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Typical. I finally get my car fixed and mot’d, ready to drive anywhere I want, and I’m immediately snowed in.

Also, I got another letter from those parking berks. This one is my third ‘very final last’ warning before court action, offering both a reduced amount and offer of paying in instalments. This is getting tiring.

 Darkjim wrote:
Theresa May rejects EU's draft option for Northern Ireland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43224785

So, TM agrees to fudge in December, hails it as great victory.

EU write down fudge.

TM says "no UK prime minister could ever agree".

Except herself, 3 months ago.

I'd be fascinated to hear what she actually though she agreed in December as going back to the *joint* released statement we have:-

The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.

And in the current draft of the EUs document we have:-

DESIRING to create a common regulatory area on the island of Ireland in order to safeguard North-South cooperation, the all-island economy, and protect the 1998 Agreement;
HAVING REGARD to the devolution arrangements between the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland in relation to the common regulatory area;

.....

UNDERLINING that part or all of this Protocol may cease to apply should a future agreement between the Union and the United Kingdom be agreed which addresses the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland, including by avoiding a hard border and protecting the 1998 Agreement in all its dimensions;

So yes they are in effect identical. So hence either May didn't read the agreed document or was hoping magically a solution would be found as she punted the Ireland issue into the *slightly* longer grass. I can imagine the EU will be perplexed and baffled by May's change in view and reinforce to us all that she is effectively clueless of any ideas on the issue.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Red Alert warning for snow issued for where am I up here

First time we've ever had one. If I'm lucky, they'll find my frozen body in the Spring.

I still have a lot of old, rare Citadel miniatures from the 1980s laying around, so my last will and testament is to have them auctioned off and the proceeds donated to dakkadakka.

On a serious note, we often fall out over politics, but best of luck to everybody today and tomorrow with the weather.

Keep warm, and don't travel until you have to.

It's only been relatively recently that the metoffice have forecast such alerts in this way. This weather is nothing compared to what they have had in the US this year or even what we had in 1962/63

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_1962%E2%80%9363_in_the_United_Kingdom

What we should be more terrified of is what is happening at the north pole right now. The temperatures are off the scale relative to the median. It's incredible, but not in a good way.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/27/arctic-warming-scientists-alarmed-by-crazy-temperature-rises

The problem with snow in the UK now is:

1. We are not used to it. (Partly due to global warming.)
We don't have snow chains for our cars because it isn't worth it when you only need them one or two days every 10 years. The last time I wanted snow chains was at the notorious Snow Devil 40K tournament run by Ketara in Canterbury in about 2010.

2. There is twice as much traffic now compared with 62-63.

These points are much less true in the north of England and Scotland, of course, but the bulk of the population is in the south and east.

Also, modern young people don't know they were born. Central heating has made them soft and they don't have the sense to wear a wooly hat and take it off indoors or they won't feel the benefit.

All this being said, climate change is likely to cause more extreme weather events like this, so we need to get better at coping.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The problem with snow in the UK now is:
All this being said, climate change is likely to cause more extreme weather events like this, so we need to get better at coping.

An alternative hypothesis is that if 'the gays' would just cut out all the sodomy then the weather will settle down again.

Whirlwind wrote:...or was hoping magically a solution would be found...

I had a busy day at work so wasn't able to follow the developments closely but I'm pretty sure at some point a statement was put out by someone in Government was that the 3 things that will definitely happen are:

No hard border with the Republic of Ireland
No barriers between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK
No EU interference/customs union, etc

I think I know what the brexit problem boils down to now. Much like our own DINLT, everyone involved in the process is more of a 'big ideas person' and can't really be fussed with the piffling detail, that's for someone else to implement.

The Brexit row lies in the fact that so many people know a Hard Brexit will be a disaster on several levels, but the Hard Brexiteers have influenced May to set down red lines that make a soft Brexit impossible.

 Witzkatz wrote:

And since we are on that topic for a second, even though I'm not posting much here I'm a big fan of this thread and reading it daily. I'm very glad it didn't get locked like the US politics one and everybody is getting along - kind of.

I have to say that as much as I disagree with the opinions of some people here, I do try to listen to them and I think it is worth saying thank you to everyone that we’ve managed to keep the discourse civil and constructive for 250 pages during one of the most politically divisive times in British history.

Cue inevitable, thread locking, flame war in 3...2...

 Riquende wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The problem with snow in the UK now is:
All this being said, climate change is likely to cause more extreme weather events like this, so we need to get better at coping.

An alternative hypothesis is that if 'the gays' would just cut out all the sodomy then the weather will settle down again.

Whirlwind wrote:...or was hoping magically a solution would be found...

I had a busy day at work so wasn't able to follow the developments closely but I'm pretty sure at some point a statement was put out by someone in Government was that the 3 things that will definitely happen are:

No hard border with the Republic of Ireland
No barriers between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK
No EU interference/customs union, etc

I think I know what the brexit problem boils down to now. Much like our own DINLT, everyone involved in the process is more of a 'big ideas person' and can't really be fussed with the piffling detail, that's for someone else to implement.

Its that the big ideas make not one ounce of sense.

I apologise to my fellow British dakkaites for voting leave. I'm not sold on the EU project but, damn, I'm at a loss. Our incumbent leadership couldn't even buy a car with their current strategy.

The opposition is still as clueless.

 Mr. Burning wrote:


Its that the big ideas make not one ounce of sense.

I apologise to my fellow British dakkaites for voting leave. I'm not sold on the EU project but, damn, I'm at a loss. Our incumbent leadership couldn't even buy a car with their current strategy.

The opposition is still as clueless.

It's called an infinite loop problem. Each idea leads to a problem with the next and you try and solve that then this leads to a problem with the next and so on. It doesn't matter who you are, whether Churchill, Queen Victoria or Isaac Newton these problems would exist for all of them in the same situation. Bizarrely though the actual solutions are easy, it's the political will to make one of them and suffer the consequences.

If the government is dead set on having control of everything and not let NI/Scotland/Wales have it's own set of rules then that implies a hard border everywhere - We sacrifice potentially the NI peace process and have to accept the consequences.
To have our own set of rules for the UK but an open border between NI/EIRE (and potentially Wales and Scotland) - This requires a border between NI and the UK (and Wales / Scotland?). The Tories sacrifice their majority and we have another election (with potentially Tories losing power) although whether DUP will not continue to support the Tories in major votes is an open question as they definitely don't want Labour.
To have an open border between NI/EIRE and NI/RoUK - This requires remaining in the custom union and freedom of movement. Tories lose the UKIP crowd back to UKIP and again they lose control at the next GE. We basically get the EU but without any say (however most businesses will have to comply anyway).

They are *relatively* (and I say this lightly because each still has a host of principles to deal with but are general ideas on a theme) simple solutions. The political appetite is what is the problem for any of these options.

As for voting. You don't need to apologise for voting the way you did. We do so for our own reasons. However it takes a lot of inner strength to stand up and say that given the additional information you might have voted in a different way. To critically analyse what you did and why is vastly more important. Yes the EU is far from perfect but then is anything?

 Riquende wrote:

I think I know what the brexit problem boils down to now. Much like our own DINLT, everyone involved in the process is more of a 'big ideas person' and can't really be fussed with the piffling detail, that's for someone else to implement.

Someone on twitter posted this a couple weeks ago, and I always felt it fit all those big ideas people.

"Watching Brexit is like watching someone try and plug a coaxial aerial cable into a HDMI port. There is a lot of anger, a lot of swearing, and a lot of remarks about how this used to work before."

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:


Its that the big ideas make not one ounce of sense.

I apologise to my fellow British dakkaites for voting leave. I'm not sold on the EU project but, damn, I'm at a loss. Our incumbent leadership couldn't even buy a car with their current strategy.

The opposition is still as clueless.

It's called an infinite loop problem. Each idea leads to a problem with the next and you try and solve that then this leads to a problem with the next and so on. It doesn't matter who you are, whether Churchill, Queen Victoria or Isaac Newton these problems would exist for all of them in the same situation. Bizarrely though the actual solutions are easy, it's the political will to make one of them and suffer the consequences.

If the government is dead set on having control of everything and not let NI/Scotland/Wales have it's own set of rules then that implies a hard border everywhere - We sacrifice potentially the NI peace process and have to accept the consequences.
To have our own set of rules for the UK but an open border between NI/EIRE (and potentially Wales and Scotland) - This requires a border between NI and the UK (and Wales / Scotland?). The Tories sacrifice their majority and we have another election (with potentially Tories losing power) although whether DUP will not continue to support the Tories in major votes is an open question as they definitely don't want Labour.
To have an open border between NI/EIRE and NI/RoUK - This requires remaining in the custom union and freedom of movement. Tories lose the UKIP crowd back to UKIP and again they lose control at the next GE. We basically get the EU but without any say (however most businesses will have to comply anyway).

They are *relatively* (and I say this lightly because each still has a host of principles to deal with but are general ideas on a theme) simple solutions. The political appetite is what is the problem for any of these options.

As for voting. You don't need to apologise for voting the way you did. We do so for our own reasons. However it takes a lot of inner strength to stand up and say that given the additional information you might have voted in a different way. To critically analyse what you did and why is vastly more important. Yes the EU is far from perfect but then is anything?

Er, Whirlwind, you missed an option, which allows us to retain democratic input into the regulations that we will have to comply with anyway, maximises our economic benefits and gives us a stronger voice on the world stage; remain in the EU.

 Jadenim wrote:

Cue inevitable, thread locking, flame war in 3...2...

Scone rhymes with stone.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

Cue inevitable, thread locking, flame war in 3...2...

Scone rhymes with stone.

It rhymes with gone you heathen lout!

 Steve steveson wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

Cue inevitable, thread locking, flame war in 3...2...

Scone rhymes with stone.

It rhymes with gone you heathen lout!

The correct order is jam followed by cream.

Rees-Mogg on John Major: "Contempt of European elite for democracy."

John Major grew up in a working class household in Brixton and left school at 16 with 3 O-levels.

Jacob Rees-Mogg was born to a future life peer, grew up in a Grade II listed building and was privately educated his entire life.

Paid for his school fess after his dad gave him £10k or so to invest in the stock market.

The Dail Mail once again is howling with outrage at the utter contempt for democracy that is the prospect of Parliament voting on things.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The Dail Mail once again is howling with outrage at the utter contempt for democracy that is the prospect of Parliament voting on things.

Well, they are a constant in these topsy turvey times.


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 reds8n wrote:

Rees-Mogg on John Major: "Contempt of European elite for democracy."

John Major grew up in a working class household in Brixton and left school at 16 with 3 O-levels.

Jacob Rees-Mogg was born to a future life peer, grew up in a Grade II listed building and was privately educated his entire life.

Paid for his school fess after his dad gave him £10k or so to invest in the stock market.

Rees-Mogg is an example to all of us of limited means. Only £10k the poor darling..

They cost a fortune for window cleaning, those old places.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The problem with snow in the UK now is:

1. We are not used to it. (Partly due to global warming.)
We don't have snow chains for our cars because it isn't worth it when you only need them one or two days every 10 years. The last time I wanted snow chains was at the notorious Snow Devil 40K tournament run by Ketara in Canterbury in about 2010.

Reminds me of the year I spent in England. Whole winter snowless...Except for one day with very light snow. You could still see asphalt below it. Teacher was all "if it gets any worse let's go home". Bus station was nuts. And I thought it amusing until bus started to go down that steep steep road that wasnt' wide enough for cars coming from other direction pass the bus without bus going to pedestrian path. And I remembered these have same tyres probably as they have in summer. At that point it suddenly became lot less amusing

BTW snow chains are some seriously heavy duty. I have never used those nor needed in finland. We have 2 types of winter tyres. One with studs and one with something else(which aren't quite as good doing their job but don't cause as much enviromental issues as studs that asphalt doesn't deal well with).

As someone who spends a good portion of the year up in the arctic circle part of Norway, I couldn't help but giggle at the sheer panic going on down in the south. It is genuinely funny, it's about an inch here right now. Still, screw the trains in this weather.

Because Norway and Finland have it on a regular basis. Everyone owns winter tyres and they change them over every year. We get snow once every 5 or 6 years in the UK, which generally lasts a day or two. Oddly enough most people don't see the need to spend £400-500 on a spare set of tyres that will probably be used for a week. We could be set up for it but it's just not worth it.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

Cue inevitable, thread locking, flame war in 3...2...

Scone rhymes with stone.

It rhymes with gone you heathen lout!

You’re both wrong.

It’s ‘Skoon’. As in the town of Scone in Scotland. Origin of the Scone, and the Stone Of Scone,

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

Cue inevitable, thread locking, flame war in 3...2...

Scone rhymes with stone.

It rhymes with gone you heathen lout!

You’re both wrong.

It’s ‘Skoon’. As in the town of Scone in Scotland. Origin of the Scone, and the Stone Of Scone,

The correct answer is scone rhymes with cone.

For the record how it's pronounced is entirely geographical:

Scone or Scone, pfft, the key question is; should it have fruit in it?

 Jadenim wrote:
Scone or Scone, pfft, the key question is; should it have fruit in it?

A) no it doesn't and if you think it does then it's transportation for you boyo

B) let's get to topic guys all fun to have a breather from the seriousness but let's not fill up too much with it

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/boris-johnson-could-face-investigation-over-thames-garden-bridge

It would be nice to think Boris will face some sort of sanction for blowing nearly £50M on nothing whatsover, but he'll just do his usual schtick even if he faces a hearing. Or he could do what he did yesterday in the HoC when faced with an awkward question, and just shuffle out to cries of 'coward'.

Our next PM.

John Major tears into Theresa May's strategy as 'grand folly'

All the big guns are lining up with the same messages.

Deadnight wrote:



The correct answer is scone rhymes with cone.

For the record how it's pronounced is entirely geographical:

Come on, it's obviously pronounced 'S-Kon-eeee'

Nigel Farage is still on QT, puffed up like the blubbery, pink bullfrog that he is.
However, what's interesting is that the support from the crowd in Blackpool for his bluster and hyperbole is quite lacklustre. Considering that's a Leave heartland, it's quite interesting.

 r_squared wrote:
Nigel Farage is still on QT, puffed up like the blubbery, pink bullfrog that he is.
However, what's interesting is that the support from the crowd in Blackpool for his bluster and hyperbole is quite lacklustre. Considering that's a Leave heartland, it's quite interesting.

'Won' yet has failed, repeatedly.

Got cushy jobs on back of his 'successes'.

Friends with Trump.

I would argue that Farage could now be seen (as he always was) part of the establishment, thus his words are ringing hollow to die hard leavers and 'kippers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43251320

Oh goody. I can’t wait until we’re on our own on WTO terms having to accept diktats like this.

In other news, May is either totally deluded or lying through her teeth:

“She will say the EU referendum result was a vote to "take control of our borders, laws and money" but was "not a vote for a distant relationship with our neighbours".”

I think you have missed what drove the leave vote Mrs Prime Minister.

Also:
“That any deal must respect the referendum result” regardless of whether political opinion in the country has changed in the years since the non-binding, advisory, referendum.

“That any deal must not break down” despite making totally unreasonable/unrealistic demands for the EU to abandon their core principles.

“That any deal must protect jobs and security” but within the ludicrous, self-imposed, red lines they’ve already decided, which make this almost impossible.

“That any deal must be "consistent with the kind of country we want to be" - modern, outward-looking and tolerant” again, not consistent with the core of leave voters “no more immigrants” message.

“That any agreement must bring the country together” HAHAHAHA! Only even vaguely possible if you were willing to offer concessions to the remain voters, e.g. continued membership of the single market and customs union, offering a final referendum to validate the result, etc. But all of these options have already been ruled out in favour of the hardest, most extreme, Brexit possible, in order to placate the right wing minority of the Tory party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43250035