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 Galas wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm glad they're not just Marines, but a different kind of Marines.

My concern however is that this means we're never getting another 'regular' Marine release again, and that everything from hereon in will be a nuMarine, until, much like in the fluff, they replace all the existing Marines.

Did normal marines even need more releases? What can they need, besides... scout bikes? new terminators? Really, they have reached a point where they have just... everything.

Everything now yes, but no more Centurions, Storm Ravens, Storm Talons, Storm Hawks etc etc as new 12" Malibu Stacey will get all the hats.

Arms race with Fabius Bile to create Monster Chaos Marines, please!

 silverstu wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Ok, combine that with the fact that they can't reach half the galaxy then.

If there's replacement on the horizon, it's so far off that it isn't really worth spending energy on any more than people wake up every day freaking out over the heat death of the universe.

It's more that we won't see releases for marines of the current scale continuing for much longer. I believe Hastings mentioned something to this effect as well (as few releases here and there but not much.)

Exactly- is there much left for a substantive release for the current marines or are they just "slight better/different armour marks" sets, or chapter specific squads. The marine range is pretty full- this is the only way they can keep it going- by bringing in new stuff.
I'm not a marine player but it looks reasonable- Cawl has been working on a project for 10,000 years with access to the geneseed banks and who knows what else. They seem to be talking about new reinforcements for chapters and even the restoration of chapters that have been destroyed. Darker times calls for better super soldiers and the current marines become the old school vets..plus there is plenty of scope for chapters not taking too fondly to these new guys.

look at it this way, we could start to see space wolf sucessors!

 Medium of Death wrote:
Arms race with Fabius Bile to create Monster Chaos Marines, please!

I'm sure Chaos marines will soon contend size-wise with their Imperial counterparts. Heck, I wouldn't t be surprised if it was retconned that the Warp always made them bigger! This will probably be visible with the upcoming starter release: with Nurgle, it's easy to excuse an increase in size.

Really, the story is mirroring that of Warhammer Fantasy at the End Times.

This reminds me when people were insisting that Stormcast had replaced generic humans, who would be phased out and become an unimportant sidenote. Turns out the opposite happened with normal humans becoming more important as the fluff went on, but hey nothing quite like whining ceaselessly over change. There is absolutely nothing GW could have done that would not have whole swathes of people saying it was the worst thing ever.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
This reminds me when people were insisting that Stormcast had replaced generic humans, who would be phased out and become an unimportant sidenote. Turns out the opposite happened with normal humans becoming more important as the fluff went on, but hey nothing quite like whining ceaselessly over change. There is absolutely nothing GW could have done that would not have whole swathes of people saying it was the worst thing ever.

Er, what new human releases have come out for AoS? As far as I've seen, it's Stormcasts that have come to dominate the model releases for that game (minus the appearance of the more zealous units of the old Empire).

I think we'll continue to see Imperial Guard releases, but current Space Marines will be set on the wayside.

 Accolade wrote:
I think this will also help GW separate the Horus Heresy stuff (which is Space Marine centric) from 40k, which will move to having the Nu-Marines eventually replace the previous marine range.

See, that's wierd, because if they wanted to keep 30K and 40K distinct there was a fairly simple thing they could have done to achieve that: leave Primarchs in 30K where they belong.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

With regards the production of new marines (existing) plenty of chapters will be stuck on the wrong side of the warp tear, with no access to the new marines and recruitment.

The new marines are also only made on Mars at present, so I'd hazard their rate of production combined with demand vs supply means recruiting standard marines will be a necessity.

There's also no hints that the new marines can be continually created, this may just be a 1 large batch of reinforcements and done (unlikely).

It's certainly no fluff abomination, new marines have existed once before thanks to the Ravenguard, which from memory the alpha legion stole the tech for? So maybe they lent a hand #plottwist

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

Wait, whut? "Telegraphing future developments" is the defining quality of a great story - foreshadowing. The best story is one that tells you absolutely everything you need to know to figure out the ending, but still manages to surprise you without making you feel thick for not having done so. Stories that rely on "surprise, motherfether!" twists or "suddenly: Jesus saved everyone" deus ex machina are derided as cheap pulp nonsense. Seriously, take a creative writing course sometime.

That's enough from everyone.

RULE #1.

Or it will be significant time off from this forum.

Foreshadowing is a creative device, it's not the sole one, it isn't an obligation and it certainly isn't an indicator of quality unless done well, just like pretty much every other storytelling technique.

I do think it's odd to have super humans, super humans born from the emperor, super humans made from the emperor but not labeled as sons, and now super humans who are from the people made from the emperor but more super but below the emperors' super humans that are not labeled his sons.

Yet they aren't replacing the current line of marines, you'll still be able to get your Blood Claw packs and Black Templar Upgrades, but these new marines are a way of letting you bring new elite squads to your existing line or (in my opinion) the reason they intended, they let us finally have true-scale marines so it's a choice to either use them as the new guys or to make your current marines more true-scale, it's a win win, nothing's going away only new stuff on top of everything.

What a time to be alive.

So... Guilliman just became Justinian and started a new Crusade in order to restore the Imperium from the barbaric tribes and rebel generals.

I am however conflicted as everyone else. New Marines sounds nice but I cannot comprehend how will they work in fluff. First major problem they will face is Chaos corruption, and if that problem is fixed then Grey Knights will lose their reason for existing. Second major problem is introducing them to other Chapters who have other Primarch, but I can see this being avoided if they somehow improved the body but left geen-seen unchanged - as in they were not using Guilliman's geen-ssed at all but improved body instead.

In any case I am exited to see where they will go next with this. With new marines incoming and Armageddon daemon invasion in progress I cannot wait to see what more will happen in meantime.

As the owner of over 10,000pts of painted marines (mostly 2nd and 3rd edition models) last I bothered to count them up, I support the move by GW. Would I have preferred just a new model role out to replace the 1998 tactical marine kit? Yeah, probably. I could do with newer better proportioned models without the change in the fluff. I'm a fan though of the truescale trend that was popular a few years back and I relish the chance to buy a squad or two and paint them up as ultras as well as convert some to space wolves with the plethora of bits available. If they actually have better stats that reflect the fluff of Astartes more than the 44441483 that marines had relative to other models then even better as long as they're costed approrpiately and meant to be fielded in smaller numbers.

Game mechanics-wise, I don't see any issue with folks just playing counts as with their old marines as the new malibu marines with new hats. Space Marines have never been the absolute top skim cream of the crop (Thunder Warriors, Custodes, Primarchs, and Grey Knights being the obvious examples) although I will admit that this is the most upfront Iphone'ing of Astartes that GW has ever done.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

W40K is a setting where there is very little technological development, things on a grand scale are mostly unchanging, and there is overall little hope, especially not for the Imperium. That's the way it's been for 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy. This is Deus Ex Machina that's appeared out of nowhere that'll supposedly suddenly save everything, goes against the themes for the past 10,000 years of the Imperium and undermines the core tenants of the setting as a whole. The lack of foreshadowing and how it's just came out of absolute nowhere is the problem here, it's poor storytelling and it's done just so they can shove these new super Marines into the setting in a way that doesn't actually fit in with the setting, based on what we know so far.

While foreshadowing/telegraphing things is not entirely necessary all the time (e.g. new Land Raider Variants were suddenly discovered, or Stormravens suddenly being introduced) when it's on such a grand scale and something so important, it feels a bit cheap to do it like this. Obviously we've yet to see exactly how this would turn out so it might end up being alright, but from what's been shown so far it doesn't sound overly good to me.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
I do think it's odd to have super humans, super humans born from the emperor, super humans made from the emperor but not labeled as sons, and now super humans who are from the people made from the emperor but more super but below the emperors' super humans that are not labeled his sons.

Yet they aren't replacing the current line of marines, you'll still be able to get your Blood Claw packs and Black Templar Upgrades, but these new marines are a way of letting you bring new elite squads to your existing line or (in my opinion) the reason they intended, they let us finally have true-scale marines so it's a choice to either use them as the new guys or to make your current marines more true-scale, it's a win win, nothing's going away only new stuff on top of everything.

What a time to be alive.

They are the new grandchilds of the Emperor. I'll see if I can make a squad or two of Supermarines to my Dark Angels force and give them proper robes! They will make my characters look a litte odd, but meh. Nothing that conversion can't fix to make them Supermarines and not just SpaceMarines but bigger.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of 'New Bigger Marines'.

It's probably the laziest idea I've seen. TBH, all we needed was someone to do something about the legs of the existing models.

And I'm not sure if the rumors of He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named coming back to GW. Rumors crop up that he's been re-hired and suddenly we're seeing our SPIRITUAL LIEGE lead the damned imperium, oh shocker there.

If GW hasn't changed enough, we'll see no updated Chaos Marines for another decade.

I'm hearing scuttlebutt that a picture of the new boxed game has been sighted.

Can anyone provide a link or a picture?

A new faction of bigger better marines to take alongside and bolster other imperial forces is how I see it going.

This would be the best way to maximise sales and would fit with the " Two new factions out at the release of 8th ed " statement that was made. ( Death guard and Mega marines )

 Galas wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
I do think it's odd to have super humans, super humans born from the emperor, super humans made from the emperor but not labeled as sons, and now super humans who are from the people made from the emperor but more super but below the emperors' super humans that are not labeled his sons.

Yet they aren't replacing the current line of marines, you'll still be able to get your Blood Claw packs and Black Templar Upgrades, but these new marines are a way of letting you bring new elite squads to your existing line or (in my opinion) the reason they intended, they let us finally have true-scale marines so it's a choice to either use them as the new guys or to make your current marines more true-scale, it's a win win, nothing's going away only new stuff on top of everything.

What a time to be alive.

They are the new grandchilds of the Emperor. I'll see if I can make a squad or two of Supermarines to my Dark Angels force and give them proper robes! They will make my characters look a litte odd, but meh. Nothing that conversion can't fix to make them Supermarines and not just SpaceMarines but bigger.

Im gonna have to practice my green stuff skills. I'd love to get those new Assault Marines and turn them into taller tabard wearing Crusaders.

I'll be keeping my all marine armies as they are but just using these new marines for my mixed lists, just for that visual representation of proper super humans on the field. Gonna be sweeeeeeeeet.

Edit: I am looking forward to future dioramas that show the Guard doing their thing and then amongst them will be these towering giants. Armies on Parade should be good.

 Galas wrote:
In 5 years we all be enjoying our new Supermarines and all the Space Marines of old will be forgotten, to only be enjoyed by those extrange geeks that call themselves "oldhammers". Like those Beakies.

The process culminationg will be the Men in Black of GW erasing our collective memories of the old-Space Marines, and rebranding all this new breed of Supermarines into normal Space Marines.

All marines will die in battle and with the story moving forward only supermarines will remain, that reached that point have nothing about them Super, because the Normal Marines are no more! A perfect plan. Only a master mind like the one of Tom Kirby with the aid of Matt Ward could have planet that!

Meanwhile Sisters will still use the same model as when originally released. Because we all know what 40k needs is more marines…

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
This reminds me when people were insisting that Stormcast had replaced generic humans, who would be phased out and become an unimportant sidenote. Turns out the opposite happened with normal humans becoming more important as the fluff went on, but hey nothing quite like whining ceaselessly over change. There is absolutely nothing GW could have done that would not have whole swathes of people saying it was the worst thing ever.

They should replace the loyal/nurgle marine with this quote as the logo for 40K.

Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

I can get behind new Squats! I love the AOS dwarves they just introduced. I always heard they dumped squats because they couldn't think of anything cool. STEAMPUNK DORFS ARE COOL!

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

This line of thinking assumes that sales of one increases resources available to another line. There is no such direct link, GW selling tons of Space Marines doesn't necessarily mean another line is going to get greater support or anything like that beyond the very indirect result of GW keeping its doors open. That's just really not how these things work, particularly at a publicly traded manufacturing firm like GW.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

Yep, the more factions, the merrier !

I am not liking the recent fluff, but lots of people are and good for them, the new stuff is selling like hot cakes and these new marines will too !

 Vaktathi wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

This line of thinking assumes that sales of one increases resources available to another line. There is no such direct link, GW selling tons of Space Marines doesn't necessarily mean another line is going to get greater support or anything like that beyond the very indirect result of GW keeping its doors open. That's just really not how these things work, particularly at a publicly traded manufacturing firm like GW.

No, Johnny is dead right. Your big sellers are what give you the security and resources to experiment and explore. The tighter the purse strings get, the more conservative you have to be with your resources.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

W40K is a setting where there is very little technological development, things on a grand scale are mostly unchanging, and there is overall little hope, especially not for the Imperium. That's the way it's been for 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy. This is Deus Ex Machina that's appeared out of nowhere that'll supposedly suddenly save everything, goes against the themes for the past 10,000 years of the Imperium and undermines the core tenants of the setting as a whole. The lack of foreshadowing and how it's just came out of absolute nowhere is the problem here, it's poor storytelling and it's done just so they can shove these new super Marines into the setting in a way that doesn't actually fit in with the setting, based on what we know so far.

"Save everything?"

...um...look at the map of the galaxy again. The conflict has just escalated on BOTH sides. Add in the main tyranid fleet (if it truly is coming), more Necrons waking up and the greenskins getting all frisky with all the fighting going on, all the Imperium has gotten is a means to maybe hold the line a bit longer.

And you can't tell me that Primarchs returning hasn't been telegraphed for decades. Gulliman wasn't locked in a stasis bubble just so GW could NOT bring him back eventually. Vulcan promised to come back when the Salamanders found all his relics. Somebody at GW had the brass to actually pull the trigger on it.

Rowboat won't sweep the galaxy with his NuMarines. He'll secure a portion of the galaxy before numbers of enemy grinds him to a halt. The Tau get to secure some space, Necrons grab swaths of territory, and everybody is busy fighting greenskins/tyranics/chaos because they're all over the place. Endless war, nothing has really changed.

my take on the current scale of marines:
they're already 'true-scale'. it's all the other human minis that are too big!