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I imagine there will be more than 4 factions, but thigns will be codensed slightly. We cant really just throw things together like fantasy did, because at least the ones all slammed together by fantasy either worked together regularly (Order, Chaos, and Destruction to some degree) or, in the case of Death, was enslaved by Nagash.

Imo, It will be:

Imperial

Aeldari

Chaos

Tau and Auxillaries (theres tons they could expand on here, so Tau dont really need a team upm rather fleshing out the smaller parts later like they did with a bunch of things in AoS)

Tyranids (mroe gribblies, beasties, and wannabe Godzillas! Genestealer cults get added here, too, of course.)

Necrons (add Pariahs back, maybe expand on the C'tan a bit - maybe mear slivers of fragments if C'tan as a form of 'lesser Daemon almost?)

Orks (again, lots of fleshing out to be done of minor factions. Savage Orks, Freebootaz, Goffs...)

A Tau/Eldar team up doesnt really work anymore. they seem to be setting up a Resurgent Eldar thing, which would mean the dying race guiding its chosen successor would now become the Resurgent Empire at odds with the young Upstarts.

I guess we will have to see where they go with the Storm, now that its gathered.

Divide by 4 or 6 or 8 ?

Maybe 4 are to few, so 6 Groups and 1 wildcard ?

- Space Humans = Imperium, subgroups = Mechanicum , Ecclesiarchy, Space Marines , Imp. Guard , Agents of the Imp.
- Space Elfs = Aeldari, Dark Aeldari, Ynnead followers, Harlies+Exodites etc
- Space Orks = Ork Klans red, yellow, blue , etc pp
- Space Undead = Necron Dynasties a,b,c,d, etc pp
- Space Villains = CSM, Demons, Mutants, the rest of the damned, etc
- Space Bugs = tyranid Hive fleets , I , II , III , etc pp

- New guys on the block in space = Tau / wildcard

This keeps the well known setup of many universes, ( Humans , orks, elves, undead, demons/Angels based, additional type to make this one different from anyone else ) and it may work if they expand on easy to expand factions ( orks + crons are pretty numerous ).

I think your current ally matrix is pretty revealing on what the factions are going to be.

Hint: I don't think it will be more than four. Those wanting allies removed from the game will tend to want a bunch of factions to prevent the allies thing in tournaments today happening, but I think thats wishful thinking. I fully expect when the factions are revealed that every 40k forum on the globe will explode in liquid hot magma on par to what happened when AOS factions were revealed.

I just really hope the imperium of man is.... nerfed on allies. it is currently just ridiculous. oh look a libraries conclave with white scar bikers, dark angels terminators, iron hands cad for vehicles with iwnd and fnp troops. also we have terminators attached to the new GK guy so reroll saves and improve inv save by 1 so 2++ rerollable TH/SS out front.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I just really hope the imperium of man is.... nerfed on allies. it is currently just ridiculous. oh look a libraries conclave with white scar bikers, dark angels terminators, iron hands cad for vehicles with iwnd and fnp troops. also we have terminators attached to the new GK guy so reroll saves and improve inv save by 1 so 2++ rerollable TH/SS out front.

You can bitch about nerfing Imperial allies when I'm allowed to run my Daemonhunters army with one book instead of five.

(Blanket bans on Allies are a popular proposal, but people forget that 'no allies' (absent broader overhauls) would be as good as deleting the Inquisition, GK, Deathwatch, Assassins, the Mechanicum, MT, the Talons of the Emperor...)

(What we really need is Gathering-Storm-style "this detachment can take units from Codexes X, Y, and Z" detachments and a 30k-style one-detachment army. Make people playing allies play allies instead of borrowing a single dude to help out the deathstar.)

(Also it'd help if GW stopped using allies as an excuse to make the GK book Codex: Dreadknights. Some of us like the infantry.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I just really hope the imperium of man is.... nerfed on allies. it is currently just ridiculous. oh look a libraries conclave with white scar bikers, dark angels terminators, iron hands cad for vehicles with iwnd and fnp troops. also we have terminators attached to the new GK guy so reroll saves and improve inv save by 1 so 2++ rerollable TH/SS out front.

You can bitch about nerfing Imperial allies when I'm allowed to run my Daemonhunters army with one book instead of five.

(Blanket bans on Allies are a popular proposal, but people forget that 'no allies' (absent broader overhauls) would be as good as deleting the Inquisition, GK, Deathwatch, Assassins, the Mechanicum, MT, the Talons of the Emperor...)

(What we really need is Gathering-Storm-style "this detachment can take units from Codexes X, Y, and Z" detachments and a 30k-style one-detachment army. Make people playing allies play allies instead of borrowing a single dude to help out the deathstar.)

(Also it'd help if GW stopped using allies as an excuse to make the GK book Codex: Dreadknights. Some of us like the infantry.)

some allies are fine, but its the let me take the best of the best possible everything that annoys me. The really annoying part is also those who bring this as a "fluff list" saying they are alliance of the imperium and then proceed to use their overpowered netlist to destroy my fluffy ork list because they were looking for a "fluffy battle" not that my orks can do anything against that list with their strongest builds. one simple fix would be armies of the imperium, only one space marine chapter tactic can be taken, only relics, units, and powers for that chapter may be taken.

I think if they did AoS 40k. Some of the most abusive items would honestly smooth out.

For example: I play GK. I am pretty much forced to use Dreadknights in my list. I own 2 Dreadnoughts. But, there is zero reason to ever use a Dreadnought in the current lists.

If they both had wounds and movement scores. I might actually field my dreadnoughts.

In the case of my Death guard Army. I would definitely field my Helbrutes.

On a tournament scale, the number of armies in my area that field 4 to 6 wyverns also would be less annoying to face. As right now, they pretty much mean power armored troops not in vehicles lose.

Limit the amount alllies can buff each other. Battle brothers needs a nerf and allies of convenience a buff so make this one step.

This would prevent massive unprecedented synergy while still retaining your ability to field multiple factions (and no: Imperium of man is not one faction.)

And to everyone crying unfluffy I can sooner imagine an ordo malleus inquisitor working with eldar corsair mercenearies than SW. And when has fluff everf been properly represented by the rules? Remember the thread about totally wacky things supported by the game thread?

If they went down the route of AoS, taking allies would mess up your Allegiance right? Because all units would have to have the right keyword in their rules yes? So you would have to rely on a generic faction rules.

Also, at the risk of starting a gak storm, here's how I think things might go faction wise:

Chaos (easy)
Nids (including the gene stealer cultists)
Greenskins (with a bigger emphasis on the different klans)
Everything else. Yes, everyone else. They don't want to fall to chaos, they don't want to be eaten by the nids and they aren't the greenskins. They hate each other's guts but they'll work together when faced with the threat of the other three. There's a bit of president for it already.

Absolutely zero chance IMO that you'll see a standalone faction for Orks, Tyranids, Tau, or Necrons. Why would they do this?

For sure it's gonna be Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, and something like Xenos to lump the rest of the line together.

I'm not even 100% convinced they'll give Eldar their own place.

 Jambles wrote:
Absolutely zero chance IMO that you'll see a standalone faction for Orks, Tyranids, Tau, or Necrons. Why would they do this?

You understand that they rejigged a lot of the fluff for AoS, right? That's why we have things divided up the way they are in AoS.

You have the "Destruction" faction consisting of Orruks, Ogors, and the Grots because Ogors apparently have been worshiping Gork and Mork since the End Times.

We haven't seen anything quite as drastic as destroying the Old World for 40k yet.
Yet.

Personally, I'm hoping Guilliman tears down the Commissariat.

For sure it's gonna be Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, and something like Xenos to lump the rest of the line together.

I'm not even 100% convinced they'll give Eldar their own place.

They did.

It's called "Aeldari". They even went and redid some of the dividing lines from before to make things a bit more interesting.

Orks, Nids and Necrons should be standalone factions - they're nobody's friends, just things to destroy and eat.

Tau, they can be Eldar friends in the sense that the enemy of my enemey is my friend.

I just a thought of the nids and necrons being paired together, with a joint aim of destroying all sentient life in the galaxy in order to defeat Chaos once and for all. No more life with emotions means no more Chaos. Pariahs could be brought back, and made up of various races, like an evil warp repelling stormcast faction.

Just a thought. They probably won't do it though.

I would hate it if they lumped nids into another factions, it is shown throughout every lore book that includes tyranids that they hate everybody. their current ally chart shows that they are 'come the apocalypse' allies only with everybody, basically meaning they cannot ally. I mean this could change, but I hope not.

I feel like hate is a strong word for Tyranids., they are just hungry. does a lion hate a gazelle or is it a meal?

Kanluwen wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Absolutely zero chance IMO that you'll see a standalone faction for Orks, Tyranids, Tau, or Necrons. Why would they do this?

You understand that they rejigged a lot of the fluff for AoS, right? That's why we have things divided up the way they are in AoS.

You have the "Destruction" faction consisting of Orruks, Ogors, and the Grots because Ogors apparently have been worshiping Gork and Mork since the End Times.

We haven't seen anything quite as drastic as destroying the Old World for 40k yet.
Yet.

Personally, I'm hoping Guilliman tears down the Commissariat.

For sure it's gonna be Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, and something like Xenos to lump the rest of the line together.

I'm not even 100% convinced they'll give Eldar their own place.

They did.

It's called "Aeldari". They even went and redid some of the dividing lines from before to make things a bit more interesting.

I'm desperately hoping they don't, and I know I'm not the only one. Doing what they did to Fantasy's lore to 40k might be the one thing GW could do that would actually make me stop playing.

I'm all for 'advancing the plot' and such, like they've been doing, it's been fun. If they retcon, I'm probably just gonna dip.

Sorry, not seeing the "Aeldari" section on the GW website? They're still split into Craftworld/Dark/Harlequins. Unless your point is about the soft lore reworking they did to introduce the concept of "Aeldari" as being the name of the Eldar race as a whole, and extrapolating that into what MAY become a new faction in what MAY be the new way factions are done in 40k?

In which case I assert that they haven't yet done what you say they have, and my point stands that there's no certainty the Eldar will end up with their own general faction in this proposed division.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Orks, Nids and Necrons should be standalone factions - they're nobody's friends, just things to destroy and eat.

Tau, they can be Eldar friends in the sense that the enemy of my enemey is my friend.

Should, and will, are entirely different things. Ideally they're breaking down what "should" be it's own faction and replacing that with what works best together.

Like, the Space Marines should arguably be their own faction separate from the rest of the Imperium, being the semi-autonomous political entities they are - but not all the Space Marines like to work together, and some of them operate very differently, so we should probably make sure to keep ones like the Space Wolves and Dark Angels distinct... aaand now we're just back here in 7th.

 Jambles wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Absolutely zero chance IMO that you'll see a standalone faction for Orks, Tyranids, Tau, or Necrons. Why would they do this?

You understand that they rejigged a lot of the fluff for AoS, right? That's why we have things divided up the way they are in AoS.

You have the "Destruction" faction consisting of Orruks, Ogors, and the Grots because Ogors apparently have been worshiping Gork and Mork since the End Times.

We haven't seen anything quite as drastic as destroying the Old World for 40k yet.
Yet.

Personally, I'm hoping Guilliman tears down the Commissariat.

For sure it's gonna be Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, and something like Xenos to lump the rest of the line together.

I'm not even 100% convinced they'll give Eldar their own place.

They did.

It's called "Aeldari". They even went and redid some of the dividing lines from before to make things a bit more interesting.

I'm desperately hoping they don't, and I know I'm not the only one. Doing what they did to Fantasy's lore to 40k might be the one thing GW could do that would actually make me stop playing.

I'm all for 'advancing the plot' and such, like they've been doing, it's been fun. If they retcon, I'm probably just gonna dip.

"Retcon" isn't what they did with the Old World. I know, I know, I know some people will argue that...but it wasn't.

They didn't just have it "all be a dream" or something stupid like that. They wiped it all out. The Old World burned. There's a smoldering core of it left, but it is uninhabitable and is nothing but an albatross hung across Sigmar's neck. He's sitting brooding over his massive failure.

Sorry, not seeing the "Aeldari" section on the GW website? They're still split into Craftworld/Dark/Harlequins. Unless your point is about the soft lore reworking they did to introduce the concept of "Aeldari" as being the name of the Eldar race as a whole, and extrapolating that into what MAY become a new faction in what MAY be the new way factions are done in 40k?

In which case I assert that they haven't yet done what you say they have, and my point stands that there's no certainty the Eldar will end up with their own general faction in this proposed division.

Uh yeah, they absolutely did do that.

Read "Gathering Storm II". It wasn't just a "soft lore reworking". Ynnari and Aeldari are specifically named in rules related material, not just lore stuff.

 firechcken23 wrote:
I would hate it if they lumped nids into another factions, it is shown throughout every lore book that includes tyranids that they hate everybody. their current ally chart shows that they are 'come the apocalypse' allies only with everybody, basically meaning they cannot ally.

Except GSC, per the new GSC book.

What's the Dark Eldar's current status?

They're part of the Aeldari...?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Absolutely zero chance IMO that you'll see a standalone faction for Orks, Tyranids, Tau, or Necrons. Why would they do this?

You understand that they rejigged a lot of the fluff for AoS, right? That's why we have things divided up the way they are in AoS.

You have the "Destruction" faction consisting of Orruks, Ogors, and the Grots because Ogors apparently have been worshiping Gork and Mork since the End Times.

We haven't seen anything quite as drastic as destroying the Old World for 40k yet.
Yet.

Personally, I'm hoping Guilliman tears down the Commissariat.

For sure it's gonna be Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, and something like Xenos to lump the rest of the line together.

I'm not even 100% convinced they'll give Eldar their own place.

They did.

It's called "Aeldari". They even went and redid some of the dividing lines from before to make things a bit more interesting.

I'm desperately hoping they don't, and I know I'm not the only one. Doing what they did to Fantasy's lore to 40k might be the one thing GW could do that would actually make me stop playing.

I'm all for 'advancing the plot' and such, like they've been doing, it's been fun. If they retcon, I'm probably just gonna dip.

"Retcon" isn't what they did with the Old World. I know, I know, I know some people will argue that...but it wasn't.

They didn't just have it "all be a dream" or something stupid like that. They wiped it all out. The Old World burned. There's a smoldering core of it left, but it is uninhabitable and is nothing but an albatross hung across Sigmar's neck. He's sitting brooding over his massive failure.

Sorry, not seeing the "Aeldari" section on the GW website? They're still split into Craftworld/Dark/Harlequins. Unless your point is about the soft lore reworking they did to introduce the concept of "Aeldari" as being the name of the Eldar race as a whole, and extrapolating that into what MAY become a new faction in what MAY be the new way factions are done in 40k?

In which case I assert that they haven't yet done what you say they have, and my point stands that there's no certainty the Eldar will end up with their own general faction in this proposed division.

Uh yeah, they absolutely did do that.

Read "Gathering Storm II". It wasn't just a "soft lore reworking". Ynnari and Aeldari are specifically named in rules related material, not just lore stuff.

Semantics the first - who gives a damn if the 'old world' exists in their current world or not? They got rid of the old lore and replaced it dude. Call it whatever you want, I think it was a really bad move.

Semantics the second - I read gathering storm 2, and I saw the Aeldari lore they introduced and the new Ynnari faction. You're arguing that this means the Aeldari are a faction in 40k? Cause I don't think it do - the Ynnari are a new faction, is that what you meant? But I also don't think that's what you're arguing, I'm pretty sure you're trying to say it's in the lore, which I'm not contesting you on. I'm just talking about rules.

 Jambles wrote:

Semantics the first - who gives a damn if the 'old world' exists in their current world or not? They got rid of the old lore and replaced it dude. Call it whatever you want, I think it was a really bad move.

Actually, the old lore still exists. It talks about that as the "World that Was".

You can think it's a bad move as much as you want; it is not the same thing as a retcon.

Semantics the second - I read gathering storm 2, and I saw the Aeldari lore they introduced and the new Ynnari faction. You're arguing that this means the Aeldari are a faction in 40k? Cause I don't think it do - the Ynnari are a new faction, is that what you meant? But I also don't think that's what you're arguing, I'm pretty sure you're trying to say it's in the lore, which I'm not contesting you on. I'm just talking about rules.

No, I meant what I said.

Ynnari, as a faction, have rules specifying Aeldari models.

I was asking that because I think it's time that the Dark Eldar just bit the bullet and became a chaos faction. In ancient real life societies, worship of the gods had as much to do with keeping them happy and content as it did with anything else. People thought if they just did the prayers and the sacrifices, they wouldn't suffer a plague or a storm. Think of the Dark Eldar doing something like this. They keep killing and raiding to keep their souls intact and to 'pay off' she who thirsts.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

Semantics the first - who gives a damn if the 'old world' exists in their current world or not? They got rid of the old lore and replaced it dude. Call it whatever you want, I think it was a really bad move.

Actually, the old lore still exists. It talks about that as the "World that Was".

You can think it's a bad move as much as you want; it is not the same thing as a retcon.

Pedantry. Consider that it's not a question of there being a context for where the story went within the universe - maybe all that matters is that Spiderman and Mary Jane aren't together anymore, you know? Remake, reboot, revamp, re-imagining, retcon... it's different, now, than it was before. Arguing the context of the changes is meaningless.

And I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about the Aeldari. I'll be buying their Codex as soon as it comes out, for sure.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Orks, Nids and Necrons should be standalone factions - they're nobody's friends, just things to destroy and eat.

Tau, they can be Eldar friends in the sense that the enemy of my enemey is my friend.

We have more examples in fluff of the Necrons working with the IoM than we have examples of the Tau working with the IoM, the most recent of which was Trazyn the infinite saving the Cadia Gate multiple times at the beginning of the rising storm. Necrons have also engaged in trade with the IoM via rogue traders, and have diplomatic relations with the Tau. Certain Necron factions like the Mephrit dynasty might fall into the category of nobodies allies, but Immohtek, Trazyn, and several other phaerons are capable of working with others to further their own ends, which is all diplomacy amounts to in the 40k universe (and arguably ours as well). Take the Tau for example, the Necrons are a much better ally for them against the IoM, the Eldar are weak and getting weaker, where as the Necrons strength increases by the day. Long term the eldar have a more live and let live attitude, but at the current rate of population decay they will be dust and memory by the time the Tau and Necrons are ready to overthrow the IoM.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're part of the Aeldari...?

Thats not exactly precise. The Ynnari have similarities with the reunification of the Elven race in Fantasy but its not the same.

The Ynnari are a NEW faction of Dark Eldar, Eldar, Harlequin and even Exodites, but they are a small fraction.

Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequin are still their own thing and they are much bigger in number that the Ynnari.

Aeldari its just another them for Eldar.

 Grimgold wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Orks, Nids and Necrons should be standalone factions - they're nobody's friends, just things to destroy and eat.

Tau, they can be Eldar friends in the sense that the enemy of my enemey is my friend.

We have more examples in fluff of the Necrons working with the IoM than we have examples of the Tau working with the IoM, the most recent of which was Trazyn the infinite saving the Cadia Gate multiple times at the beginning of the rising storm. Necrons have also engaged in trade with the IoM via rogue traders, and have diplomatic relations with the Tau. Certain Necron factions like the Mephrit dynasty might fall into the category of nobodies allies, but Immohtek, Trazyn, and several other phaerons are capable of working with others to further their own ends, which is all diplomacy amounts to in the 40k universe (and arguably ours as well). Take the Tau for example, the Necrons are a much better ally for them against the IoM, the Eldar are weak and getting weaker, where as the Necrons strength increases by the day. Long term the eldar have a more live and let live attitude, but at the current rate of population decay they will be dust and memory by the time the Tau and Necrons are ready to overthrow the IoM.

Yeah, this is all a good point. I like the Necrons going to the stage of Kingdoms all over the galaxies with different motives. But regardless, they could fit into an Order Faction.

 Galas wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're part of the Aeldari...?

Thats not exactly precise. The Ynnari have similarities with the reunification of the Elven race in Fantasy but its not the same.

The Ynnari are a NEW faction of Dark Eldar, Eldar, Harlequin and even Exodites, but they are a small fraction.

Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequin are still their own thing and they are much bigger in number that the Ynnari.

Aeldari its just another them for Eldar.

You're familiar with AoS, right?

Aeldari is certainly "another term for Eldar"...except it's also now being used to describe models that are Eldar of any flavor. Read the Ynnari rules. It talks in some places about "Aeldari" models, in other places about models with the "Ynnari faction".

Aeldari is not interchangeable with Ynnari or Eldar or Dark Eldar or Harlequin.
Aeldari is more like how the various Elf flavors have gotten "Aelf" as a keyword.

Yes, you are correct. At first I responded a point that I thinked you maked, but then I realized that you were talking about other thing. Sorry! :S

Orks could ally with almost every faction, barring those too zealous to work with them. There are numerous examples of Ork mercenaries.