Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase

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**Whirlwind**

Rayvon wrote:
Whirlwind wrote:

Well I assumed they might offer the same to the discounters but only at the discounted rate, rather than full rate; otherwise yeah I'd be down every store buying lots up...

You would need to know the release date as well though.......

I thought it was 8 weeks prior to the announcement? Otherwise couldn't I just go and buy the books now? I suppose they could take them down the day before the 8 week window hits but that will give away the exact release date?

I'm not worried about the release date though. Given we have rumours of when GW staff aren't allowed any holiday I can probably take a good guess and have a fair chance...

**Latro_**

What shocks me a bit is that they said they'v had the community heavily involved with playtesting and we'v had very few leaks!

some loyal geeks out there or some hardcore NDA's were signed.

**kronk**

kodos wrote:

so why just do it in the first place
a Land Raider being T10 with 2+ save that cannot be wounded by anything below S8 with ~6 Wounds gives the same result as the one that needed 15 wounds to compensate the can be wounded with a 6 rule

adding more rules than necessary to get the same result got us the bloated 7th edi in the first place

No idea, dude. That's how they wanted it, I guess. I don't disagree with you, but that's how it is.

**Jambles**

jhnbrg wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
jhnbrg wrote:

I think we can count on the orks getting nerfed to oblivion, it will keep the theme of them going...

I wouldn't count on that.

The "Warzones" in the Galaxy section for the new website call out Armageddon as being a site where neither the Orks or Astra Militarum are "prepared for the escalation that the war is about to experience".
Same with the Arsonist of Charadon launching a Waagh! into Maccragge.

I play AoS with my son and like the system plus I really think that 40k needs a complete makeover and have been very optimistic about everything i heard so far... but... the latest news all points at a number of factions will get the brettonia treatment to make room for all the new power armour.

I am convinced that since orks have been useless for so long the lack of sales will make them one of the first xenos to be silently swept under the carpet.

And I was really looking forwrd to getting back into 40k again.

I have serious, serious doubts that they would ever take Orks out of the 40k line. I could see some worries about some factions losing favour and falling into that situation, but ORKS? Come on now. They've been one of the most recognisable parts of the setting for 40k since the game came out...

**Not-not-kenny**

I might have misunderstood what Tyel said, guess it was the "not being able to wound anything" that threw me off.

**Kanluwen**

jhnbrg wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
jhnbrg wrote:

I think we can count on the orks getting nerfed to oblivion, it will keep the theme of them going...

I wouldn't count on that.

The "Warzones" in the Galaxy section for the new website call out Armageddon as being a site where neither the Orks or Astra Militarum are "prepared for the escalation that the war is about to experience".
Same with the Arsonist of Charadon launching a Waagh! into Maccragge.

I play AoS with my son and like the system plus I really think that 40k needs a complete makeover and have been very optimistic about everything i heard so far... but... the latest news all points at a number of factions will get the brettonia treatment to make room for all the new power armour.

I am convinced that since orks have been useless for so long the lack of sales will make them one of the first xenos to be silently swept under the carpet.

And I was really looking forwrd to getting back into 40k again.

If that's how you feel, that's how you feel I guess.

I really don't think there's going to be factions cut "to make room for all the new power armor" though. So far we know of the big guys(whether or not they'll be a new faction, I genuinely don't know--I still think they're going to end up being more of a "new unit") for the Imperium and Death Guard for Chaos.

**Alpharius**

Excellent summary!

Latro_ wrote:
40k Live FAQ Summary as best i could do it!

- No more armour on vehicles. Vehicles have a damage table as they take damage (wounds) stats decrease, every vehicle has its own damage table. e.g. Bolters could hurt tanks.
- Specfically mentioned everyone can hurt everyone else owing to S and T in ref to vehicles.
- 14 force org charts in core rules, if you meet you generate command points one use only. re-roll dice, interupt chargers going first mentioned. Hints these force orgs tottally replace formations.
- Limited to 1cmd point perphase. Certain force orgs give you more or less points. Gives example of big brigate detachment which gives you 9 cms points.
- Codexes not going away, there will be books with their own army command points
- Templates going away confirmed!
- Every army gets rules day one. 5 books, rules for all armies split across these. (low price point mentioned, a lot less than a codex)
- Expansions will still be part of the game planet strike etc will be re-written
- 'Every unit playtestest a lot' after 'will riptides be nerfed' quetion. Mention of massive community playtesting in USA
- Annual rules updates like AoS generals handbook taking community feedback
- 40k rules will have free PDF digital + printed store copies
- No specific tournament rules but guidelines in matched play
- Top goals in dev: 1. game that worked for all three ways to play. 2. More balanced 3. More accessible
- Background focussed more Imperium vs Chaos, acknowledges chaos has slipped and want to bring that back to the main focus of the game
- Wont confirm a release date 'this year'
- Two points system 'Power level' narative play each unit has a general power level value. Full granular common points ssytem for matched play.
- All factions still in, new website missing ones is just a narative thing.
- There will be new factions (hinted at on launch)
- Big monsters will also loose stats like vehicles as they take damage
- Stats no longer capped at 10!
- Multiple damage e.g. wounds is in on weapons
- Matched play 1000pts to anything
- Allies still in works different though. Keywords system very specific on factions gives an example a marine with spec rules prob wont pass onto allies.
- Mentions close combat is viable.
- Background will move on but not radically change. Some on launch which will 'blow people away'
- Everyday from now on till launch will be a warhammer community article on new 40k - kinda hints its coming out sooner rather than later
- If you'v bought a book within 8 weeks of launch, you can email customer services and get a voucher for value of the book bought

I added it to the OP, in case the OP (quoted there!) forgets to do it himself!

**Whirlwind**

kronk wrote:
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
kronk wrote:

Assume a blob squad of 50 guardsmen shooting at a Land Raider from within 12" with lasguns. Assume a Land Raider has 15 wounds and a 2+ save.

50 dudes = 100 shots
needing 4s to hit = 50 hits.
Needing 6's to glance = 8.33 wounds.
Needing 2's to save: 1.4 wounds.

You'll need 11 rounds to kill the land raider.

And in return I would suspect lascannons will do multiple wounds that scythe through Guard and he'll be removing most of a unit a turn.

I'm OK with that.

It's probably not likely to be viable though and that isolated. The real question is whether you take those guardsmen now and aim at the LR with only one wound left (and how many) or the Marines that are 'softer'.

**Dudeface**

kronk wrote:
kodos wrote:

so why just do it in the first place
a Land Raider being T10 with 2+ save that cannot be wounded by anything below S8 with ~6 Wounds gives the same result as the one that needed 15 wounds to compensate the can be wounded with a 6 rule

adding more rules than necessary to get the same result got us the bloated 7th edi in the first place

No idea, dude. That's how they wanted it, I guess. I don't disagree with you, but that's how it is.

My take is that they dont want a redundant unit, which I fully agree with. Your guardsmen may take 11 turns to kill a tank but the fact is they can, so they become easier to price and can't be made irrelevant by a single tank.

That adds no more rules than your example does, ironically it has less since you don't need the double toughness to strength ratio.

**Youn**

Wouldn't that make the dataslates very close to Stormcloud Attack. Where they have weapons that are listed like:

It has weapons with fixed to hits, Not all weapons on the vehicle are the same fixed to hit. Structure (wounds), a Toughness and a 3+ armor save.

**Liberal_Perturabo**

kronk wrote:
Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Wow. Removing armor values from vehicles is dumb. Like, insanely dumb. Tanks being immune to small arms fire was the whole bloody point for having it. Now a bunch of guardsmen with lasguns will potentially be able to take down a land raider given enough time.

Assume a blob squad of 50 guardsmen shooting at a Land Raider from within 12" with lasguns. Assume a Land Raider has 15 wounds and a 2+ save.

50 dudes = 100 shots
needing 4s to hit = 50 hits.
Needing 6's to glance = 8.33 wounds.
Needing 2's to save: 1.4 wounds.

You'll need 11 rounds to kill the land raider.

Yeah 50 guardsmen won't do the job. But what if it was 100 or more? What if they had BS modifiers or rerolls? I mean yeah thats a ton of models, so thats not really a good example. Bet we've got things like skitarii vanguard that have great BS and they make 3 shots. Does that justify a ton of them killing a LR? Of course it doesn't it's still a freaking LR. Taping a ton of rifles together does not make them into an anti-tank cannon, that's not how this works.

**Future War Cultist**

I'm so excited at what I'm reading I need to sit down.

**Whirlwind**

Latro_ wrote:
What shocks me a bit is that they said they'v had the community heavily involved with playtesting and we'v had very few leaks!

some loyal geeks out there or some hardcore NDA's were signed.

The other alternative is that if elements of Front line gaming (did I read that correctly) have been involved then blabbing about it will likely leave them never to get anywhere near GW ever again.

As it stands they have GWs ear so can get a game they think is better and also allows them to get a bigger wider audience. Why sacrifice that?

**Youn**

So, your saying your 5 point per model guards men at 500 points can defeat my 250 point land raider in 11 turns. If you take 1000 points of guards men they can do it in about 5.

Ok. I am good with that.

**Kanluwen**

Whirlwind wrote:
kronk wrote:
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
kronk wrote:

Assume a blob squad of 50 guardsmen shooting at a Land Raider from within 12" with lasguns. Assume a Land Raider has 15 wounds and a 2+ save.

50 dudes = 100 shots
needing 4s to hit = 50 hits.
Needing 6's to glance = 8.33 wounds.
Needing 2's to save: 1.4 wounds.

You'll need 11 rounds to kill the land raider.

And in return I would suspect lascannons will do multiple wounds that scythe through Guard and he'll be removing most of a unit a turn.

I'm OK with that.

It's probably not likely to be viable though and that isolated. The real question is whether you take those guardsmen now and aim at the LR with only one wound left (and how many) or the Marines that are 'softer'.

The other question is do you fire the lascannon in the Guard squad at the Land Raider and then fire the Lasguns at the Marines in cover, or just throw everything at the Land Raider?

Unless it's been FAQ'd, with the way they did Age of Sigmar? You could fire weapons at multiple units or engage in CC against multiple units at the same time.

**Latro_**

Hows this for community involvement, lets see if he replies again!

**kronk**

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:

Yeah 50 guardsmen won't do the job. But what if it was 100 or more? What if they had BS modifiers or rerolls? I mean yeah thats a ton of models, so thats not really a good example. Bet we've got things like skitarii vanguard that have great BS and they make 3 shots. Does that justify a ton of them killing a LR? Of course it doesn't it's still a freaking LR. Taping a ton of rifles together does not make them into an anti-tank cannon, that's not how this works.

I never said I liked it. It's not fluffy. It's actually silly. It's just not very likely.

**Not-not-kenny**

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:

Yeah 50 guardsmen won't do the job. But what if it was 100 or more? What if they had BS modifiers or rerolls? I mean yeah thats a ton of models, so thats not really a good example. Bet we've got things like skitarii vanguard that have great BS and they make 3 shots. Does that justify a ton of them killing a LR? Of course it doesn't it's still a freaking LR. Taping a ton of rifles together does not make them into an anti-tank cannon, that's not how this works.

No, but pour enough shots into it and eventually it might hit an exposed part or weaken an area enough to cause damage. Since Terminators are said to have armour like a tank should they also be completely immune to small-arms fire?

**kodos**

Mymearan wrote:

Movement is very important for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with templates and mean you certainly can't "push a blob straight forward".

Spacing of units
Covering other unit
Accounting for weapon range
Accounting for charges/close combat
Etc

All of which are a lot more interesting than making sure my little blue 2" measuring thingie doesn't touch more than one model at a time.

because you need a 6" measuring thingie to do it?
spacing and covering other units is also annoying if the 2" anti-template move is

**Slayer-Fan123**

I mean, the game really doesn't have anywhere to go but up. As long as I get my free rules I'm a happy camper.

I actually REALLY like there's 14 generic CADs. That's a ton of customization available from that alone, and I like that the Bolter can only improve at this point.

Also the flatout statement that FW is all good is great.

**Jambles**

Not-not-kenny wrote:
Liberal_Perturabo wrote:

Yeah 50 guardsmen won't do the job. But what if it was 100 or more? What if they had BS modifiers or rerolls? I mean yeah thats a ton of models, so thats not really a good example. Bet we've got things like skitarii vanguard that have great BS and they make 3 shots. Does that justify a ton of them killing a LR? Of course it doesn't it's still a freaking LR. Taping a ton of rifles together does not make them into an anti-tank cannon, that's not how this works.

No, but pour enough shots into it and eventually it might hit an exposed part or weaken an area enough to cause damage. Since Terminators are said to have armour like a tank should they also be completely immune to small-arms fire?

IIRC, Power armour is said to be the equivalent of tank armour - Terminator armour is supposed to be like starship plating!

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

Ah, well even if the Land Raider won't be making those scything wounds.. opposed Str/Tough means it'll laugh even harder at Guard shooting lasguns at it.

**Youn**

I don't understand how this will kill a deathstar?

Land Raider Redeemer ( Keywords: Imperium, Vehicle, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight, Land raider?)
-- Kaldor Draigo (Keywords: Imperium, Hero, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight, Terminator, Kaldor Draigo, Lord of War?)
-- 5 man Paladin squad (Keywords: Imperium, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight, Terminator, Elite, Paladins?)
-- 2 Librarians (Keywords: Imperium, Hero, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight, Terminator, Psycher, Librarian?)

Pretty sure we just had a discussion about it taking 50 guardsman like 11 turns to kill a land raider. Once, you load that squad inside by the end of turn 3 they will be in melee. That is going to be one tough unit to burn down.

**kronk**

We don't yet know what lascannons, melta, or even rough rider lances will do to it, yet.

"Holy gak, Rough Riders are back, baby!" - Kronk

**kodos**

Youn wrote:
I don't understand how this will kill a deathstar?

because you won't get the command points bonus rules
and they will make them stronger than the death star

or the screamerstar will need to buy its re-rolls via command points
so than only 9 per game.....

**rollawaythestone**

Draigo and some paladins are an acceptable Death Star. It's the ridiculousness created by allied combos that they are talking about.

However, Draigo will no longer be protected "inside" the unit. He will be targetable in some way just like in AoS. It's possible he might get a look out sir or some such, though.

**Bobthehero**

Mhmm

The more I heard about this the less excited I am. Losing templates and having close combat being made stronger, nope.

**kronk**

rollawaythestone wrote:
Draigo and some paladins are an acceptable Death Star. It's the ridiculousness created by allied combos that they are talking about.

However, Draigo will no longer be protected "inside" the unit. He will be targetable in some way just like in AoS. It's possible he might get a look out sir or some such, though.

I think it's abominations like the Bark Bark Star that they're trying to curb.

**Liberal_Perturabo**

kronk wrote:
Liberal_Perturabo wrote:

Yeah 50 guardsmen won't do the job. But what if it was 100 or more? What if they had BS modifiers or rerolls? I mean yeah thats a ton of models, so thats not really a good example. Bet we've got things like skitarii vanguard that have great BS and they make 3 shots. Does that justify a ton of them killing a LR? Of course it doesn't it's still a freaking LR. Taping a ton of rifles together does not make them into an anti-tank cannon, that's not how this works.

I never said I liked it. It's not fluffy. It's actually silly. It's just not very likely.

Ok, I see you point.

**Earth127**

Breaking an NDA is probably one of the biggest don'ts out there.
Bols,FTN, beasts of war stopped talking rumours some time ago you could probably pin a sort of time table on that and figure out when Gw started playtesting. It's right about the time everyone quiet. Wich if my quick research is right is somewhere around the magnus bin video. That puts us it around early october. Fingers crossed they've been playtesting between october and March (adepticon).