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2017/04/24 17:56:34
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Flamers of Tzeentch Warpflame attack is a range 18" 3 attack, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound D3 damage attack. (oddly no rules on GW's website)
So I suspect they're going to play around with them. Some may end up like Warp-fire projectors, others might get a more comprehensive change.
There are also probably some better examples out there.
So wounds against the unit, not model ?
Pretty much
By the 37 keys of Tzeentch,We open the way for our brothers,
By the 1000 whispers of Slaanesh we call to them,
By the 12 plagues of Nurgle we fell their enemies,
And by the mighty axe of Khorne we cut open the world for them!
- Ritual of Summoning, Recited by Amphion and Zethus Dark Sorcerers of the Deimos Peninsula,Kronos
2017/04/24 17:57:03
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Not-not-kenny wrote: The only thing I really don't like is that I'm not gonna be able to play the new edition for what, two months? Boy what a refreshing feeling.
Patience is a virtue.
At least they'll give us something each day until launch.
I do wonder how characters will be handled. Is look out sir still in? Can they still hide in units? I think those must be a given considering 40K has so much shooting.
With AoS, the lowliest characters tend to have 5 Wounds with a moderately okay save.
I doubt we'll see hiding in units, given that they mentioned heroes having auras when talking about keywords.
Can you describe what's the big dealio to characters having auras/keywords?
Are they like 40kUSR that can't be shared, unless the nearby units has same keyword?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2017/04/24 17:57:16
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
They deal multiple (random) wounds. Artillery pieces like Cannons have a high armor modifier (reduce save by 2) and deal high amounts of damage (d6 wounds). In essence, it's estimating that a cannon hit with a template would approximately cover 6 models, and then d6 is to determine how many get hurt. Much easier than fiddling with where to place a marker for 5 minutes and then arguing about what it covers once you scatter it and if it scattered the correct way.
Which was a fault of the rules and player's bad habits (roll the scatter near the target FFS!). Both could have been addressed and templates could have been kept. WMH's template resolution is nice (GW could have adopted a similar system, but that would require new templates) and tight.
But I digress, this is neither here nor there.
Templates while having a nice thematic feel to them, do slow the game down, and are one of the biggest points of disagreement during games. Seeing them go is nice. While the way that WHM do there Template weapons is nice, it still feels a bit antiquated in model games to have templates.
My gut reaction right now is the lack of them feels gimmicky (like using cards instead of dice in Malifaux), I know I'll come round to it, because as I've said their absence is not a dealbreaker but it just feels "wrong" to play without them.
2017/04/24 17:57:36
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Even WITH the 7ed overwatch, if orks strikes first after charging, that's really brutal.
Of course, the problem then is delivering the damned greenskins is still going to be a challenge.
How will the kff work?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/24 17:59:37
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2017/04/24 17:58:42
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
DrNo172000 wrote: I must be one of the rare individuals who keeps all of their receipts and really tight personal accounting books.
Also most modern businesses can email you a receipt from the register, no online ordering required. And nearly every single Point of Sale system can look up past transactions and reprint your receipt. If they can't then they are a gak run business and you should probably stop shopping there.
Does the offer apply to books you purchased from anywhere or just from GW directly?
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
2017/04/24 17:59:33
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Flamers of Tzeentch Warpflame attack is a range 18" 3 attack, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound D3 damage attack. (oddly no rules on GW's website)
So I suspect they're going to play around with them. Some may end up like Warp-fire projectors, others might get a more comprehensive change.
There are also probably some better examples out there.
So wounds against the unit, not model ?
Pretty much
Well that would certainly turn the Thousand Sons unit around in a hurry. A whole unit of flamers getting D3 wounds each against an enemy unit.
2017/04/24 18:02:20
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Flamers of Tzeentch Warpflame attack is a range 18" 3 attack, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound D3 damage attack. (oddly no rules on GW's website)
So I suspect they're going to play around with them. Some may end up like Warp-fire projectors, others might get a more comprehensive change.
There are also probably some better examples out there.
So wounds against the unit, not model ?
Pretty much
Well that would certainly turn the Thousand Sons unit around in a hurry. A whole unit of flamers getting D3 wounds each against an enemy unit.
I was just thinking that, Flamers hmmmm
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2017/04/24 18:02:41
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
As someone who has zero interest in either of them I am disappointed that they are going increasingly down a Human centric story line. With the non Humans being made to be spectators.
Thats a jump though, they have said Xenos will have a full book themselves, new factions will be released (assume some Xenos?) and suppliments and new codices for all.
I cant see the Xenos factions getting any less love - perhaps initially on launch since 40k was always built on IoM VS Chaos but once it ramps up later it'll be ok.
It isn't about the level of treatment in game and support they receive, but rather the threat is going to be about Chaos being the big threat. Never mind the Tyranids, the race that has already consumed countless galaxies and is now starting to enter the Milky way. Or forget about all Necron Tombworlds waking up, the very things that almost destroyed the galaxy billions of years ago, or the emergent Tau and their rapid technological developments that show up the Imperium, or Orks, one of the main reasons that Space Marines were developed to help reclaim the Galaxy.
No what the real threat is the small remnants of those who lost a war 10,000 years ago.
40K was always about the Imperium of man being attacked by a multitude of threats, not one being greater than the other. Elevating one above the others makes the rest feel as if they are bit players in the narrative. Gone from cast members of equal footing to cameo appearances.
I think you should probably not read *too* much into that comment. Every time GW has a big Chaos release, there's talk about "re-establishing Chaos as the main enemy to the Imperium."
And we have a lot of Chaos to come. We know that Nurgle stuff is coming soon -- with Slaanesh and Khorne likely to follow -- and their comments undoubtedly have a lot to do with advertising that. They'll start up the Eldar, Tyranid, etc. hype trains when it comes time to release those codices.
Maybe, and hopefully. It may be a throw away comment that they made, but seeing how the new galactic map looks and the way the new website has the factions who aren't either Chaos or Imperium lumped together it just feels like Chaos are all of a sudden going to be the biggest threat t the galaxy.
Time will tell however,
Still it going to be nice to field units of Genestealers and Hormagaunts again and not think I have wasted points. The new edition is sounding more like a rebalance to everyone in terms of game play.
Might even get to see Pyrovores used! Which will be a shock to everyone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/24 18:05:02
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
2017/04/24 18:05:07
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Formerly Wu wrote: I'm curious what this new FoC meta will mean for formations. We haven't heard anything much about them, have we?
A wide variety of FoCs with differing benefits, plus faction specific FoCs, sound an awful lot like a end-run around the concept of formations.
Personally I would love to see the confusing situation of "multiple FoCs, plus independent formations, PLUS giant meta-formation detachments" gone. AoS resolves that in its own way, but doesn't have FoCs either.
I don't believe they said anything about faction specif FoC's, They said Faction specif Command Point abilities, with 14 FoC's to choose from for everyone. The only rules attached to FoC's is the number of Command Points you get, so I can't see a need for faction specif FoC's anyway.
zamerion wrote: So, attributes will be similar or will change to AoS system?
They never realy said TBH, but with the removal of the 10 cap and useing a system like AoS uses for monsters? It sounds like at the very at least the new stat-lines will be influenced by AoS's system.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/24 18:07:29
2017/04/24 18:07:08
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
As someone who has zero interest in either of them I am disappointed that they are going increasingly down a Human centric story line. With the non Humans being made to be spectators.
Thats a jump though, they have said Xenos will have a full book themselves, new factions will be released (assume some Xenos?) and suppliments and new codices for all.
I cant see the Xenos factions getting any less love - perhaps initially on launch since 40k was always built on IoM VS Chaos but once it ramps up later it'll be ok.
It isn't about the level of treatment in game and support they receive, but rather the threat is going to be about Chaos being the big threat. Never mind the Tyranids, the race that has already consumed countless galaxies and is now starting to enter the Milky way. Or forget about all Necron Tombworlds waking up, the very things that almost destroyed the galaxy billions of years ago, or the emergent Tau and their rapid technological developments that show up the Imperium, or Orks, one of the main reasons that Space Marines were developed to help reclaim the Galaxy.
No what the real threat is the small remnants of those who lost a war 10,000 years ago.
40K was always about the Imperium of man being attacked by a multitude of threats, not one being greater than the other. Elevating one above the others makes the rest feel as if they are bit players in the narrative. Gone from cast members of equal footing to cameo appearances.
I think you should probably not read *too* much into that comment. Every time GW has a big Chaos release, there's talk about "re-establishing Chaos as the main enemy to the Imperium."
And we have a lot of Chaos to come. We know that Nurgle stuff is coming soon -- with Slaanesh and Khorne likely to follow -- and their comments undoubtedly have a lot to do with advertising that. They'll start up the Eldar, Tyranid, etc. hype trains when it comes time to release those codices.
Maybe, and hopefully. It may be a throw away comment that they made, but seeing how the new galactic map looks and the way the new website has the factions who aren't either Chaos or Imperium lumped together it just feels like Chaos are all of a sudden going to be the biggest threat t the galaxy.
Time will tell however,
As a Xenos player I really don't mind that Chaos takes centre stage as antagonist. Partly because they aren't just a threat to the Imperium.
"I like my coffee like I like my nights. Dark, endless and impossible to sleep through."
2017/04/24 18:07:15
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Flamers of Tzeentch Warpflame attack is a range 18" 3 attack, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound D3 damage attack. (oddly no rules on GW's website)
So I suspect they're going to play around with them. Some may end up like Warp-fire projectors, others might get a more comprehensive change.
There are also probably some better examples out there.
So wounds against the unit, not model ?
Pretty much
Well that would certainly turn the Thousand Sons unit around in a hurry. A whole unit of flamers getting D3 wounds each against an enemy unit.
I was just thinking that, Flamers hmmmm
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! MY STERNGUARD WITH THEIR COMBI-WEAPONS! MY KSONS! MY FLAMERS-IN-EVERY-UNIT! WHY, GAMES WORKSHOP?!!!??!!!
I was looking forward to 8th until I saw this. Curse you, Voodoo_Chile!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/24 18:07:50
Did they mention anything similar to Mortal Wounds?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I'm a little sad however because this is literally all stuff they had the ability to do just as easily a decade ago...
Absolutely. The comment that this was the "most playtested version of the rules... by a mile." was awesome, but also really jaw dropping because it really does confirm everyone's suspicions that for years and years they did little playtesting of the game.
I can just imagine some of the tournament guys playing with the studio team, and they finish up a game.
"Ok, that's probably about it right?"
"Yep, now we know how this gun works. Now, let's pretend the squad has a plasma gun and-"
"Why would they have a plasma gun? They've got a melta gun!"
"Erm... because we have to see how the plasma gun works...?"
"No, nononono, see right here the model's got a melta gun. Brother Frenjolf only uses melta guns, he likes the crisping smell of xenos flesh."
"Ok, swap him out for this other guy with the plasma gun in the case then."
"What, and break up squad 11? There'd be a mutiny!"
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2017/04/24 18:14:16
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Removing templates is kind of take-or-leave. They're a pretty fiddly, somewhat archaic way of resolving multiple wound weapons and can slow down a game, so in AoS they went to a system where a successful wound from a 'template' weapon just does, say, D6 wounds. But they have their own benefits too. I'm fine with removing them; just results in fewer little pieces I need to keep track of when playing.
I'm OK with it, but it has it's own set of problems. Bolt Action just added templates back in because people would cram their models into as small of a space as possible to try to get cover saves. No need to keep a unit spread out if you don't have to worry about templates and blasts.
2017/04/24 18:16:41
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
Draccan wrote: Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?
Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]
They are making them proper size. Just use your current ones instead if it bothers you that much.
Orks have an easy fix for this, they keep growing depending on how much fighting they do. So a group that's seen a lot of fighting regular Boyz may be equal in size as another group's nobz, and the constantly fighting nobs, maybe the equivalent of a laid back Warboss.
The Ork Boyz driving the original Ork Trukk model are smaller than grits! You can fit a single meganob in the back yet they can transport six in the game.
What's way more interesting to me is that in both recent Start Collecting Nurgle Demons, the Plaguebearer troops are supplied with a 1.25" base even though they are the exact same model as ones you buy separately that come with a 1" base. The large base helps in games of 40k and is a penalty in AoS.
Fighting crime in a future time!
2017/04/24 18:16:56
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Removing templates is kind of take-or-leave. They're a pretty fiddly, somewhat archaic way of resolving multiple wound weapons and can slow down a game, so in AoS they went to a system where a successful wound from a 'template' weapon just does, say, D6 wounds. But they have their own benefits too. I'm fine with removing them; just results in fewer little pieces I need to keep track of when playing.
I'm OK with it, but it has it's own set of problems. Bolt Action just added templates back in because people would cram their models into as small of a space as possible to try to get cover saves. No need to keep a unit spread out if you don't have to worry about templates and blasts.
But, spending time to move and spread out your models to mitigate template/blasts weapons is a time suck.
Adding the whole template resolutions being it's own time suck.
Going to this new no-template system ought to speed up that aspect of the game...
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2017/04/24 18:19:51
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
But, spending time to move and spread out your models to mitigate template/blasts weapons is a time suck.
Like that one tournament player with ~100 orks that used a 2" tool to make sure he had maximum spacing in case I used all of the blasts that I didn't take in my army...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/24 18:20:11
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2017/04/24 18:21:04
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
I picture Tom Kirby reading this stuff about "play testing" and "community feedback" and screaming at his monitor "YOU IDIOTS...they don't know what they want, YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT"
2017/04/24 18:24:21
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Flamers of Tzeentch Warpflame attack is a range 18" 3 attack, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound D3 damage attack. (oddly no rules on GW's website)
So I suspect they're going to play around with them. Some may end up like Warp-fire projectors, others might get a more comprehensive change.
There are also probably some better examples out there.
So wounds against the unit, not model ?
Pretty much
Well that would certainly turn the Thousand Sons unit around in a hurry. A whole unit of flamers getting D3 wounds each against an enemy unit.
I was just thinking that, Flamers hmmmm
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! MY STERNGUARD WITH THEIR COMBI-WEAPONS! MY KSONS! MY FLAMERS-IN-EVERY-UNIT! WHY, GAMES WORKSHOP?!!!??!!!
I was looking forward to 8th until I saw this. Curse you, Voodoo_Chile!
Why are you seeing this change to flamers as bad? Yes a single flamer will probably hit more than 3 guys but a unit of flamers hitting D3 each is much better than a unit firing flamer templates, your flamer spam is good and also in comparison to other changes in the game might be an excellent choice.
2017/04/24 18:30:54
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
Did they mention anything similar to Mortal Wounds?
Only in so far as heavy weapons will do multiple damage to vehicles.
Could extrapolate mortal wounds from that?
The impression I got from what was said is that heavy weapons will do multiple damage, period, and used the example of it against vehicles and monsters.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some heavy weapons get "Devastating Damage" or something like that, where on Wound rolls of 6s they can't be saved against.
2017/04/24 18:31:02
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
MikeRC97 wrote: I picture Tom Kirby reading this stuff about "play testing" and "community feedback" and screaming at his monitor "YOU IDIOTS...they don't know what they want, YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT"
My fear is he is sitting behind his monitor, "good, let them believe we listen to them so they really think those changes are what they wanted and not what we told them that they wanted"
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2017/04/24 18:32:46
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
They deal multiple (random) wounds. Artillery pieces like Cannons have a high armor modifier (reduce save by 2) and deal high amounts of damage (d6 wounds). In essence, it's estimating that a cannon hit with a template would approximately cover 6 models, and then d6 is to determine how many get hurt. Much easier than fiddling with where to place a marker for 5 minutes and then arguing about what it covers once you scatter it and if it scattered the correct way.
Which was a fault of the rules and player's bad habits (roll the scatter near the target FFS!). Both could have been addressed and templates could have been kept. WMH's template resolution is nice (GW could have adopted a similar system, but that would require new templates) and tight.
But I digress, this is neither here nor there.
You know your right Because I never target models against an intelligent opponent that , god forbid, uses cover like multiple levels of ruins. He would NEVER place his painstakingly and lovingly hobbied models in those ruins, so your totally right, I should easily, and always, be able to throw a large die near his models without worry of smashing said die into anything of personal value to them or losing it in some hard to retrieve, invisible spot. Man I have been playing wrong for years!
But, spending time to move and spread out your models to mitigate template/blasts weapons is a time suck.
Like that one tournament player with ~100 orks that used a 2" tool to make sure he had maximum spacing in case I used all of the blasts that I didn't take in my army...
Yeah... no more dick moves like that!
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2017/04/24 18:35:44
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; Q&A 17;15 Monday 24th
templates in general were the only reason for units not to stick base to base together to get all in cover
not they are gone, just makes the game less tactical as you don't have to make the decision in game what formation you chose to to be less effected by the enemy weapon
but than, this is what GW calls "make it easier to get into the game", less decisions need to made during the game so it is easier to start
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Because I never target models against an intelligent opponent that , god forbid, uses cover like multiple levels of ruins. He would NEVER place his painstakingly and lovingly hobbied models in those ruins, so your totally right, I should easily, and always, be able to throw a large die near his models without worry of smashing said die into anything of personal value to them or losing it in some hard to retrieve, invisible spot. Man I have been playing wrong for years! 
