Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase

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**Kriswall**

warboss wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Really not understanding the big deal with mortal wounds. I would assume things that utilize the mechanic are rare and expensive. I mean so far look at smite, it targets the closest thing lol, you need to successfully cast it, not have it unbound/dispelled THEN it's only d3 wounds the majority of the time... WOW, super broken lol. It looks like archane bolt from AoS, I would guess everyone can use smite by defalt, there is probably a power the same as mystic shield that everyone can use too.

Can someone explain what mortal wounds actually do in AOS? Do they just completely ignore saves? Cause a dX number of wounds? Is it an always "on" ability or does it need to be activated on a roll of a 6 like a stomp? All of the above? None of the above? I'm getting bits and pieces along with speculation and a bit of conflicting info from various posts on the past two pages but nothing all in one spot.

Mortal wounds are just normal wounds where you don't get any sort of armor save. They come from a variety of sources. There is no standard situation where a wound becomes a mortal wound. It's always tied to wargear/abilities/special rules. Most armies/factions in AoS have one or two ways of generating mortal wounds, but it's generally uncommon.

Examples...
1. Arcane Bolt is a spell that does d3 mortal wounds.
2. Several different units do mortal wounds instead of regular wounds on a to wound roll of 6 or more (after modifiers).
3. etc...

**jreilly89**

This looks so damn good

**Jambles**

The real big thing I'm hoping they clarify is whether or not we'll be rolling for our powers. I'd muchly prefer to pick them like wargear.

**Brian888**

Note that unlike 40K, AoS doesn't have a Perils of the Warp equivalent, so we don't know how that will impact the psychic stuff in 40K (although Perils may be as simple as "If you roll double 1s, take a mortal wound").

**nintura**

Brian888 wrote:
warboss wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Really not understanding the big deal with mortal wounds. I would assume things that utilize the mechanic are rare and expensive. I mean so far look at smite, it targets the closest thing lol, you need to successfully cast it, not have it unbound/dispelled THEN it's only d3 wounds the majority of the time... WOW, super broken lol. It looks like archane bolt from AoS, I would guess everyone can use smite by defalt, there is probably a power the same as mystic shield that everyone can use too.

Can someone explain what mortal wounds actually do in AOS? Do they just completely ignore saves? Cause a dX number of wounds? Is it an always "on" ability or does it need to be activated on a roll of a 6 like a stomp? All of the above? None of the above? I'm getting bits and pieces along with speculation and a bit of conflicting info from various posts on the past two pages but nothing all in one spot.

So, everything in AoS has a save value (for example, a unit may have a 4+ save value). Rend can reduce that save (an attack from a -1 rend weapon reduces that save, effectively, to a 5+). Mortal wounds bypass the save completely; they're automatically applied to the model. HOWEVER, some models (such as Plaguebearers) have a "save-after-the-save" that they can take to cancel mortal wounds or wounds they otherwise would have suffered from failing their save roll. A Plaguebearer, for example, cancels a wound it suffers, whether it's a mortal wound or just a wound from a failed normal save, on a straight 5+.

So FnP

**Brian888**

Jambles wrote:
The real big thing I'm hoping they clarify is whether or not we'll be rolling for our powers. I'd muchly prefer to pick them like wargear.

Me too. Hopefully they take a page from AoS here, which lets you pick or roll (your choice).

**Formosa**

Galas wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Hi warhammer tv. I know it's too late now but this system is essentially the same as the old system, but with a set value you roll above rather than beneath. That system was changed to the current warp charge system, which was bad to say the least (incidentally that was also from a prior fantasy system that didn't work properly). To my point, you will come across a lot of issues as you carry this new system on, I urge your designers to look at the prior systems and see why they didn't work, the best "magic" phase that has been made so far was the 8th fantasy one, This "new" system will work mechanically but it will have the same problems the ones from 3rd, 4th and 5th had.

Hey Tony - that's good feedback and we shall indeed pass it on

At least i got a reply

8th edition fantasy magic phase was the best? Hmmm... I assume that if for best you value a overpowered destruction values and all of that...

the powers were the problem, not the mechanics, the two things are clearly different, the phase worked quite well and the rules around it were also good, better than any previous system, GW just messed up the abilities.

**Breng77**

Formosa wrote:
Hi warhammer tv. I know it's too late now but this system is essentially the same as the old system, but with a set value you roll above rather than beneath. That system was changed to the current warp charge system, which was bad to say the least (incidentally that was also from a prior fantasy system that didn't work properly). To my point, you will come across a lot of issues as you carry this new system on, I urge your designers to look at the prior systems and see why they didn't work, the best "magic" phase that has been made so far was the 8th fantasy one, This "new" system will work mechanically but it will have the same problems the ones from 3rd, 4th and 5th had.

Hey Tony - that's good feedback and we shall indeed pass it on

At least i got a reply

I'm not seeing how it is at all the same as the old system. Old system all powers needed you to roll below the same number (your leadership), new system all powers require you to roll above a given number. So Stronger powers could have very low probability to cast, and weaker powers could be very easy/reliable to cast. For example in old 40k an LD 10 psyker cast every power ~92% of the time. In the new system Smite the power we know goes off on a 5+ which means it casts 83% of the time. A stronger power might cast on a 10+ which means it would cast only 16% of the time. So in the old editions 3-6 you ended up with a lot of basically meaningless rolls (formalities that rarely failed), now some the rolls are much less reliable and thus have more meaning. It also means you might take say pyromancy powers that cast on a 5+ instead of invisibility that casts on an 11.

**lessthanjeff**

Formosa wrote:
Hi warhammer tv. I know it's too late now but this system is essentially the same as the old system, but with a set value you roll above rather than beneath. That system was changed to the current warp charge system, which was bad to say the least (incidentally that was also from a prior fantasy system that didn't work properly). To my point, you will come across a lot of issues as you carry this new system on, I urge your designers to look at the prior systems and see why they didn't work, the best "magic" phase that has been made so far was the 8th fantasy one, This "new" system will work mechanically but it will have the same problems the ones from 3rd, 4th and 5th had.

Hey Tony - that's good feedback and we shall indeed pass it on

At least i got a reply

I acutally like the Age of Sigmar casting system more than fantasy 8th's. One of the things I hated with 40k's casting was how time consuming it became just to decide how many dice to cast or deny with. The bigger the pools and the more complex the situations (like tzeentch daemons with siphon magic) the longer it took. I like the balance more of just adjusting the sum needed on two dice rather than having to calculate varying stats on the fly. Now the process is just choosing what powers you want to get off and it will go much faster.

**Brian888**

nintura wrote:
Brian888 wrote:
warboss wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Really not understanding the big deal with mortal wounds. I would assume things that utilize the mechanic are rare and expensive. I mean so far look at smite, it targets the closest thing lol, you need to successfully cast it, not have it unbound/dispelled THEN it's only d3 wounds the majority of the time... WOW, super broken lol. It looks like archane bolt from AoS, I would guess everyone can use smite by defalt, there is probably a power the same as mystic shield that everyone can use too.

Can someone explain what mortal wounds actually do in AOS? Do they just completely ignore saves? Cause a dX number of wounds? Is it an always "on" ability or does it need to be activated on a roll of a 6 like a stomp? All of the above? None of the above? I'm getting bits and pieces along with speculation and a bit of conflicting info from various posts on the past two pages but nothing all in one spot.

So, everything in AoS has a save value (for example, a unit may have a 4+ save value). Rend can reduce that save (an attack from a -1 rend weapon reduces that save, effectively, to a 5+). Mortal wounds bypass the save completely; they're automatically applied to the model. HOWEVER, some models (such as Plaguebearers) have a "save-after-the-save" that they can take to cancel mortal wounds or wounds they otherwise would have suffered from failing their save roll. A Plaguebearer, for example, cancels a wound it suffers, whether it's a mortal wound or just a wound from a failed normal save, on a straight 5+.

So FnP

Basically, although IIRC FnP can be canceled by certain attacks. The save-after-the-save in AoS generally works against everything.

**Bottle**

Jambles wrote:
The real big thing I'm hoping they clarify is whether or not we'll be rolling for our powers. I'd muchly prefer to pick them like wargear.

If they follow AoS then psykers will each have a unique spell to use on their dataslate. The lore spells will be able to be chosen, or, rolled for (I.e. Matched play will likely adopt choosing).

**CthuluIsSpy**

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
Galas wrote:
Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers.

So... Tau Psykers confirmed?

hah - yes and what about Necrons too?

Tau will probably get Nicassar (those are the psychic bears, right?), and Necrons probably won't get psykers per se, but they will most likely get stuff that craps on psykers, like they usually do. Or maybe C'tan and Crypteks will work like psykers, but they have rules that distinguish them from witches.
At least, I hope that's how it is with necrons, and they aren't given access to the warp. That's kind of a big deal with them thematically, how they are purely of the material realm.

**Brian888**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
Galas wrote:
Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers.

So... Tau Psykers confirmed?

hah - yes and what about Necrons too?

Tau will probably get Nicassar (those are the psychic bears, right?), and Necrons probably won't get psykers per se, but they will most likely get stuff that craps on psykers, like they usually do.
At least, I hope that's how it is with necrons, and they aren't given access to the warp. That's kind of a big deal with them thematically, how they are purely of the material realm.

Maybe the C'Tan will have TOTALLY NOT PSYCHIC POWERS, JUST ADVANCED REALITY MANIPULATION...that work exactly like psychic powers.

**Future War Cultist**

AoS style physic powers and mortal wounds confirmed? Happy days!

I do like that double power for rolling a 10. Very thematic! And not to brag, but they've done exactly what I've proposed in the proposed rules thread several times. Same name for it and everything.

Dakka needs a smug face emoticon.

**kestral**

Not a bad system, seems pretty clean. Now they just need to balance the powers and points.

**Daedalus81**

Brian888 wrote:

So, everything in AoS has a save value (for example, a unit may have a 4+ save value). Rend can reduce that save (an attack from a -1 rend weapon reduces that save, effectively, to a 5+). Mortal wounds bypass the save completely; they're automatically applied to the model. HOWEVER, some models (such as Plaguebearers) have a "save-after-the-save" that they can take to cancel mortal wounds or wounds they otherwise would have suffered from failing their save roll. A Plaguebearer, for example, cancels a wound it suffers, whether it's a mortal wound or just a wound from a failed normal save, on a straight 5+.

It should also be noted that AoS allows you any number of saves. My chaos warriors have an armor save, a mortal wound save, and a bubble save from a warshrine.

**Breng77**

Brian888 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
Galas wrote:
Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers.

So... Tau Psykers confirmed?

hah - yes and what about Necrons too?

Tau will probably get Nicassar (those are the psychic bears, right?), and Necrons probably won't get psykers per se, but they will most likely get stuff that craps on psykers, like they usually do.
At least, I hope that's how it is with necrons, and they aren't given access to the warp. That's kind of a big deal with them thematically, how they are purely of the material realm.

Maybe the C'Tan will have TOTALLY NOT PSYCHIC POWERS, JUST ADVANCED REALITY MANIPULATION...that work exactly like psychic powers.

maybe they will work like psychic powers but with no perils because they aren't using the warp.

**whembly**

Breng77 wrote:
Brian888 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
Galas wrote:
Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers.

So... Tau Psykers confirmed?

hah - yes and what about Necrons too?

Tau will probably get Nicassar (those are the psychic bears, right?), and Necrons probably won't get psykers per se, but they will most likely get stuff that craps on psykers, like they usually do.
At least, I hope that's how it is with necrons, and they aren't given access to the warp. That's kind of a big deal with them thematically, how they are purely of the material realm.

Maybe the C'Tan will have TOTALLY NOT PSYCHIC POWERS, JUST ADVANCED REALITY MANIPULATION...that work exactly like psychic powers.

maybe they will work like psychic powers but with no perils because they aren't using the warp.

Just don't call it "perils of the warp"... just call it "perils of reality"!

**Desubot**

Red Corsair wrote:
Really not understanding the big deal with mortal wounds. I would assume things that utilize the mechanic are rare and expensive. I mean so far look at smite, it targets the closest thing lol, you need to successfully cast it, not have it unbound/dispelled THEN it's only d3 wounds the majority of the time... WOW, super broken lol. It looks like archane bolt from AoS, I would guess everyone can use smite by defalt, there is probably a power the same as mystic shield that everyone can use too.

I mean we just played through 20 years where 95% of the units in the game had no save from AP2 and suddenly this mechanic is cancer?!

I like it, it allows for more devastating attacks while not even coming CLOSE to D or stomps now, so hearing the comparisons is laughable. A mortal wound or 2 here and there is nothing compared to removed from play. Remember lots of wounds are a thing now, a marine character could have 5 wounds on average.

Oh and another laugh at the guy saying wraith guard with D-scythes wioll do d6 mortal wounds each... LOL. You have no idea what ANY elday unit of weapon does yet and porting the stuff over from 7th with no alteration is silly.

From the sounds of it even the marine mooks will start getting more wounds

i can only imagine the rest of the roster for all factions. d3 wounds might not really do anything.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Future War Cultist wrote:
AoS style physic powers and mortal wounds confirmed? Happy days!

I do like that double power for rolling a 10. Very thematic! And not to brag, but they've done exactly what I've proposed in the proposed rules thread several times. Same name for it and everything.

Dakka needs a smug face emoticon.

I'm not going to go into the merits of AOS and argue about is it good or bad? That's neither here nor there.

None the less, I would be slightly concerned if a lot of AOS elements were being adopted for 40k.

Why? Because Fantasy is Fantasy, and 40K is 40K, and that distinction between them, that has been there for years, should remain.

Hopefully, it will still remain. Hope that makes sense.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

I wonder if Shadow of the Warp for Nids will still be the old "roll 3d6 for a power." Perhaps now you pick the lowest 2 instead of having the result of all 3?

**Future War Cultist**

What edition was it that had customisable c'tan shards with powers you could pick yourself? They could bring that back.

Actually this is a good chance to make those not pyshic powers work differently to actual pyshic powers.

**Galas**

40k was Fantasy in space... I remember my Chaos Lord in Fantasy killing Empire lords with a Plasma Pistol.

Do_I_Not_Like_That, I have seen that you are a lore freak like me, and I'll give you an advice that I apply to myself after seeing how Blizzard killed the Lore of Warcraft, a universe I loved:

Enjoy the bits of lore that you like, and ignore the ones you not like. They will crap all about their own lore for whatever reasons they feel worth it, so don't create anguish for yourself when the own owners of the Lore don't care about it.

**Smellingsalts**

If you believe 40K should be different from Fantasy, fair enough. They are two different styles of game. But they haven't always been that way. I remember early versions being almost exactly the same, and if I remember correctly, one of the fantast siege books even suggested a scenario with Fantasy vs. 40K.

**Requizen**

Future War Cultist wrote:
What edition was it that had customisable c'tan shards with powers you could pick yourself? They could bring that back.

Actually this is a good chance to make those not pyshic powers work differently to actual pyshic powers.

The edition previous to this one (5e codex, 5th/6th edition). I liked that quite a bit as well, but honestly I like the idea of them having a similar power table they have now but with the ability to pick from it instead of getting random powers.

**Daedalus81**

I take back my previous comment about the rule of one for psychic spells. Perils might be a sufficient limiter to spam, but we'll have to see.

I wonder if there will still be general psychic powers to pick from (outside of Smite).

**Hragged**

From GW in the Facebook comments:

Every faction gets a psychic phase. But only those with psykers can use it. NOTE: definitely not Necrons, Dark Eldar or Tau...

Edit: they confirm the Psychic phase comes after the Movement phase too.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Galas wrote:
40k was Fantasy in space... I remember my Chaos Lord in Fantasy killing Empire lords with a Plasma Pistol.

Do_I_Not_Like_That, I have seen that you are a lore freak like me, and I'll give you an advice that I apply to myself after seeing how Blizzard killed the Lore of Warcraft, a universe I loved:

Enjoy the bits of lore that you like, and ignore the ones you not like. They will crap all about their own lore for whatever reasons they feel worth it, so don't create anguish for yourself when the own owners of the Lore don't care about it.

Good advice.

**minisnatcher**

Brian888 wrote:
nintura wrote:
Brian888 wrote:
warboss wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Really not understanding the big deal with mortal wounds. I would assume things that utilize the mechanic are rare and expensive. I mean so far look at smite, it targets the closest thing lol, you need to successfully cast it, not have it unbound/dispelled THEN it's only d3 wounds the majority of the time... WOW, super broken lol. It looks like archane bolt from AoS, I would guess everyone can use smite by defalt, there is probably a power the same as mystic shield that everyone can use too.

Can someone explain what mortal wounds actually do in AOS? Do they just completely ignore saves? Cause a dX number of wounds? Is it an always "on" ability or does it need to be activated on a roll of a 6 like a stomp? All of the above? None of the above? I'm getting bits and pieces along with speculation and a bit of conflicting info from various posts on the past two pages but nothing all in one spot.

So, everything in AoS has a save value (for example, a unit may have a 4+ save value). Rend can reduce that save (an attack from a -1 rend weapon reduces that save, effectively, to a 5+). Mortal wounds bypass the save completely; they're automatically applied to the model. HOWEVER, some models (such as Plaguebearers) have a "save-after-the-save" that they can take to cancel mortal wounds or wounds they otherwise would have suffered from failing their save roll. A Plaguebearer, for example, cancels a wound it suffers, whether it's a mortal wound or just a wound from a failed normal save, on a straight 5+.

So FnP

Basically, although IIRC FnP can be canceled by certain attacks. The save-after-the-save in AoS generally works against everything.

another difference is that you take the save after save against wounds, so if you would suffer a single hit that causes three mortal wounds, you would need to make 3 save after saves... So it is worse then feel no pain or a 5++ as in AOS there are a lot of multiwound attacks and I am sure this new version of 40k will have too.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

What time is the next Q&A?