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It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

I really dislike this change and think it is a huge step backwards.

I love it. It's nice to have flexibility in what I can take. I can take a bunch of Scouts to go with my Tactical Marines now and still get the full benefits of the detachment.

Lots more Elites slots now for those Dreadnoughts I'll be fielding too.

Great choice for GW to nuke formations and put people back to using battle forged without unlikely allies. Hopefully this brings sanity back to the game,

HOWEVER, as usual.. there is a bizarre decision.

The most common restriction is that all units in a single Detachment must share a faction keyword (Tyranid, Blood Angels or Imperium for example).

Seems fair, you can use all units in the Tyranid Faction or I can use all the units in the IMPERIUM faction to build my list! Why even have any other faction?? Maybe that just means stuff like Inquisition.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

These are three of a great many detachments to choose from though.

Looks interesting.

So long as they balance out the existing armies (i.e. they don't balance the tax of taking Fire Warriors against the boost of taking Eldar Jetbikes), this would go a long way towards evening the playing field and removing the worst of the formation abuses.

There will still be the Faction-specific detachments, if rumors/statements hold true, that might unbalance things one way or the other...

But yeah, I'm happy with this.

to expand... somewhere on the dataslate for a Dark Angel Tactical squad would be :-
keywords: Imperium, Space Marine, Dark Angel

Azreal might have the special ability:
"All models with the Dark Angels keyword within 12" have +1 Leadership."

Or something like that.

Cheers
Mark

 Kirasu wrote:
Great choice for GW to nuke formations and put people back to using battle forged without unlikely allies. Hopefully this brings sanity back to the game,

HOWEVER, as usual.. there is a bizarre decision.

The most common restriction is that all units in a single Detachment must share a faction keyword (Tyranid, Blood Angels or Imperium for example).

Seems fair, you can use all units in the Tyranid Faction or I can use all the units in the IMPERIUM faction to build my list! Why even have any other faction?? Maybe that just means stuff like Inquisition.

To help avoid Deathstars I guess - and I suspect there may be as yet unexplored rules about how Deatchments in a single army interact. Perhaps along the lines of Command Benefits can only be spent within their own Detachments, and the same for character special rules? So He'Stan's super-duper flamers can never help out SoB for instance?

TonyL707 wrote:
If HQ's are required for all armies now it suggests some changes to Harlequins and Skitarii, combined Admech confirmed? Or at least crossover keywords.

This is only a fraction of the detachments. The Q&A said there would be like thirteen detachments or so.

In Age of Sigmar units have keywords at the bottom. For example:

Orruks say:
DESTRUCTION, ORRUK, GREENSKINZ, ORRUKS

Meaning they are part of Grand Alliance of Destruction, Type Orruk, Type Greenskin, Type Orruks.
The last one is almost always the units name.

An Orruk Warboss says:
DESTRUCTION, ORRUK, GREENSKINZ, HERO, ORRUK WARBOSS

You will notice he is a Hero. Which means in AoS he cannot join units and has some special rules.

He also has abilities on his warscroll that effect a special type of unit:

Great Waaagh! Banner:
An Orruk Warboss with a Great Waaagh! Banner
gains the Totem keyword. You can re-roll
all wound rolls of 1 for Orruk units from
your army that are within 16" of a Great Waaagh! Banner when they attack in the combat phase.


So, as written his waaagh only effects Orruk units. This means while acting as a totem he is best paired with units of that type.

Eyjio wrote:

New detachments - WTF? Command points have to be extraordinarily powerful for this system to work; if they aren't, expect to see a lot of 1x patrol detachment+ actual army 2. Seriously, this looks no different to the 6e system which was very breakable, even without keywords. I know it says TOs can limit the number of detachments taken, but really, that's always been the case. It might actually be worse - if there's no ally rule restrictions (and I'm assuming if there were, they'd be mentioned), then what would stop you adding, say, a Farseer to an Ork army? Seems dumb, I can't imagine the command points having enough impact to mitigate this at all.

I mean there may be specific ally restrictions but even if there aren't, with the system of Tags that Farseer is only going to be buffing that unit of Guardians or Dire Avengers your brought to meet the Patrol requirements. As there are no generic psychic powers which buff units (unlike Mystic Shield in AoS) I suspect all faction psychic powers which buff units will only apply to units with particular tags.

I think the biggest takeaway from this article is the fact that they didn't tease the next article for tomorrow. This makes me believe they will be announcing preorders tomorrow since they said very clearly at the start of these teasers that they will be releasing an article every day until release. If no article is teased or planned for tomorrow we may be on the eve of release or preorders.

The new battle forged armies are pretty sweet too. Looks like it will be much easier to take an "allied detachment" with just one HQ and Troop required. Also cultists get rhinos potentially.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

These are three of a great many detachments to choose from though.

You cannot tell me that I can build a list using my Stealth Suits, Pathfinders, Piranhas, and Ghostkeels under the showcased Detachments.

Formations were far, far superior.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Essentially, Keywords are how your army will interact.

So for instance Guilliman might have abilities that affect Ultramarines, and Ultramarines is a Keyword for the unit, separate from the noun Ultramarine (I've used bold to help illustrate).

So for Guilliman, only Ultramarines could benefit from (the entirely made up) special rule Ultramarines Are The Best. Whereas the (equally entirely made up) Astartes Are Pretty Good In General Though would affect Astartes, which for the purpose of illustration each and every Space Marine unit would have as a keyword.

Ah, ok. So units such as HQs can buff other units and the keywords let us know which units get the effects? Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Thanks very much

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
I keep seeing this Keyword thing cropping up but could anyone be kind enough to explain what it is? I feel like I've missed something important. Thanks!

In AoS, each unit has a set of Keywords that define what type of unit it is. This impacts various abilities. Assuming the AoS keyword system is used...

An Ultramarines Captain might have the following keywords... "Imperium of Man; Adeptes Astartes; Ultramarines; Captain"
A Blood Angels Tactical Squad might have the following keywords... "Imperium of Man; Adeptes Astartes; Blood Angels; Tactical Squad"

Any ability that affects Imperium of Man or Adeptes Astartes units will affect both. Any ability that affects Blood Angels will only affect the second unit.

In AoS, it was common for a Skaven commander dude to have abilities that only worked on units with the Skaven keyword. You could take whatever "troops" you wanted, but it made the most sense to take Skaven troops to take advantage of the commander dude's abilities.

SO... you COULD use Imperium of Man as your common faction keyword and build a force org chart out of a variety of units, but that Ultramarines Captain you take will only benefit other Ultramarines units. In that way, players are encouraged to take the same "sub factions". Synergy falls apart when you fracture your force.

What does it mean by may take one for each other choice under dedicated transports?

 Kirasu wrote:
Great choice for GW to nuke formations and put people back to using battle forged without unlikely allies. Hopefully this brings sanity back to the game,

HOWEVER, as usual.. there is a bizarre decision.

The most common restriction is that all units in a single Detachment must share a faction keyword (Tyranid, Blood Angels or Imperium for example).

Seems fair, you can use all units in the Tyranid Faction or I can use all the units in the IMPERIUM faction to build my list! Why even have any other faction?? Maybe that just means stuff like Inquisition.

Likely because there will be a Blood Angel only Detachment that gets crazy good bonuses so you would pick that instead of Imperium and be forced to bring other Imperial units in a different detachment.

In AoS (I know, again), the more specific the keywords of your army, generally the better it works together thanks to buffs, synergies, or just plain army bonuses.

I wonder if everything will follow the same basic ratios or if there will be anything that allow for more of one thing but less of another. Perhaps something like more fast attack slots but less heavy support.

I liked the idea of the special snowflake detachments of formations from 7th but this should lead to better balancing, particularly if they re-balance points yearly.

 Mantle wrote:
What does it mean by may take one for each other choice under dedicated transports?

Exactly what it says.

For each other choice you make(Troops, Fast Attack, whatever) you can take a Dedicated Transport.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
I keep seeing this Keyword thing cropping up but could anyone be kind enough to explain what it is? I feel like I've missed something important. Thanks!

Its something you see in a number of game systems from Malifaux to Heroscape.

Basically a given model or unit can have one of more "keywords" so for instance IMPERIUM, ASTARTES, SORORITAS, HERO, ELDAR, DAEMON etc

Then you can simply say that a given effect, ability or similar effects a unit or model with that Keyword:

So Saint Celestine may add +1 to the Leadership of All IMPERIUM units, she might give +2 Leadership to all SORORITAS units. She might receive +1 to hit versus DAEMON units

Its a nice slick system that allows you to do lots of things in a intuitive way.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Looks interesting.

So long as they balance out the existing armies (i.e. they don't balance the tax of taking Fire Warriors against the boost of taking Eldar Jetbikes), this would go a long way towards evening the playing field and removing the worst of the formation abuses.

There will still be the Faction-specific detachments, if rumors/statements hold true, that might unbalance things one way or the other...

But yeah, I'm happy with this.

Provided Jetbikes remain Troops and don't shift back to Fast Attack.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

These are three of a great many detachments to choose from though.

You cannot tell me that I can build a list using my Stealth Suits, Pathfinders, Piranhas, and Ghostkeels under the showcased Detachments.

Formations were far, far superior.

They only showed three, and then said there would be around 12 (iirc) basic ones in the book and more for each specific faction. So there very well could be a Tau one that allows only suits. And also some of those units you listed might become Troops in the new edition.

But please, tell us how it's bad before we have all the information instead.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

I really dislike this change and think it is a huge step backwards.

More specifically than what people have said already, GW also said that all formations currently playable can be made from these detachements, so I assume one of them mimics the Skitarii battle maniple.

Wow transports thing is huge am i reading it right in that you can take a transport for 'every' force org slot you take.

Surely units will have to have the inbuilt option for transports as that's gonna be silly otherwise.

That Brigade Detachment though....

Like... wow.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

These are three of a great many detachments to choose from though.

You cannot tell me that I can build a list using my Stealth Suits, Pathfinders, Piranhas, and Ghostkeels under the showcased Detachments.

Formations were far, far superior.

We don't even know if all the units you listed are going to be in the same slots they were previously or what keywords they will have or the other 6 detachments they didn't show us or if you will even want to take those units. Also, formations were not superior, they were silly additions to the game that artificially "fixed" and "buffed" certain armies with little to no downsides while other armies gained nothing. They completely broke any semblance of balance the game had over time. I'm glad the core rules put everyone on an even playing field so the army rules can manipulate them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
What does it mean by may take one for each other choice under dedicated transports?

Exactly what it says.

For each other choice you make(Troops, Fast Attack, whatever) you can take a Dedicated Transport.

So everyone can take dedicated transports as usual but there is a maximum limit if you ever went to that points level

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

These are three of a great many detachments to choose from though.

You cannot tell me that I can build a list using my Stealth Suits, Pathfinders, Piranhas, and Ghostkeels under the showcased Detachments.

Formations were far, far superior.

That's right. We can't tell you that. But nor can you claim it, because there's a boatload of detachments we're yet to see. So we're all flying blind.

There must be unit limits, it makes little sense to be able to take a rhino if you took a predator

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's unwelcome to me. I enjoyed formations.

I despise the "1 HQ 2 Troops" methodology. I loved Skitarii for not having an HQ.

I really dislike this change and think it is a huge step backwards.

Formations in 7th Ed that had been given to all armies and/or points costed would have potentially worked - instead they were flung out willy nilly to power dexes to boost them further and begrudgingly given out to any one else.

Now from those posts it looks like formations will still be there (its even in the first line!) just not called that.

 andysonic1 wrote:
I think the biggest takeaway from this article is the fact that they didn't tease the next article for tomorrow. This makes me believe they will be announcing preorders tomorrow since they said very clearly at the start of these teasers that they will be releasing an article every day until release. If no article is teased or planned for tomorrow we may be on the eve of release or preorders.

The new battle forged armies are pretty sweet too. Looks like it will be much easier to take an "allied detachment" with just one HQ and Troop required. Also cultists get rhinos potentially.

They haven't been posting on the weekends, so no guarantee of anything tomorrow.