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Splog wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
It just makes sense on the consumer side. There have been (to date) seven major rulebooks or revamps of the game mechanics. We've arbitrarily assigned edition numbers to them.

That's the opposite of arbitrary.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

On an unrelated note to Splog's face, I'm sad to see Cadia still existing. This was the best opening for GW to re-do Guard and move away from the "Cadian Pattern" everything. The Cadia aesthetic is old and tired (never that interesting to begin with). Would have liked to have seen GW launch a new wave, perhaps even some options instead of the same thing. I'll be sad if they re-do Guard and choose to stick with the same thing again for the next 10 years. It doesn't hurt anyone's armies if you ditch Cadia (unless you're in the middle of building one - eBay would have you covered anyway). They can simply be Cadian regiments/battalions/armies off-world at the time and still in service to the Imperium.

Boo. Hiss.

Splog wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
It just makes sense on the consumer side. There have been (to date) seven major rulebooks or revamps of the game mechanics. We've arbitrarily assigned edition numbers to them.

That's the opposite of arbitrary.

No, we could have just as easily arbitrarily assigned letters to them instead. Or named them after deserts.

Hmm,Warhammer 40K: Cookies 'n' Cream Edition actually has a nice ring to it.

Meh. Decent update today, would have preferred more detail but it is what it is. I do wonder what's going to happen to all the background that used to be in the BRB, is it all going to be put on the website, or is it going to be dispersed through other means?

I'm very excited about the update tomorrow. The "biggest models in the game" must be super heavies and gargantuans, which are currently the biggest flaws in the game balance - some, like the Baneblade, are fluffy but useless; others, like the Wraithknight, I'd prefer to be melted down and never mentioned again. Seeing what they can do now will be very interesting now that stomp will have to change (no blast template) and D Weapons are now presumably mortal wound weapons; that's not even mentioning that the Knight's ion shield no longer has "facings". Weird they're being shown before MCs and normal vehicles though, might be another post extremely light on detail. Either way, they're going to be drastically changing somehow.

Or they are counting monstrous creatures and vehicles as the biggest models since they said that superheavy and gargantuan units aren't a separate category anymore...

 Rippy wrote:
War Zone: Cadia

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/06/new-warhammer-40000-war-zone-cadia-may6gw-homepage-post-4/

The Imperium reinforces the heck out of the rest of the Cadian gate and Chaos goes around it

 adamsouza wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
So 40k is getting AOSed... we are getting something like an End Times, we just don't call it that way cause we will upset people... I really wanna see where the game is going but I can tell you right now I don't like the direction.

It feels less like end times and more like the glory days of 2nd edition, but with some rules simplification.

I have over a $1000 worth of codexes invalidated by 8th edition, but so far I am really liking the announced changes.

The only thing I'm sad to see go is summoning, but I understand how it was a problem .

The preview information on assault has already given me faith the Orks and Tyranids will do better in 8th than they have in last few editions.

If Cult Ambush rules make it over to 8th edition, Genestealer Cults will be sitting pretty as well.

Space Marines do well in EVERY edition.

Wait, what? Summoning is gone?

I don't mind rebalancing and nerfing it if it was OP, but to get rid of it entirely sems excessive.

I am, or was, toying with the idea of starting a 2nd army of Word Bearers Chaos Space Marines. The entire appeal of the Word Bearers to me is the whole daemon summoning aspect, being able to cast a psychic power and plonk down a new unit on the table, or sacrifice a character to possession by a greater daemon is a fun gimmick and theme that I'd like to build an army around. (My Raven Guard were based on Infiltrating, Outflanking, Scouting and Deep striking). I'm actually waiting for an order to be delivered with a Dark Apostle as the first model of that army.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Or they are counting monstrous creatures and vehicles as the biggest models since they said that superheavy and gargantuan units aren't a separate category anymore...

Or it could be figurative rather than literal and it's just more Space Marines...

Eyjio wrote:
Meh. Decent update today, would have preferred more detail but it is what it is. I do wonder what's going to happen to all the background that used to be in the BRB, is it all going to be put on the website, or is it going to be dispersed through other means?.

The fluff will remain one of the reasons to buy the hard copy rulebooks most likely.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

Spoiler:

 Capamaru wrote:
So 40k is getting AOSed... we are getting something like an End Times, we just don't call it that way cause we will upset people... I really wanna see where the game is going but I can tell you right now I don't like the direction.

It feels less like end times and more like the glory days of 2nd edition, but with some rules simplification.

I have over a $1000 worth of codexes invalidated by 8th edition, but so far I am really liking the announced changes.

The only thing I'm sad to see go is summoning, but I understand how it was a problem .

The preview information on assault has already given me faith the Orks and Tyranids will do better in 8th than they have in last few editions.

If Cult Ambush rules make it over to 8th edition, Genestealer Cults will be sitting pretty as well.

Space Marines do well in EVERY edition.

Wait, what? Summoning is gone?

I don't mind rebalancing and nerfing it if it was OP, but to get rid of it entirely sems excessive.

I am, or was, toying with the idea of starting a 2nd army of Word Bearers Chaos Space Marines. The entire appeal of the Word Bearers to me is the whole daemon summoning aspect, being able to cast a psychic power and plonk down a new unit on the table, or sacrifice a character to possession by a greater daemon is a fun gimmick and theme that I'd like to build an army around. (My Raven Guard were based on Infiltrating, Outflanking, Scouting and Deep striking). I'm actually waiting for an order to be delivered with a Dark Apostle as the first model of that army.

I don't think we can specifically say that summoning is gone as a concept, but I'm pretty sure we can say it's gone as a way of bringing free models.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:


No, we could have just as easily arbitrarily assigned letters to them instead. Or named them after deserts.

Hmm,Warhammer 40K: Cookies 'n' Cream Edition actually has a nice ring to it.

Referring to the sequence in which they were released is not arbitrary, because there is a systematic relationship present that can recognised and reliably inferred. Whatever people, or GW, choose to call them wouldn't invalidate that.

(The use of arbitrary sign systems, i.e. numerals and/or letters, is a separate issue).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
What do the Chaos Gods see in Abaddon anyway? He has a 10,000 year long track record of failure after all.

You don't understand Chaos - if they win the war - the game and the fun ends

Constant and unending warfare, strife is a joyful thing for the Chaos gods and those followers that truely understand them.

 rollawaythestone wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
Meh. Decent update today, would have preferred more detail but it is what it is. I do wonder what's going to happen to all the background that used to be in the BRB, is it all going to be put on the website, or is it going to be dispersed through other means?.

The fluff will remain one of the reasons to buy the hard copy rulebooks most likely.

This. Keep the rules free. Books are for paint guides, fluff and pretty artwork.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:Or they are counting monstrous creatures and vehicles as the biggest models since they said that superheavy and gargantuan units aren't a separate category anymore...

Azreal13 wrote:Or it could be figurative rather than literal and it's just more Space Marines...

I'm gonna put it out there that if "the largest models" turns out to mean "not actually the largest models, just some relatively large models" then I'll be pretty confused

Oh man, I really hope pure Knight lists will still be valid (battleforged). Unless I'll have to collect a new army

Eyjio wrote:
Meh. Decent update today, would have preferred more detail but it is what it is. I do wonder what's going to happen to all the background that used to be in the BRB, is it all going to be put on the website, or is it going to be dispersed through other means?

I'm very excited about the update tomorrow. The "biggest models in the game" must be super heavies and gargantuans, which are currently the biggest flaws in the game balance - some, like the Baneblade, are fluffy but useless; others, like the Wraithknight, I'd prefer to be melted down and never mentioned again. Seeing what they can do now will be very interesting now that stomp will have to change (no blast template) and D Weapons are now presumably mortal wound weapons; that's not even mentioning that the Knight's ion shield no longer has "facings". Weird they're being shown before MCs and normal vehicles though, might be another post extremely light on detail. Either way, they're going to be drastically changing somehow.

Literally only one LoW is unbalanced and that's the Wraithknight. You can make an argument for the Stormsurge but I don't see it as too much a problem.

 CragHack wrote:
Oh man, I really hope pure Knight lists will still be valid (battleforged). Unless I'll have to collect a new army

"All current armies will be supported with new rules."

One could easily arque knight is their own army currently so they are playable.

I'll be surprised if there's no LOW core detachment so that's where you will likely be good. Could be tad shorter on command points though compared to other armies.

 CragHack wrote:
Oh man, I really hope pure Knight lists will still be valid (battleforged). Unless I'll have to collect a new army

Of course they will. And they will probably be better accepted by your future opponents since gameplay wise will be just like tanks, daemons and whatnot. 8th will definitely be the age to bring your big guns since they synergy with the game better.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Literally only one LoW is unbalanced and that's the Wraithknight. You can make an argument for the Stormsurge but I don't see it as too much a problem.

Sure, if all we were considering was the balance today, I could see that argument; I don't think the Stormsurge is a particular issue even. However, if you go through all of 7e, we first had the hilariously broken T C'tan (first draw a Str D straight line over a unit, then use a Str D hellstorm in case it survived), wwe've had the Eldar Lynx (flying Str D large blast) and then we had issues where Imperial Knights were on every table - the only thing which really came in to stop this was the advent of the new SM codex with grav spam everywhere, which basically invalidated almost every vehicle and MC in the game without invuln saves. They've always been a thorn in the game, just from the fact that they're so polarising in the current rules - either you can kill them, in which case you likely win every game, or you can't and just lose. With potentially degrading performance and "everything can hurt everything", I'm interested to see what they'll be like in 8e.

tneva82 wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Oh man, I really hope pure Knight lists will still be valid (battleforged). Unless I'll have to collect a new army

"All current armies will be supported with new rules."

One could easily arque knight is their own army currently so they are playable.

I'll be surprised if there's no LOW core detachment so that's where you will likely be good. Could be tad shorter on command points though compared to other armies.

HH has the leviathan detachment. GW could do a detachment that is say 1-3 lords of war, and something like models in 5his detachment may not spend command points.

Just got this from Pete...possible good news for Orks?

@GeekJockPete My Kan Wall really wants back on the table! Will we see more effective walkers this time around?

Pete Foley‏
I think they will be a lot better, all walkers should be in #New40k

Wait, what? Summoning is gone?

I don't think we can specifically say that summoning is gone as a concept, but I'm pretty sure we can say it's gone as a way of bringing free models.

Is it really summoning if I'm paying the points for the models ?

If I'm paying points for the models how is that different from just briging models from reserves ?

 adamsouza wrote:
If I'm paying points for the models how is that different from just briging models from reserves ?

Advantages would be:

a) they are safe from enemy until you need them
b) you can(in AOS anyway) customize what you bring by summoning. If they aren't summoned they are decided on list building.

Of course there's the huge issue that if enemy kills your summoner there went those points. And if you have significant points on summoning pool you can be sure enemy will throw everything and kitchen sink at killing those fast as it's so damn efficient strategy.

Summoning actually works ok in AoS.

 adamsouza wrote:

Wait, what? Summoning is gone?

I don't think we can specifically say that summoning is gone as a concept, but I'm pretty sure we can say it's gone as a way of bringing free models.

Spoiler:

Is it really summoning if I'm paying the points for the models ?

If I'm paying points for the models how is that different from just briging models from reserves ?

How is it summoning if you just take the models out of your case and plonk them down? You gotta use actual magic to manifest the models you want to play with

Having things for free is the rotten core of what was ruining the game, you're gonna have to make some other kind of fluff justification for it, because getting things for nothing is garbage.

Eyjio wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:Or they are counting monstrous creatures and vehicles as the biggest models since they said that superheavy and gargantuan units aren't a separate category anymore...

Azreal13 wrote:Or it could be figurative rather than literal and it's just more Space Marines...

I'm gonna put it out there that if "the largest models" turns out to mean "not actually the largest models, just some relatively large models" then I'll be pretty confused

We've been told and/or hinted that GC's super heavies, MC's and tanks are all the same unit type now.

 Galas wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Are they going to retain all the Relics, warlord traits and chapter specific rules for space Marines and other races?

I loved the new space marine chapter traits and rules for Raven Guard that came with 6th and 7th ed, and I've been converting models to use the raven guard relics.

I won't be happy if all that is gone.

This is what worries me. I don't want this to be known as the bland edition. having said that 7th is such a mess, anything within reason is better.

I got to the stage that I was refusing to buy GW products. Then the New GW suckered me back in, with wrath of magnus and traitor legions. Both now invalid, so my hopes arn't high.

They have confirmed that Legion traits and Chapter Tactics remain. How? They haven't say it.

They also said"The white box, isn't space hulk" So I'll take some salt with that. Until I see it.

 adamsouza wrote:

Wait, what? Summoning is gone?

I don't think we can specifically say that summoning is gone as a concept, but I'm pretty sure we can say it's gone as a way of bringing free models.

Spoiler:

Is it really summoning if I'm paying the points for the models ?

If I'm paying points for the models how is that different from just briging models from reserves ?

I like how getting free models is Literally The Worst, right up until chaos does it.

You have to pay for models.

 Lockark wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:Or they are counting monstrous creatures and vehicles as the biggest models since they said that superheavy and gargantuan units aren't a separate category anymore...

Azreal13 wrote:Or it could be figurative rather than literal and it's just more Space Marines...

I'm gonna put it out there that if "the largest models" turns out to mean "not actually the largest models, just some relatively large models" then I'll be pretty confused

We've been told and/or hinted that GC's super heavies, MC's and tanks are all the same unit type now.

They are still largest models regardless of what they are counted(which are also lords of war so are separated from land raiders etc). I would say knights, baneblades etc are "tad" bigger than land raider etc

FWIW, summoning in 40k already represented calling to you forces already at your disposal, not a manifestation of raw material into something useful. And, in at least some previous editions, you paid for the units and it was another means of entering from reserves, so this isn't new.

Will the summoning rules be balanced and otherwise appropriately created and managed? Who knows- it's GW and their ideas are all over the place. But I don't believe the current summoning system is very balanced, since you're not paying more on summoners for access to the spell list that generates free models than you do for some notably smaller spells.

 matphat wrote:
Just got this from Pete...possible good news for Orks?

@GeekJockPete My Kan Wall really wants back on the table! Will we see more effective walkers this time around?

Pete Foley‏
I think they will be a lot better, all walkers should be in #New40k

Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think they'd say even if they weren't going to be better but instead worse? That you wasted your money and should use them as office paperweights? It's naive to assume that you're going to get anything but a positive response from a GW employee. If you go back a few years, unbound and formations were the best thing since sliced bread and exactly what the community wanted according to official channels. Obviously, they weren't (and not even in hindsight but rather first glance for some of us). It's nice to get an answer (if only to ridicule it later worst case scenario) but the proof is in the full rules release pudding. Everything until then is assumed to be marketing spin first and foremost. This isn't necessarily directed at you since you flat out said possible good news but rather to the gullible silent readership that fell hook, line, and sinker for marketing spin the last two editions.