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jouso wrote:
In a crossover with the US politics thread, Mad Dog Mattis warns UK to spend big or say goodbye to the special relationship (which seemingly wants to be inherited by France, or so says the US)

"So you're a retired general with decades of service? I've seen a little combat myself... I stabbed my predecessor in the back and then used my office to recommend myself for his post whilst still holding the bloody knife."

So May has a new customs plan that sounds scarily like all the others in that we can have frictionless trade but free to arrange trade deals with everyone else. One suspects I can see where this plan is going to go.

However barring Tory infighting about what that means, there s some suggestion that it doesn't even exist.

The immediate problem with the "new plan" is whether or not it really exists.
Because while Number 10 says it does, ask other people in government and they are not quite so sure. Ministers who you might have thought would be aware of the detail like - oh, you might imagine - the Brexit secretary had not agreed the lines, before Number 10 made their intervention.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44671507

At least it is a step forward. May is at least acknowledging that any realistic plans are just imaginary!

I’m telling ya.

There’ll be a second referendum before all this is over.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m telling ya.

There’ll be a second referendum before all this is over.

At this stage it probably is the best way forward. But I can't see how May will be able to square it with her party. She is desperately trying to keep the party from splitting apart whilst the UK suffers for it. Corbyn still isn't shifting his position on this and the other left of centre parties haven't got enough of a voice. It really requires Corbyn to change his position because I can't see May will. Even then Tory rebels may not support this because of the risk that it might put their party out of power for a long time as UKIP suddenly pick a huge number of votes again.

Perhaps we'll have a quick referendum on rejoining the EU.

 Whirlwind wrote:
So May has a new customs plan that sounds scarily like all the others in that we can have frictionless trade but free to arrange trade deals with everyone else. One suspects I can see where this plan is going to go.

And back in the real world, AIG starts telling their European customers their insurance policies now go through a new Luxembourg subsidiary.



Something which was announced last year.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d7b47a5-00b4-32bc-9ec0-e13ff6b104f3

This is what passporting looks like.

Well it looks like reality is really starting to bite. Apparently our top negotiator has told cabinet that there simply is no other choices on the table other than a Canada style trade deal or the Norway model.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-warns-her-cabinet-there-is-now-no-chance-of-a-bespoke-brexit-deal-2018-7?utm_source=reddit.com

That the meeting on Friday is to basically decide which to choose...

Obviously the point of Wrexit is significantly reduced if the option is "stay the same but with less influence"

But wrexiteers will still be claiming "EU will show they were bluffing any second now! We are holding all the cards! 1 is more powerful than many!"

 Whirlwind wrote:
In other news. School academies are now using German POW style punishment for children. Isolating them for the whole day without being allowed to talk or do anything else.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/children-isolated-for-7-hours-a-day-in-consequence-booths-at-academies-mp_uk_5b33a1a5e4b0b5e692f35b59?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

If parents did this, social services would be called. However it's fine for schools to do it. Too many school managers rooting for the Germans in the Great Escape?

That's been going on for at least a decade - I left working in education 7 years ago and academies had been doing it for a few years then.

http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/Brexit%20Practicalities%20Scorecard%20Final.pdf

All across the United Kingdom, businesses are seeking answers to the practical questions they face over the UK’s pending departure from the European Union.
For Chamber member companies, the ultimate test of any Brexit deal is whether it delivers clarity. Answers to practical questions – rather than endless debates over institutional and constitutional arrangements – are what firms of every size and
sector need in order to take decisions, invest and prepare for the future.
As HM Government negotiates a future partnership between the UK and the EU, the British Chambers of Commerce will be assessing progress on these business-critical issues. Now – as deep negotiations on the future relationship have yet to
commence – we find that progress is RED on most issues and AMBER on the remaining issues

marvelous.

 reds8n wrote:
http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/Brexit%20Practicalities%20Scorecard%20Final.pdf

All across the United Kingdom, businesses are seeking answers to the practical questions they face over the UK’s pending departure from the European Union.
For Chamber member companies, the ultimate test of any Brexit deal is whether it delivers clarity. Answers to practical questions – rather than endless debates over institutional and constitutional arrangements – are what firms of every size and
sector need in order to take decisions, invest and prepare for the future.
As HM Government negotiates a future partnership between the UK and the EU, the British Chambers of Commerce will be assessing progress on these business-critical issues. Now – as deep negotiations on the future relationship have yet to
commence – we find that progress is RED on most issues and AMBER on the remaining issues

Spoiler:

marvelous.

That looks worse progress wise then a swiss parlamentary trench warfare where a unholly alliance has formed and language groups get involved in a free-for-all-manner.
In fact that looks worse then our dossier in regards to the EU "Rahmenabkommen".

So what's going on in the EU?

I got an email from Wikipedia saying they need my help

On July 5th, the European Parliament is voting on a new copyright directive.

Wikipedia is saying that these changes, if approved, will threaten the open internet, and Wikipedia with it?


It's the first I've heard of it, so what's it all about?

Discussed in his very forum!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/759130.page

 Graphite wrote:
Discussed in his very forum!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/759130.page

I've been on holiday

Thanks for the ink.

I had forgotten what a beautiful country England was.

The old town of Worcester is lovely in the sunshine.

And Bath as well of course.

beast_gts wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:
In other news. School academies are now using German POW style punishment for children. Isolating them for the whole day without being allowed to talk or do anything else.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/children-isolated-for-7-hours-a-day-in-consequence-booths-at-academies-mp_uk_5b33a1a5e4b0b5e692f35b59?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

If parents did this, social services would be called. However it's fine for schools to do it. Too many school managers rooting for the Germans in the Great Escape?

That's been going on for at least a decade - I left working in education 7 years ago and academies had been doing it for a few years then.

I'm not sure that makes it any more acceptable does it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

[/spoiler]

marvelous.

That looks worse progress wise then a swiss parlamentary trench warfare where a unholly alliance has formed and language groups get involved in a free-for-all-manner.
In fact that looks worse then our dossier in regards to the EU "Rahmenabkommen".

Here is one official response from a cabinet member...

 Whirlwind wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:
In other news. School academies are now using German POW style punishment for children. Isolating them for the whole day without being allowed to talk or do anything else.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/children-isolated-for-7-hours-a-day-in-consequence-booths-at-academies-mp_uk_5b33a1a5e4b0b5e692f35b59?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

If parents did this, social services would be called. However it's fine for schools to do it. Too many school managers rooting for the Germans in the Great Escape?

That's been going on for at least a decade - I left working in education 7 years ago and academies had been doing it for a few years then.

I'm not sure that makes it any more acceptable does it?

I thought the purpose of schools was to educate children? How can you educate a child if you place it in isolation? What a weird country the UK is.

I’m seeing lots of headlines about the dying high street. It occurs to me that the current tax laws are hopelessly out of date and are crippling most traditional bricks and mortar businesses whilst the online giants get off paying it altogether. Time to do a reversal; get the online businesses paying more tax and give tax breaks to the physical stores to reverse the trend and balance out the unfair advantage the online stores have.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I’m seeing lots of headlines about the dying high street. It occurs to me that the current tax laws are hopelessly out of date and are crippling most traditional bricks and mortar businesses whilst the online giants get off paying it altogether. Time to do a reversal; get the online businesses paying more tax and give tax breaks to the physical stores to reverse the trend and balance out the unfair advantage the online stores have.

Everybody's been saying this for 15 years. Our High Streets are crying out for help, but government doesn't seem to give a damn

My nearest hobby shop which has been on the go for 50+ years, is a few pounds more expensive than the online equivalent, but I'm happy to pay 2-3 pounds more on the principal of use it or lose it.

They just about break even from year to year.

Support your local hobby store

 Whirlwind wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:
In other news. School academies are now using German POW style punishment for children. Isolating them for the whole day without being allowed to talk or do anything else.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/children-isolated-for-7-hours-a-day-in-consequence-booths-at-academies-mp_uk_5b33a1a5e4b0b5e692f35b59?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

If parents did this, social services would be called. However it's fine for schools to do it. Too many school managers rooting for the Germans in the Great Escape?

That's been going on for at least a decade - I left working in education 7 years ago and academies had been doing it for a few years then.

I'm not sure that makes it any more acceptable does it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

[/spoiler]


marvelous.

That looks worse progress wise then a swiss parlamentary trench warfare where a unholly alliance has formed and language groups get involved in a free-for-all-manner.
In fact that looks worse then our dossier in regards to the EU "Rahmenabkommen".

Here is one official response from a cabinet member...

Ouch that gonna hurt.
Also the whole isolation thingy for school, honestly if that happened here you could bet your ass that you would get kicked out of school.

A Tory government that isn't seen to be looking out for business and is openly talking about tax increases to fund the NHS is just a mental proposition, these must be two of the most central pillars of modern conservatism and to ignore them should see the support from most of their tradition demographic disappear. The fact they haven't collapsed in the polls is either/both:

A sign of how Brexit has skewed the political spectrum - the ideology of Brexit is more important to most people than their professed political leanings, and see the Tories as the party most likely to deliver (see also - the Christian Right's support of Trump in the US)

A sign of how weak an opposition Labour really has become, whether that's Corbyn specifically or that the party just isn't seen as a government in waiting. A skilled opposition could be doing wonders with such a paralysed and ineffectual government, but Labour have allowed themselves to be just as caught up in the 'mad riddle' ((C) Danny Dyer, Political Consultant) as the Tories have.

At this point I just want someone in the government, (or the top echelons of Labour), to come out and admit that all the red lines, Irish guarantees, promises of economic stability etc are all totally incompatible and admit to the population that large groups of people are going to be severely disappointed in how the process plays out, the government just has to decide who is biting the bullet for the rest of us. Instead it's fudge fudge fudge, promises to both sides that they are driving the agenda, pointless rhetoric of "Brexit means Brexit", so on , so on ad infinitum.

This lazy dishonesty of "Brexit is going to bring everything everybody wants and cost nothing and if we all just chip in a little more we'll have the bestest country ever" is what's grinding us all down I think, and Labour are too scared to stick their head above the parapet to take advantage because when the spotlight is put on Corbyn etc they just repeat a similar mantra "Jobs-first Brexit" "A customs union that lets us do trade deals" etc etc. They too are too scared to be honest with the electorate.

I'm almost at a point where I just don't care what happens, no deal or not. The harder the Brexit the quicker we're back in, as in a single generation we'll have a political class having to deal with the fallout of the current mess and it'll be an easy sell to convince younger demographics (that are already pro-EU) that whatever disasters we're going through would be easily solved by being part of the bloc. The only thing that stops me throwing my hands up and demanding such a scenario is just how screwed the country will be for the 10 or 15 years it takes to happen.

The High street as a goto place for all your shopping needs has pretty much bitten the dust. Councils should look at remodelling what these communal spaces are for, meeting places, social events, food, drink, bonhomie, etc etc
That's pretty much the future. There's a place for shops still, but they need to fill a niche not served online, such as gaming and other lifestyle choices.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I’m seeing lots of headlines about the dying high street. It occurs to me that the current tax laws are hopelessly out of date and are crippling most traditional bricks and mortar businesses whilst the online giants get off paying it altogether. Time to do a reversal; get the online businesses paying more tax and give tax breaks to the physical stores to reverse the trend and balance out the unfair advantage the online stores have.

Everybody's been saying this for 15 years. Our High Streets are crying out for help, but government doesn't seem to give a damn

My nearest hobby shop which has been on the go for 50+ years, is a few pounds more expensive than the online equivalent, but I'm happy to pay 2-3 pounds more on the principal of use it or lose it.

They just about break even from year to year.

Support your local hobby store

It's not just online stores. We have moved from an era of 'smaller' individual shops to shopping centres, including massive 'out of town' set ups. These are generally near high speed transport access, massive amounts of parking and pretty much dedicated to retail all in one location. As a populace we have become more lazy in our shopping habits because there are much more things to do than spend the day in town. In additional road infrastructure in the cities is generally appalling because they are based on a system that might have been designed for the 1800's of horse and cart but is ridiculous in today's era. If you have to spend 1.5 hours simply to get into town during Christmas then it will put people off as you can use that time in a better way. Although online has an impact there are other factors likely at play here. Those that do survive in the towns are generally those in he shopping complexes. However the area has changed. Now the high street is dominated by casino's/slot jockey centres, fast food stores and pawn shops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

I'm not sure that makes it any more acceptable does it?

I thought the purpose of schools was to educate children? How can you educate a child if you place it in isolation? What a weird country the UK is.

It's meant to be a type of punishment for bad behaviour but there are reports that the length of the sentences and reasons for being sent there (e.g. forgetting a pencil, laughing in class) are massively disproportionate. One might suggest cruel and inhumane when you have to sit in an isolation booth for a day and are emotionally torturing a child.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Riquende wrote:
A Tory government that isn't seen to be looking out for business and is openly talking about tax increases to fund the NHS is just a mental proposition, these must be two of the most central pillars of modern conservatism and to ignore them should see the support from most of their tradition demographic disappear. The fact they haven't collapsed in the polls is either/both:

A sign of how Brexit has skewed the political spectrum - the ideology of Brexit is more important to most people than their professed political leanings, and see the Tories as the party most likely to deliver (see also - the Christian Right's support of Trump in the US)

It's probably the perceived threat of this by both parties. A change by the Tories would mean a much bigger hit for them though as the IIRC 75% of Labour supporters actually favour staying in the EU. However it's a risk. If those people defect to the Tories (and Tory centrists don't move across to Labour) then Labour has no chance to win the next GE. I think they are playing a strategic game but at the cost of the country. May is slowly waking up to the fact that the EU are not going to budge on their decisions. She will either have to go the Canada route (and bollox the economy and the Country) or she will have to go the Norway model (and bollox the country in a lesser way), which is effectively EU lite with no say, and lesser access (e.g. Galileo) which will annoy the frothing lunatic fringe of the Tory party. Either way the Tories stand to lose and it will be something Labour will never ever let them forget in the next 50 years (something the Tories try and do now).

 Whirlwind wrote:

Well it looks like reality is really starting to bite. Apparently our top negotiator has told cabinet that there simply is no other choices on the table other than a Canada style trade deal or the Norway model.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-warns-her-cabinet-there-is-now-no-chance-of-a-bespoke-brexit-deal-2018-7?utm_source=reddit.com

That the meeting on Friday is to basically decide which to choose...

Obviously the point of Wrexit is significantly reduced if the option is "stay the same but with less influence"

The EU drew us a chart 2 years ago telling us essentially this. No-one listened to that, so I have no hope anyone will listen to our top negotiator.

Neither of those options is viable with Mays red lines - Norway model means payments to the EU, Freedom of Movement, ECJ. Canada means a massive hit to our services and therefor economy.

But eventually the penny will drop that we're not getting a special deal, and someone will need to disappoint a lot of the public.

Herzlos wrote:


The EU drew us a chart 2 years ago telling us essentially this. No-one listened to that, so I have no hope anyone will listen to our top negotiator.

Neither of those options is viable with Mays red lines - Norway model means payments to the EU, Freedom of Movement, ECJ. Canada means a massive hit to our services and therefor economy.

But eventually the penny will drop that we're not getting a special deal, and someone will need to disappoint a lot of the public.

Don't you mean all the public? One side because they want to stay in, the other side because they want to get out of everything?

Has the EU decided weither or not it’s going to interfere with the Internet? Hopefully it’s something we can avoid as much as possible.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Has the EU decided weither or not it’s going to interfere with the Internet? Hopefully it’s something we can avoid as much as possible.

The vote is going to the European parliament soon. If your MEP is a Tory write to him ASAP because they're in favour of passing the law as proposed.

The Tories certainly seem to be enjoying a more liberal attitude to language, first "feth business" and now "feth the muslims".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/04/sayeeda-warsi-calls-for-inquiry-into-islamophobia-within-tory-party

Eventually the media will pick up on this and demand wholesale, root and branch reform. Obviously.

I usually don't follow English politics. None of my family living abroad live in England, its not on my list of countries I want to visit nor do I plan to retire there. I have no strong feelings or opinions about Tommy Robinson. However Englands growing Orwellian nature troubles me. England is like the blood bank of of ideas, constitutional monarchy, socialism and free market capitalism got their start in England and from there were later spread to the whole world. We should all be concerned that this form of Authoritarian HIV will be spread to Europe and North America.

Democracy cannot function when the government can pass judgement and decide men's fate in secrecy. Tommy Robinson had every right to live stream the outside of a trial because the British people have a right to now about the trial.. His actions not only would have been legal in the United States but many other nations as well. I have a lot of friends who have studied and done business in liberalized Asian Communist nations like China and Vietnam. If they were having a trial like this in China they wouldn't care less if people know about it. You'll get in trouble if you try to undermine the power of the politburo but in a lot of ways their more open about what they do then governments in the west.

I am Irish, I see what Russia has done as an attack on Ireland as well

The Russians are our brothers. They supported our Independence before almost all others.

 Imperial Air Mage V601/20 wrote:
I usually don't follow English politics. None of my family living abroad live in England, its not on my list of countries I want to visit nor do I plan to retire there. I have no strong feelings or opinions about Tommy Robinson. However Englands growing Orwellian nature troubles me. England is like the blood bank of of ideas, constitutional monarchy, socialism and free market capitalism got their start in England and from there were later spread to the whole world. We should all be concerned that this form of Authoritarian HIV will be spread to Europe and North America.

Democracy cannot function when the government can pass judgement and decide men's fate in secrecy. Tommy Robinson had every right to live stream the outside of a trial because the British people have a right to now about the trial.. His actions not only would have been legal in the United States but many other nations as well. I have a lot of friends who have studied and done business in liberalized Asian Communist nations like China and Vietnam. If they were having a trial like this in China they wouldn't care less if people know about it. You'll get in trouble if you try to undermine the power of the politburo but in a lot of ways their more open about what they do then governments in the west.

I am Irish, I see what Russia has done as an attack on Ireland as well

The Russians are our brothers. They supported our Independence before almost all others.

You mean the french and the germans.
The only Independence Russia ever supported on a geopolitical scale is the independence of Switzerland during the first congress of Vienna.
AND that got just barely accepted because Austria wanted to deny Prussia acess to northern Italy and we were a usefull buffer state that allready existed between them and france.
That and switzerland has a tendency to become Balkan 2.0 when you occupy it.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Imperial Air Mage V601/20 wrote:
I usually don't follow English politics. None of my family living abroad live in England, its not on my list of countries I want to visit nor do I plan to retire there. I have no strong feelings or opinions about Tommy Robinson. However Englands growing Orwellian nature troubles me. England is like the blood bank of of ideas, constitutional monarchy, socialism and free market capitalism got their start in England and from there were later spread to the whole world. We should all be concerned that this form of Authoritarian HIV will be spread to Europe and North America.

Democracy cannot function when the government can pass judgement and decide men's fate in secrecy. Tommy Robinson had every right to live stream the outside of a trial because the British people have a right to now about the trial.. His actions not only would have been legal in the United States but many other nations as well. I have a lot of friends who have studied and done business in liberalized Asian Communist nations like China and Vietnam. If they were having a trial like this in China they wouldn't care less if people know about it. You'll get in trouble if you try to undermine the power of the politburo but in a lot of ways their more open about what they do then governments in the west.

I am Irish, I see what Russia has done as an attack on Ireland as well

The Russians are our brothers. They supported our Independence before almost all others.

You mean the french and the germans.
The only Independence Russia ever supported on a geopolitical scale is the independence of Switzerland during the first congress of Vienna.
AND that got just barely accepted because Austria wanted to deny Prussia acess to northern Italy and we were a usefull buffer state that allready existed between them and france.
That and switzerland has a tendency to become Balkan 2.0 when you occupy it.

The RSFSR already recognised the Irish Republic in 1920, before the Anglo-Irish treaty. The Bolsheviks definitely supported Irish independence. It was in accordance with their belief in self-determination and opposition to monarchical empires, and it weakened Great Britain, which was an enemy of the Bolsheviks.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Has the EU decided weither or not it’s going to interfere with the Internet? Hopefully it’s something we can avoid as much as possible.

It's not the internet that is being messed with directly. It is updating of copyright rules and the implications for their use. It applies to all other media as well. The concern is how this might impact internet usage.

If you are up for a read then it can be foudn here:-

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/35373/st09134-en18.pdf

The first thing to note is that is a Directive not a regulation. The GDPR was a regulation when inacted. In effect that means that it comes into force as is across all member states. A Directive means that individual states have the decision how to implement that Directive, so each state will have to decide how it implements this. It's not 'fixed' to a certain methodology.

In terms of the actual rules it appears Article 11 and 13 are giving the most consternation.

Article 11 is more specific. It basically provides copyright to the owners of the original press articles (but does allow their use for research and insubstantial elements of it). basically it prevents farming of news unless agreed by the owner (you can see this yahoo news, google news etc. This could apply to online newspapers that have a pay wall for example. I guess the principle is that if another company earns advertising revenue (like google, yahoo, microsoft etc) using someone else's works is then that fair? (I'd note non for profit website, online encyclopedias are exempt from this I believe). Scribd for example might have difficulties for example as even from a wargaming perspective there are a lot of White Dwarf articles etc.

The risk is that there are unintended consequences. In this thread for example we have to stop copying and pasting whole articles because, I assume, some advertising revenue. However the implementation by individual governments will be key. It may be that ancilliary to main purpose may be considered fair use on the basis that it is 'research' on a topic. We already cannot, for example, paste electronic rules on the site!

Article 13 is I think what causes more concern for a lot of people. It effectively requires companies that allow uploading of content by businesses or the public to put in place measures to minimise copyright breaches. I think youtube is meant to have one of the most developed technologies for this. Such as preventing uploads of the unauthorised music videos etc. I think some of the concerns have been overblown a bit, some are valid. It has been commented that it might stop new businesses coming forward however 13(5)(a) specifically states that small companies have less of a burden to ensure there isn't a copyright breach. I'm also unsure of the 'meme' issue as it is dependent on the users themselves and what and how much they upload. Hence if someone is operating a business creating memes based of other copyrighted work then I think they would fall under the rules. The individual posting the occassional meme is unlikely to be covered because it isn't a proportional response nor does it provide and effective safeguard of copyright to try and prevent this.

The risk is however that because there is little case law internet provides, file hosting sites and so forth take a blunt approach and just ban everything with a potential copyright which then results in a lot less freedom of factual information. That could favour more extreme news outlets that don't request any copyright for their material. Lets suppose "Flat Earth Times" basically allows any usage of their material because it gives them more exposure. If LBC copyrighted the James O'Brien show then there may be a requirement to prevent this being shown on internet media or if the status was unclear then this information may be pulled from being easily accessed on the internet. The outcome subsequently is that we suddenly become more dominated by wacko theories with less rational counterpoint information simply because the former is made up and hence they don't care about copyright. The latter is undertaken by employed people and hence the copyright is cared about but by considering the money first the message becomes diluted