[Modiphius] Fallout: Wasteland Warfare - Liberty Prime Incoming! p.53

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**Desubot**

@modiphius

Though too late as i already checked out

would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?

my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.

**Manchu**

Not really put off by the prices TBH. Wish I could spare the money to just go ahead all in. Biggest thing holding me back from pre-ordering at this point is lack of pics of figs.

**MajorWesJanson**

Desubot wrote:
@modiphius

Though too late as i already checked out

would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?

my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.

Agreed. I'd rather pay somewhat more for the resin models in the starter than have to buy them separately and have duplicates. Or at least put the resin versions in as a freebie for the top two bundles (Depending on how long the preorder window is, I may end up with the Vault Dwellers bundle)

**Grot 6**

modiphius wrote:
Aeneades wrote:Someone has just pointed out that the starter set is actually pvc according to the description. I am assuming that's a mistake as Chris did say that this set was resin with larger pvc starter next year.

Yes we weren't happy with the pricing on the resin starter (with all the overseas production required for dice, counters, cards etc so decided to go the hardened pvc route to give better value for money, cheaper price and means we're better able to get stock out there. It also means a pre-assembled starter set to get more people in to the hobby quickly.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:
Some of these things are just baffling. $34 for a fething Corvega? $20 for 4 barrels? $34 for 6 Ghouls?

Gotta love the BoS "core box" that has 6 mooks and ONE suit of power armour in it. Oh yeah, $54 please.

HIGHLY disappointed....

I agree, the pricing is disappointing. $34 for a single piece resin car seems like a lot. I guess the plans for having the interior included fell through, too. I am further left scratching my head when the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot are both cheaper than the scatter terrain car.

Also, Cait, one of the figures I was most looking forward to, has an awful face sculpt and a XBOX HUGE shotgun. Bleh.

Waiting for retail.

Yes the covega is a huge piece of resin - that really pushes up production costs. The BoS suit is balanced well - you need a good mixture of soldiers in combat armour, Scribes who can do hacking, and the T60 is very powerful - especially with the Gatling laser which is an insane weapon. Remember the T60 is a BIG figure on a 40mm base. This all pushes up the costs and we include a whole set of BoS themed cards - from units to gear, AI, etc in the box to kit out your BoS force.

The Sentry Bot is actually smaller resin pieces and doesn't use up the volume of resin as the Corvega, same goes for the Deathclaw

Grot 6 wrote:
This companies "Star Trek" game is in the same boat. 8 guys for over 50 bucks and more insane price structures...Modiphius has no idea that they are on the chopping block when they do this to the customer, and if it continues, they will be out of business this year, because they are pushing more to make these products and gut themselves on license, then they will in gaining players and sales.

Remember that's 8 unique licensed character figures for 52 bucks - if you compare that to other minis lines you're typically getting 10 man units for over 50 bucks with several repeats. Licenses don't come free and nor does having each figure unique in the box - that's a huge cost in sculpting. The two 10 man squads are also $52 again for a licensed resin set and with some repeats like other similar lines. We're not using the cheapest manufacturers but what we believe are one of the best and that comes with a cost. We're not out to screw people over we look carefully at costs, see where we can shave things down, or increase the value. With Fallout we spent a long time working on the costs, trying to get them down but at some point you risk compromising the quality for the customer too and that's not worth it.

Good luck with that thought process.

**Aeneades**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Desubot wrote:
@modiphius

Though too late as i already checked out

would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?

my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.

Agreed. I'd rather pay somewhat more for the resin models in the starter than have to buy them separately and have duplicates. Or at least put the resin versions in as a freebie for the top two bundles (Depending on how long the preorder window is, I may end up with the Vault Dwellers bundle)

Preorder window is up until about February according to a post on Facebook. The orders will be shipped in the order they are placed though so later orders will be shipped a little later.

**Pacific**

That would be my main wish as well - want the Resin miniatures rather than PVC, but it seems rather wasteful getting duplicates of everything with the upgrade set.

Would be perfectly happy if that set was an option, even for the + £20 mentioned above in the thread!

The prices are pretty much as I expected for a licenced product

**Vorian**

Anyone expecting less was dreaming.

Put me down for another vote for a resin starter.

**Geifer**

Did some quick math. I realize this may not help anyone who suffers sticker shock, but for what it's worth:

The big set (Vault Tec Complete) comes with a little less than 80 models (not counting terrain except the Corvega and turrets). That's a per model cost of a bit above 10€. This doesn't account for the Corvega, Sentry Bot, Deathclaw and Behemoth being large models and a whole host of Super Mutants coming in larger than normal humans. On the flipside, it doesn't account for PVC on a dozen models either.

But compare that to other manufacturers. I'll just go with the ones I buy most from:

Raging Heroes is 5€ per model for troops, 6€ per model for command section, and in excess of 11€ for individual models.
Brother Vinni is 7.20€ for individual human models and in excess of 9€ for larger sized models.
Golem Miniatures sells individual resin models for 8€+.
Hasslefree sells individual resin master series models for 10€.

Now as I said, I paid a little over 10€ per model for my preorder if, only if I count just the models. What is not accounted for is rules, cards, tokens, dice, the size of the aforementioned large models, a card gas station and a 3x3 gaming mat.

Then you add licensing fees.

For me, Modiphius is clearly not going above industry standard with pricing, so I have no problem with paying these prices.

**Aeneades**

The big Vault Tec bundle contains a lot of scenery and card components as well so you may be better off working out the per model cost based upon the Vault Dweller bundle instead as that cuts out the scenery, rulers, dice, extra card deck, etc.

However there appears to be an issue with the Vault Dwller bundle pricing as it claims to have savings of £50 compared with purchasing individually but it's actually £10 more expensive. I suspect that they have missed the resin starter models off the component list but that still has it off by £5. Waiting for official response.

**Geifer**

Aeneades wrote:
The big Vault Tec bundle contains a lot of scenery and card components as well so you may be better off working out the per model cost based upon the Vault Dweller bundle instead as that cuts out the scenery, rulers, dice, extra card deck, etc.

However there appears to be an issue with the Vault Dwller bundle pricing as it claims to have savings of £50 compared with purchasing individually but it's actually £10 more expensive. I suspect that they have missed the resin starter models off the component list but that still has it off by £5. Waiting for official response.

Yeah, the idea was not to establish a super accurate price per model and more to point out some facts and figures.

Make no mistake, I went into this prepared and when I saw the prices on the screen my first thought still was, boy that's a whoooooole lot of money. I couldn't just place an order without going over the numbers first.

Now I'm not telling anybody they have to like the prices. I know price is a touchy subject that everyone has to decide for themselves if it's worth it.

But the facts don't lie and I can't see any inflated prices compared to other what other companies offer. The point is about quality having its price is valid, too. I have a couple of cheap resin models and you can see their low price reflected in design and casting quality. As I said before, it would have been good, and honestly direly necessary as far as I'm concerned, to have actual model pictures available for the preorder start. But that's not who it turned out and I can understand anyone who hesitates to place an order on those grounds.

When price per model is concerned, I'd go off of the individual packs (I didn't in my last post because I posted about what affected me directly). Small numbers, easy to calculate, and you don't have to worry about any bulk discounts. Take the Minuteman Posse and Boston Survivors packs for 25 and 20 GBP respectively. That's 6.25 and 6.66 GBP per model respectively, or by current exchange rate around something like 7.50€ to 8€ per model. That's for regular human sized models.

Of course, as mentioned before, one thing that positively affects me and other Europeans is the favorable exchange rate, so I may have a different perspective than others who don't benefit from the weaker pound.

**Aeneades**

The Vault Dweller bundle has now been reduced to £335 as earlier price was a mistake. It does not contain the resin models for the starter set.

**Vorian**

So, generally cheaper than something like Infinity... but in resin rather than metal ... and with the Fallout license?

**BrookM**

edit.

Nevermind, still a nice model

**Geifer**

It's nice and if had thought about it, what were the odds of getting anything but Nuka-Girl as the special issue model.

**JonWebb**

Geifer wrote:
It's nice and if had thought about it, what were the odds of getting anything but Nuka-Girl as the special issue model.

The FIRST special edition model...

I've said too much!

**Geifer**

JonWebb wrote:
Geifer wrote:
It's nice and if had thought about it, what were the odds of getting anything but Nuka-Girl as the special issue model.

The FIRST special edition model...

I've said too much!

You already got all my money!

So, Grognak when?

**Alpharius**

I guess that Fallout license was more expensive than many of us thought/anticipated/estimated.

This will probably have to 'wait until retail' for me...

**Geifer**

From Chris Birch on Facebook:

RADSTORM MAYHEM! We’ve been working overnight to update some of the bundles, talked to the factory to see what we can do and listened to everyone's comments. See below for some big changes...
- VAULT DWELLER BUNDLE ONLY £335 NOT £395
- VAULT-TEC COMPLETE PACKAGE BUNDLE - Extra scenic set, Creature Blisters instead of Creature Set
- SCENIC SET - Extra Corvega Sedan
- RESIN TWO PLAYER STARTER SET - £69.99 online only

MORE BELOW:

- VAULT DWELLER BUNDLE ONLY £335 - it was incorrectly priced and should have been just £335 not £395! Anyone who purchased it is being offered a refund of the difference.

- VAULT-TEC COMPLETE PACKAGE BUNDLE has been updated to include a second Scenic Set (which also includes a second Corvega so you now get 4!), and we’ve changed the Creature set out to include one of each of the Creature Blisters instead, it now saves you £175 on the total value!

- SCENIC SET has had an extra Corvega Sedan added to give you more to use on your tabletop and saves £40 on the total value.

- RESIN TWO PLAYER STARTER SET We've now added this version at £69.99 which includes everything you need to play. The only difference is this version does not come with the Deathclaw (which was a bonus for the PVC set). The Resin Two Player Set will only be available online as part of the pre-order initially due to the logistics of separating the components at the factory, and getting them packed in the UK instead. It comes as a bundle of products not in retail packaging. https://www.modiphius.net/…/fallout-wasteland-warfare-resin…

- We'd added more info to both starter sets, the included missions were not mentioned. The Starter Set comes with 5 x Training missions following the Survivors and Super Mutants, 5 x Tournament Missions, 5 x AI Missions and 5 x Narrative Missions.

We're always listening - please ask questions below if you need help.

**Tannhauser42**

They had me at Nuka Girl.

While there is a bit of initial sticker shock, the prices are comparable to other wargames out there.

**Hanskrampf**

For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.

Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.

With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.

**Aeneades**

Thanks Chris. That has more or less resolved all the concerns I had with the big bundle so a definite pick up for me now.

**Vorian**

Hanskrampf wrote:
For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.

Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.

With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.

Which skirmish game are you comparing it to that you think makes this look expensive?

**Hanskrampf**

Vorian wrote:
Hanskrampf wrote:
For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.

Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.

With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.

Which skirmish game are you comparing it to that you think makes this look expensive?

Infinity Red Veil / Icestorm: RRP 90 € - 14 (+1 preorder) super sweet and detailed minis in metal, okay-ish cardboard terrain, paper playmat, counters, starter rules, full free rules online

PVC minis might be good quality these days, but I always thought it's chosen for mass producing lots of miniatures for a low price: see CMON or similiar kickstarters for example. Not sure why it was chosen as a material for the starter, because obviously the low price seems to be lost on the way to the customer. Maybe a Kickstarter would have been the better way for the starter to keep the cost low and see how much interest there really is.

**Vorian**

So €80 for the Resin starter for 11 resin miniatures (+ added game junk) is much of a difference?

Even then that's one specific item, the rest of the range compares favourably to infinity... whilst also being in s superior material and being Fsllout.

I'm not saying Infinity is bad, or expensive, just this is the same ballpark in price and quality.

**str00dles1**

Hanskrampf wrote:
Vorian wrote:
Hanskrampf wrote:
For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.

Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.

With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.

Which skirmish game are you comparing it to that you think makes this look expensive?

Infinity Red Veil / Icestorm: RRP 90 € - 14 (+1 preorder) super sweet and detailed minis in metal, okay-ish cardboard terrain, paper playmat, counters, starter rules, full free rules online

PVC minis might be good quality these days, but I always thought it's chosen for mass producing lots of miniatures for a low price: see CMON or similiar kickstarters for example. Not sure why it was chosen as a material for the starter, because obviously the low price seems to be lost on the way to the customer. Maybe a Kickstarter would have been the better way for the starter to keep the cost low and see how much interest there really is.

Miniature gamers are so weird with prices...

Red Veil is 110 USD Retail Fallout Retail is 80 USD. Yea, you can get Red Veil at a third party discount like miniature market for 82$

You get 2 more miniatures for infinity. The preorder bonus guy is long over. The "super sweet detail" is all objective. Yea, infinity is nice, but I absolutely hate metal, regardless of how "good" it looks. The terrain, is also subjective. I think its pretty crap, same with the paper game mat. That's going to last you a few games and its gone. If you have a FLGS who has boards/terrain, then you don't need to have either in the set. This, like infinity has the cards counters dice rules. So that's the same. Given time, this can easily get moved to third party sellers at a discount like infinity is.

So, for 30$ more you get 2 models, a paper mat and cardboard terrain. All of that makes sense to me. Most 2 player starter sets are around 100$ these days.

I agree the car and vending machine terrain is way over priced, and ill never buy it but the packs of minis and sets are on par with todays market.

**Alpharius**

Prices may be comparable, but 'quality' remains an unknown as this point.

*Especially* on the "PVC" side of things.

**cerealkiller195**

That's the way i saw it when i looked at the prices, they were on par with infinity/batman/malifaux. The game also has card components for skills/equipment that factors into cost (of course the license itself has to be paid for in addition to his).

Also when it comes to skirmish games I always find it odd that some wargamers will spend hundreds to a few thousand on an army on GW product but when any other company does something similar it is the end of the world. In skirmish games you generally need less models so while the upfront cost of a box of 4-6 models seems high that is probably all if not most of your army in one go. In fact buying the starter plus booster for the army probably has way more than what you can bring to a regular battle so you will have plenty of options to play around with.

The one thing i really want them to release is the alternate heads/weapons sprue they were talking about in one of the surveys in order to customize some of the models. I will say the terrain seems overpriced but that's because terrain is one of the things most people can make dirt cheap on their own if they have the time/inclination to do so.

**Geifer**

Alpharius wrote:
Prices may be comparable, but 'quality' remains an unknown as this point.

*Especially* on the "PVC" side of things.

That's true and should definitely be considered.

**Desubot**

Geifer wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Prices may be comparable, but 'quality' remains an unknown as this point.

*Especially* on the "PVC" side of things.

That's true and should definitely be considered.

Yeah cant wait to see some actual model photos rather than only renders.

**DarkTraveler777**

modiphius wrote:

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:
Some of these things are just baffling. $34 for a fething Corvega? $20 for 4 barrels? $34 for 6 Ghouls?

Gotta love the BoS "core box" that has 6 mooks and ONE suit of power armour in it. Oh yeah, $54 please.

HIGHLY disappointed....

I agree, the pricing is disappointing. $34 for a single piece resin car seems like a lot. I guess the plans for having the interior included fell through, too. I am further left scratching my head when the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot are both cheaper than the scatter terrain car.

Also, Cait, one of the figures I was most looking forward to, has an awful face sculpt and a XBOX HUGE shotgun. Bleh.

Waiting for retail.

Yes the covega is a huge piece of resin - that really pushes up production costs. The BoS suit is balanced well - you need a good mixture of soldiers in combat armour, Scribes who can do hacking, and the T60 is very powerful - especially with the Gatling laser which is an insane weapon. Remember the T60 is a BIG figure on a 40mm base. This all pushes up the costs and we include a whole set of BoS themed cards - from units to gear, AI, etc in the box to kit out your BoS force.

The Sentry Bot is actually smaller resin pieces and doesn't use up the volume of resin as the Corvega, same goes for the Deathclaw

Why is the Covega solid resin? Since it doesn't have an interior couldn't it have been made hollow to save on weight and resin and thus lowering the price?

Also, the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot presumably are not single-piece figures and have additional parts which increases casting costs over a single-piece resin car. Still, they are much cheaper than the car. They also have more utility than the car since they are game pieces versus scatter terrain. The website doesn't list any additional components coming with the Covega, no cards, no tokens, nothing to increase it's utility in the game other than being cover/terrain. All that makes the price hard to accept.

Coupled with the recent addition of an additional Covega model to the terrain bundle makes me think the single car is over priced.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
Prices may be comparable, but 'quality' remains an unknown as this point.

*Especially* on the "PVC" side of things.

Also this.