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2017/05/11 22:18:30
Subject: Re:Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (Sci Fi set added May 4)
ced1106 wrote: There is poo! And it fits in the wheelbarrow! Now, all we need is some enterprising miniatures company to make some stable hands.
Well, that means at least one model in this Kickstarter looks like sh*t...
We are in for three Crates, and some sets to be added later, when we can afford them....
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2017/05/12 22:10:26
Subject: Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (Sci Fi set added May 4)
They've been killing it today nearly 485k. Eating up little stretch goals right now and another add on set at 500k. If they still do 48 hour notices I think they're in a great place for those to go out.
I believe the $180 3 crate pledge was quoted at 63c/49p a piece which is certainly noticeably better than the start.
2017/05/12 22:22:19
Subject: Re:Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (Sci Fi set added May 4)
That temple set was from my long suggestion for a terraincrate 2.0. Almost everything currently in the set was there and I think they'll draw from the other parts of the original suggestion if they fill it out more. SO.. here's what those were in case people are looking forward to it or curious.
Pews - I am kinda hopeful on this one because I have a Pegasus cathedral that needs seating. Reliquary, Shrine, Idols/Icons - Seems like a no-brainer but I don't know that they've developed the symbology enough to pull this one off. Tithing Box - This one might be too obscure Ornate chairs, desks, and tables - Thinking maybe not since there's no shortage of desks and there's already a pretty sweet chair or two. Confessional - I would be really surprised if they worked this in since it would have to be fairly large and is basically a structure.
In another part of the rather lengthy proposed 2.0 I mentioned a Basilean encampment. That's actually where the reflecting pool was taken from. Most other aspects of that dealt with it being a camp though.. so outside of the reliquary and artifacts I don't know too many other parts of it that would carry over to this particular add-on.
EDIT1: I forgot about another thing that could potentially work it's way into this.. I mentioned a pyre.. the intention was a public witch burning type thing but I don't know if that translated just from "pyre" and I think I mentioned incense stands and candelabras but I am not sure.. EDIT2: Found the original suggestion..
Spoiler:
You know.. if they write down a lot of the ideas people have they will have enough to do a 2.0.. Dungeon Crate 2.0 Warlord's Stronghold - Throne, trophies, tusk prison cell walls, pet panther, warlord's bedding, War table Spiderqueen's Nest - Eggs, webbed support beams and stone pillars, captured prey (humanoid and animal), carcasses and bones, dead spiders, mushroom patches The Cursed Halls - Suits of armor standing at attention - Animated suits in the same style, blade traps, animated/ghostly paintings, stone imp statue, monkey paw, rugs (normal), same rugs but 1 flying, one wrapped around bones, one reared back forming a giant mouth (mimic) The Goblin Village - Mawbeast pens, mawbeast posts, litters, and feeding troughs, goblin bazaar, goblin warren, cook's mess (literally) Battlefield Crate 2.0 Neritica Beach - Giga pulling a train of hermit crabs with supplies, shipwreck pieces, half destroyed rowboats, boxes covered in netting, smaller crabs and other creatures pulling shells with smaller loads of treasure or armor and gear. Basilean Encampment - Altar, Shrine, Commanders tent, sacred artifact, anointed reflecting basin, pyres, posts for the horses, lance training devices, covered tables Nature's barriers - tangles of thick thorned vines, carnivorous plants, earth that has been magically curled up into a barricade Deaths' stronghold - Walls of corpses, barricades of bone, cadaver on a Catherine Wheel Crate - Town 2.0 Town Justice - Bench of the high judge, Juror box, stands for the accusor and accused, gallows, chopping block, head bucket, stockade Accoutrements of the Priory - Pulpit, pews, confessional, reliquary, tithing box, incense stands, icons of Basilea, tables, desks, chairs Market and tradesmen - Vendor stands, food stands, baker's tools and loaves of bread, woodwright's tools and stacks of lumber, various bagged food items, ropes, coils of rope, saddles, sawhorses The House of Ill-repute - card tables, bookie stand, kennels, benches, buckets, low-rise bleachers, posts with targets and daggers sticking out, paymaster's stand, stakes with ropes that can form a fighting ring
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/12 23:45:12
That's a bit of a catch 22 though.. RPGs and supplements and expansions are a MASSIVE way of building that sort of thing. I was looking over the ranges and this kickstarter specifically.. They don't have a lot of the iconic symbology and just general product identity that makes the main competition so memorable. People remember the Skaven symbol, the 2-tailed comet, those crazy heart, phoenix, and lion shapes from the Elves, the runes and symbols for the Dwarves.. all of it.. Mantic is really just super generic in those departments. So visually they need to grow and build that sort of thing but also.. thought into campaign settings (where the RPG thing comes in). Warhammer FB's RPG embellished on a lot of that for GW.. in the same way the campaign settings for D&D, Pathfinder, White Wolf games, Shadowrun, Battletech. Maybe novels can pick up some of that slack but without world books to flesh out things like the belief system of the Basileans, the rituals involved with bringing in the undead,, power struggles of the various Orc and/or Goblin tribes, or the areas and types of game the Ogres hunt. To me that's really MORE of a reason to push for an RPG, even if it's basically a slightly scaled up version of Dungeon Saga with some light RP elements.
You're correct that Mantic's world is super generic at present, and that RPGs are a good way to flesh that out, but I disagree that Mantic should be looking into such a thing. All of that WH iconography that you mention is fine, and well and good if you're playing WHFRP, but the generic nature of these sets (and if the TWD material is as good as people have said) then by remaining generic this has a mass appeal that ranges from "filling out" miniatures games like DS/WHQ/HQ but more importantly gives them a great product for all the many, many D&D/Pathfinder/etc RPGs out there.
It has the potential (if done right) to kick the ass of simple efforts of Reaper (plus Bones plastic is not a great material) but also go in nicely alongside things like high-end (Dwarven Forge) through to low-end (people drawing corridors with erasable dry markers on laminated graph paper). I've been a huge critic of Mantic at times, but they do have the ability to create some kick-arse scenery, and both the Mars Attacks and Dungeon Saga stuff was not perfect, but pretty decent, and if they have continued to improve then it's a case of Mantic building on their strengths, which is a good thing. Product like this, especially quality stuff at a decent price has the potential to reach a really wide market, since the alternative seems to be much more expensive resin equivalents or purchasing Hirst Arts moulds - both lacking in the simple-to-acquire variety on offer here.
Creating an RPG is a lot of work and a lot of expense and a lot of risk and as you've correctly said - Mantica is a rather sterile, generic "world" which derives rather a lot from the already-derivative Old World - so there's very little in the way of a hook to draw people in when they could play in The actual Old World or The Forgotten Realms or Middle-Earth or.... so why would anyone but the Mantic faithful pick up and play in an RPG world that lacks anything compelling?
better to publish a few more digital novellas and add some fluff pages to each of the next KoW campaign books, and maybe one day they'll get there. Probably not, but that's ok.
I may get got by the add-on crate in the PM. Right now I think the sets need a lot of love to approach the main three, besides which being only 3x sets vs 4. Still, it's a bit of a thing for the completionists.
Flying right along today too!
2017/05/13 17:08:59
Subject: Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (Sci Fi set added May 4)
Starting to wonder if they're going to fill out the temple set more.. a broken pillar with just over 24 hours to go.. and still adding stuff to other sets.. Either way.. this is a massive load of terrain.
Azazel - I think we'll agree to disagree on those finer points. The generic nature is definitely useful but they could very easily release symbols the way GW does for shields and whatnot.
I dunno.. maybe it is their business strategy to always be the generic distant cousin to ..everything.. but I know for a fact they want to break out of that.. Ronnie and whoever was running the DZ KS comments both said as much.. They really despise being seen as a knockoff of X Y or Z and want to be their own thing.
As to who would want to do that? Well.. Pathfinder was a generic "Not-D&D".. and really IMO it still is (I don't own or play it in any capacity) but it's wildly popular. I can't say (as nobody can) that it would or wouldn't do well.. We just don't know that. We do know that if they never try we'll never know for sure.
If they despise being seen as a knock-off they should maybe question whether they're behaving like one each time they make a decision then.
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2017/05/13 23:49:00
Subject: Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (Sci Fi set added May 4)
MLaw wrote: Starting to wonder if they're going to fill out the temple set more.. a broken pillar with just over 24 hours to go.. and still adding stuff to other sets.. Either way.. this is a massive load of terrain.
Azazel - I think we'll agree to disagree on those finer points. The generic nature is definitely useful but they could very easily release symbols the way GW does for shields and whatnot.
I dunno.. maybe it is their business strategy to always be the generic distant cousin to ..everything.. but I know for a fact they want to break out of that.. Ronnie and whoever was running the DZ KS comments both said as much.. They really despise being seen as a knockoff of X Y or Z and want to be their own thing.
Sure, though Mantica doesn't even have symbols to my knowledge. They certainly don't have any strong iconography at this stage. It's going to take a lot of work for them to be seen as more than a GW-lite company, given their past and much of their present, (Ironic if it was in the comments of DZ, which generally has been seen as Not-Nercomunda!) but best of luck to them with things like the TWD licence and such (and this campaign for generic sceneries).
As to who would want to do that? Well.. Pathfinder was a generic "Not-D&D".. and really IMO it still is (I don't own or play it in any capacity) but it's wildly popular. I can't say (as nobody can) that it would or wouldn't do well.. We just don't know that. We do know that if they never try we'll never know for sure.
Yeah, Pathfinder seems to pretty much be D&D 3.5++ essentially, but it's based on the D20 system and shares enough stuff so that people just use their D&D modules with it. Mantic would be starting from pretty much scratch, and competing with things like and including Pathfinder while still lacking their own hook/USP. While on one level I don't much care what they do with their resources and time, on the other level I'm a little concerned that it would be throwing same into a black hole when they could be using same to be getting better at their core business - minis games and minis. Better to flesh their world out with some commissioned novels and short stories. Especially since they can do that on the cheap with e-books and "aspiring" writers willing to work for free/very little a la the Rules Committees.
As to who would want to do that? Well.. Pathfinder was a generic "Not-D&D".. and really IMO it still is (I don't own or play it in any capacity) but it's wildly popular. I can't say (as nobody can) that it would or wouldn't do well.. We just don't know that. We do know that if they never try we'll never know for sure.
Yeah, Pathfinder seems to pretty much be D&D 3.5++ essentially, but it's based on the D20 system and shares enough stuff so that people just use their D&D modules with it.
From a rules perspective, sure - Pathfinder was deliberately written to be D&D 3.75 when D&D went all MMO with 4th edition.
When you look at the breadth of material available about Golarion, however, brushing the setting off as a "generic "not-D&D"" is doing Paizo a massive disservice.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2017/05/14 07:30:05
Subject: Re:Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (Sci Fi set added May 4)
From a rules perspective, sure - Pathfinder was deliberately written to be D&D 3.75 when D&D went all MMO with 4th edition.
When you look at the breadth of material available about Golarion, however, brushing the setting off as a "generic "not-D&D"" is doing Paizo a massive disservice.
Yes, each country is its own generic adventure setting. There's the basic high fantasy country, the basic low fantasy country, the against the slavers country, the against the evil mages country, the cowboy country, the good dictatorship country, etc. All strewn about the map randomly with no thought on how such ridiculously diverse tech levels and political systems could exist in close proximity.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2017/05/14 09:58:08
Subject: Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (Sci Fi set added May 4)
Yeah, Pathfinder seems to pretty much be D&D 3.5++ essentially, but it's based on the D20 system and shares enough stuff so that people just use their D&D modules with it.
From a rules perspective, sure - Pathfinder was deliberately written to be D&D 3.75 when D&D went all MMO with 4th edition.
When you look at the breadth of material available about Golarion, however, brushing the setting off as a "generic "not-D&D"" is doing Paizo a massive disservice.
I'll admit I know very little about Paizo's publications, but it certainly makes sense that they've developed a fleshed-out world to go with their ruleset. Of course, they've started from a strong system position with Pathfinder itself - especially with the backlash against 4th - as opposed to starting from "no RPG experience" with a generic not-Warhammer world. My Pathfinder experience has been very limited - with a friend running randomly generated dungeons rather than "proper" adventures.
Well i Put in $1, but for such an enormous amount of terrain there really isn't much that would be useful for my AoS board... I would need to build a little village to be able to use most of this stuff.
2017/05/15 20:56:56
Subject: Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (finished May 15 at $629,460)
I'm jumping in a little late here since the campaign is over, but Mantic do have the adventure game book to expand their brand. It's a fun read that really makes me want to go back and take every pathway to find all the hidden items and bits of lore.
It kills me to say this, but I think Mantic should make more of these in a digital format, perhaps as an app or MS Paint Aventures-style hypertext, and include links on the pamphlets they include in all KoW boxes. The adventures do not need to be very long, only as long as the town segment in the first book really, to give a little tour and some background while introducing the mechanics of the tabletop game. They could have one for humans/dwarfs/elves, one for Abyssal factions, one for elementals, where your character must reach the battlefield/survive an assassin/defeat a spy while seeing the sights in Basilea, the Abyss, Valandor's Tower, a Naiad seafort, etc., and meeting notable characters. Perhaps there can be a hero generator at the end that gives you KoW stats and cost based on the choices you made and loot you won.
Mymearan wrote: Well i Put in $1, but for such an enormous amount of terrain there really isn't much that would be useful for my AoS board... I would need to build a little village to be able to use most of this stuff.
Yeah, noting the fact that most of this stuff isn't suited for big wargames so much as RPG type stuff is what led me to the whole question/suggestion about a Mantica RPG type game. TBH, NOT having a RPG on the way makes a lot of this stuff seem like a very bizarre choice for them to go to market with. I know they have a "skirmish" game on the way plus DS.. but most of this really does strike me as more RPG or at the very least skirmish in the individualized model nature of that format more than what we've been told they're actually doing..
I really enjoyed the KS though.. but part of me does fully expect them, in full Mantic fashion, to suddenly announce that they're going to be releasing these in metal or that they've decided to ditch the add-ons and allow us to choose an e-book nobody wants or somesuch.
I think they're just smart enough to realise that skirmish games are pretty popular right now. I mean most of this stuff is *perfect* for Frostgrave, which is still selling very nicely AFAIK.
I think they would be very foolish to make a fantasy heartbreaker RPG. I mean that stuff was getting old in the 90s: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/
Yes, making an RPG can help you flesh out a world, but only a world that's already interesting and distinctive.
Then after the project ended, they said they wouldn't make them, so I had to spend my pledge money on other stuff I didn't really need.
Then they made them anyway
I feel your pain. I had to divert my adventure book pledge to Valandor and an expansion with some decent abyssal minis and also a Moloch.
But none of that is the book's fault, nor Matt Gilbert's, so I got a copy, anyway. I plan to buy the next one, too, if they ever release it. I had a lot of fun ransacking a church, slaying an elf to take his trail mix, and indeed finding a sword in a stone.
I was also tempted by the battlefield crate but held off getting it. I figure we know it's going to be produced and hit retail eventually so I didn't feel a pressing need and I can't even recall what all I'm getting from that Outpost KS that's still working on production so waiting let's me try to pick out stuff that fits in with that wooden fort aesthetic.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2017/05/16 18:21:29
Subject: Terrain-Crate Kickstarter from Mantic live (finished May 15 at $629,460)
Orcs Army for four months! 
