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 JohnnyHell wrote:
Inb4 someone STILL tries to claim the pics are fake, it's just a rumour, etc. etc.

Fake news!

People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.
I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.
40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes. And I don't say this to White Knight GW, because I think too this is a obvious mone grab movement and a kick in the balls to the tone of the setting. But what whe wish, and what it is, are very different things in the world.

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

Wonder if this is why the Scythes of the Emperor have been getting so much fluff love from Black Library of late.

Noone has been slapped anywhere.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

That's exactly why it's bad, though. Rather than things getting progressively worse and then having to overcome it through sacrifice and a great loss to the Imperium, it's throwing out a solution to all the problems before they've even became that much of an issue. Those Warp storms everywhere? The Chaos attacks? The Fall of Cadia? "Suddenly new Super Marines are here, don't worry, it's not as much of a problem now!". Unless this ends up horribly backfiring on the Imperium, it goes against the core theme of the Imperium and the setting of having no real hope and. facing overwhelming odds but still being able to pull through occasionally.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Oh, by the Emperor, so it is true...
Why on Earth did GW think that the Space Marines, the wonderful soldiers made by a (almost) living god, the best soldiers in the galaxy, were not enough and 40k needed super super soldiers ?
That is stupid, even in the fluff...
Fabius had 10k years to do it, it was HIS thing and never truly managed to do it,.
And now we have, them, better than the Emperor's work.

It's utterly absurd. Games Workshop have been making great buisness and community-related decisions since the new change in management, but something like this suggests they really don't understand (or just don't care) about their own setting anymore. Bringing Roboute back was bad enough but this is even worse. The whole point of W40K and the Imperium is that things are bad and aren't really going to get any better, the Imperium fighting a losing battle but still deseperately holding on and acts of heroism by ordinary people (even Space Marines) turning the tide against all odds and the Imperium pressing on despite looses was the entire point of them. There was no hope, and there should not have been any because that is not what the W40K setting is about. Those Space Marine chapters and the Imperium as a whole are fighting a losing battle but won't give up, that was a core theme of the setting. To Suddenly have Super Superhuman soldiers appear out of nowhere to solve everything, fix all the problems and give hope in a hopeless setting just come across as not understanding what it's supposed to be about, or not caring enough to keep that theme.

It's taking away both the biggest downside to the Imperium and their biggest positive aspect; the refusal to accept defeat and how they'd just keep going. It's like they want to change the Imperium from the Dark, depressing place it is supposed to be to "These are the good guys now, we can't have them losing". The Imperium having hope to this degree not a good thing in the slightest.

Well you're painting quite a noble picture of the Imperium of Mankind. The themes for 40k is also that the Emperor created a golden age for humanity and after the Heresy humanity began doing the exact opposite of what the Emperor wanted, including deifying him and becoming an intolerant, extremist culture, while also having dozens of factions infighting and allowing planets to be ruled by warlords, dictators and worse, so long as they swear allegiance to the Emperor and pay their tithes.

So yeah there is the theme of humanity being beset on all sides by overwhelming odds and standing up in a hopeless predicament, but I think it's a stretch to call that the main theme of 40k, because there are lots of themes in 40k and you deciding which theme resonates with you as a fan doesn't make it the biggest or most important.

Also, there's almost certainly no chance Guilliman will "fix everything" but it does add a new and interesting dynamic, while still keeping the fact that even with Nu marines they are fighting a losing battle.

The 40k setting has changed many, many times over its history. I feel like the people around long enough that remember either accept the changes as part of the ongoing changes to a setting that started as something very different from what it is now, or they cling to the idea that 40k as it was when they got into it is somehow the truest, sacrosanct version, despite what came before.

Maybe it's because I've been around 40k for over 20 years, but reading the same stories over and over with each new rule book release gets a little stale. Moving the story forward a little is exciting and offers something new for once.

Besides the fluff and game have always sort of been separate things. You can always just play without the new stuff and keep reading the same story that's existed for 40k for the last few editions, since apparently it can't ever change.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

That's exactly why it's bad, though. Rather than things getting progressively worse and then having to overcome it through sacrifice and a great loss to the Imperium, it's throwing out a solution to all the problems before they've even became that much of an issue. Those Warp storms everywhere? The Chaos attacks? The Fall of Cadia? "Suddenly new Super Marines are here, don't worry, it's not as much of a problem now!". Unless this ends up horribly backfiring on the Imperium, it goes against the core theme of the Imperium and the setting of having no real hope and. facing overwhelming odds but still being able to pull through occasionally.

*Rolls eyes*

I don't see this as bad. Doing a rehash of the last 30 years isn't good either.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Maybe they're dusting off the recipe for Thunder Warriors? It could be the kind of thing they do out of desperation that ends up being a terrible mistake in the end.

My first thought when I was watching the video - Thunder Warriors 2.0!

"Yeah, we know the previous version was a bit... flawed, but we ran some internal testing and improved the original code. Seriously, MOST of the crucial issues in the bug tracker have been addressed..."

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

That's exactly why it's bad, though. Rather than things getting progressively worse and then having to overcome it through sacrifice and a great loss to the Imperium, it's throwing out a solution to all the problems before they've even became that much of an issue. Those Warp storms everywhere? The Chaos attacks? The Fall of Cadia? "Suddenly new Super Marines are here, don't worry, it's not as much of a problem now!". Unless this ends up horribly backfiring on the Imperium, it goes against the core theme of the Imperium and the setting of having no real hope and. facing overwhelming odds but still being able to pull through occasionally.

*Rolls eyes*

I don't see this as bad. Doing a rehash of the last 30 years isn't good either.

No, we must reread the same story over and over for all time. Each new edition must be the same as the last, with only the edition number changing. This is how you make compelling products that people want to keep buying.

Not a rescale then, that is good.

Possible a replacement going forward though.....hmmm.

I guess it depends how many of the super marines they can make compared to the number of regular marines over a given period of time.

Could be they could make enough to completely replace the current marine creation process?

Or maybe they can only make a certain amount, in a similar way that only a relatively small amount of custodes can be created, so they will only ever be a supplement to regular marines?

Interesting....

 Starfarer wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

That's exactly why it's bad, though. Rather than things getting progressively worse and then having to overcome it through sacrifice and a great loss to the Imperium, it's throwing out a solution to all the problems before they've even became that much of an issue. Those Warp storms everywhere? The Chaos attacks? The Fall of Cadia? "Suddenly new Super Marines are here, don't worry, it's not as much of a problem now!". Unless this ends up horribly backfiring on the Imperium, it goes against the core theme of the Imperium and the setting of having no real hope and. facing overwhelming odds but still being able to pull through occasionally.

*Rolls eyes*

I don't see this as bad. Doing a rehash of the last 30 years isn't good either.

No, we must reread the same story over and over for all time. Each new edition must be the same as the last, with only the edition number changing. This is how you make compelling products that people want to keep buying.

No but also pissing 30 years of backstory.away in a moment of wardian fanwank is not that great, look at AoS and it's current vapid knock off of Mtg and Planescape.

So...we're getting Space Marines...but Space Marine-ier?

Not a resculpting or slight reimagining of them in truescale, but a second parallel line of BigMarines as an actual fluff thing?

That's...that's really what we're doing now?

So...nevermind that the Space Marines were already supposed to be the "best of the best" by definition, nevermind that the original technology that developed them was done at the hand of the Emperor himself with technologies beyond those which remain available in the 41st millenium, and nevermind that exact same concept has already been done with Ultramarines, Grey Knights, Custodes, etc.... we're really just gonna have big RobuteMarines? Am I correct in my interpretation there?

Because, if that's the case, it sounds downright stupid. The game setting is what makes 40k what it is, the IP is by far the most valuable asset the game has, without the background this game would have ceased to exist long ago, it's crippling gameplay issues and pricing would have driven it from the market, and this sounds a really stupid way to move that background forward.

Hope I'm wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting about these.

 Galas wrote:
I'm the only one that likes the Tomb-style Dreadnought more than the new Contemptor model?

The Contemptor to me just look... I don't know. I love my boxy box of Fury :(

Same with Terminators vs Centurions.

Agreed on both counts. The only thing I criticise about the conventional dreadnought is its legs are too short. As for, centurions, they're horrific looking.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

That's exactly why it's bad, though. Rather than things getting progressively worse and then having to overcome it through sacrifice and a great loss to the Imperium, it's throwing out a solution to all the problems before they've even became that much of an issue. Those Warp storms everywhere? The Chaos attacks? The Fall of Cadia? "Suddenly new Super Marines are here, don't worry, it's not as much of a problem now!". Unless this ends up horribly backfiring on the Imperium, it goes against the core theme of the Imperium and the setting of having no real hope and. facing overwhelming odds but still being able to pull through occasionally.

It's just gone from impending doom to rage against the dying of the light.

Ruboute and this Nu-marines are only postponing the inevitable. The age of Fire is coming to his inevitable end, they are just only reigniting the flame for a bit longer.

But to be honest, I don't give the GW narrative team the same quality writing that I can give to the guys after Dark Souls universe Not because they are bad per se, some are, others are genuinely good, but theyr Narrative comes always after the Marketing and Commercial teams, so...

 Vaktathi wrote:


So...nevermind that the Space Marines were already supposed to be the "best of the best" by definition, nevermind that the original technology that developed them was done at the hand of the Emperor himself with technologies beyond those which remain available in the 41st millenium, and nevermind that exact same concept has already been done with Ultramarines, Grey Knights, Custodes, etc.... we're really just gonna have big RobuteMarines? Am I correct in my interpretation there?

Don't forget that the original Legion marines were a lot closer to what they originally were intended to be than the watered down, weak and gene-seed corrupted remnants that are around in 40K.

GreenPlum wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Maybe they're dusting off the recipe for Thunder Warriors? It could be the kind of thing they do out of desperation that ends up being a terrible mistake in the end.

My first thought when I was watching the video - Thunder Warriors 2.0!

"Yeah, we know the previous version was a bit... flawed, but we ran some internal testing and improved the original code. Seriously, MOST of the crucial issues in the bug tracker have been addressed..."

I would love this and I wouldn't be surprised if GW did something close. They do like to put a sting in the tail of the background of even there seemingly most white hat wearing factions. As much as I hate to bring up the Stormcast in this thread It doesn't take much digging to find references to purges, fanatical devotion and other fun things with those guys.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's just gone from impending doom to rage against the dying of the light.

Also this. Really that poem is so 40k

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

That's exactly why it's bad, though. Rather than things getting progressively worse and then having to overcome it through sacrifice and a great loss to the Imperium, it's throwing out a solution to all the problems before they've even became that much of an issue. Those Warp storms everywhere? The Chaos attacks? The Fall of Cadia? "Suddenly new Super Marines are here, don't worry, it's not as much of a problem now!". Unless this ends up horribly backfiring on the Imperium, it goes against the core theme of the Imperium and the setting of having no real hope and. facing overwhelming odds but still being able to pull through occasionally.

It goes against your idea of the core theme of the Imperium, and your idea that the setting has no real hope.

I think new bigger super space marines is a borked theme and I'm not confident it will play in GW's favor. I mean from a modeller's perspective I'm sure they will be fantasic but from a gamer's perspective they annoy me a lot.

I would of been on board for Thunder Warriors being beought back to fill the numbers in the Space Marine ranks. They are bigger stronger crazier super soldiers but they are not the same as Space Marines. They would have gone a long way to keep the game grimdark.

Everyone is deluding themselves if they think these won't sell.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm the only one that likes the Tomb-style Dreadnought more than the new Contemptor model?

The Contemptor to me just look... I don't know. I love my boxy box of Fury :(

Same with Terminators vs Centurions.

Agreed on both counts. The only thing I criticise about the conventional dreadnought is its legs are too short. As for, centurions, they're horrific looking.

I like also boxy dreadnoughts, and am not much of a fan of the Contemptors. I do like the Venerable dreads though.

Centurions I think look cool enough, but I'm hoping that Terminators will see more use in this edition.

Dr._Jim_J_Jimmy wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People, the setting is an excuse to sell models.

I know, I know, I love it too, but first and foremost what they sell is models, not a setting. If they change the setting to make more money, they are just doing what EVERY company do.

40K is not a work of art do for the love of it. Is a multinational company property to give them excuses to push more model-sales.

And at the end of the day, the fault of all of this come to us, the customers, for buying Space Marines and worse, 30k Space Marines like hotcakes.

Honestly, i don't see this is a slap in the face. People are overreacting and getting tunnel-vision.

THEY ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE! THEY ARE BRINGING HOPE!

When this is just a balancing act to keep the equilibrium: as it is, the Imperium isn't holding anymore, it's being crushed under a thousand fronts and the crack that's splitted reality and the galaxy in two parts. This isn't the original "they are doomed to fall down... eventually, someday". They are falling down now. Sol's defenses have been breached, Cadia fell. The storm's never uglier than now and they need a plank to merely keep going on and keep them at bay.

That's exactly why it's bad, though. Rather than things getting progressively worse and then having to overcome it through sacrifice and a great loss to the Imperium, it's throwing out a solution to all the problems before they've even became that much of an issue. Those Warp storms everywhere? The Chaos attacks? The Fall of Cadia? "Suddenly new Super Marines are here, don't worry, it's not as much of a problem now!". Unless this ends up horribly backfiring on the Imperium, it goes against the core theme of the Imperium and the setting of having no real hope and. facing overwhelming odds but still being able to pull through occasionally.

It goes against your idea of the core theme of the Imperium, and your idea that the setting has no real hope.

Hrm, it goes against the core premise of the universe as it has been introduced since the 1980's.

Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook wrote:

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

 gigasnail wrote:
Everyone is deluding themselves if they think these won't sell.

They will sell for sure. I think they will cause Chaos to sell less and the other Space Marine range may as well he recalled because I don't see those selling very much once true scale comes out, even if they are using nu marines for old marines causing nu marine models to make true scale nu marines.

Still when the smoke clears I think nu marines will be considered the flaw to 8th.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Everyone is deluding themselves if they think these won't sell.

They will sell for sure. I think they will cause Chaos to sell less and the other Space Marine range may as well he recalled because I don't see those selling very much once true scale comes out, even if they are using nu marines for old marines causing nu marine models to make true scale nu marines.

Still when the smoke clears I think nu marines will be considered the flaw to 8th.

Why would they need to? The video says the new guys will be shipped out to the other chapters. Whatever you play with, in universe your playing with numarines.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Everyone is deluding themselves if they think these won't sell.

They will sell for sure. I think they will cause Chaos to sell less and the other Space Marine range may as well he recalled because I don't see those selling very much once true scale comes out, even if they are using nu marines for old marines causing nu marine models to make true scale nu marines.

Still when the smoke clears I think nu marines will be considered the flaw to 8th.

This is my feeling. With respect to the rules we've seen thus far, it appears to be a great advance over 7E. But this hamfisted NuMarines fluff really just sounds like a steaming pile for the background setting.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Everyone is deluding themselves if they think these won't sell.

They will sell for sure. I think they will cause Chaos to sell less and the other Space Marine range may as well he recalled because I don't see those selling very much once true scale comes out, even if they are using nu marines for old marines causing nu marine models to make true scale nu marines.

Still when the smoke clears I think nu marines will be considered the flaw to 8th.

This is my feeling. With respect to the rules we've seen thus far, it appears to be a great advance over 7E. But this hamfisted NuMarines fluff really just sounds like a steaming pile for the background setting.

I don't get how making a better version of a gun craps on the setting? I mean...nobody cried they were destroying the grimdark when the first suped up land raider variant came out did they? Or the leman russes with fancier guns? people hated grav but that was more a tabletop thing than anything to do with the fluff of them.

They took a weapon they had and made a better version of it. That's military 101 and I don't get why it's a problem.

I think I prefer it this way.

Just a re-scale without a note in the fluff would've basically soft-invalidated all existing Space Marines (and Chaos Marines) as being inexplicably a head short.

This way, everyone's existing collection is still perfectly fine. Add Nu-Marines at your own pleasure (or don't).

Now I hope they will bring out some new, accompanying tanks

And flyers ...

Thundereagles?

If this will turn out to be just an infantry kit (or three) ... :( *Sad Panda*

ERJAK wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Everyone is deluding themselves if they think these won't sell.

They will sell for sure. I think they will cause Chaos to sell less and the other Space Marine range may as well he recalled because I don't see those selling very much once true scale comes out, even if they are using nu marines for old marines causing nu marine models to make true scale nu marines.

Still when the smoke clears I think nu marines will be considered the flaw to 8th.

This is my feeling. With respect to the rules we've seen thus far, it appears to be a great advance over 7E. But this hamfisted NuMarines fluff really just sounds like a steaming pile for the background setting.

I don't get how making a better version of a gun craps on the setting? I mean...nobody cried they were destroying the grimdark when the first suped up land raider variant came out did they? Or the leman russes with fancier guns? people hated grav but that was more a tabletop thing than anything to do with the fluff of them.

Most of these were retcons, stuff that had ostensibly been there the whole time but just weren't portrayed for whatever reason, not an *advancement*. A huge part of the theme is that technological advancement is essentially dead and holds no promise of salvation against the coming darkness, it's a pretty core tenet of the intro in every edition of the 40k rulebook. And yes, some of these things did cause some fluff kerfluffles, particularly things like Centurions.

And, more to the point, it really just feels both unnecessary and a clumsily hamfisted way of introducing a new kit line. Just make the new big marine kits and sell them as "cooler models". that sells just fine. Dark Eldar didn't need a fluff revamp for their entire line getting reworked from the ground up.