Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

 Bull0 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Galas wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/19/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-knights/

The thunderstrike gauntlet also has the ability to chuck a destroyed Monster or Vehicle at another enemy unit within 9″ to do D3 mortal wounds on a 4+. Splat!

I love it. I-LOVE-IT

I'm glad corpse chukkin, is still an option!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bull0 wrote:
It's fairly clear +1a for 2 ccws is gone, going by the Q and A

Still 4 attacks on a sergent for very few points is still good. Cheap as chips is always handy.

No idea how wargear works now, but in 7e for a sergeant to have two chainswords you'd have to give up his bolter and his bolt pistol, which would be a bit... Limiting

Crusader Squad Sword Brethren and Assault Marine Sergents could get some use out of it if you're shooting for cheap CC additions.

Warhammer Community wrote:Knights players will also be happy to know they are no longer so easily bogged down by large cannon fodder units. In the new Warhammer 40,000, they can simply walk over Infantry models and leave combat while still being able to fire their weapons. They are fearsome units, indeed.

I guess Knights get the keyword "Fly" now too.

 Red Corsair wrote:
This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

Melta's niche seems to be how reliably it can wound.

 Red Corsair wrote:
This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

its sounding intresting. i love heavy weapons and i cant wait to rebuild my imp fist dev squads

though im curious as to what gravs will do. i think they said it would still be really strong. also plasma. we havent seen that or missiles yet.

I'm sure there will be a 1-LoW or 2-LoW detachment, don't worry.

D3 shot Melta? How unreliable.

 Red Corsair wrote:
This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

I could see Multi-Meltas working well on units that can infiltrate or have forward deploy shenanigans.

LoW Detachment looks like all factions will be able to field it. Welcome Hierophant brood of awesomness (when they actually release the plastic model).

changemod wrote:
D3 shot Melta? How unreliable.

Its a total improvement on previous. Metlas previously fired minimum 1 shot and maximum 1 shot. D3 fires minimum 1, maximum 3 and average 2. Its on average twice as good as before, at best three times, and at worst exactly as before.

 Red Corsair wrote:
This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

Meltas remove all of their save, however, and i'm starting to think you can take both armor and invulnerable.

Why?

Because what is the point of using a -3 or -4 on 3+ armor if they are going to take their 5+ invuln anyway? Even -2 is a moot point.

changemod wrote:
D3 shot Melta? How unreliable.

Represents the blast template. Becomes a D6 against larger units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:

changemod wrote:
D3 shot Melta? How unreliable.

Its a total improvement on previous. Metlas previously fired minimum 1 shot and maximum 1 shot. D3 fires minimum 1, maximum 3 and average 2. Its on average twice as good as before, at best three times, and at worst exactly as before.

Melta cannons were blast weapons.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Warhammer Community wrote:Knights players will also be happy to know they are no longer so easily bogged down by large cannon fodder units. In the new Warhammer 40,000, they can simply walk over Infantry models and leave combat while still being able to fire their weapons. They are fearsome units, indeed.

I guess Knights get the keyword "Fly" now too.

Yes, it is somewhat comical how people keep trying to rectify their perspective of the new rules with old patterns. This is new stuff, people.

Generic Lord of War Detachment allowing 3-5.

Be prepared to play against entirely legal, many many Wraithknight armies. Lol

 Red Corsair wrote:
This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

Don't underestimate rend -4 and the more consistent damage. I'm too tired to do the math but extra rend and extra strength should have about the same wounding power against certain save value breakpoints. 3+ here.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
LoW Detachment looks like all factions will be able to field it. Welcome Hierophant brood of awesomness (when they actually release the plastic model).

So basically never then?

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

Meltas remove all of their save, however, and i'm starting to think you can take both armor and invulnerable.

Why?

Because what is the point of using a -3 or -4 on 3+ armor if they are going to take their 5+ invuln anyway? Even -2 is a moot point.

The Q&A yesterday pretty much confirmed Invul saves work as they do now. They are an non-modifiable alternative to armour saves, not an additional save.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Warhammer Community wrote:Knights players will also be happy to know they are no longer so easily bogged down by large cannon fodder units. In the new Warhammer 40,000, they can simply walk over Infantry models and leave combat while still being able to fire their weapons. They are fearsome units, indeed.

I guess Knights get the keyword "Fly" now too.

Yes, it is somewhat comical how people keep trying to rectify their perspective of the new rules with old patterns. This is new stuff, people.

I'm wondering it "Walking Battleship" will let the Stormsurge do this too.

That said they need to be able to escape the horde for it to work so units that can carpet the table might not leave enough room for the Knight to escape combat.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Generic Lord of War Detachment allowing 3-5.

Be prepared to play against entirely legal, many many Wraithknight armies. Lol

Who cares? Wraithknights could be raw garbage now for all we know.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
LoW Detachment looks like all factions will be able to field it. Welcome Hierophant brood of awesomness (when they actually release the plastic model).

So basically never then?

They are scheduled right after the plastic Thunderhawk

ERJAK wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Generic Lord of War Detachment allowing 3-5.

Be prepared to play against entirely legal, many many Wraithknight armies. Lol

Who cares? Wraithknights could be raw garbage now for all we know.

Or it won't be. It being good wasn't my post, I simply said it is now a thing that is entirely legal.

I hope they can make vanquishers into true titan killers. How would you guys do it? 72" range, strength 8, ap -3 damage 2D6 heavy 1?

 Deadshot wrote:

changemod wrote:
D3 shot Melta? How unreliable.

Its a total improvement on previous. Metlas previously fired minimum 1 shot and maximum 1 shot. D3 fires minimum 1, maximum 3 and average 2. Its on average twice as good as before, at best three times, and at worst exactly as before.

It used to be a large blast, meaning that it'd do more than one hit against most units and a functionally guaranteed hit on models above riptide or so size. You'd get a pretty predictable effect.

This way you have D3 or D6 shots which then need to roll to wound after- a much more unpredictable impact. Just because the upper bound is a lot higher doesn't mean that it's not less reliable.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I hope they can make vanquishers into true titan killers. How would you guys do it? 72" range, ap -3 damage 2D6 heavy 1?

Vanquishers aren't really "Titan killers", but they are tank/MC killers...

I would do a flat damage value of 4 or 5, maybe even 6.

The Shadowsword on the other hand...I could see a damage value of damn near 12.

Nah, that would better suit something like a Shadowsword Volcano Cannon.

I'd say Range 72", Heavy 1 S8 AP -3 4 DMG, roll 2D6 to wound and pick the highest.

Aaaand ninja'd by Kan.

 Verviedi wrote:
I'm sure there will be a 1-LoW or 2-LoW detachment, don't worry.

Yea I bet it would be a 1-2 with 0 CP.

Maybe we'll see something like below. That comes to 13 instead of 12, but the extra elite could easily be cut.

Patrol
Battalion
Brigade

Super Heavy
Super Heavy (smaller and less CP)

Elite 1
Elite 2

Fast Attack 1
Fast Attack 2

Heavy Support 1
Heavy Support 2

Flyer 1
Flyer 2

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
This reaffirms my suspicion that I should take las canons over multimeltas, so far all the big things are turning out to be at the T8 mark meaning that 3+ to wound at double range will me much better then 4+ to wound at suicide range

Glad my Iron Warriors pack lots of lasers

I am betting even the land raider is capped at T8, though I won't be too shocked if it is uniquely sitting at 9.

Meltas remove all of their save, however, and i'm starting to think you can take both armor and invulnerable.

Why?

Because what is the point of using a -3 or -4 on 3+ armor if they are going to take their 5+ invuln anyway? Even -2 is a moot point.

Im guessing that an invul might just be a - modifier cap. so you will ALWAYS have a 5+ invul except against mortal wounds

i could be wrong.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I'm sure there will be a 1-LoW or 2-LoW detachment, don't worry.

Yea I bet it would be a 1-2 with 0 CP.

It's 3-5 with 3 CP.

Be prepared to play against entirely legal, many many Wraithknight armies. Lol

Wraithknights were broken because they were severely under pointed. They claim that everything is appropriately pointed now (yeah yeah I know.... 'claim'). If that claim is true then it won't matter if you do. Another army of Baneblades will have a 50/50 chance against them (assuming even player skill).

Daedalus81 wrote:
Meltas remove all of their save, however, and i'm starting to think you can take both armor and invulnerable.

Why?

Because what is the point of using a -3 or -4 on 3+ armor if they are going to take their 5+ invuln anyway? Even -2 is a moot point.

I doubt it, but it's possible. Almost all AT weapons are -3 or -4 anyway and these things take a phenomenal amount of shooting to kill even with just a 5++; we're talking about ~23.1 lascannon shots, assuming 3+ to hit. That's what, 6 Land Raiders worth? If you were to use a heavy bolter instead, you're looking at 216 shots to kill - taking them on with multiple damage weapons is going to be utterly crucial. It's also an interesting challenge, as you're 100% going to be engaged in melee with these things now, as nothing will be able to kill them fast enough otherwise.