Yonasu wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Youn wrote:
On facebook the weapons are at least broken down by faction. They didn't exactly say they are on each datasheet but there is at least weapon charts per factions. Here is the question/answer

Kevin Lefevre Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.

Warhammer 40,000
Warhammer 40,000 That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....

I think they were attempting to be funny, as their responses thus far have consisted of poor clarification and joke responses ranging from "You can still do that if you want but its not smart," to "BUT TRY IT IS MUCH BETTER PROMISE" to "Tough gak asshat give us your money"

Yea some of their responses have been more like a 12 year old trying to be cool with the fanboys than a company answering questions. Some of the comments about character rules were like this, youd think they would understand its not to everyones liking.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Today's page on rubric marines has been published and swiftly removed. But a fellow user from my French forum has taken a print screen.

GW wrote:In Warhammer 40,000, a unit’s rules can be found on its datasheet.

Currently, a lot of these rules will reference universal special rules, and you might need to do some digging to find a specific rule in the main rulebook, or just be really good at memorising a lot of rules.

Not for the new Warhammer 40,000 – universal special rules are out, and all the rules for a unit will appear on its datasheet – no more lugging a demi-library of books to every game night to ensure you have all the rules you need. Even the rules for weapons will be on there for the most common weapons the unit is likely to be equipped with. The best way to show you is with an example. We’ll be using the Rubric Marines Datasheet, as requested by Marco Tonino on our Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page.



Ok, lots going on in there, so let’s look at a few elements.

At the very top right, we have the Troop icon, which represents the unit’s battlefield role. There are actually two ways to use Rubric Marines, either as an Elite choice in a Chaos Space Marines force (maybe belonging to a sorcerer pledged to the Black Legion or a renegade warlord), or if your detachment is pure Thousand Sons, they can be Troops, much like today.

Next to that we have Power Level, which we’ll look at in detail tomorrow, but for the moment, suffice to say that it is a quick and easy mechanism for balancing in less competitive narrative or open play games.

Then we have the unit profile. You can see the Rubric Marine is, perhaps unsurprisingly, quite similar to a Tactical Marine we’ve seen already. These guys are a little slower than their non-dust brothers, whereas the Sorcerer leading the unit is faster and a more deadly close combat fighter with his extra attack.

Wargear options are listed next, along with stats for their weapons. Most units have all their weapons on their datasheet, though some with a lot of options (Space Marine Tactical Squads, for example) will list only the most common.

Next we have Abilities. Universal special rules are out, so any time a unit acts differently to what its stats might indicate, the rules for how will be in here. The bulk of these rules will be written in full, but there might occasionally be an army-wide, or very common rule for a given faction that isn’t, though these will always be in that same publication with page references, to make finding it easy.

After the special abilities and psychic powers are the keywords. There are two types of these.

The first, faction keywords, are what you use when selecting your detachments for a Battle-forged army, and often trigger in-game effects regarding what units gain benefits from certain Characters or can travel in specific Transports.

Other keywords are not involved in selecting an army, and usually have more general battlefield effects – for example, perhaps only Infantry can gain the full benefit of certain types of cover.

So, there are Datasheets and some juicy new Thousand Sons rules to speculate about.

We’ll be back tomorrow to look at points and power levels.

Youn wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:



I think they were attempting to be funny, as their responses thus far have consisted of poor clarification and joke responses ranging from "You can still do that if you want but its not smart," to "BUT TRY IT IS MUCH BETTER PROMISE" to "Tough gak asshat give us your money"

Or it's exactly what they mean. They grabbed it off the Chaos Space marine Dataslate. The only things with Twin linked heavy bolters in chaos space marines are Predators, Landraiders and Helbrutes.

Neronoxx wrote:

Yonasu wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Youn wrote:
On facebook the weapons are at least broken down by faction. They didn't exactly say they are on each datasheet but there is at least weapon charts per factions. Here is the question/answer

Kevin Lefevre Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.

Warhammer 40,000
Warhammer 40,000 That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....

I think they were attempting to be funny, as their responses thus far have consisted of poor clarification and joke responses ranging from "You can still do that if you want but its not smart," to "BUT TRY IT IS MUCH BETTER PROMISE" to "Tough gak asshat give us your money"

Yea some of their responses have been more like a 12 year old trying to be cool with the fanboys than a company answering questions. Some of the comments about character rules were like this, youd think they would understand its not to everyones liking.

And? I'm sure they do, but you can't make everyone happy - the players have a choice too, to be optimistic and make the most of it or just to shove a stick up themselves and try to kill people with it.
I personally like a little fight in a company, as long as its good natured. So far GW has taken the negativity in stride, and I applaud them for it.
Besides, how would you expect them to reply?
"Sorry guys, we were wrong, we'll stop and go back, forgive us."??
I'm really concerned with both of your expectations - if you honestly though that 8th ed wasnt going to be a serious upheaval, I think the fault lies with you.

 kronk wrote:
Is this how AOS does it? 5 Rubrics are power 8. 6-10 rubrics are 8+6?

Was that how it was before the general's handbook? Would the general's handbook be more granular (i.e., each additional rubric is +1 power, each warpflamer is +1 power, etc)?

I'm just trying to distinguish between Matched Play and the other types.

 insaniak wrote:
So we're back to psykers just having access to a single, set psychic power?

Odd choice given how well received that was last time they did it. (hint - it wasn't well received)

Yonasu wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

Yonasu wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Youn wrote:
On facebook the weapons are at least broken down by faction. They didn't exactly say they are on each datasheet but there is at least weapon charts per factions. Here is the question/answer

Kevin Lefevre Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.

Warhammer 40,000
Warhammer 40,000 That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....

I think they were attempting to be funny, as their responses thus far have consisted of poor clarification and joke responses ranging from "You can still do that if you want but its not smart," to "BUT TRY IT IS MUCH BETTER PROMISE" to "Tough gak asshat give us your money"

Yea some of their responses have been more like a 12 year old trying to be cool with the fanboys than a company answering questions. Some of the comments about character rules were like this, youd think they would understand its not to everyones liking.

And? I'm sure they do, but you can't make everyone happy - the players have a choice too, to be optimistic and make the most of it or just to shove a stick up themselves and try to kill people with it.
I personally like a little fight in a company, as long as its good natured. So far GW has taken the negativity in stride, and I applaud them for it.
Besides, how would you expect them to reply?
"Sorry guys, we were wrong, we'll stop and go back, forgive us."??
I'm really concerned with both of your expectations - if you honestly though that 8th ed wasnt going to be a serious upheaval, I think the fault lies with you.

Yea, of course. People giving constructive criticism should be mocked and ridiculed. I'm sorry, i forgot GW could do no wrong. So sorry.
Next time i will remember to force a smile and bend over whenever Comcast or Monsanto wants me to as well. All hail corporate

 insaniak wrote:

This is just for the types of play where the points (supposedly) don't really matter. I would assume that they must list the actual points costs in the books. So, in other words, the rules are free, but only if you only want to play the fluffy way.

 insaniak wrote:
So we're back to psykers just having access to a single, set psychic power?

Odd choice given how well received that was last time they did it. (hint - it wasn't well received)

 kronk wrote:
Is this how AOS does it? 5 Rubrics are power 8. 6-10 rubrics are 8+6?

Was that how it was before the general's handbook? Would the general's handbook be more granular (i.e., each additional rubric is +1 power, each warpflamer is +1 power, etc)?

I'm just trying to distinguish between Matched Play and the other types.

 Deadshot wrote:
I just expect a customer service team to not jokingly respond to queries with vagueness. And a company that does such a serious upheaval, then go answer questions, but refuse to take criticism on the matter, is not a good company move. If you are going to put yourself out on the firing line, you have to ensure that everyone's happy. Why was there no Beta testing phase? Why no open beta? Why not even consultation from players and hobbyists on what the rules should look like, given the scope of what players want and ask for from the game?

I certain don't expect a company to write "tough love sweetheart, now hand me your wallet and bend over" when I say that I'm disappointed with their choice of direction on a public communication.

 Not-not-kenny wrote:

Not quite, before the General's Handbook points didn't exist whatsoever. Matched play in AoS is basically this power lvl system. But they've said 8th will have a granular points system like in 7th as well.

 Deadshot wrote:
Its utterly irrelevant which sheet they used, a Twin Linked Heavy Bolter in one codex is the same as a TLHB in another codex.

DrRansom wrote:
Or, the psyker in this unit is meant to only have a single, lower powered, ability because they are, after all, an Aspiring Sorcerer.

There's also confirmation on weapon stats on datasheets. It'll be there for almost all units other than Tactical Marines, resolving the discussion earlier in this thread.

MaxT wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
I just expect a customer service team to not jokingly respond to queries with vagueness. And a company that does such a serious upheaval, then go answer questions, but refuse to take criticism on the matter, is not a good company move. If you are going to put yourself out on the firing line, you have to ensure that everyone's happy. Why was there no Beta testing phase? Why no open beta? Why not even consultation from players and hobbyists on what the rules should look like, given the scope of what players want and ask for from the game?

I certain don't expect a company to write "tough love sweetheart, now hand me your wallet and bend over" when I say that I'm disappointed with their choice of direction on a public communication.

It's facebook, not a customer services ticket. I get that lightheartedness and comedy grates some people the wrong way (clearly you) but I personally like it. This is little plastic models we're discussing, not cancer treatment.

 xttz wrote:
Plus it makes no sense to reprint the same bunch of powers on every psychic unit.

tneva82 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Plus it makes no sense to reprint the same bunch of powers on every psychic unit.

Same could be said about weapons and rules...

Albeit they didn't go for full weapon loadout for busy units so there's that.

 Not-not-kenny wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Is this how AOS does it? 5 Rubrics are power 8. 6-10 rubrics are 8+6?

Was that how it was before the general's handbook? Would the general's handbook be more granular (i.e., each additional rubric is +1 power, each warpflamer is +1 power, etc)?

I'm just trying to distinguish between Matched Play and the other types.

Not quite, before the General's Handbook points didn't exist whatsoever. Matched play in AoS is basically this power lvl system. But they've said 8th will have a granular points system like in 7th as well.

tneva82 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Its utterly irrelevant which sheet they used, a Twin Linked Heavy Bolter in one codex is the same as a TLHB in another codex.

Dark angels say "hi" to that statement...

 Deadshot wrote:

MaxT wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
I just expect a customer service team to not jokingly respond to queries with vagueness. And a company that does such a serious upheaval, then go answer questions, but refuse to take criticism on the matter, is not a good company move. If you are going to put yourself out on the firing line, you have to ensure that everyone's happy. Why was there no Beta testing phase? Why no open beta? Why not even consultation from players and hobbyists on what the rules should look like, given the scope of what players want and ask for from the game?

I certain don't expect a company to write "tough love sweetheart, now hand me your wallet and bend over" when I say that I'm disappointed with their choice of direction on a public communication.

It's facebook, not a customer services ticket. I get that lightheartedness and comedy grates some people the wrong way (clearly you) but I personally like it. This is little plastic models we're discussing, not cancer treatment.

Its a facebook page for answer questions from customers about the product, that makes it customer service. And working for the last 5 years in recruitment, I've seen detailed specifications of every form of customer service under the sun. You speak to customers, its customer service, about a product. Its irrelevant what the product is, I don't expect the company to say "feth off, buy our gak" when I express dissappointment or disinterest. If a supermarket stopped selling vegetarian food, and a vegetarian complained, would you expect them to say "well, sorry love guess just have to eat meat now right?"

Thebiggesthat wrote:
Matched play in AoS is definitely not power level. It's points. Granular points.

If you mean the unit size thing, then you are right there but it's nothing like a 'rough guide' power level.