UK & EU Politics Thread

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**Howard A Treesong**

Most workload problems in teaching come from senior staff in individual schools trying to meet targets and Ofsted demands. It’s going to need some sort of culture change, because the government doesn’t dictate workloads directly, it’s the people running schools. Saying that ‘mocksteds’ put too much pressure on staff is good, but the government don’t tell schools to do them. Senior staff in schools choose to do them. And as long as they are trying to look after their jobs and it’s within their power to do them, mocksteds will continue. The constant demands for data will continue because senior staff want them, ours go beyond what the government require for example. Every school I’ve been at is the same. There’s plenty of research showing marking kids’ books doesn’t improve results, but to ‘show progress’ every school I’ve been at demands teachers mark books, which is vastly time consuming for anyone doing a lot of lessons.

Academisation is partly a problem because some schools use their autonomy to take the piss with demands heaped on staff, and unions are in a weakened position to fight back. Parents are very demanding and senior staff appease them at the expense of the workload their staff already carry. The behaviour of senior staff in some free schools I’ve known of is disgusting, a shocking workload placed on their staff and a culture of bullying. Cuts to schools mean they run on the minimum number of staff, meaning everyone has more work and lessons to do. Teacher retention is a serious problem because younger teachers are the ones teaching the most lessons, they are the bread and butter of schools yet these are the ones being driven out by workloads and badly run schools, especially for schools and academy chains.

**Future War Cultist**

A list of things we can do after Brexit. It’s the VAT and Flight Duty opportunities that interest me the most. We have exemptions but the Commission is always trying to close them down. They have to find ways to keep funding those perks of theirs. Also, Mrs Fish could actually bring in her minimum pricing for alcohol without the ECJ bitching about it, in addition to control of Scottish waters. This is why I backed it. To have the ability to actually run our internal affairs without being blocked by the Byzantine EU machine.

**Riquende**

Seriously? One of the big benefits of Brexit is going to be a return to duty free shopping? Filling up your boot with cheap cigarettes & vodka at the ferry terminal is well worth the price of everyone being generally poorer and not being able to just afford those luxuries normally.

Since before the referendum, I've been saying I'm yet to see a single worthwhile reason for leaving. Still holds true.

**Kilkrazy**

There will be a seriously embarrassing decline of duty free shopping when people find out they can't fly/drive back from Spain/France/Italy with as much fags and booze as they like, and have to pay Customs on entry to the UK.

Still, it does sound good that we won't have to worry about the Commission doing something it hasn't managed to do in the last 45 years. Well worth an 8% decline in GDP, IMO.

**reds8n**

https://qz.com/642811/the-eu-will-finally-allow-member-states-to-scrap-their-tampon-tax/

European Union member states will now be able to choose whether they want to subject women to a tax on their tampons and sanitary pads.

Spurred by the UK, the EU voted on Mar. 17 to allow member states to have more flexibility on reducing the value added tax (VAT) on goods—with a special provision to get rid of the VAT on sanitary products, nicknamed the “tampon tax” when applied to female hygiene products.

EU member states apply a VAT of between 17% to 25% (pdf, p.3) to most goods, with a reduced VAT for items considered “necessary,” such as medicines and, in certain states (including the UK), sanitary products. Until now, the UK and any other state willing to give female hygiene products (along with other sanitary products) an exemption on VAT had to get the EU’s permission in order to do so. When it’s passed into law, however, this week’s resolution—unanimously adopted by 28 country leaders—will allow member states to have more flexibility on imposing reduced VAT on goods, with a specific provision allowing for zero tax “on option for sanitary products.”

from March 2016.

AS for the Scottish stuff ..well...

Scotland under the current proposals, will in fact lose power , with a lot of it being devolved back to London :

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/972045498839392261

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/frameworks-analysis

TLDR : Scotland loses what control it does have , Fisheries is one of the 24 "common framework" powers being re-centralised in London.

..Think you might find Scotland was rather keen on remaining in the EU anyway.

Sturgeon is for sure.

The nationalisation thing...

.. hmm.. yeah, that could be an issue.

It really depends upon how it's done :

http://brexitcentral.com/labour-unable-nationalise-rail-new-eu-rules/

"Under the new rules, it will be technically possible to have a state monopoly on rail, if rail franchises are subject to competition and state-controlled bodies manage to win every contract.

**A Town Called Malus**

Kilkrazy wrote:
There will be a seriously embarrassing decline of duty free shopping when people find out they can't fly/drive back from Spain/France/Italy with as much fags and booze as they like, and have to pay Customs on entry to the UK.

Still, it does sound good that we won't have to worry about the Commission doing something it hasn't managed to do in the last 45 years. Well worth an 8% decline in GDP, IMO.

Also, that article highlights the tampon tax as an example of where we'll have new powers to make changes.

Even though the EU is well aware of this issue as it was raised with them before the referendum by David Cameron and were working on a solution which gave member states more leeway in setting VAT rates.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35834142

**Herzlos**

Sums Brexit up pretty well though; taking back control to do what we could have done anyway.

**Kilkrazy**

Chancellor Philip Hammond refuses to confirm that Brexit is "worth it".

A second referendum on Brexit is a legal requirement...
Allegedly, under a 2011 law which the government is trying to scrap ASAP, but campaigners are working to prevent them doing it.

Truly Brexit Britain is the clown car that keeps on rolling however many parts fall off or catch fire.

**GoatboyBeta**

Kilkrazy wrote:

Truly Brexit Britain is the clown car that keeps on rolling however many parts fall off or catch fire.

And if we were not all locked in said clown cars boot it would be hilarious

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Can’t remember if I’ve said it before....

But has anyone else noted that the Arch Brexiteers are still, even at this late hour, continuing to simply make promises they’ve no idea they can actually keep? As if they’re trying to convince themselves that it’s actually a good idea?

**Herzlos**

I think the plan is to blame the eu for everything when it goes wrong, do they may as well try to keep their voters happy in an attempt to get re-elected.

**jouso**

Herzlos wrote:
I think the plan is to blame the eu for everything when it goes wrong, do they may as well try to keep their voters happy in an attempt to get re-elected.

They can blame the US, too.

The UK will have to “concede everything” to get a trade deal with Donald Trump’s America, US policy experts have warned MPs.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/uk-must-concede-everything-for-us-trade-deal-1-4703683

**Techpriestsupport**

jouso wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
I think the plan is to blame the eu for everything when it goes wrong, do they may as well try to keep their voters happy in an attempt to get re-elected.

They can blame the US, too.

The UK will have to “concede everything” to get a trade deal with Donald Trump’s America, US policy experts have warned MPs.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/uk-must-concede-everything-for-us-trade-deal-1-4703683

And in all fairness America deserves to be blamed for a lot.

**Kilkrazy**

Irrelevant to the thread, though.

**Techpriestsupport**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Irrelevant to the thread, though.

Not necessarily. Even if England suffers as a side effect of Brexit in trade with the U. S. the political spin in it could be 'blame America' which would be British politics.

**reds8n**

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/25m-for-5g-projects-on-the-anniversary-of-the-uks-digital-strategy

tucked away in there...

The Strategy also reflects the Government’s ambition to make the internet safer for children by requiring age verification for access to commercial pornographic websites in the UK. In February, the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) was formally designated as the age verification regulator.

Our priority is to make the internet safer for children and we believe this is best achieved by taking time to get the implementation of the policy right. We will therefore allow time for the BBFC as regulator to undertake a public consultation on its draft guidance which will be launched later this month.

For the public and the industry to prepare for and comply with age verification, the Government will also ensure a period of up to three months after the BBFC guidance has been cleared by Parliament before the law comes into force. It is anticipated age verification will be enforceable by the end of the year.

If you recall this was supposed to roll out next month

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-shut-down-porn-6168615

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-camerons-porn-crackdown-could-7380745

bodes well for all those hi-tech border controls and the like eh ?

or the registration of 3 million odd EU citizens.

Inside 12 months.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/uk-must-concede-everything-for-us-trade-deal-1-4703683

The UK will have to “concede everything” to get a trade deal with Donald Trump’s America, US policy experts have warned MPs. Taking evidence in Washington this week, MPs on the Commons defence committee were told that Britain was in a weak position and would be used as a “guinea pig” for a “harsh” new US trade policy. Concerns have also been raised across the Atlantic about the UK becoming a “little England” on defence if it is forced into further cuts to defence spending as a result of a post-Brexit downturn, putting its position as the America’s foremost military ally at risk. The warnings come in the week that President Trump imposed tariffs on imported steel and aluminium, hitting struggling British industries while sparing America’s “real friends”, Canada and Mexico.

US authorities also warned that vital aviation agreements with the UK could be downgraded after Brexit, while American business leaders demanded Britain give up EU protections for such as Scotch whisky and allow competition from cheaper foreign imitations. SNP MP Martin Docherty-Hughes, who sits on the committee, said: “We were told by senior advisers to the Trump administration that they have great respect for the UK, but if you can’t move a division to the front within 10 days, you aren’t really able to do very much.” He added: “We’re not even out of the EU yet and we’re being hit with trade tariffs, and we are afforded no protection by being in the so-called special relationship. “It’s whimsical, wishful thinking to believe that Brexit will lead either to greater trade or more investment in our military.”

Dr Tom Wright, director of the Centre on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution think tank, said the US had “maximum leverage” in any trade negotiation and would demand the UK open its market to American imports and adopt lower standards and regulations. “In these bilateral trade talks, the Trump administration’s policy is to see Britain in a relatively weak position and to try to maximise their advantage,” he told MPs.
“[President Trump] believes that the US ought to be in surplus with every country in the world… the British deal is a guinea pig for what they would want.” Dr Wright added: “When you add it all up, [US Trade] Secretary Ross is essentially saying, ‘The US will do a deal with the UK, you just basically need to concede everything.’”

On defence, MPs were told by former Assistant Secretary of State for European and Affairs Victoria Nuland that “if you end up with serious economic repercussions from Brexit, you may not be able to afford what you are currently spending, let alone the reinvestment that is required.” She added: “The hope is that out of all of this comes a greater Britain, not a little England, because we will be very lonely out there defending the planet if that is what happens.”

brilliant.

Whilst on Sunday Rees-Mogg said that the Brexit dividend should go to the NHS.

.. even though we've just established there isn't a brexit dividend and Brexit is hurting the NHS further.

**Kilkrazy**

Parliament paralysed as Brexit delays vital votes

The Times reports that the Government is getting business through Parliament at the slowest rate in recent history, because they don't have a commanding majority.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have voters changed their minds about Brexit?

TL/DR: Yes, but it's not that simple when you look at the details.

Generally, there now seems to be a 52:48 opinion against Brexit, but what actually would happen at a second referendum would be a shake-up based on lots of different things such as what questions were asked (and the weather, etc.)

**BaronIveagh**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Irrelevant to the thread, though.

Not really. The nitty gritty of trade with the US quickly becomes mired in the politics of the US.

**Techpriestsupport**

Just out of curiousity, do people in England feel better about their government given what's happened to America?

**Kilkrazy**

Please don't introduce US politics into the thread.

I'm as interested as you to discuss Trump, and gun control, and so on, but that whole area of topics is off limits because it just leads to terrible arguments.

**SeanDrake**

So let me get this right.
Boris states "Russias smug response is a sign of their Guilt" everything is hunky dory.

If Corbyn suggests we should wait until samples are assessed by the OPCW as is required by our international treaties, and he's a putin apologist.

Sigh.

The tories took 10 years to do not much about the Linvinenko Pollonium poisoning.
Pretty much ignored the 14 murders inbetween.
And now, in less than 10 days has gone all tub-thumping shouty crackers?

What gives?

I think we all know what gives!

May wants her falklands moment, she also wants to get rid of Corbyn and hide the ongoing car crash of brexit, and the 40+ years of Tory chickens coming home to roost, and it has worked, for a day or so at least.

**Whirlwind**

SeanDrake wrote:
So let me get this right.
Boris states "Russias smug response is a sign of their Guilt" everything is hunky dory.

If Corbyn suggests we should wait until samples are assessed by the OPCW as is required by our international treaties, and he's a putin apologist.

Sigh.

The tories took 10 years to do not much about the Linvinenko Pollonium poisoning.
Pretty much ignored the 14 murders inbetween.
And now, in less than 10 days has gone all tub-thumping shouty crackers?

What gives?

I think we all know what gives!

May wants her falklands moment, she also wants to get rid of Corbyn and hide the ongoing car crash of brexit, and the 40+ years of Tory chickens coming home to roost, and it has worked, for a day or so at least.

I agree that this is a diversion away from Wrexit. The problem May will have is that if she only throws out Russian 'diplomats' then that's a relatively weak response. The Tories do also have the problem that a broad attack on Russian assets might undermine their own income (why we ever think foreign donations to political parties is a good idea is beyond me). In the end she is unlikely to come out strong because of the limited options she has entangled herself with. She can't run off and invade Russia to annex what has been invaded. She's not even winning the propaganda war on the issue on social media because of Russian bots/accounts.

As for Corbyn his approach was wrong. Rather than allowing right wing media to portray him as supporting Russia. I agree that this information should be released as per international agreements. But I would go further and play a better game against May. Tell her to release the information to the world so anyone can access it (not the exact chemical make up of the nerve gas). Horrify the world in terms of what its effect does reinforcing that it could be any civilian. Turn the world against their own media machine and prove beyond doubt where it came from. That would have been a better response from Corbyn and meet both the correct idea that facts come first, but also making clear that you support your own civil service rather than allow it to be used as raising questions.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Yeah...I'm with Corbyn.

**Ketara**

I'm not entirely sure what information beyond what it was, who dun it, and how far it spread (excluding the chemical formula), could be released that would somehow change/alter the situation in any substantial way.]

I mean, you could release the data from the heart monitor of the officer in hospital, or an additional statement from a chemical analyst saying, 'Yup, it's Novichok', but it wouldn't really add much. Neither would releasing the extensive police file where they walk around and ask for witness testimonies. 'I saw it officer, they fell right over! Looked really sick too!'

I mean, it's a basic chemical analysis. If you're not going to release the in depth details of your scientific diagnosis, and you've already attributed it, there's not much left beyond people echoing what you've already said, the basic detective legwork, and 'people' stories. Corbyn asking for the favourite flavour crisps of the critically ill spy to be released isn't going to do much for his image.

**Steve steveson**

SeanDrake wrote:
So let me get this right.
Boris states "Russias smug response is a sign of their Guilt" everything is hunky dory.

If Corbyn suggests we should wait until samples are assessed by the OPCW as is required by our international treaties, and he's a putin apologist.

Sigh.

The tories took 10 years to do not much about the Linvinenko Pollonium poisoning.
Pretty much ignored the 14 murders inbetween.
And now, in less than 10 days has gone all tub-thumping shouty crackers?

What gives?

I think we all know what gives!

May wants her falklands moment, she also wants to get rid of Corbyn and hide the ongoing car crash of brexit, and the 40+ years of Tory chickens coming home to roost, and it has worked, for a day or so at least.

I don't doubt that there is some attempt from May to divert from the car crash of Brexit, but how many of those murders involved poisoning 21 other people and putting hundreds of others at risk. The UK could manage to ignore Russian behaviour when it was confined to murdering ex spy's and political dissidents. Not so much when it starts dragging in innocent bystanders.

The question to ask is why the Russians want the sample.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Yes. Thats crossing a line, when their assassination attempts start causing mass casualties.

We're too far gone now.

**Wyrmalla**

They've even said that they know the exact plant the chemical was produced in. The only reason they want the sample is to put their usual brand of casting doubt on the situation. Look at how they handled the MH17 fiasco (spoiler, they mishandled it for months, before saying "yeah, we didn't do it. Must have been the Ukrainians").

As I've said in every other thread about the Russians being implicated for something, its like arguing the sky is blue. You could present them with a mountain of evidence, but they'll still come out with unsubstantiated claims either saying it wasn't them, or blaming someone else. If they hadn't committed this attack then they would have attended the meeting where they were asked to respond to the allegations. Instead they went on state media and: threatened the West with nuclear weapons, called Britain Nazis, and blamed: Britain for attacking itself, the CIA, Ukraine, and a few other smaller post-Soviet states.

To which the British government responded: "if you're going to treat us and International Law like its all a piece of dirt on your boot then we don't care about what your response is".

Meanwhile the French have come out as saying they're implementing sanctions on the Russians regardless of the 10 day waiting period, upon review, and saying it was the Russians regardless.

**Mr. Burning**

Whirlwind wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
So let me get this right.
Boris states "Russias smug response is a sign of their Guilt" everything is hunky dory.

If Corbyn suggests we should wait until samples are assessed by the OPCW as is required by our international treaties, and he's a putin apologist.

Sigh.

The tories took 10 years to do not much about the Linvinenko Pollonium poisoning.
Pretty much ignored the 14 murders inbetween.
And now, in less than 10 days has gone all tub-thumping shouty crackers?

What gives?

I think we all know what gives!

May wants her falklands moment, she also wants to get rid of Corbyn and hide the ongoing car crash of brexit, and the 40+ years of Tory chickens coming home to roost, and it has worked, for a day or so at least.

I agree that this is a diversion away from Wrexit. The problem May will have is that if she only throws out Russian 'diplomats' then that's a relatively weak response. The Tories do also have the problem that a broad attack on Russian assets might undermine their own income (why we ever think foreign donations to political parties is a good idea is beyond me). In the end she is unlikely to come out strong because of the limited options she has entangled herself with. She can't run off and invade Russia to annex what has been invaded. She's not even winning the propaganda war on the issue on social media because of Russian bots/accounts.

As for Corbyn his approach was wrong. Rather than allowing right wing media to portray him as supporting Russia. I agree that this information should be released as per international agreements. But I would go further and play a better game against May. Tell her to release the information to the world so anyone can access it (not the exact chemical make up of the nerve gas). Horrify the world in terms of what its effect does reinforcing that it could be any civilian. Turn the world against their own media machine and prove beyond doubt where it came from. That would have been a better response from Corbyn and meet both the correct idea that facts come first, but also making clear that you support your own civil service rather than allow it to be used as raising questions.

You I and Corbyns mother can see his approach is wrong. His front bench has been doing its best to 'refine' his position. I dont think he is a traitor, I do think that this incident has exposed further shortcomings. Its getting harder to separate his principled positions from entrenched dogma.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yeah...I'm with Corbyn.

I'm still not entirely sure what HE is with. Certainly his party don't seem to know.

**Whirlwind**

Ketara wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what information beyond what it was, who dun it, and how far it spread (excluding the chemical formula), could be released that would somehow change/alter the situation in any substantial way.]

I mean, you could release the data from the heart monitor of the officer in hospital, or an additional statement from a chemical analyst saying, 'Yup, it's Novichok', but it wouldn't really add much. Neither would releasing the extensive police file where they walk around and ask for witness testimonies. 'I saw it officer, they fell right over! Looked really sick too!'

I mean, it's a basic chemical analysis. If you're not going to release the in depth details of your scientific diagnosis, and you've already attributed it, there's not much left beyond people echoing what you've already said, the basic detective legwork, and 'people' stories. Corbyn asking for the favourite flavour crisps of the critically ill spy to be released isn't going to do much for his image.

It's more about the psychology of the situation. Publish the effects, graphic images etc. Make it horrific and horrifies the world about what these chemicals do. It's easy to ignore and turn away from the three people that it has majorly effected (and god knows how many in small doses) for most of the world. If you psychologically persuade people of the consequences then you may get a greater reaction. Go to the UN with graphic images and make people puke if that is needed. It may be gross but it won't be forgotten especially when that is focused on a few elements of the Russian government. Make people understand the human cost (rather than being political ping pong) both to the public, media and so forth.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr. Burning wrote:

I'm still not entirely sure what HE is with. Certainly his party don't seem to know.

He's a pacifist. Which is fine when you are talking to rational people. The problem is Putin is sociopath and being a pacifist isn't going to work around such traits.

**Steve steveson**

Pacifism has nothing to do with it. I’m a pacifist (although not an absolute pacifist) but no one is talking of war or killing anyone. If he is a pacifist then he should be roundly condemning a government that acts to kill its own citizens in this way and supporting anything to stop them killing more people.

I may just have the wrong view of him, but I can’t help thinking it’s because of a misplaced loyalty for a state that no longer exists that many aging socialists seem to have for the Russia.