Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

tl;dr: Frog in boiling water syndrome.


If you have played this game for any length of time, you have invested more money over the edition changes than you could possibly spend "updating" to 8th. You bleed slow, and thus didn't complain (well, you did - after every edition there is always anger yet people still spend $). You the band-aid gets ripped off now, and suddenly it's a personal assault on your vision of what 40K should be.


You cannot build upon ANY system over a span of time that does not deprecate a vast portion of it's previous infrastructure....unless you are the IRS (ie: Impossible but they refuse to admit it). In 40K terms, there was no way to integrate a drastic change of infrastructure with old rules -- unless they did it slowly over the course of 3-4 generations. NO ONE WANTED THAT. gak's broke. We all know it. Spending years slowly changing wasn't going to work - Incremental changes to a new core infrastructure are nearly impossible to implement without regressions.

Your "investment" in the hobby is irrelevant. Previous history does not predict future gains -- how something worked in the past doesn't mean that's how it will be in the future. You either accept, or you don't - either way, you have options.

Caederes wrote:

The APP gives you the CORE RULES for FREE. All you need then is the GENERAL'S HANDBOOK for the points and scenarios and your BATTLETOME for formations/traits. That is ALL you need.

How many freaking times do I have to correct people that know NOTHING about Age of Sigmar?

Probably forever until something changes and it sounds better? I'd say it's an improvement over 6th/7th bloathammer 40k but your description is basically the equivalent of the core rulebook and codex so we're just back to 5th edition and the "free" part is a bit of an exaggeration in terms of what you need to buy/bring (whether physical or digital). What happens when GHB 2 comes out? And 3? And 4? It's apparently a yearly thing now so defeats the purpose after the first year. That's why I suggested the only real change that would be truly beneficial to the game and customers would be to update the core free rules (whether as a pdf or army building online program) with that annual content and offer it as a deluxe purchase option additionally.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Mitochondria wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

Mitochondria wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.

Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!

Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha

Oh, I know you! You`re the FFG promoter dude Welcome! I hope you have a good time here, in a 40k thread proving to us, what idiots we are!

Anyway, I hope the New Starter is not just arines, but I might still be tempted, if minis are good: like the ones we`ve seen from Death Guard teaser (Assuming there are DG in th new strter box)

Yeah, it really is a shame that GAMES WORKSHOP sucks at making games.

FFG does a better job.

Heading to a tournament today. Hopefully, I can steer somone onto the better path. Wish me luck.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure at this point you're trolling.

"At this point"??!! You might want to check your detector for malfunctions, mine went nuts on his very first post.

I'm very optimistic about this release. It'll drag me back in after missing two editions of bloaty crap.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™

AHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

*falls off chair laughing*

Look guys! A Trademark Symbol!!! Even they're doing it now.

BYE™

The stick has finally be removed from their collective asses

The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.

*Sigh*
I REALLY dont know how to feel
Core Rules change? Ok, im fine with this
3 ways to play? (It could literally be summed up as Unbound, a Campaign list and Normal Play, so normal 40k)
Free Rules? A Suprise to be sure, but a welcome one
Removing existing books? Its both A. A welcome addition (I.E Remove Decurions) but B. A MASSIVE Slap in the face
3 Factions? Thats just dumb, keep each army dependent on an allies chart


But i feel GW is just going to slip into their old ways, and start making decurions in battletomes

Ill have a look at 8th, if i dont like it, ill play 30k...

@warboss

The thing is that unlike 40K you don't actually *need* the General's Handbook and a Battletome. You can play games with points thanks to the various army builder websites around which GW is actively encouraging, and all unit rules are free thanks to the app. Even if you do buy them, that's still better than 7th Edition 40K when you often need a supplement and possibly a FW or campaign book. Not to mention that some armies don't actually need their Battletome...you'd be surprised at how many Stormcast Eternal players skip the Battletome in favour of the Order Allegiance stuff they get from the Generals Handbook alone.

All I can say is.. RIP KDK. Fare thee well sweet prince.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.

Again, this is not new.
For reference, see:
2nd Edition.
3rd Edition
4th Edition
5th Edition
6th Edition
7th Edition
and all the various codexes that were made irrelevant with rule changes.


This is not a brand new revelation. What IS a new revelation is free core rules for 8th.

No, it says "new edition" so it must be new.

Does anyone expect to not buy any new books for a new edition? If you only want to use existing stuff with your existing rules then do that, it's daft to assume you'll get a new edition and new units with new rules etc. magically appear in your existing book.

Even if the new rules were 2 years away under the old release mantra, you'd expect to get a new codex for new toys.

So what I want to know is when is the "40k8th Age of Butthurt" fan project firing up?

Caederes wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:


This is the quote from the GW website.
This is not an argument of how you can play AoS or 40k and their comparison. If you want to compare minimalist cost comparisons then the comparisons have to be equal. People were comparing the costs overall of 40k for getting everything they need vs the minimalist AoS approach which is not balanced or reasonable.

The 40k rulebook provides both scenarios/background/rules combined. The AoS rules do not. You hence need to compare equally. That cost £50 or so. So to be fair comparison you also need to include the cost of the background and scenario information (which for the starter book is £45) if you just want to grab some models, plonk them on a table and roll some dice then yes it is cheaper books wise. But if you are interested in different scenarios/ and the background for the different factions (even if you don't want to play them) then you need to get all the books and that is vastly more expensive. So it depends on what you want from the game, whether it is just a wargame or a more encompassing hobby.

Oh for christ's sake, ALMOST NO-ONE WHO PLAYS MATCHED PLAY USES THE CAMPAIGN BOOKS. Formations from campaign books are usually ILLEGAL in Matched Play.

The APP gives you the CORE RULES for FREE. All you need then is the GENERAL'S HANDBOOK for the points and scenarios and your BATTLETOME for formations/traits. That is ALL you need.

How many freaking times do I have to correct people that know NOTHING about Age of Sigmar?

And before you even dare to say "but the scenarios in the campaign book..." NONE OF THEM ARE USED IN MATCHED PLAY. They are the exact same thing as Altar of War missions from supplements and campaign books found in 40K.

Erm... did you actually read what I said? Or are you just yelling because someone might be criticising GW? The quote you are referencing doesn't even mention matched play and formations as to whether they are illegal to use.

It's like you have focussed on matched play as the *only* way to play and that unless you want to be only competitive, ignoring background, different scenarios and so on then the rest doesn't matter. I have not once stated that if you want to go this 'minimalist' hobby route then it is not cheaper, but as I have previously stated that is not the only way to play and for some people much prefer a holistic wider gaming/hobby experience. Might I suggest that after such information passes through your visual cortex that you transfer such information to the neocortex rather than the archipallium in the future?

The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure at this point you're trolling.

"At this point"??!! You might want to check your detector for malfunctions, mine went nuts on his very first post.

I'm very optimistic about this release. It'll drag me back in after missing two editions of bloaty crap.

Just being sure.
I've barely played much of 7th, so this will most likely pull me back in.

Minijack wrote:
So what I want to know is when is the "40k8th Age of Butthurt" fan project firing up?

Send an email to the ninth-age. Maybe that way they'll stop the half-year long downfall of their forums.

 Melissia wrote:
The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.

Narrative play in Age of Sigmar is all player driven, it gives you a template to build up an army from a small warband (i.e. a single leader and two-three basic units) to a full on warhost based on your match results. I'm pretty sure it gives you character progression stuff but I might be wrong there. It gives you example battleplans but you're expected to make your own. It's pretty much tailor made for army builder challenges and is a nice simple system for those wanting to run campaigns.

 ncshooter426 wrote:
The stick has finally be removed from their collective asses

If only to beat our wallets with over the next 5 years...

I actually called it! Three grand alliances, Imperium, Chaos, Xenos... TBF, maybe it's just for navigation purposes on the website, though? No clear indicator it's gonna be in the rules.

Dudeface wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.

Again, this is not new.
For reference, see:
2nd Edition.
3rd Edition
4th Edition
5th Edition
6th Edition
7th Edition
and all the various codexes that were made irrelevant with rule changes.


This is not a brand new revelation. What IS a new revelation is free core rules for 8th.

No, it says "new edition" so it must be new.

Does anyone expect to not buy any new books for a new edition? If you only want to use existing stuff with your existing rules then do that, it's daft to assume you'll get a new edition and new units with new rules etc. magically appear in your existing book.

Even if the new rules were 2 years away under the old release mantra, you'd expect to get a new codex for new toys.

Read my post, I said I'm looking forward to buying it all again.

 Melissia wrote:
The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.

A revamp like this is a perfect opportunity to remove the most legacy of legacy ranges, that being the Sisters of Battle. Remember they annihilated Bretonnia and the Tomb Kings. Your faction still exists. Be grateful.

 Draccan wrote:
Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]

I have two words. Bull gak.

They have been steadily increasing for 20+ years. Where have you been?



Left to right:

1. Assault on Black Reach starter set (5th edition)
2. Space Marines vs Tyranid box set (3rd edition?)
3. Old metal marine (3rd edition)
4. Death Watch Marine (7th edition)
5. Space Marines vs Tyranid box set (3rd edition?)
6. Dark Vengeance Chaos Marine (7th edition)

Which one is the right and proper scale that is being "invalidated"? 3rd edition was invalidated with the 4th edition Tactical Squad box. That was "invalidated" with Death Watch. And so on.

Further:



Which Rhino is the proper scale?

There is much to complain about, I suppose. But this complaint is the silliest. The marines have not been steady state for 20 years, they have been INCREASING STEADILY for 20 years.

 Jambles wrote:
I actually called it! Three grand alliances, Imperium, Chaos, Xenos... TBF, maybe it's just for navigation purposes on the website, though? No clear indicator it's gonna be in the rules.

It's for ease of navigation...

Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.

Ho yeah mama! Opening the money barage soon

 Whirlwind wrote:


Erm... did you actually read what I said? Or are you just yelling because someone might be criticising GW? The quote you are referencing doesn't even mention matched play and formations as to whether they are illegal to use.

It's like you have focussed on matched play as the *only* way to play and that unless you want to be only competitive, ignoring background, different scenarios and so on then the rest doesn't matter. I have not once stated that if you want to go this 'minimalist' hobby route then it is not cheaper, but as I have previously stated that is not the only way to play and for some people much prefer a holistic wider gaming/hobby experience. Might I suggest that after such information passes through your visual cortex that you transfer such information to the neocortex rather than the archipallium in the future?

I'm going off your earlier posts and that one, so you can consider it an overall response to the points you were making in this thread.

Which were false anyway. It costs way more to cover everything in Warhammer 40,000 when you account for all the FW books.

And yes, I know what you're talking about with background narrative stuff. Guess what? That's in the Battletome for the army you buy. You don't need an AoS campaign book any more than you need a 40K campaign book.

You also wrote this:

"If you settle on just the core rules and the 40k compendium then yes it is more cost effective, but all these tomes do include special formations and rules etc. It's just the cost is drip fed more. There's now a larger proliferation in total rules in AoS than WFB ever had and the likelihood the same will happen in 40k. It's just that you don't need to use them all the time and the core rules are fairly basic at best."

The cost is not drip fed more. To play a Stormcast Eternals army in Matched Play, you need the Battletome and the Generals Handbook. You cannot buy anything else to add on to a pure Stormcast Eternal army, all you have access to for Matched Play is in those two books. To play a World Eaters army, you need the Chaos Space Marine Codex, the Traitor Legion codex and the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. You can get optional - and crucial - rules support from Imperial Armor 13 and other sources like Imperial Armor: Apocalypse.

Thommy H wrote:
The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.

Can do!

*falls backwards out of frame like an old-timey comic character*

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.

A revamp like this is a perfect opportunity to remove the most legacy of legacy ranges, that being the Sisters of Battle. Remember they annihilated Bretonnia and the Tomb Kings. Your faction still exists. Be grateful.

Or Bell Cawl turns his attention to his other 10,000 year old side project (diversifying the marine genome to accept a wider range of humans) and SOB are folded into their own space marine chapters to make femstartes just like some fans have wanted for decades (and others have abhored for equally as long).

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.

How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...

And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.

That's an unreasonable comparison. You are comparing 4-6 years (when was the last version released?) worth of material to less than two years of material for AoS. I did a rough tally of the costs over the *same* timescale and AoS is roughly 50% more expensive if you are into the background/campaign style of things.

As I've pointed out multiple times if the hobby for you is just rolling lots of dice and trying to smash the opponent with ultra combo then yes it can be cheaper, but if it is more than that then the cost is questionable. However there seems to be argument that 40k is really expensive with all the books etc but AoS style will be really cheap is a completely unrealistic comparison because you need to compare equally what you get across both regimes.

This just means I sit on unbuilt units and hold my breath until the next edition comes out

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 warboss wrote:

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.

About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.

Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.

Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.

Good to know you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. About the only thing you got right was the price cost and MAYBE the melting bit if you leave your models in a car in the sun at midday in the middle of summer while living in a tropical or sub-tropical region...

Or a reasonably warm English summers day. Finecast was a shoddy product foisted on the fanbase by a company aiming to extract money from the foolish. "Crisp" money.

8th edition has an air of the same thing, but people will dutifully queue up to buy, and then moan about, it.

Nah Ejak has a bad case of FW envy and was refering incorrectly about FW resin. As for the price in some cases FW are cheaper than GW, besides who really has more money to burn the person paying £40 for inferior mass produced plastics or paying £50 for a similar unit in nice crisp resin.

Thommy H wrote:
The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.

This. So much this.


I need to literally see tears here people! Come on!

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
GG games workshop, thanks to three edition in as many years,

3 in six years, but don't let facts ruin a good rant.