Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase

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**Daedalus81**

jullevi wrote:
If Land Raider has 14 wounds (just a guess), is it possible to destroy it outright with one lucky melta gun shot?

Well the article does say land raiders and knights will have dozens of wounds...so like..24 or more. I bet meltas will do double damage under a certain range or something like that with big rend. And ceramite armor will ignore that rend.

**Requizen**

Daedalus81 wrote:
jullevi wrote:
If Land Raider has 14 wounds (just a guess), is it possible to destroy it outright with one lucky melta gun shot?

Well the article does say land raiders and knights will have dozens of wounds...so like..24 or more. I bet meltas will do double damage under a certain range or something like that with big rend. And ceramite armor will ignore that rend.

Yeah I think that sounds right. Maybe Rend -2 Damage 2; Damage 4 against Vehicles if within 6".

**Azreal13**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I know

That's the point I was making

I considered you were making a point rather than asking an honest question, but there didn't appear to be a point to make.

**Latro_**

It is quite interesting (realism aside) how infantry will now be pretty effective against everything but on the flip side with armour mods they'll be more vulnerable.

I'd go out on a limb and say its gonna be orks and nids time to shine esp with no templates on top of all that. They care little about armour mods and can pack a lot of bodies.

that said if thy have playtested it perhaps grunts will be adjusted to go up in points or marines etc go down in pts

**Daedalus81**

Latro_ wrote:
It is quite interesting (realism aside) how infantry will now be pretty effective against everything but on the flip side with armour mods they'll be more vulnerable.

I'd go out on a limb and say its gonna be orks and nids time to shine esp with no templates on top of all that. They care little about armour mods and can pack a lot of bodies.

that said if thy have playtested it perhaps grunts will be adjusted to go up in points or marines etc go down in pts

But then those units will also be facing more losses from the morale checks. It's going to be fun to explore in any case.

**SeanDrake**

jullevi wrote:
I am excited about #new40k, although not quite as excited as yesterday. Stat line reveal was slightly disappointing. I expected a radical change similar to AoS, but I hope that new stats were result of playtesters' feedback instead of lack of guts to make big changes. I certainly wouln't have minded if the stats were just Move/Wounds/Leadership/Save. I still wonder why they didn't put Attack values into weapon stats. That would have been nice way to make melee weapons more unique (I assume shooting weapons still have number of attacks listed on them).

I am actually happy that Vehicles now follow the same statlines as anyone else. Dreadnought and Terminators still appear to be very resilient to small arms fire. I expect lasgun to hit Dread on 4's, wound on 6's and have no save modifier, meaning that 1 in 36 shots should cause a wound. With 50 lasgun shots, that is 25% chance of doing no damage at all, and 83% chance of doing 0 or 1 wound.

Speaking of vehicles, I wonder how they are going to deal with melta weapons and other stuff that should be able to wreck them. If Land Raider has 14 wounds (just a guess), is it possible to destroy it outright with one lucky melta gun shot?

If I knew more about current 40k and release was a bit further away, I would have fun guessing at new rules. Choppas have -1 Rend at first round of combat? Orks get +1 to hit in close combat if unit has 20 or more models? Gauss weapons cause a mortal wound on a 6 to hit? All Psykers get access to 2 basic Psychic Powers: offensive power that inflicts D3 mortal wounds on one enemy unit within 18" and defensive power that gives +1 to armour saves for one friendly unit within 18"?

At a guess not going full AoS was probably down to playtesting as from my admittedly limited experience the AoS system is at it's weakest when involving shooting rather than multi unit melee dogpiles and cheesy model placement "tactics"(my personal theory why still no elves is they literally break the game if given the new style stats and upgrades). My biggest concern is we see a swing too far back the other way from 7th to the whole main battle tank drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword stupidity. Melee and shooting should be equally effective overall with it being a tactical choice on which to do at any time.

The shooting into and out of combat bollocks only exists in AoS because they ran out of page count to include anything else, if they tried that with 40k chances are playtesting went for example Tau drop drone unit into tactical squad tying it up and fire warriors/suits/pretty much anything erases tac squad. Shooting out of combat is just a bad rule full stop.

It still looks like weight of fire will be king overall compared to quality of fire, but the weapon profiles tomorrow should show more on that.

**Backfire**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I'm excited for the new stat line when it comes to MC, Walkers and Vehicles. Hopefully they'll all prove tougher to kill. MC should see more wounds on their profile, and the like of Dreads seem less likely to be one-shotted, or worse immobilised in their deployment zone.

Fixed To Hit rolls don't bother me none. There wasn't an awful lot of variety previously after all, so this arguably just removes the chart.

Yes MC's will get more wounds, I expect Carnifex to have similar stats to Dread, except maybe with 4+ Save.
Down side of this is that small arms fire won't do much to MC's.

I would have liked WS chart to remain, if it just had more substance in it. It was just never very meaningful - you always hit on 4+, or 3+ if you had a high WS. It was pretty pointless.
Too bad that BS is now capped at 5. It was cool when some super heroes like Phoenix Lords had BS7 and so on even if it seldom came to play. Though, undoubtely some units will have rerolls etc.

**Rippy**

Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Breaking news:
Pete Foley confirmed that Destroyer weapons will be gone in 8th Edition: https://twitter.com/GeekJockPete/status/856833455568629761

Great News! unlike all these tank losers gaking up this thread.

Always hated D weapons in normal 40k.

**SeanDrake**

Azreal13 wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I know

That's the point I was making

I considered you were making a point rather than asking an honest question, but there didn't appear to be a point to make.

Well the tournaments in question have had some let's call them controversial FAQ's over the years regarding the treatment of different armies not always being equal.

**ERJAK**

SeanDrake wrote:
jullevi wrote:
I am excited about #new40k, although not quite as excited as yesterday. Stat line reveal was slightly disappointing. I expected a radical change similar to AoS, but I hope that new stats were result of playtesters' feedback instead of lack of guts to make big changes. I certainly wouln't have minded if the stats were just Move/Wounds/Leadership/Save. I still wonder why they didn't put Attack values into weapon stats. That would have been nice way to make melee weapons more unique (I assume shooting weapons still have number of attacks listed on them).

I am actually happy that Vehicles now follow the same statlines as anyone else. Dreadnought and Terminators still appear to be very resilient to small arms fire. I expect lasgun to hit Dread on 4's, wound on 6's and have no save modifier, meaning that 1 in 36 shots should cause a wound. With 50 lasgun shots, that is 25% chance of doing no damage at all, and 83% chance of doing 0 or 1 wound.

Speaking of vehicles, I wonder how they are going to deal with melta weapons and other stuff that should be able to wreck them. If Land Raider has 14 wounds (just a guess), is it possible to destroy it outright with one lucky melta gun shot?

If I knew more about current 40k and release was a bit further away, I would have fun guessing at new rules. Choppas have -1 Rend at first round of combat? Orks get +1 to hit in close combat if unit has 20 or more models? Gauss weapons cause a mortal wound on a 6 to hit? All Psykers get access to 2 basic Psychic Powers: offensive power that inflicts D3 mortal wounds on one enemy unit within 18" and defensive power that gives +1 to armour saves for one friendly unit within 18"?

At a guess not going full AoS was probably down to playtesting as from my admittedly limited experience the AoS system is at it's weakest when involving shooting rather than multi unit melee dogpiles and cheesy model placement "tactics"(my personal theory why still no elves is they literally break the game if given the new style stats and upgrades). My biggest concern is we see a swing too far back the other way from 7th to the whole main battle tank drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword stupidity. Melee and shooting should be equally effective overall with it being a tactical choice on which to do at any time.

The shooting into and out of combat bollocks only exists in AoS because they ran out of page count to include anything else, if they tried that with 40k chances are playtesting went for example Tau drop drone unit into tactical squad tying it up and fire warriors/suits/pretty much anything erases tac squad. Shooting out of combat is just a bad rule full stop.

It still looks like weight of fire will be king overall compared to quality of fire, but the weapon profiles tomorrow should show more on that.

God it is impossible to get through anything you barf out. You don't know how aos works, stop talking about it.

**Backfire**

kronk wrote:
insaniak wrote:

Warhammer Community wrote:Don’t worry though – stuff still dies quickly, ...

So... not very close, then.

Disagree! If more than 25% of both players's armies still live, it was a dull affair!

Seconded! As a 40K player, what I most want to do is to blow stuff up. With that I've gotta accept that my own stuff can also blow up, otherwise I would be a terrible hypocrite.
What I do have a problem is if my own stuff blows up, and other guy has some broken combo/marysue anime monster which results to his stuff not blowing up, or even not dying at all.

**Hanskrampf**

Well, and there goes my excitement. Marines still with T4 and W1. Expanding characteristics beyond 10 would have given much more freedom for difference.

**Galas**

If normal marines had 2 wounds... how will be the Nu-Marines with 2 wounds special?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Just for fun - comment above is coincidence, and this is not a dig at that poster.

**Rippy**

KiloFiX wrote:
Foley answered some more questions on twitter regarding 8th today:

No D weapons.

No shooting into or out of combat (unlike AoS).

Fixed to hit (like AoS, unlike SWA).

Has Strength vs Toughness to Wound (unlike AoS).

No random Initiative turn (unlike AoS).

Core rules are about 14 pages not including narrative, matched play, battle forged stuff.

Sounds perfect.

**changemod**

Hanskrampf wrote:
Well, and there goes my excitement. Marines still with T4 and W1. Expanding characteristics beyond 10 would have given much more freedom for difference.

It's for working Superheavies into the system from the start without the awkwardly tacked on feel they currently have. See also multiple wounds instead of D weapons, and everyone can potentually damage anything which means you can apply chip damage to that imperial knight barrelling down on your lines to better cope with it's existence.

**Nah Man Pichu**

ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
jullevi wrote:
I am excited about #new40k, although not quite as excited as yesterday. Stat line reveal was slightly disappointing. I expected a radical change similar to AoS, but I hope that new stats were result of playtesters' feedback instead of lack of guts to make big changes. I certainly wouln't have minded if the stats were just Move/Wounds/Leadership/Save. I still wonder why they didn't put Attack values into weapon stats. That would have been nice way to make melee weapons more unique (I assume shooting weapons still have number of attacks listed on them).

I am actually happy that Vehicles now follow the same statlines as anyone else. Dreadnought and Terminators still appear to be very resilient to small arms fire. I expect lasgun to hit Dread on 4's, wound on 6's and have no save modifier, meaning that 1 in 36 shots should cause a wound. With 50 lasgun shots, that is 25% chance of doing no damage at all, and 83% chance of doing 0 or 1 wound.

Speaking of vehicles, I wonder how they are going to deal with melta weapons and other stuff that should be able to wreck them. If Land Raider has 14 wounds (just a guess), is it possible to destroy it outright with one lucky melta gun shot?

If I knew more about current 40k and release was a bit further away, I would have fun guessing at new rules. Choppas have -1 Rend at first round of combat? Orks get +1 to hit in close combat if unit has 20 or more models? Gauss weapons cause a mortal wound on a 6 to hit? All Psykers get access to 2 basic Psychic Powers: offensive power that inflicts D3 mortal wounds on one enemy unit within 18" and defensive power that gives +1 to armour saves for one friendly unit within 18"?

At a guess not going full AoS was probably down to playtesting as from my admittedly limited experience the AoS system is at it's weakest when involving shooting rather than multi unit melee dogpiles and cheesy model placement "tactics"(my personal theory why still no elves is they literally break the game if given the new style stats and upgrades). My biggest concern is we see a swing too far back the other way from 7th to the whole main battle tank drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword stupidity. Melee and shooting should be equally effective overall with it being a tactical choice on which to do at any time.

The shooting into and out of combat bollocks only exists in AoS because they ran out of page count to include anything else, if they tried that with 40k chances are playtesting went for example Tau drop drone unit into tactical squad tying it up and fire warriors/suits/pretty much anything erases tac squad. Shooting out of combat is just a bad rule full stop.

It still looks like weight of fire will be king overall compared to quality of fire, but the weapon profiles tomorrow should show more on that.

God it is impossible to get through anything you barf out. You don't know how aos works, stop talking about it.

Geez dude, calm down. There's literally a million ways you could have said something with the same point but less vitriol.

No one's going to make you be nice to strangers on the internet, but a little kindness goes a long way.

**SeanDrake**

Hanskrampf wrote:
Well, and there goes my excitement. Marines still with T4 and W1. Expanding characteristics beyond 10 would have given much more freedom for difference.

That's what gullimarines are for t5 and 2w with higher leadership and better equipment, if completely replacing minimarines expect either a higher natural to hit roll and strength or equipment that acheives the same.

**Gamgee**

Trying to imagine how much wounds my Ta'unar will have under this system haha.

**Future War Cultist**

I'm glad D weapons are going. They just throw the balance out of the window. I'm wondering if mortal wounds will be brought in to replace them or if they'll just give them regular weapon stats cranked up to 11.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

At least 3 *nods sagely*

**Nah Man Pichu**

SeanDrake wrote:
Hanskrampf wrote:
Well, and there goes my excitement. Marines still with T4 and W1. Expanding characteristics beyond 10 would have given much more freedom for difference.

That's what gullimarines are for t5 and 2w with higher leadership and better equipment, if completely replacing minimarines expect either a higher natural to hit roll and strength or equipment that acheives the same.

Maybe Guilliman's authorized the reformation of the legions, so most of the "regular" Space Marines are a little more expendable than they were before?

No basis in fact here, just idle speculation.

**BrookM**

I do hope that the Reaper chainsword is still godly though.

**Galas**

Gamgee wrote:
Trying to imagine how much wounds my Ta'unar will have under this system haha.

I'll be honest here. The thing that has me most thrilled about all of this, is what they will do with my Vespids... oh my Vespids, how I love you. Please, be at least viable! I don't ask for more!

**streetsamurai**

Lorek wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
to be honest, my comment was deliberately provocative since I'm tired of the ridiculous argument that everyone who doesn't like AOS hasn't played it.

This is a violation of Rule #1. If you're tired of hearing something here on Dakka Dakka, maybe get out of the house and go to a park or something.

He no it wasn't. You do realise that being provocative and being insulting/impolite are two completely distinct things ?

Congrats on such an absurd banning.

As for 8th edition:

The bad
Removing templates
12 pages rules is worrysome
Everything wounding everything
Vehicule and MC being the same (absurd that two thins that are so different use exactly the same rule)

THe ugly

The apparent removal of facing from vehicule. Such a shame that one of the most tactical aspect of the game is removed
The probable streamlining of the psychic phase. Really liked how it went in 7th, and it will be a shame if it went back to a boring leadership test or something like that.
Removal of AV. As someone said, tanks are now similar to what they are in a RTS, and not like they are in steel panther (which was the case before). And for someone who grew up playing steel panther, it is a huge minus

The good

Commande point: this has the potential to make this edition a classic, and could make the game a lot more interesting and tactical than AOS: my first wargame, depite the streamlining
Modifiers on to hit rolls (about time)
Cover affecting saves and not being a distinct roll (about time too)
Adding movement
Keeping strenght and toughness.

Overall, I'm pretty optimistic about this edition now. Sure, not everything wen how I would like, but there's still a few idea that are really interesting, and they didn't import the worst aspect of AOS (for example: shooting into and out of combat).

**SeanDrake**

Nah Man Pichu wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
jullevi wrote:
I am excited about #new40k, although not quite as excited as yesterday. Stat line reveal was slightly disappointing. I expected a radical change similar to AoS, but I hope that new stats were result of playtesters' feedback instead of lack of guts to make big changes. I certainly wouln't have minded if the stats were just Move/Wounds/Leadership/Save. I still wonder why they didn't put Attack values into weapon stats. That would have been nice way to make melee weapons more unique (I assume shooting weapons still have number of attacks listed on them).

I am actually happy that Vehicles now follow the same statlines as anyone else. Dreadnought and Terminators still appear to be very resilient to small arms fire. I expect lasgun to hit Dread on 4's, wound on 6's and have no save modifier, meaning that 1 in 36 shots should cause a wound. With 50 lasgun shots, that is 25% chance of doing no damage at all, and 83% chance of doing 0 or 1 wound.

Speaking of vehicles, I wonder how they are going to deal with melta weapons and other stuff that should be able to wreck them. If Land Raider has 14 wounds (just a guess), is it possible to destroy it outright with one lucky melta gun shot?

If I knew more about current 40k and release was a bit further away, I would have fun guessing at new rules. Choppas have -1 Rend at first round of combat? Orks get +1 to hit in close combat if unit has 20 or more models? Gauss weapons cause a mortal wound on a 6 to hit? All Psykers get access to 2 basic Psychic Powers: offensive power that inflicts D3 mortal wounds on one enemy unit within 18" and defensive power that gives +1 to armour saves for one friendly unit within 18"?

At a guess not going full AoS was probably down to playtesting as from my admittedly limited experience the AoS system is at it's weakest when involving shooting rather than multi unit melee dogpiles and cheesy model placement "tactics"(my personal theory why still no elves is they literally break the game if given the new style stats and upgrades). My biggest concern is we see a swing too far back the other way from 7th to the whole main battle tank drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword stupidity. Melee and shooting should be equally effective overall with it being a tactical choice on which to do at any time.

The shooting into and out of combat bollocks only exists in AoS because they ran out of page count to include anything else, if they tried that with 40k chances are playtesting went for example Tau drop drone unit into tactical squad tying it up and fire warriors/suits/pretty much anything erases tac squad. Shooting out of combat is just a bad rule full stop.

It still looks like weight of fire will be king overall compared to quality of fire, but the weapon profiles tomorrow should show more on that.

God it is impossible to get through anything you barf out. You don't know how aos works, stop talking about it.

Geez dude, calm down. There's literally a million ways you could have said something with the same point but less vitriol.

No one's going to make you be nice to strangers on the internet, but a little kindness goes a long way.

Nahh Erjak starts at that level in his normal posts but if you tarnish AoS's honour also expect bile, condescension and no explaination of why someone is wrong I would guess he spends a lot of time going purple

**kronk**

BrookM wrote:
I do hope that the Reaper chainsword is still godly though.

A close combat weapon on a Knight should pack quite a punch.

**insaniak**

Red Corsair wrote:

Have you played 40k in the last decade? I ask because every gamer I know or talk to have no issue with things dying, the problem is when the other guys army doesn't so much die because of stupid rule interactions.

Anecdotal, obviously, but one of the more frequent complaints I've come across over the years, and one of the biggest issues for me personally, is that the ability to kill things too quickly renders objectives largely meaningless, and too often your big, impressive units that you spent so much time assembling and painting stay on the table for all of three and a half minutes before going back into the case.

I would have preferred the new edition to have made it harder to kill things and concentrate more on objectives, suppression and unit synergy.

**SJM**

So my Squiggoth counts as Gorkanaut maybe useful? To the work station!!

**cuda1179**

SJM wrote:
So my Squiggoth counts as Gorkanaut maybe useful? To the work station!!

Apparently they are including all Forgeworld units in the free rules, so you can run your Squiggoth as a Squiggoth.