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 Rippy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So close combat attacks are only made on your turn (short of special abilities). That renders things like Unwieldy pointless since your attacks all occur on your turn. While this means you aren't going to be wiping out units on your opponent a turn and it halves the amount attacks you are going to make over the period of the game, I am okay with it.

The ability to make a free 3" move basically means all charge distances have a 6" minimum (snakeeyes+3"+1" you need to be within in order to attack). So that is actually pretty good.

No I believe you both strike still in each other's turn, just whoever made the assault gets to hit first?

Then after first turn, you take it in turns choosing who hits first. Alternate activation of units.

I think I understand it now. If there are multiple combats going on, you each select a unit from any of those combats and make your attacks. Then select a different unit. From the looks of it, the player whose turn it is always chooses first. So if there is only one combat, the turn player goes first.

Overall, I am fine with this. Especially if my Death Company are going to be able to freely bounce into another combat and continue to wreck face. I am hoping Power Fists do additional wounds. Same with Thunder Hammers, though with Concussive gone, I wonder how those two weapons will be differentiated.

Looks like I will need to make Pedro Kantor a Command Squad to run with him. Pistols and Power Weapons for everyone. Possibly some Power Fists. That or he will be rolling with a Terminator Squad in a Land Raider Crusader.

Yuup. Melee is gonna be a flaming pile of trash, just as expected.
Really looking forward to not using 8th rules for this ugly abomination of a phase.

 nintura wrote:
So instead of spreading your models out 2" to avoid blasts, now you gotta spread your units out so they don't get dragged in

Wouldn't that lead to players clumping their units together to increase distance between their other units? Assault units might spread out to increase the chance to hit more units I suppose.

Don't forget that Assault marines will have pistols they can fire into melee as well. Same for Orks, and Khorne Berzerkers, etc.

I might actually take that plasma pistol upgrade for some extra punch (depending on the profile).

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Yuup. Melee is gonna be a flaming pile of trash, just as expected.
Really looking forward to not using 8th rules for this ugly abomination of a phase.

Seriously. How do you go on living with such a negative view of life and everything in it.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
For the lazy.
Will highlight some interesting bits

Units that activate gain a free 3″ move towards the closest enemy. This can be used to get within 1″ of other enemy units, if you’re cunning, dragging more foes into the melee and preventing them from shooting next turn, even if you didn’t charge them directly (giving them no chance to overwatch). Enemy gun lines will need to be careful about how they position their supporting units, so as to avoid getting dragged into the fight too.

Following chargers, players take it in turns to activate units across the board to fight – this can get quite tactical, as both players need to choose the combats where dealing maximum damage will be important to them, while trying to limit enemy retaliation on their valuable or fragile models.

Welp. if anyone was hoping for IG infantry armies to become viable, that's dead on arrival, back into the tanks with everything

Just don't put all of the IG blobs together!!

There are fundamental issues of tablespace to deal with when you have 90-150 models on the table, there just isn't enough room to deploy everything and keep adequate spacing much of the time.

Will be funny seeing IG blobs literally blobbing and bunching together as much as possible to reduce distance to the next unit after 5 editions of everyone spacing out their hordes as much as possible.
Shoving everything together will definitely take much less time away from the game though .

Some FB comments already asked if P. Fists and T. hammers are unwieldy, and GW says they will reveal soon for using such "cumbersome heavy" weapons. So there must still be some sort of penalty.

Perhaps just a blanket rule like, enemy models in b2b always attack first unless wielding the same (unwieldy) type, then hits are simultaneous.

changemod wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Completely random charges as the default over ideal conditions (like open ground) are a bad game mechanic that doesn't make sense. Imagine if shooting units had to take a leadership check with increasing penalties every 3" from the target just to fire at all and they only got one chance at it as standard. They should have gone back to a constant charge distance individualized for each unit or at worst some combination of constant plus variable with increasing variability for worsening conditions like difficult terrain. It adds nothing to the game and is just randomness for randomness's sake.

It's not a bad mechanic at all. You mean it's a mechanic you don't like.

He gave a clearly defined reason for calling it bad, that has more substance than simple statements as to whether or not an opinion is an opinion.

Nope. He gave an opinion and then explained his opinion.

Just like people giving their opinion in a positive manner aren't proving it's a "good" mechanic.

It's like people trying to prove that red or blue is the better colour

 kodos wrote:
DeusExMachin on GW-Fanworld made some nice graphs to comapere different dice rolls for charge

So someone at GW-Fanworld understands how a bell curve works. Fantastic.

Still doesn't change that 2D6 charge is really silly.

As for D6"+6" removing "player choice", what kinda of nonsense is that?

 nintura wrote:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Yuup. Melee is gonna be a flaming pile of trash, just as expected.
Really looking forward to not using 8th rules for this ugly abomination of a phase.

Seriously. How do you go on living with such a negative view of life and everything in it.

Oh please, go on. I love when total strangers on the internet somehow posses a full and complete knowledge of me and the way I live.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Some FB comments already asked if P. Fists and T. hammers are unwieldy, and GW says they will reveal soon for using such "cumbersome heavy" weapons. So there must still be some sort of penalty.

Maybe they'll be To Hit modifiers?
I can't really see models with them activating separately to the rest of their unit. I mean, I wouldn't put it past GW but still...

Know what we've not had confirmation of, which I expected today? +1 attack from charging. Maybe that's gone too in favour of the pistol rule?

Vorian wrote:

It's like people trying to prove that red or blue is the better colour

*Cough cough*, Ork vehicles, *cough cough*

Interesting, seems to me that horde armies will be most capable of taking advantage of the 3" move to engage previously in engaged units. You should be able to use your own models to block out enemy models and pour through gaps that you open in the enemy's lines.

 Forcast wrote:
Don't forget that Assault marines will have pistols they can fire into melee as well. Same for Orks, and Khorne Berzerkers, etc.

I might actually take that plasma pistol upgrade for some extra punch (depending on the profile).

If it doesn't accidentally kill my Marines on a bad roll, the Plasma Pistol might be a better option than the Flamer. I am opting to take the Meltaguns off my assembled Blood Angels Assault Squad and putting Inferno Pistols in their place. Being able to go BLAM! in close combat is going to be awesome.

The only rulechange I am worried about so far is not capping stats at 10. This leaves way to much room open for the DBZ effect. (You know Freeza going from strongest being in the universe to being a pushover that everyone can beat 1 season later) But then again, it all depends on how they implement those rules so w8 and see...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Some FB comments already asked if P. Fists and T. hammers are unwieldy, and GW says they will reveal soon for using such "cumbersome heavy" weapons. So there must still be some sort of penalty.

Maybe they'll be To Hit modifiers?
I can't really see models with them activating separately to the rest of their unit. I mean, I wouldn't put it past GW but still...

That was my thought. A -1 to attack would probably be okay. Considering that, currently, my only Power Fist is on a character that will likely be hitting on 2s (probably 3s now), I am okay with that. It never made sense that they hit last anyway. Your opponent should have an easier time dodging them.

At this point i think we can rule out the +1 attack (is an abomination with AoS style melee weapons).

Still, i think that i'm back to painting tyranids, this edition seems to finally have fixed assault armies.

Dragging more units into the fight is extremely easy even with small bases, it's a basic move that everyone pulls out in AoS.

 nintura wrote:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Yuup. Melee is gonna be a flaming pile of trash, just as expected.
Really looking forward to not using 8th rules for this ugly abomination of a phase.

Seriously. How do you go on living with such a negative view of life and everything in it.

Context applies here:

All week GW have been dropping sly hints that there's some huge new deal in assault that makes the nerf to combat being able to withdraw at will represents.

Then the assault preview comes out, and nope: What we already knew plus a niche-case way of doing a multi-charge whilst only facing one overwatch.

How do we know assault orientated units don't get a benefit for charging, maybe models with jump packs get an extra 3" so your guaranteed a charge at 5".
Rules in a vaccuum guys.

 Mantle wrote:
How do we know assault orientated units don't get a benefit for charging, maybe models with jump packs get an extra 3" so your guaranteed a charge at 5".
Rules in a vaccuum guys.

I would put money on the fact that jump packs you're going to just flat-out make the models equipped with them extremely fast either by increasing their charge distance or increasing their move distance and letting them reroll charges

Vorian wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Completely random charges as the default over ideal conditions (like open ground) are a bad game mechanic that doesn't make sense. Imagine if shooting units had to take a leadership check with increasing penalties every 3" from the target just to fire at all and they only got one chance at it as standard. They should have gone back to a constant charge distance individualized for each unit or at worst some combination of constant plus variable with increasing variability for worsening conditions like difficult terrain. It adds nothing to the game and is just randomness for randomness's sake.

It's not a bad mechanic at all. You mean it's a mechanic you don't like.

Well I guess it boils down to do you want to win a game because you outmaneuvered your opponent and engaged their key unit in a decisive assault, breaking their line and halting their battle plan, or do you want to win a game because you rolled an 8 on 2D6 when you needed to?

40K has had fixed assault/charge ranges more than it hasn't, all the way up to 5th, and it's no coincidence that the editions that seem to be generally considered the worst to play are the ones where random charge are a feature.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Vorian wrote:

It's like people trying to prove that red or blue is the better colour

*Cough cough*, Ork vehicles, *cough cough*

Red one is faster but blue one is luckier. But which is better?????

The Fight Phase sounds kinda fun. Initiative is now 'take it if you want it, but you'll get to go 2nd somewhere else'. Adds a tactical level. I'll be intrigued to see how it plays out.

 davou wrote:

changemod wrote:

 davou wrote:
ooooooh man, 3 inch pile into new combats!

Yeah, but it won't come up often.

If you've got a mult-model unit on particularly large bases you have a decentish chance of pulling this off, but otherwise having to pile -towards- the -closest- enemy limits any opportunity.

eh, I dunno about your games, but I can make this work like gangbusters; Using a drop pod to slingshot along into a squad sitting on an objective for instance. We've also heard tell that IC are not allowed to be IN units anymore, so if we can expect them to be nearby, then we can use this catch them. Or if a squad leaves combat with you, you can use a charge against them in your next turn to try and cover distance to the other squads that haven't been chewed up yet.

I agree that this is more useful than it may appear.

Leggy wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Vorian wrote:

It's like people trying to prove that red or blue is the better colour

*Cough cough*, Ork vehicles, *cough cough*

Red one is faster but blue one is luckier. But which is better?????

DA OBVIUS ANSWER IS TA MIX DA RED AND DA BLU INTA A PUROPLE AND PAINT ALL YOUR KIT WIT IT YA GIT!

***faaaaaabulous****

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Yuup. Melee is gonna be a flaming pile of trash, just as expected.
Really looking forward to not using 8th rules for this ugly abomination of a phase.

Melee has been the worst, dumbest phase in the game from both a fluff and gameplay perspective for years, there is literally nowhere to go but up.

Eyjio wrote:Hormagaunts don't get to have a contingency plan for failing a 4" charge - they just die.

Well then it's a good thing your army doesn't consist of just a single unit of Hormagaunts then, isn't it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

Leggy wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Vorian wrote:

It's like people trying to prove that red or blue is the better colour

*Cough cough*, Ork vehicles, *cough cough*

Red one is faster but blue one is luckier. But which is better?????

DA OBVIUS ANSWER IS TA MIX DA RED AND DA BLU INTA A PUROPLE AND PAINT ALL YOUR KIT WIT IT YA GIT!

***faaaaaabulous****

Wait. Now you can't see your Trukk. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Yuup. Melee is gonna be a flaming pile of trash, just as expected.
Really looking forward to not using 8th rules for this ugly abomination of a phase.

Seriously. How do you go on living with such a negative view of life and everything in it.

Context applies here:

All week GW have been dropping sly hints that there's some huge new deal in assault that makes the nerf to combat being able to withdraw at will represents.

Then the assault preview comes out, and nope: What we already knew plus a niche-case way of doing a multi-charge whilst only facing one overwatch.

Good thing you have the much more assault army friendly 7th edition ruleset to fall back to now that you announced that you won't be playing 8th edition.
.
.
.
Pffffff, could barely keep a straight face while typing that.

 EnTyme wrote:

Eyjio wrote:Hormagaunts don't get to have a contingency plan for failing a 4" charge - they just die.

Well then it's a good thing your army doesn't consist of just a single unit of Hormagaunts then, isn't it?

True, it doesn't consist of any at all - why risk the charge when termagants get perfectly good guns?