, and 40K all have different races with very different approaches (and effectiveness) to things like propulsion and weaponry.

Well in regards to Star Wars its less about different races, etc. and more just different corporate entities having different design philosophies and tech specializations, etc. Incom Corporation, Sienar Fleet Systems, Kuat Drive Yards, Corellian Engineering Corporation, etc., all have clear design language.

If it has an X-Wing style cockpit, its made by Incom. If it has a pod-shaped cockpit with a circular multi-panel window and large solar-cell wings, its a Sienar design, if its triangular in shape its from Kuat Drive Yards, etc. They are all principally human or near-human lead, so its not really a "racial" thing.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well in regards to Star Wars its less about different races, etc. and more just different corporate entities having different design philosophies and tech specializations, etc. Incom Corporation, Sienar Fleet Systems, Kuat Drive Yards, Corellian Engineering Corporation, etc., all have clear design language.

If it has an X-Wing style cockpit, its made by Incom. If it has a pod-shaped cockpit with a circular multi-panel window and large solar-cell wings, its a Sienar design, if its triangular in shape its from Kuat Drive Yards, etc. They are all principally human or near-human lead, so its not really a "racial" thing.

You forgot the Geonosians, Mon Calamari and the Verpine. The former had those pods in Attack of the Clones. The Mon Cals the capital ships in RotJ, and the Verpine made the V-19 Torrents and helped design and build the B-Wing with the Mon Cals.

I mean theres like another dozen corporations I could refer to beyond even those, I didn't forget them so much as I didn't feel the need to go into that much detail - I think the 4 I chose made my point clear enough.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I mean theres like another dozen corporations I could refer to beyond even those, I didn't forget them so much as I didn't feel the need to go into that much detail - I think the 4 I chose made my point clear enough.

Except you excluded the non-human lines as if they didn't matter when I was pointing out the lack of it in Battletech.

One of the reasons our designers create very unique design schemes for different races is to set them apart and LOOK like alien craft. Battletech is under no such constraints, and all share the same technology (roughly), so there is no impetus to create such defining designs.

Which is irrelevant, because I was demonstrating 4 explicitly human corporations jn Star Wars that all have very strong and very clear and recognizable design languages with their own specific technological masteries. By your rationale, this shouldn't exist, because they are all human.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Which is irrelevant, because I was demonstrating 4 explicitly human corporations jn Star Wars that all have very strong and very clear and recognizable design languages with their own specific technological masteries. By your rationale, this shouldn't exist, because they are all human.

Except there ARE other races whose influences are there to be compared to. Battletech doesn't need to have any such distinction.

But in the real world we have different aesthetics, design language and priorities in different countries in a comparable small world to any of those sci fi universes.

Battletlech is the way it is because the original designs where ripped from 3 different animes and paid no attention to why they where like that, and then the ugliest american mechs designs came because the creators had to dump the nice looking anime mechs for legal reasons.

After all that the only rationaly the fits is because of the Star League era, in Battletech first rate powers are like the small nations that got all the older soviet war equipment after the Soviet Union fell, they all use the same stuff, even if some of them got to fight each other.

 Pointman wrote:
But in the real world we have different aesthetics, design language and priorities in different countries in a comparable small world to any of those sci fi universes.

True. But when one has to think about the varying capacities of different races, one tends to make them more distinct to set them apart. When one doesn't, or they all have the same backlog, having distinct characteristics doesn't come across as that important. The Battletech artists (or developers who organized them) did not have a need for distinctions that other sci-fi franchises with aliens inherently do so human equipment is separated from Klingon, Verpine, Peacekeeper, Turian,Chig, or whatever.

Even as it is, it takes a good eye to tell the difference between most of the WW2 battleships apart between nations.

 Pointman wrote:
Battletlech is the way it is because the original designs where ripped from 3 different animes and paid no attention to why they where like that, and then the ugliest american mechs designs came because the creators had to dump the nice looking anime mechs for legal reasons.

Not all the designs were Japanese designed by the time Harmony Gold started their suits. TRO:3025 carried 34 designs that didn't end up in an anime, while 20 of them did. TRO:3039 conveniently separates them out.

 Pointman wrote:
After all that the only rationaly the fits is because of the Star League era, in Battletech first rate powers are like the small nations that got all the older soviet war equipment after the Soviet Union fell, they all use the same stuff, even if some of them got to fight each other.

This was a point I brought up. Even the Warships are still based on core concepts developed for the Terran Alliance, Hegemony, and then Star League.

Seems like space combat in the BT universe would be really boring to translate to the tabletop. It's just too dry and realistic, and for lots of the setting I have read fiction set during, it's too destructive to risk dwindling space resources.

Think the "all-positioning for a few seconds of combat" battle scenes from the Expanse, but then add in how most people with a ship, especially during the Succession era, are terrified to get that ship damaged for fear of having to find parts to replace it. At least the three big powers of the Expanse all have stable shipyards.

It was a night of gaming that turned into the battle of the electronic warfare

Kurita C3 lance VS capellan stealth lance.

Special rules from tac ops -ghost imaging for ECMs

The table-






The forces







The battle



Kurita started out strong with the C3 network countering much of his stealth bonuses at range however when he got closer and started mixing his ECM duties jamming my C3 on top of some units using ghost imaging, and my complete failure at passing piloting checks to see through it, The game swung very hard in favor of house Lao at the end.

A Shugenja?

I like how you bring obscure 'Mechs.

Yes a Shugenja, it runs a little warm but it is an excellent mech, i even scored a near max damage hit with the MRM 30 this game




I was giving a bit of love to the new plastics in this game, normally when i run a C3 lance i have a ninja-to, grand dragon and daikyu in there.


I have set up a super C3 lance for when i have to fight clans. i added in a battlemaster command with double C3 masters, a hatamoto 28T the above mechs (minus the ninja-to) and swapped out the catapult for a wolverine.

Kuritan C3 double master Lance without a Naginata NC-C3B?

Shamefur dispray!

Was never a fan of the naginata, but i think i have enough variety to put in a good showing.

The Naginata isn't a great 'Mech by anyone's standards (C3 Master in the arm? What?), but it is thematic.

 Charistoph wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Which is irrelevant, because I was demonstrating 4 explicitly human corporations jn Star Wars that all have very strong and very clear and recognizable design languages with their own specific technological masteries. By your rationale, this shouldn't exist, because they are all human.

Except there ARE other races whose influences are there to be compared to. Battletech doesn't need to have any such distinction.

Which is, again, irrelevant. If Star Wars can have a half dozen or more *human* factions/corporations each with their own distinct tech base and stylings, so can Battletech. The fact that Star Wars also has aliens doesn't negate that - especially when for the most part alien tech is the same as human tech owing to the fact that its largely a single galactic society.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A Shugenja?
I like how you bring obscure 'Mechs.

Is it really obscure if you were able to immediately recognize it?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Is it really obscure if you were able to immediately recognize it?

Yeah but I'm me.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Seems like space combat in the BT universe would be really boring to translate to the tabletop. It's just too dry and realistic, and for lots of the setting I have read fiction set during, it's too destructive to risk dwindling space resources.

One of the CGL fact-checkers said on the AMA the other day that's there's very little enthusiasm for the space side of things - he's interested in it as he's got an interest in naval things (IIRC).

Sorry, CGL fact-checkers? What're those?

 Nurglitch wrote:
Sorry, CGL fact-checkers? What're those?

So... QA?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
Except there ARE other races whose influences are there to be compared to. Battletech doesn't need to have any such distinction.

Which is, again, irrelevant. If Star Wars can have a half dozen or more *human* factions/corporations each with their own distinct tech base and stylings, so can Battletech. The fact that Star Wars also has aliens doesn't negate that - especially when for the most part alien tech is the same as human tech owing to the fact that its largely a single galactic society.

And all those stylings are indications of a desire to separate the factions by their designs. Battletech doesn't have that. Partly due to the previous unification of the Star League, partly because of the salvage mentality, and partly because the people doing the drawings were under no pressure to have such distinctions like they would if there were alien factions at play.

The original Omnimechs had a unified design ethos.

 Nurglitch wrote:
The original Omnimechs had a unified design ethos.

They did, mostly. I think there was a bit of laziness, though, as a lot of it is copy/paste.

However, most of this was regarding the Aerospace and Warship aesthetics.

Yeah, but where they found interest in updating the 'mech designs, there's fewer ships and probably fewer legacy Battlespace players despite the smaller number of ships.

 Charistoph wrote:
and partly because the people doing the drawings were under no pressure to have such distinctions like they would if there were alien factions at play.

This is just an incredibly fallacious argument and stance to take. The presence of alien tech is not the reason why artists create visual and aesthetic distinctions. There was no "alien tech" or "alien factions" in A New Hope, the concept of things like the Mon Calamari was non-existent, it was just the evil empire and the rebels and nothing else, yet there was already a clear design language created to differentiate the mostly human good guys from the mostly human bad guys. Mobile Suit Gundam franchise? No aliens in any of the series, clear design language in all of them to differentiate the Earth Federation/good guys from Zeon/the bad guys - and when the series start adding in additional third party factions they *also* have clear design language to differentiate them from everyone else. Theres lots of fictional properties that are basically 100% human and still find a way to strongly visually differentiate different factions from one another. Command & Conquer? 100% human, clear design language across all the factions. Killzone (video game franchise)? All humans (okay technically one of the factions is a slightly mutated evolutionary offshoot, close enough) - still clear design language. Iron Harvest? All human, clear design language to differentiate the factions. Eve-Online? All humans (or human evolutionary offshoots) - clear design language. Homeworld? As far as I know, all human, and clear design language. Endwar? All human, clear design language. etc. etc. etc.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
and partly because the people doing the drawings were under no pressure to have such distinctions like they would if there were alien factions at play.

This is just an incredibly fallacious argument and stance to take. The presence of alien tech is not the reason why artists create visual and aesthetic distinctions. There was no "alien tech" or "alien factions" in A New Hope, the concept of things like the Mon Calamari was non-existent, it was just the evil empire and the rebels and nothing else, yet there was already a clear design language created to differentiate the mostly human good guys from the mostly human bad guys. Mobile Suit Gundam franchise? No aliens in any of the series, clear design language in all of them to differentiate the Earth Federation/good guys from Zeon/the bad guys - and when the series start adding in additional third party factions they *also* have clear design language to differentiate them from everyone else. Theres lots of fictional properties that are basically 100% human and still find a way to strongly visually differentiate different factions from one another. Command & Conquer? 100% human, clear design language across all the factions. Killzone (video game franchise)? All humans (okay technically one of the factions is a slightly mutated evolutionary offshoot, close enough) - still clear design language. Iron Harvest? All human, clear design language to differentiate the factions. Eve-Online? All humans (or human evolutionary offshoots) - clear design language. Homeworld? As far as I know, all human, and clear design language. Endwar? All human, clear design language. etc. etc. etc.

First, I am saying this is part of the situation. There isn't the impetus to have them readily identifiable, especially when everyone has access to the same equipment.

And another part was having the Star League as the common point of origin.

And one other thing. Yes, there are numerous corporations building Mechs all scattered across the Sphere and most created during the Star League. The starships less so.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Is it really obscure if you were able to immediately recognize it?

Yeah but I'm me.

I get what he means, a hardcore Btech fan will know it but a casual player will see many of the same classic mechs-warhammers, atlas's, awsomes, madcats etc.... show up in games and media before something like a lynx or a komodo.

 aphyon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Is it really obscure if you were able to immediately recognize it?

Yeah but I'm me.

I get what he means, a hardcore Btech fan will know it but a casual player will see many of the same classic mechs-warhammers, atlas's, awsomes, madcats etc.... show up in games and media before something like a lynx or a komodo.

I am a fan, but many of the later designs get mixed up together in my mind... of course, the fact that TRO releases got faster and faster didn't help either.