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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Canonically he already had it: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Apparently he just took his old chair back.

High lordS of terra. Notice the plural. There's many of them. Dubious any one of them at least before Guillimann return could really be considered in complete charge of Imperium's army. Not even Guillimann before he got stasified.

I wouldn't count on a ton of weapons having longer than a 1" range. Pole weapons and Lances are about the only thing I would expect. And that will require balancing anyway since a longer reach weapon should cost more than a short one.

But, it does make the fact I am leaning Taser Lance over Radium Jezzail a little easier on me.

I'm ready for someone to just leak this whole damned ruleset.

Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm ready for someone to just leak this whole damned ruleset.

You're in luck...Games Workshop should be doing that within a month or two!

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Canonically he already had it: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Apparently he just took his old chair back.

High lordS of terra. Notice the plural. There's many of them. Dubious any one of them at least before Guillimann return could really be considered in complete charge of Imperium's army. Not even Guillimann before he got stasified.

The title was still his though. Regardless of actual authority wielded by the mortals that stood in for him, it's not like he stole something that wasn't his.

That said I'm just glad to see the story going forward instead of retconning things into existance.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Melee weapon ranges make the consolidation move more important now it seems. And means anyone who can't hit can try to drag other units into melee since they're not actively engaged.

Its a HUGE nerf to horde armies!

 Elbows wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm ready for someone to just leak this whole damned ruleset.

You're in luck...Games Workshop should be doing that within a month or two!

Ugg. I can't do another month of this daily stuff. Going to go nuts.

 jhnbrg wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Melee weapon ranges make the consolidation move more important now it seems. And means anyone who can't hit can try to drag other units into melee since they're not actively engaged.

Its a HUGE nerf to horde armies!

Hard to overstate, in fact. Before you could expect about three rows of Hormagaunts to get to attack.

Hrrrrmmm - melee weapon ranges is* sorta* cool, except that a bolter should have a melee weapon range of like 24". Does this mean that ONLY troops within an inch can fight? That is potentially cool, and also potentially a huge pain in the butt - and base size matters. I line up my ultrakilly death guys in a line vs. your horde. If you're on 32mm bases, only one guy can fight each of my guys because one base back is more than an inch away. Probably you can cram in a bit more than that, but not much. While a line of elite dudes holding back the tide is great, A) base size really counts and I have no intention of rebasing, B) you could see serious arguments about how many dudes can fight, and C) they may not have bothers balancing that.

So, after about six years of being absent from wh40 and this forum I am back...

what's changed?

lol

 jhnbrg wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Melee weapon ranges make the consolidation move more important now it seems. And means anyone who can't hit can try to drag other units into melee since they're not actively engaged.

Its a HUGE nerf to horde armies!

On paper and taking into consideration the piddling amount of information about the new edition and the various melee weapons in the game, yes that is true. But this game was play tested very heavily and I can't imagine that a kick in the shins like this would really make it past all that extra work without being addressed and handled.

Let's save any panic over how bad the game is until we can actually try it out. Without everything in front of us it's easy to claim all sorts of things are basically worthless, nerfed to death, ect, but without everything we're just jumping at shadows.

Melee weapon ranges work fine in AoS.

With most infantry type models (25-40mm bases), you'll typically be getting two staggered rows attacking with a 1" range weapon. If you have a 2" range weapon, you'll typically get 3 staggered rows. It depends on specific placement. There are a few 3" range weapons, but those are rare. Halberds and the like. I could see the Custodes Guardian Spear being a 2-3" range weapon.

Given that different models have different weapons, it makes sense that a dude with a spear can reach more models than a dude with a dagger.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Canonically he already had it: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Apparently he just took his old chair back.

High lordS of terra. Notice the plural. There's many of them. Dubious any one of them at least before Guillimann return could really be considered in complete charge of Imperium's army. Not even Guillimann before he got stasified.

The title was still his though. Regardless of actual authority wielded by the mortals that stood in for him, it's not like he stole something that wasn't his.

That said I'm just glad to see the story going forward instead of retconning things into existance.

But my point is it's unlikely that position gave him ultimate authority(he was one of many) even then so if he now has ultimate power either GW retconned or that's new change after he woke up. Ie he usurped himself power he didn't have.

 Red Corsair wrote:

OK what? That is one of the silliest hurdles I have ever seen a person put up. Chess is a VERY basic core rule design and EVERY piece has it's special rules that let it function uniquely so it isn't just a pawn.

And, again, that isn't the problem. You've misunderstood what I was saying.

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Canonically he already had it: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Apparently he just took his old chair back.

High lordS of terra. Notice the plural. There's many of them. Dubious any one of them at least before Guillimann return could really be considered in complete charge of Imperium's army. Not even Guillimann before he got stasified.

The title was still his though. Regardless of actual authority wielded by the mortals that stood in for him, it's not like he stole something that wasn't his.

That said I'm just glad to see the story going forward instead of retconning things into existance.

But my point is it's unlikely that position gave him ultimate authority(he was one of many) even then so if he now has ultimate power either GW retconned or that's new change after he woke up. Ie he usurped himself power he didn't have.

There's a precedent for Space Marines taking over when the High Lords have screwed things up though.

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Canonically he already had it: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Apparently he just took his old chair back.

High lordS of terra. Notice the plural. There's many of them. Dubious any one of them at least before Guillimann return could really be considered in complete charge of Imperium's army. Not even Guillimann before he got stasified.

The title was still his though. Regardless of actual authority wielded by the mortals that stood in for him, it's not like he stole something that wasn't his.

That said I'm just glad to see the story going forward instead of retconning things into existance.

But my point is it's unlikely that position gave him ultimate authority(he was one of many) even then so if he now has ultimate power either GW retconned or that's new change after he woke up. Ie he usurped himself power he didn't have.

Back when he held the seat the mortals of the High Lords of Terra were people appointed by the Emperor and Malcador, they'd likely defer to RG's decisions out of respect to him being the Big E's son.

But that's just my speculation of course.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Melee weapon ranges make the consolidation move more important now it seems. And means anyone who can't hit can try to drag other units into melee since they're not actively engaged.

Its a HUGE nerf to horde armies!

On paper and taking into consideration the piddling amount of information about the new edition and the various melee weapons in the game, yes that is true. But this game was play tested very heavily and I can't imagine that a kick in the shins like this would really make it past all that extra work without being addressed and handled.

Let's save any panic over how bad the game is until we can actually try it out. Without everything in front of us it's easy to claim all sorts of things are basically worthless, nerfed to death, ect, but without everything we're just jumping at shadows.

Its been playtested by a bunch of waac power gamers that will decide how games should be played, i VERY little confidence in them getting horde armies playable. All they want is small fast playing armies that are quick to paint.

feth this, i will leave until I can see the complete new rules.

Time to get back to painting i guess...

Removing Natfka rumour from OP.

There is a video on Youtube were GW themselves explain piling in in AoS. The rule basically says, if you can move closer to a model you are allowed to pile in. He then goes into explaining the model 1/2" away from a model can pile in to the other side of the model. And the models behind him may move forward. But the models that are behind other models run into an issue that they cannot pile in because they aren't able to move closer to the fight.

It is very clear on how pile in works at least for AoS. And since, these two systems appear to be identical. I would guess they work the same.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
O bought lychguard after the reboxing this fall. 25mm bases, pissed me off. There are some boxes that still have the wrong base size in them which is annoying, I understand if it's the old packaging, but it shouldn't be in the newer boxes.

So you mailed Geedubs and got replacements ent, yes? Cos they'd do that in a heartbeat.

I'm nor doing any panicking over rumours. Even then, I'll play people with more sense of fun than to try "Your Marines are on 25mm I AUTO WIN HAH!"

Thats not the point, I had MDF 32mm bases for the whole army already, but what annoyed me was the box art had them on 32mm as it was the new packaging yet the box actually it was 4 boxes all had 25mm.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Back when he held the seat the mortals of the High Lords of Terra were people appointed by the Emperor and Malcador, they'd likely defer to RG's decisions out of respect to him being the Big E's son.

But that's just my speculation of course.

True his view obviously held quite an authority in itself. But he didn't have absolute command like Horus had when he was Warmaster. Whole point was to prevent 2nd Horus.

tneva82 wrote:

But my point is it's unlikely that position gave him ultimate authority(he was one of many) even then so if he now has ultimate power either GW retconned or that's new change after he woke up. Ie he usurped himself power he didn't have.

I don't think it has been said that he has any sort of ultimate authority, at least not de jure. He is 'just' one of the High Lords. I'm sure the other High Lords could oppose him if they had balls to do so.

 Dutch508 wrote:
So, after about six years of being absent from wh40 and this forum I am back...

what's changed?

lol

Read the OP for incoming changes in 8th. Read 7th edition rule book to know current state. Compare the two.

tneva82 wrote:
Whole point was to prevent 2nd Horus.

No, that's just what Guilliman wants you to think. The whole point was to hand over the ultimate authority (or as close as he could manage) to Guilliman.

 Kriswall wrote:
Melee weapon ranges work fine in AoS.

With most infantry type models (25-40mm bases), you'll typically be getting two staggered rows attacking with a 1" range weapon. If you have a 2" range weapon, you'll typically get 3 staggered rows. It depends on specific placement. There are a few 3" range weapons, but those are rare. Halberds and the like. I could see the Custodes Guardian Spear being a 2-3" range weapon.

Given that different models have different weapons, it makes sense that a dude with a spear can reach more models than a dude with a dagger.

That's not "fine". If GW is trying to speed up the game then a 2" kill zone was super quick now you have measure each individual models weapon range to an opposing model? There was no reason to introduce a weapons range when 2" from a friendly model in BTB worked great for many editions.

There aren't a lot of primarchs left to say he cannot have his position back. And I doubt any space marines would ever question the word of a primarch. They are kind of brainwashed to believe everything related to them.

Youn wrote:
There aren't a lot of primarchs left to say he cannot have his position back. And I doubt any space marines would ever question the word of a primarch. They are kind of brainwashed to believe everything related to them.

Except it's been 10,000 years since any has seen one and during the Heresy you had a ton that rebelled against their own Primarch.

 insaniak wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

OK what? That is one of the silliest hurdles I have ever seen a person put up. Chess is a VERY basic core rule design and EVERY piece has it's special rules that let it function uniquely so it isn't just a pawn.

And, again, that isn't the problem. You've misunderstood what I was saying.

No I really haven't, your suggesting the core rules require minimum to zero patching elsewhere or else it's poor game design, which is an arbitrary hurdle you have made up. Your welcome to disagree with their method, but suggesting something is poor design because it doesn't follow some arbitrary criteria you personally have is hogwash. Plenty of other successful games have rules found on the individual unit/product card. MTG is a glaringly obvious example of why your wrong. And yes, plenty of cards only function because of the rule on there card, a rule found on a profile can both make a unit unique AND function.

 jhnbrg wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Melee weapon ranges make the consolidation move more important now it seems. And means anyone who can't hit can try to drag other units into melee since they're not actively engaged.

Its a HUGE nerf to horde armies!

On paper and taking into consideration the piddling amount of information about the new edition and the various melee weapons in the game, yes that is true. But this game was play tested very heavily and I can't imagine that a kick in the shins like this would really make it past all that extra work without being addressed and handled.

Let's save any panic over how bad the game is until we can actually try it out. Without everything in front of us it's easy to claim all sorts of things are basically worthless, nerfed to death, ect, but without everything we're just jumping at shadows.

Its been playtested by a bunch of waac power gamers that will decide how games should be played, i VERY little confidence in them getting horde armies playable. All they want is small fast playing armies that are quick to paint.

feth this, i will leave until I can see the complete new rules.

Time to get back to painting i guess...

It was tested by Tournament Organizers who usually spend all their time trying to re-balance 40k into something playable in a competitive setting. Your hyperbole is noted though and frankly is as unhelpful to any true discussion over the changes the edition is bringing as it is uninformative of the actual facts involved.

So basically the typical knee-jerk reaction that I should expect from the internet.

Stepping back for the new rules is probably the best move though. I'm still rather excited but I liked what AoS looked like when it came out and this looks like AoS 2.0. It has a lot from AoS, but hasn't stripped the game down completely. Plus we're gaining new levels of granularity. Concealment (like Smoke Launchers) has a to-hit penalty while cover (like walls) increases armour saves. The modifiers won't likely be huge, but it's enough to already start pushing tactics on which is the best protection for a given model at a given time. Not to mention stacking both means you become harder to hit and hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kirasu wrote:

Youn wrote:
There aren't a lot of primarchs left to say he cannot have his position back. And I doubt any space marines would ever question the word of a primarch. They are kind of brainwashed to believe everything related to them.

Except it's been 10,000 years since any has seen one and during the Heresy you had a ton that rebelled against their own Primarch.

Looking at how some chapters treat the Codex Astartes, I'd say the brainwashing is still real.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Melee weapon ranges work fine in AoS.

With most infantry type models (25-40mm bases), you'll typically be getting two staggered rows attacking with a 1" range weapon. If you have a 2" range weapon, you'll typically get 3 staggered rows. It depends on specific placement. There are a few 3" range weapons, but those are rare. Halberds and the like. I could see the Custodes Guardian Spear being a 2-3" range weapon.

Given that different models have different weapons, it makes sense that a dude with a spear can reach more models than a dude with a dagger.

That's not "fine". If GW is trying to speed up the game then a 2" kill zone was super quick now you have measure each individual models weapon range to an opposing model? There was no reason to introduce a weapons range when 2" from a friendly model in BTB worked great for many editions.

How could measuring everyone within 1" of an enemy model be any more difficult than measuring everyone within 2" of one of your own models in base to base? In fact, it's easier, since you don't have to care about who is in base to base and who fell just short of base to base. It's actually much easier.