Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm sure this will work out great for Guilliman. Just like when Corax did the same thing. Or when the Space Wolves tried it.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

You mean those same guys wielding them that have been mass distributed to shore up the numbers of the current 1000 chapters and have enough left over to make chapters composed entirely of themselves? Yeah, definitely limited numbers there.

Ruin wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

You mean those same guys wielding them that have been mass distributed to shore up the numbers of the current 1000 chapters and have enough left over to make chapters composed entirely of themselves? Yeah, definitely limited numbers there.

Bolt rifle upgrade kits of the Astartes incoming I can see FW doing that......

I'm sure this will work out great for Guilliman. Just like when Corax did the same thing. Or when the Space Wolves tried it

.

I thought having them turn into monsters would be quite fun - and then I look at the mess they made of the Wulfen models........

Ben2 wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
These Primaris marines do look way better than the existing marines.

I think it's the MK IV esque armour that does it. Nice to see something that references the Forgeworld designed stuff so well.

All the marks are designed by Jes Goodwin though, not Forge World.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
So, let's assume this is going to be a stealth upgrade, where the normal marines slowly get replaced/get no new releases until finally there is nothing but Primaris Marines... how would that affect the other ranges? Eldar for example are supposed to be really tall, but are dwarfed by these new marines. Would we get an across the board upscale of everything bar humans (Genestealer cults and Skitarii have basically nailed the scale already)?

That's a tough one. Eldar might just get new stuff like Rubrics that are a lot bigger.

Eldar have needed new plastics for a lot of their infantry for a very long time, if they're going to rescale they've got the opportunity to do a lot of good. Sounds like they'll be focusing on the new Guillimarine stuff for a while yet, though...

In regards to the Nu-Marines, I have no objections to the models or the fluff or anything else about them - it all seems fine in my opinion.

I just hoped against hope that GW would buck their eternal trend and not dive immediately into moar Space Marines.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's an error on their part, or malicious as some might claim - clearly lots of folks will be happy with this release. I've just personally seen and played against enough Space Marine armies for several lifetimes, that I didn't feel like I needed a new breed to square up against. I would have muchly preferred a new, original faction, or a further fleshing-out of some of the less loved model lines. IMO one of 40k's greatest strengths is the diversity of the armies you can play.

Ah well. Can't argue with cold, hard cash. GW knows who butters their bread...

Ruin wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

I'd go for the usual "This is a super special weapon that is oh so very hard to make with limited numbers so only the bestest of the besty best can use them."

You mean those same guys wielding them that have been mass distributed to shore up the numbers of the current 1000 chapters and have enough left over to make chapters composed entirely of themselves? Yeah, definitely limited numbers there.

Compare those with the numbers of Astartes that are left. Had SoB into the bunch as they also use bolters as their main weapons.

Just make them rare, say a few turning up here and there and...

Oh wait, whole chapters of them already.

sigh.

It just looks very much like a half-arsed attempt to cover up a cash grab.

 Alpharius wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
... at the same time, I'm wondering what I should do with my hundred baby marines... they suddenly don't feel as cool :(

And there you've hit why this is a problem on the head, at least fluff wise (models are fine as far as I can see).

There is no way this can be spun that doesn't cheapen normal space marines, which just went from humanity's finest mass production supersoldiers to "I guess they'll do, they're no Indomitus marine though."

And sure, Custodes already fit the design space of "double space marine", but the distinction there is that they aren't mass produced. These fellows have been shipped out all over the galaxy and even have entire all-Indomitus chapters already.

Custodes can't even be produced anymore since we have no Emperor leading the project. And if they,re double Mares, then Primaris are the 1.5x Marines. Better, but not a complete showing up I bet.

Is this true?

Or been confirmed anywhere?

Or are all Custodes now supposed to be 10,000+ years old?!?

I mean each one was a work of art made by the Emperor around he time he made the Thunder Warriors. And they spent the last 10,000 years not fighting or stepping outside of the Imperial Palace, so considering their legacy as either being sired from the Emperor's genes directly, or taken from a source lost during the Age of Strife (two theories that apparently come from different sources as mentioned in their Lexicanum article) I can't see why they can't be that old.

Even Marines have no known limit to their age (the big E could definitely cook up a way to prevent aging of a person's body on a genetic level afterall) when they were created and save for some graying there is no real description of any with the usual wrinkles or signs of aging we see in normal humans.

So yeah, I can accept 10k plus old Custodes.

From a model standpoint those marines look fantastic. The proportions are spot on and the new bolter-rifle is badass.

I imagine that the new dreadnought will be equally cool given that I see a lot of FW design choices in these models and the FW dreads are awesome.

Fluffwise I don't think there is any good way to explain upscaling their most popular line of models but I have really enjoyed all the new storylines that GW have been pumping out lately so I am happy to wait and see what happens in the next few months!

 Mymearan wrote:

Ben2 wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
These Primaris marines do look way better than the existing marines.

I think it's the MK IV esque armour that does it. Nice to see something that references the Forgeworld designed stuff so well.

All the marks are designed by Jes Goodwin though, not Forge World.

Originally yeah but if you look at FW MkIV compared to old GW MkIV stuff and it's worlds ahead.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

Why doesn't everyone just have a lascannon?

Not enough serfs to polish the lenses needed to create all those ladcannons, their replacement parts and the like?

Remember gw makes fluff and artwork first then models and then rules. New marines are fine lore wise the imperium has been trying to improve and replicate the genesede project for thousands of years. And truthfully new marines are a thousand times better then centurion armour nonesense by finally give us truescale marines.

Ben2 wrote:
I'm sure this will work out great for Guilliman. Just like when Corax did the same thing.

We haven't had any mention of Alpha Legion, so I'm sure it will.

Wasn't there some talk of factions falling to Chaos and/or being redeemed? What are the odds the Alpha Legion gave Cawl or Guilliman a clean copy of the Primarch genetic template to make this entire enterprise possible?

The way the Primaris are described is basically the same as the first set of Marines created by Corax when he had access to the same, before the daemon blood corrupted it. Either the Alpha Legion gave them the template or Cawl spent 10,000 years rebuilding the template.

I really really dislike this release. I feel it curbstomps current fluff and gives a middle finger to existing marines. The niche of the super-supersoldier was already filled with grey knights, deathwatch and custodes. But these at least had drawbacks, the first two were specialists against a type of foe, the latter handmade by the Emperor. These are (fluffwise) all benefit and no drawback. They also seem to be produced faster than old marines...

And the models seem a bit meh to me.... I much preferred the mix and match of different armour marks creating unike supersoldiers than these highly uniform non Star Wars clones.


Unless each nu-marine is arouund the 50 point mark I sadly expect them to slowly replace the Space marines.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #2 is STAY ON TOPIC - Alpharius]

hypnoticeris wrote:
I really really dislike this release. I feel it curbstomps current fluff and gives a middle finger to existing marines. The niche of the super-supersoldier was already filled with grey knights, deathwatch and custodes. But these at least had drawbacks, the first two were specialists against a type of foe, the latter handmade by the Emperor. These are (fluffwise) all benefit and no drawback. They also seem to be produced faster than old marines...

And the models seem a bit meh to me.... I much preferred the mix and match of different armour marks creating unike supersoldiers than these highly uniform non Star Wars clones.


Unless each nu-marine is arouund the 50 point mark I sadly expect them to slowly replace the Space marines.

Unless they have a major stat line increase over regular Marines I expect them to be the same base cost as Veterans.

Then again I half expect Veterans of all kinds to get bumped to 2 wounds and get a points bump just to make stuff like Vanguard look more useful.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Wasn't there some talk of factions falling to Chaos and/or being redeemed? What are the odds the Alpha Legion gave Cawl or Guilliman a clean copy of the Primarch genetic template to make this entire enterprise possible?

The way the Primaris are described is basically the same as the first set of Marines created by Corax when he had access to the same, before the daemon blood corrupted it. Either the Alpha Legion gave them the template or Cawl spent 10,000 years rebuilding the template.

Funny you should mention Alpha Legion. They have the new armor on, on the cover of this novel! What could it mean?

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Have they even attempted a fluff justification for why the bolt rifles haven't been produced and distributed to the existing non-Primaris Space Marines, and/or why those same existing non-Primaris Space Marines haven't commandeered those same supplies and just given the ENTIRELY NEW RECRUITS the boltguns while they use the Better-In-Every-Way bolt rifles?

No? Thought not.

Certain Guillimann might outrank space marines.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Have they ever explained why they don't just give every marine a heavy bolter? Or plasma gun?

Why don't us army give every trooper mmgw

RULE #2 is STAY ON TOPIC.

What's not ON TOPIC here?

Female Space Marines.

tneva82 wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Have they ever explained why they don't just give every marine a heavy bolter? Or plasma gun?

Why don't us army give every trooper mmgw

Or Tanks. Why don't we give a tank to everyone of our soldiers?

Is just like... you know... something called logistics existed... damm son!

We all know that baby marines will win out in the end.

gungo wrote:
Remember gw makes fluff and artwork first then models and then rules.

I can't exactly disprove your claim here - but I am deeply, deeply convinced that this is not in the least bit true.

First of all, I cant be the only one who read that in morgan freeman voice. Secondly: HELL YEAH! THOSE THINGS LOOK AWESOME!

Let me demonstrate something:

Armour through the ages by Ember (woo!)

MK I POWER ARMOUR:

Ehh, nice... shades, i guess?
Real Soldier

MK II CRUSADE POWER ARMOUR

Armour plates, sleek-ish design and a layer of secrecy. This is definitely armour. It is definitely a warrior.
Real Soldier

MK III IRON ARMOUR:
[img]https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/e/e4/IF_Tact_Spt_Legionary.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20140411233258
[/img]
Well, slightly less archaic than the last one, it still looks powerful and dangerous.
Real Soldier

MK IV MAXIMUS ARMOUR

Yes. The perfect combination of sleek and jagged plates makes it look terrifying. And that helmet is to die for.
Real Soldier

MK V LETS-COBBLE-TOGETHER-WHATEVER-AND-HOPE-FOR-THE-BEST-PLUS-ITS-CHEAP POWER ARMOUR

Another yes, these guys look like they've seen action. There armour is functional and looks kinda scary. Good job.
Real Soldier

MK VI CORVUS ARMOUR, AKA BEAKIE, AKA THE BEST

No flaws. None. Flaws are fake news.
Real Soldier

MK VII DERP POWER ARMOUR

Squat legs. Lack of ammo pouches. No equipment. Much too smooth. Really, its fine if you remedy those things, but really? Plus the fact that EVERYONE has them makes them worse IMHO.
NOT a Real Soldier

MK VIII DERP-WITH-A-CHIN-GUARD POWER ARMOUR

Same. Except the DW models remedied some of the issues, so I can't complain.
Wannabe Real Soldier

MK X WHERE-DID-IX-GO? POWER ARMOUR

See for yourself
Real Soldier

Thats all from me! Hope you liked my rambling!

Ember

krazynadechukr wrote:
RG & Cawl should have used their new tech to create Female Space Marines at the same time...

They used existing geneseeds and added to the geneseed to enhance the Primaris over the limitations of the regular Astartes (perhaps their bodies negate lactic acid build up preventing fatigue from occuring for weeks at a time or something).

Still don't get while Cawl decided to make them bigger. Was it so is creation could stand above that of the Emperor's? </implied hubris and heretical pride>

What strikes me as interesting in all of this is that RG basically decided during the Scouring (prior to getting super shanked by Fulgrim) was that the Imperium need more Marines to properly regain safety and stanility in the galaxy and decided that his own chapter shouldn't be trusted with such a task, that even the Codex Astartes should not mention such plans, endevours or advice, but rather that he should trust a Martian Magos (remember half of the Mechanicum fell to Horus' side during the heresy and some of those who remain may not have been trustworthy at the time) to not only start this project, but to look for ways to enhance the existing geneseed in an attempt to meddle with his father's legacy.

I mean last time we saw intentions that well met Magnus punched a hole in the Emperor's protective wards and let daemons loose on Terra.

Putting that aside, I can accept the sudden mass reinforcements by this project as Cawl spendingnthe last 10k years basically doing nothing more than bouncing around the galaxy, abducting canidates that fit his profile for compatibility and stuffing altered geneseed organs into them before putting them into a kind of suspended animation while he awaited the chance to attempt to ressurect Guilliman. I mean if we can stick a Primarch in a stasis field, I'm sure the coghead can manage to do the same for the Primaris canidates after they completely melded with their new implants.

Would explain the blue tubes from the teaser video.

I think I'd have less of an issue with these on 2 counts:
There's different lower torso/leg options. Because man, those knees....
And secondly if they didn't shoehorn them into the fluff so hard. Am I meant to believe that depleted Chapters like the Carcharadon's (void-based and always low on numbers) have been reinforced?

Emberlordfire8 wrote:No flaws. None. Flaws are fake news.

That make me laugh, greath post, even if I personally think that the Mk VII is actually the best type of armour
Angry face marines best marines!

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
Mk X armour? What happened to Mk IX?

The same thing that happened to Windows 9

DAMNIT 2 pages late but you made me spit coffee out my nose

 Jambles wrote:

gungo wrote:
Remember gw makes fluff and artwork first then models and then rules.

I can't exactly disprove your claim here - but I am deeply, deeply convinced that this is not in the least bit true.

It has been talked about a few times on twitch.