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 cuda1179 wrote:
yeah, that's the thing, if a Dreadnought has 8 wounds I'd suspect that a Land Raider has about 11, probably with a 2+ save. (total speculation at this point)

If that's anywhere close, it means it would take the shooting of an entire IG army to take out a landraider. if that every does happen, just thank the other guy for not shooting at the rest of your army that is now about to destroy him.

I mean, really, how often do people think this will ever happen outside of a megabattle? I'm betting you can go 5 normal games between even seeing one wound being lost on a land raider from lasguns/boltguns.

yes people are looking at the situation with tunnel vision, omg las guns can kill my land raider, I'm quitting! what if the whole of the IG army does not have LOS or range?
now that everything is shooting at the land raider lets take a look at what they are not shooting at 2x rhinos with 10 death company in, those 5 newly improved terminators you have just deep struck in.

the games being thoroughly play tested every one needs to stop panicking and play with the new rules forget your math hammer preformed on fragments of information you need the whole game and rules before you can judge this new edition!
have faith guys my big concern is formations, how many of each unit can we take.

the ork heavy support is bloated there is far to many ork heavy support units we need special formations to take more heavy support than normal such as the dread mob, also how many dreads will be in 1 squad how many killakanz will we be aloud to take in 1 squad, right now its 6 kanz to 1 squad, but the current codex will be invalid which leaves me guessing at how many models I can take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have suggested a poll in the polling section asking about peoples GW purchase patterns, basically I want to know who will be buying models before and after 8th is dropped.

there seems to be two types of people those who are building a army ready for 8th (despite not knowing what units they can include in there list) and those who refuse to purchase any GW models until they KNOW what they can take in a list.

1.yes I am still buying models
2.no I am not buying until I know what I can take in my list.

I also think that the lack of sales would put pressure on GW to release the new edition giving us a better time scale on when 8th is coming.

ps. if a mod reads this could they go make that pole a reality and not a suggestion.

 Megaknob wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
yeah, that's the thing, if a Dreadnought has 8 wounds I'd suspect that a Land Raider has about 11, probably with a 2+ save. (total speculation at this point)

If that's anywhere close, it means it would take the shooting of an entire IG army to take out a landraider. if that every does happen, just thank the other guy for not shooting at the rest of your army that is now about to destroy him.

I mean, really, how often do people think this will ever happen outside of a megabattle? I'm betting you can go 5 normal games between even seeing one wound being lost on a land raider from lasguns/boltguns.

yes people are looking at the situation with tunnel vision, omg las guns can kill my land raider, I'm quitting! what if the whole of the IG army does not have LOS or range?
now that everything is shooting at the land raider lets take a look at what they are not shooting at 2x rhinos with 10 death company in, those 5 newly improved terminators you have just deep struck in.

the games being thoroughly play tested every one needs to stop panicking and play with the new rules forget your math hammer preformed on fragments of information you need the whole game and rules before you can judge this new edition!
have faith guys my big concern is formations, how many of each unit can we take.

the ork heavy support is bloated there is far to many ork heavy support units we need special formations to take more heavy support than normal such as the dread mob, also how many dreads will be in 1 squad how many killakanz will we be aloud to take in 1 squad, right now its 6 kanz to 1 squad, but the current codex will be invalid which leaves me guessing at how many models I can take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have suggested a poll in the polling section asking about peoples GW purchase patterns, basically I want to know who will be buying models before and after 8th is dropped.

there seems to be two types of people those who are building a army ready for 8th (despite not knowing what units they can include in there list) and those who refuse to purchase any GW models until they KNOW what they can take in a list.

1.yes I am still buying models
2.no I am not buying until I know what I can take in my list.

I also think that the lack of sales would put pressure on GW to release the new edition giving us a better time scale on when 8th is coming.

ps. if a mod reads this could they go make that pole a reality and not a suggestion.

I think the one force org we know about was 1 HQ, 1 Troop and a fethload of Heavy Support slots with 14 force orgs to choose from I don't think you have to worry about what you can and can't take.

 Mymearan wrote:

 Megaknob wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
yeah, that's the thing, if a Dreadnought has 8 wounds I'd suspect that a Land Raider has about 11, probably with a 2+ save. (total speculation at this point)

If that's anywhere close, it means it would take the shooting of an entire IG army to take out a landraider. if that every does happen, just thank the other guy for not shooting at the rest of your army that is now about to destroy him.

I mean, really, how often do people think this will ever happen outside of a megabattle? I'm betting you can go 5 normal games between even seeing one wound being lost on a land raider from lasguns/boltguns.

yes people are looking at the situation with tunnel vision, omg las guns can kill my land raider, I'm quitting! what if the whole of the IG army does not have LOS or range?
now that everything is shooting at the land raider lets take a look at what they are not shooting at 2x rhinos with 10 death company in, those 5 newly improved terminators you have just deep struck in.

the games being thoroughly play tested every one needs to stop panicking and play with the new rules forget your math hammer preformed on fragments of information you need the whole game and rules before you can judge this new edition!
have faith guys my big concern is formations, how many of each unit can we take.

the ork heavy support is bloated there is far to many ork heavy support units we need special formations to take more heavy support than normal such as the dread mob, also how many dreads will be in 1 squad how many killakanz will we be aloud to take in 1 squad, right now its 6 kanz to 1 squad, but the current codex will be invalid which leaves me guessing at how many models I can take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have suggested a poll in the polling section asking about peoples GW purchase patterns, basically I want to know who will be buying models before and after 8th is dropped.

there seems to be two types of people those who are building a army ready for 8th (despite not knowing what units they can include in there list) and those who refuse to purchase any GW models until they KNOW what they can take in a list.

1.yes I am still buying models
2.no I am not buying until I know what I can take in my list.

I also think that the lack of sales would put pressure on GW to release the new edition giving us a better time scale on when 8th is coming.

ps. if a mod reads this could they go make that pole a reality and not a suggestion.

I think the one force org we know about was 1 HQ, 1 Troop and a fethload of Heavy Support slots with 14 force orgs to choose from I don't think you have to worry about what you can and can't take.

what do we think a feth load is do you have it in black and white? this would be really helpful and would allow me to get a army ready for 8th dropping.

They should make special weapons except from Flamer fairly pricey. The things are rare. Why the hell does your army have 40 grav guns?

 Azreal13 wrote:
My guess (and that's all it is, but I've been batting a decent average so far) is that vehicles (other than walkers) will get attacks "on the charge" but if they don't wipe out their target, will have to sit there and endure free strikes without being able to retaliate in later rounds, and nobody will be pinned in combat with a vehicle, so they'll be free to walk away, or the vehicle has to drive away suffering further free strikes.

Vehicles in AOS have attacks on the normal line - eg Gyrocopters can use their rotor blades. Can't see why 40k would be different.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Space Marines have been GW's number 1 selling unit for years, so a 40K starter set was always going to have a marine of some kind in it.

I'm sure somebody will correct me, but if memory serves, these are the top GW selling products:

Space Marine Tactical squad
Skull White*
Chaos black*
Devlan mud*

* or its new name version

Guys, for those who missed my earlier post,

Schedule for UK Games Expo Seminars now include GW's presentation titled 'The New Warhammer 40,000'

I would say this all but confirms a preorder date over the weekend 3-4th Jun ready for the release on 17th

http://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk/game.php?id=SEM2980

As i previously said the final 7th edition tourney is being held that weekend at Warhammer World

SL

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Space Marines have been GW's number 1 selling unit for years, so a 40K starter set was always going to have a marine of some kind in it.

I'm sure somebody will correct me, but if memory serves, these are the top GW selling products:

Space Marine Tactical squad
Skull White*
Chaos black*
Devlan mud*

* or its new name version

Any reason why GW can't release 2 starter sets? Why not a marine VS chaos marine one and also an Ork VS Nid one (or similar)? I always thought it odd that if someone wants to get into the game for the first time, they're kinda forced into one of the starter armies (I know there are other ways to start, but a kid going into the shop for the first time just wants the "Warhammer game box please")

 Whittlesey40k wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Space Marines have been GW's number 1 selling unit for years, so a 40K starter set was always going to have a marine of some kind in it.

I'm sure somebody will correct me, but if memory serves, these are the top GW selling products:

Space Marine Tactical squad
Skull White*
Chaos black*
Devlan mud*

* or its new name version

Any reason why GW can't release 2 starter sets? Why not a marine VS chaos marine one and also an Ork VS Nid one (or similar)? I always thought it odd that if someone wants to get into the game for the first time, they're kinda forced into one of the starter armies (I know there are other ways to start, but a kid going into the shop for the first time just wants the "Warhammer game box please")

Because it might sell as well or better. They are stuck in a Marine centric loop.

Tbh with the Start Collecting boxes I find it odd that GW doesn't just make starter sets that are 2 different SC! boxes, some dice, 2 of the whippy range rulers and a A5 paperback rule book along with cardboard sheets with limited rules for the miniatures.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
They should make special weapons except from Flamer fairly pricey. The things are rare. Why the hell does your army have 40 grav guns?

This is my guess too. If one las canon is enough to take down a Dread it should be expensive to be taken.

They have plenty of leeway to do Warzone boxes down the line (Warzones seemingly being 40K's Realms analogue). They could be the 'new character a side plus regular kits' like Shield of Baal.

 Whittlesey40k wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Space Marines have been GW's number 1 selling unit for years, so a 40K starter set was always going to have a marine of some kind in it.

I'm sure somebody will correct me, but if memory serves, these are the top GW selling products:

Space Marine Tactical squad
Skull White*
Chaos black*
Devlan mud*

* or its new name version

Any reason why GW can't release 2 starter sets? Why not a marine VS chaos marine one and also an Ork VS Nid one (or similar)? I always thought it odd that if someone wants to get into the game for the first time, they're kinda forced into one of the starter armies (I know there are other ways to start, but a kid going into the shop for the first time just wants the "Warhammer game box please")

Different faction starter sets would be a good idea in my book, but at the end of the day, GW will go where the money is, which is Space Marines.

In the past, I always used to go 50/50 on a starter set with somebody else, so there is money to be saved there with friends or gaming clubs.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Tbh with the Start Collecting boxes I find it odd that GW doesn't just make starter sets that are 2 different SC! boxes, some dice, 2 of the whippy range rulers and a A5 paperback rule book along with cardboard sheets with limited rules for the miniatures.

GeeDubs likes to put push fit models in to the starter boxed sets, I guess so 2 people who have never played before can buy it and get playing with unpainted models pretty much the same day.

This is also why I doubt we'll see multiple starter sets with different armies, it requires GW to cast up new versions of certain models specifically for the starter sets. That's not something they want to have to do frequently or for multiple armies.

 Vryce wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Well, in the Q&A earlier this week, the dev's talked about the conflict between the IoM & Chaos taking more of a center stage on the galactic scale, so a starter set with SM/CSM makes sense.

*dreams longingly of the alternate reality where "Imperium v Chaos starter" means Sisters of Battle fighting a Dark Mechanicus cult*

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Tbh with the Start Collecting boxes I find it odd that GW doesn't just make starter sets that are 2 different SC! boxes, some dice, 2 of the whippy range rulers and a A5 paperback rule book along with cardboard sheets with limited rules for the miniatures.

This. I can't understand why GW are still doing this one thing the same way when they've made so many other rational changes on the business side of late. Starters should be bundle deals - two SC boxes and the "starter pack" with the play aids and mini-rulebook. You could even have the chance to buy bigger bundles with some regular boxes and blisters added in at a discount. Then if they want to do the big boxes still, do them like the Stormclaw one, tied into an ongoing or historical campaign event.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

-snip-

Different faction starter sets would be a good idea in my book, but at the end of the day, GW will go where the money is, which is Space Marines.

In the past, I always used to go 50/50 on a starter set with somebody else, so there is money to be saved there with friends or gaming clubs.

But to an extent that's a self-fulfilling prophesy - Marines are popular so they get the most releases, the most marketing, and a guaranteed spot in every starter box, so they naturally become more popular since slightly less than half of the people who start the game with the box and stick with it will end up collecting at least one Marine army, so they get more attention, so they become more popular, etc etc etc. They're never not going to be popular, posthuman genetically-engineered giant walking man-tanks with chainsaw-swords and grenade machineguns are just plain cool, but GW could make it easier to get into the other factions if they wanted to.

Am I looking forward to 8ed? Absolutely. My first game of 7ed, I was up against an AM gunline with a Land Raider attack. Immobilised on turn one. If my Daemonic save hadn't discounted it and eneabled my Terminators to make their charge, it'd have been a hella disappointing introduction. Generally doing away with a lot of lucky instant killshots (and toning down some horrific guns that really don't need luck) will make it a lot more forgiving.

Am I buying anything before 8ed? Yep, a box of CSMs and Berzerkers (they're antique sets likely to soon get excellent replacements but combining their parts with MKIV looks awesome) to replenish my bits box and build some more infantry so I've got a big pool of loadouts to choose from. Already got a set of FW Lascannons lying around waiting to be built up. Never got round to them, because, you know. Autocannons FTW. Also just got some Deathwing to get the bits for making (un)holy Word Bearers then trade the rest with a friend - again, I want to have a wide range of Terminator loadouts to choose from.

On the subject of one shot, one kill, anti-tank guns

If you know your WW2 history, then you'll know that the German 88mm was the terror of Allied tanks, especially Sherman tanks.

The British 17 pounder and the 6 pounder with APDS, were also capable of knocking out tanks with one shot.

There is nothing wrong with 8th, if it goes down this road, of having land raiders taken out with one shot.

As always, game balance needs to be struck, so your powerful anti-tank weapons should come at a cost or be restricted in number as to who can take them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Vryce wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Well, in the Q&A earlier this week, the dev's talked about the conflict between the IoM & Chaos taking more of a center stage on the galactic scale, so a starter set with SM/CSM makes sense.

*dreams longingly of the alternate reality where "Imperium v Chaos starter" means Sisters of Battle fighting a Dark Mechanicus cult*

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Tbh with the Start Collecting boxes I find it odd that GW doesn't just make starter sets that are 2 different SC! boxes, some dice, 2 of the whippy range rulers and a A5 paperback rule book along with cardboard sheets with limited rules for the miniatures.

This. I can't understand why GW are still doing this one thing the same way when they've made so many other rational changes on the business side of late. Starters should be bundle deals - two SC boxes and the "starter pack" with the play aids and mini-rulebook. You could even have the chance to buy bigger bundles with some regular boxes and blisters added in at a discount. Then if they want to do the big boxes still, do them like the Stormclaw one, tied into an ongoing or historical campaign event.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

-snip-

Different faction starter sets would be a good idea in my book, but at the end of the day, GW will go where the money is, which is Space Marines.

In the past, I always used to go 50/50 on a starter set with somebody else, so there is money to be saved there with friends or gaming clubs.

But to an extent that's a self-fulfilling prophesy - Marines are popular so they get the most releases, the most marketing, and a guaranteed spot in every starter box, so they naturally become more popular since slightly less than half of the people who start the game with the box and stick with it will end up collecting at least one Marine army, so they get more attention, so they become more popular, etc etc etc. They're never not going to be popular, posthuman genetically-engineered giant walking man-tanks with chainsaw-swords and grenade machineguns are just plain cool, but GW could make it easier to get into the other factions if they wanted to.

I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, but you're overlooking the fact that the main demographic of 40k is teenage boys.

No offence to Sisters of Battle players, but I can speak from experience on this one and say that the teenage boy will always go for the Space Marine or the tau mega battle suit of doom, every time.

Space Marines are popular and iconic in the game. That's no disrespect to Orks or Tyranids or whoever else, that's just the way it is and why the focus is on Space Marines.

At one time, I'd say that 90% of dakka members have probably bought a Space Marine tactical squad at one point.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Tbh with the Start Collecting boxes I find it odd that GW doesn't just make starter sets that are 2 different SC! boxes, some dice, 2 of the whippy range rulers and a A5 paperback rule book along with cardboard sheets with limited rules for the miniatures.

GeeDubs likes to put push fit models in to the starter boxed sets, I guess so 2 people who have never played before can buy it and get playing with unpainted models pretty much the same day.

The Age of Sigmar starter set isn't push-fit though, nor have any of the recent boxed games.

About one shot killing vehicles; how come it was acceptable for a tank to be taken out in one lucky hit whilst monsters required substained fire? If a lucky shot could hit the fuel tanks and blow the whole thing up, how come a lucky shot by the same weapon couldn't just blow the creatures head clean off? I'm just realising now how stupid it all used to be. Things are finally looking up.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

The Age of Sigmar starter set isn't push-fit though, nor have any of the recent boxed games.

It's not push to fit, but they're not proper multiparts, they're easy-to-assemble models specifically made from the starter.

Caederes wrote:

I have no idea how anyone could think a Toughness 7 model with 8 Wounds and a 3+ save is less durable than an AV 12/12/10 vehicle with 3 Hull Points that is susceptible to the vehicle damage chart, especially when the Rend system means a Dreadnought will likely laugh off a lot of the old AP3 weapons.

I think it's less durable because it can now be damaged from the front by S4 weapons, and because those three Hull Points being replaced by 8 wounds goes up against heavy weapons that now do three times as much damage as they used to.

The only thing that is a boost from the current rules is the addition of the save... but the save mods on most heavy weapons will remove that at worst or render it negligible at best.


Well, that and the removal of the one-shot-kill... which was never anywhere near as big an issue in the current game as having glancing hits strip your Hull Points.



I'll be happy to be proven wrong, and have Dreadnoughts actually be worth putting on the table again. But right now, I'm not seeing it.

 insaniak wrote:

Caederes wrote:

I have no idea how anyone could think a Toughness 7 model with 8 Wounds and a 3+ save is less durable than an AV 12/12/10 vehicle with 3 Hull Points that is susceptible to the vehicle damage chart, especially when the Rend system means a Dreadnought will likely laugh off a lot of the old AP3 weapons.

I think it's less durable because it can now be damaged from the front by S4 weapons, and because those three Hull Points being replaced by 8 wounds goes up against heavy weapons that now do three times as much damage as they used to.

The only thing that is a boost from the current rules is the addition of the save... but the save mods on most heavy weapons will remove that at worst or render it negligible at best.


Well, that and the removal of the one-shot-kill... which was never anywhere near as big an issue in the current game as having glancing hits strip your Hull Points.



I'll be happy to be proven wrong, and have Dreadnoughts actually be worth putting on the table again. But right now, I'm not seeing it.

Negligible? Against -2 weapons (like krak missiles) you have a 5+ save, which is huge! 50% more hits needed for the same result!

 Crimson wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

The Age of Sigmar starter set isn't push-fit though, nor have any of the recent boxed games.

It's not push to fit, but they're not proper multiparts, they're easy-to-assemble models specifically made from the starter.

Also it lacks special weapons and it only has 3 of the 5 minimum retributors that a unit consists of.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
About one shot killing vehicles; how come it was acceptable for a tank to be taken out in one lucky hit whilst monsters required substained fire? If a lucky shot could hit the fuel tanks and blow the whole thing up, how come a lucky shot by the same weapon couldn't just blow the creatures head clean off? I'm just realising now how stupid it all used to be. Things are finally looking up.

S10 shots instant killed Daemon Princes. most monsters needed to have there toughness reduced.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Tbh with the Start Collecting boxes I find it odd that GW doesn't just make starter sets that are 2 different SC! boxes, some dice, 2 of the whippy range rulers and a A5 paperback rule book along with cardboard sheets with limited rules for the miniatures.

Pretty simple: The starter set exclusive, unique and heavily detailed models both make people that own a large chunks of the respective army and wouldn't be interested in getting more generic boxes interested in buying the starter box, while people picking up the starter box for the first time or because they are interested in the cool and unique models (the latter being people that already play 40k) and then bite the bait that a a cool looking bait that a 600 or so army is and buy more boxes to turn it into legal 1000/1500/2000 points sized army.

Spoletta wrote:

Negligible? Against -2 weapons (like krak missiles) you have a 5+ save, which is huge! 50% more hits needed for the same result!

Sure. Except that krak missile is also now wounding on a 3+ instead of glancing on a 4.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
About one shot killing vehicles; how come it was acceptable for a tank to be taken out in one lucky hit whilst monsters required substained fire? If a lucky shot could hit the fuel tanks and blow the whole thing up, how come a lucky shot by the same weapon couldn't just blow the creatures head clean off?

Every abstraction has its silly points, but back in the day the MC abstraction (where they did not suffer same disadvantages than Vehicles) was seen acceptable, as they were vulnerable to small arms fire, Poison etc. and generally did not have many wounds. 5 Wound MC's were rare and very few, if any, carried tank-like firepower. Also less armies had them.

Whole thing broke down when they began to add monsters to armies which didn't and shouldn't have them (Grey Knights, Tau) and MC's started to become increasingly more gross. In days of yore, most common MC was Carnifex, which had 3+ Save, 4 Wounds and no Inv Save - hardly very gamebreaking!

 insaniak wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Negligible? Against -2 weapons (like krak missiles) you have a 5+ save, which is huge! 50% more hits needed for the same result!

Sure. Except that krak missile is also now wounding on a 3+ instead of glancing on a 4.

You also need 8 of them to inflict unsaved wounds.
Assuming 3+ to hit and that each krak missile only inflicts 1 damage, you will need on average 27 shots to down a dred.

Its a bit trickier to calculate damage against vehicles using the current rules, but according to mathhammer, assuming 3+ to hit, you only need 9 shots to strip 3 hull points, which is what a dred currently has, iirc.
Furthermore, whilst its a 4 to glance, its also a 5+ to pen, so you have a 33% chance of inflicting a debuff or even one hit killing the vehicle.

I wish they would get back to making Battleforce boxes for armies. Have it include the core rules and all the data sheets for the included units. There isn't a real need for a starter set anymore.

Since the game appears to be built around 1000 pts as a start, the Start Collecting boxes wouldn't work as starter sets. I wouldn't mind seeing individual starter set forces for some of the armies.

I really wish this starter was not SM v. CSM. I get why they have SM, it is the flagship army, but CSM doesn't need to be in there if SM are. They could have done IG v. CSM and still been Imperium vs. Chaos. Oh well.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Assuming 3+ to hit and that each krak missile only inflicts 1 damage,

It's unlikely that krak missiles would be 1 Damage.