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Interesting, genestealer rending is now effectively AP1 on 6's, which kinda blows my theory that rending is just an additional AP-1 away. Still, that's pretty crazy. Also, all genestealers are basically purestrain now - 5++ all round! About time too.

I was a little underwhelmed by those Swarmlord stats when I first saw them to be honest; 12 wounds means it can be picked out easaily, and T6 3+ is fairly squishy, as it always has been. Then I read about being able to move a unit twice in a turn and still charge, including itself. That gives the Swarmlord a potential threat range of 31"... pretty nuts. I'm not convinced it wants to be fighting a Knight in combat still due to the whole 6 damage chainsword, but it averages ~6.8 damage a turn against one, and expects to kill ~4.8 primaris marines per turn. Also, as people have noted, the Trygon - Swarmlord move - charge thing is pretty hilarious, as it means you literally cannot fail to charge wherever you can deep strike. Of course, needing to be 9" away from any enemy to deep strike at all is fairly limiting, but still.

Synapse still giving immunity to morale is huge. Of all the things to keep, that is the most impactful. It also means you MUST kill synapse, or you will never be able to deal with the hordes, which is pretty cool.

As for pyrovores being one of the most improved units, well, they'd struggle to be much worse frankly. I know, I know, they're "usable" now, but come on, they've always been pretty awful.

Shadow Walker wrote:I wonder what numer of wounds is needed for a model to have M, S, A etc. reduction table. Swarmie is W12 and Dread is W8 only.

My bet is that it's the same cut off for character targeting - 11+. Makes the most sense to me.

Wow, that Swarmlord looks like a real beast now, even with only 3 wounds left his stats will match his current ones

Actually we might not be thinking big enough with the Swarmlord's catapult ability: There are four superheavy Tyranids in existence and forge world have promised to give rules right away.

That's some impressive force multiplication if you apply it to a biotitan.

Killing the brain bugs is pretty fluffy :-).

Eyjio wrote:
Interesting, genestealer rending is now effectively AP1 on 6's, which kinda blows my theory that rending is just an additional AP-1 away. Still, that's pretty crazy. Also, all genestealers are basically purestrain now - 5++ all round! About time too.

I was a little underwhelmed by those Swarmlord stats when I first saw them to be honest; 12 wounds means it can be picked out easaily, and T6 3+ is fairly squishy, as it always has been. Then I read about being able to move a unit twice in a turn and still charge, including itself. That gives the Swarmlord a potential threat range of 31"... pretty nuts. I'm not convinced it wants to be fighting a Knight in combat still due to the whole 6 damage chainsword, but it averages ~6.8 damage a turn against one, and expects to kill ~4.8 primaris marines per turn. Also, as people have noted, the Trygon - Swarmlord move - charge thing is pretty hilarious, as it means you literally cannot fail to charge wherever you can deep strike. Of course, needing to be 9" away from any enemy to deep strike at all is fairly limiting, but still.

Synapse still giving immunity to morale is huge. Of all the things to keep, that is the most impactful. It also means you MUST kill synapse, or you will never be able to deal with the hordes, which is pretty cool.

As for pyrovores being one of the most improved units, well, they'd struggle to be much worse frankly. I know, I know, they're "usable" now, but come on, they've always been pretty awful.

Shadow Walker wrote:I wonder what numer of wounds is needed for a model to have M, S, A etc. reduction table. Swarmie is W12 and Dread is W8 only.

My bet is that it's the same cut off for character targeting - 11+. Makes the most sense to me.

The Swarmlord also has a 5++ at all times now, with a 4++ in combat still, I'd say he was much more survivable than previously.

 davou wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Why do genestealers have an invul save? what's the fluff perspective of this?

The rules of a game don't need a fluff justification, and in fact in the past when that was blindly applied it resulted in a broken ass game. They have an invuln save because they are decently expensive and need to weather a bunch of shooting before they get to do their work.

Let's just say that I strongly disagree.

It seems that 8th edition will be full of these ''when you have more than 10 models you get +1 attack, more than 20 +2) rules. that's very unfortunate

To be fair about the swarmlord having over 10 wounds, it's always been in the fluff to shoot the big bugs first. They used to have posters telling guardsmen to do just this.

 davou wrote:
sad that the swarmlord didn't make it under the wound limit to be un-targetable. With that exta move ability hes going to be enemy number one every game.

However he will have his Look Out Sir onto Tyrant Guard, maybe still automatically as well.

wow nids look like an assault army again!

to all you faithful nid players out there who have stuck to the gibblies all this time i salute you they look like they are shaping up to be a very scary faction now.

 nintura wrote:
To be fair about the swarmlord having over 10 wounds, it's always been in the fluff to shoot the big bugs first. They used to have posters telling guardsmen to do just this.

The swarmlord being untargetable would have been weird to say the least

 davou wrote:
sad that the swarmlord didn't make it under the wound limit to be un-targetable.

As he'll undoubtedly have the Monster keyword that's probably a non-issue. I can't see GW allowing things like Greater Daemons or Wraithlords to be untargetable, that rule is there to protect Infantry-sized guys.

If the nr of W needed for a reduction table is 11+ then it would mean that Dread would not suffer reduction in performance which would be weird.

 xttz wrote:

 davou wrote:
sad that the swarmlord didn't make it under the wound limit to be un-targetable.

As he'll undoubtedly have the Monster keyword that's probably a non-issue. I can't see GW allowing things like Greater Daemons or Wraithlords to be untargetable, that rule is there to protect Infantry-sized guys.

Tyrant guard though.

- My full strength + Broodlord squad of Genestealers is now very happy.

- Swarmlord will mulch any other characters

- Synapse ignoring break tests is HUGE. Very powerful hordes incoming

- Trygon + Genestealers + Catalyst will be a very powerful combo

 Shadow Walker wrote:
If the nr of W needed for a reduction table is 11+ then it would mean that Dread would not suffer reduction in performance which would be weird.

We already know that dreads don't have an asterisk anywhere in their profile.

Davor wrote:

 xttz wrote:

I'm kinda curious where this leaves drop pods. If units have to disembark before the transport moves, does that means they have to sit inside it for a full turn?

I am sure drop pods/Tyranid spore pod will have rules on the dataslate saying they can disembark the turn they arrive.

They arrive at the top of the movement phase (deployment phase basically) already, so the rules would be simultaneous. No problem there.

changemod wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
If the nr of W needed for a reduction table is 11+ then it would mean that Dread would not suffer reduction in performance which would be weird.

We already know that dreads don't have an asterisk anywhere in their profile.

They show us fragments of their choosing. Dread was shown when they talked about profiles but only later we learned about reduction tables. It is still possible that dread may have some table too.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


Front disembarking durable transports like the land raider are going to be seen a lot more in this version of the game I think.

People keep saying this. There are no firing arcs or final positions that matter now. My guess is ANY transport will allow models to disembark from anywhere off the hull. Since there is no longer vehicle facing, and hence no firing arcs, it would be pointless to say units need to use a door because you would just see sideways and backwards moving transports.

I am hoping assault vehicles get a defensive rule, for example if you charge a landraider, the occupants get to pile out into combat. OR I could see assault vehicles allowing the occupants to remain embarked while the vehicle charges, then they pile out and count as charging as well if it is successful. Either or both would be fitting for something like a land raider.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
If the nr of W needed for a reduction table is 11+ then it would mean that Dread would not suffer reduction in performance which would be weird.

We already know that dreads don't have an asterisk anywhere in their profile.

They show us fragments of their choosing. Dread was shown when they talked about profiles but only later we learned about reduction tables. It is still possible that dread may have some table too.

Someone feel free to correct me, but I'm yet to find any AoS unit with under 10 wounds that has a damage table. I can see things like Dreads, Carnifexes and Wraithlords simply fighting as-is until zero wounds.

 Red Corsair wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


Front disembarking durable transports like the land raider are going to be seen a lot more in this version of the game I think.

People keep saying this. There are no firing arcs or final positions that matter now. My guess is ANY transport will allow models to disembark from anywhere off the hull. Since there is no longer vehicle facing, and hence no firing arcs, it would be pointless to say units need to use a door because you would just see sideways and backwards moving transports.

I am hoping assault vehicles get a defensive rule, for example if you charge a landraider, the occupants get to pile out into combat. OR I could see assault vehicles allowing the occupants to remain embarked while the vehicle charges, then they pile out and count as charging as well if it is successful. Either or both would be fitting for something like a land raider.

I was assuming that vehicles (and maybe Passengers on OT ones) can overwatch.

Love what I'm seeing with nids so far. The only thing I'm kinda bummed about is that Swarmlord doesn't dish out any mortal wounds.

 Red Corsair wrote:

People keep saying this. There are no firing arcs or final positions that matter now. My guess is ANY transport will allow models to disembark from anywhere off the hull.

Yep. I'm pretty sure that this is how it will be.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Love what I'm seeing with nids so far. The only thing I'm kinda bummed about is that Swarmlord doesn't dish out any mortal wounds.

"...Mr. Swarmlord brings the pain in combat as well. With a base of Strength of 8, 7 Attacks, hitting on a 2+, with an AP value of -3 and D6 damage a pop..."

I don't think mortal wounds are required

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Love what I'm seeing with nids so far. The only thing I'm kinda bummed about is that Swarmlord doesn't dish out any mortal wounds.

You haven't seen all the Psyker powers, yet.

BertBert wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Love what I'm seeing with nids so far. The only thing I'm kinda bummed about is that Swarmlord doesn't dish out any mortal wounds.

"...Mr. Swarmlord brings the pain in combat as well. With a base of Strength of 8, 7 Attacks, hitting on a 2+, with an AP value of -3 and D6 damage a pop..."

I don't think mortal wounds are required

I would have prefered D3 mortal wounds over D6. His bonesabres have forced rerolling invulerable saves in his previous incarmations, and have Instant Death, so this would be one of the few weapons that absolutely should have got Mortal Wounds

I'b be interested to see what happens when they are not in synapse range auto battleshock test with 0 casualties?

Tyranids are probably going to end up a top tier faction for sure. Unless we see something more crazy I think they have hands down the most powerful rules I've seen from any preview so far.

He is still going to watch out for HYMP Broadside teams though as well as Missle Pod Crisis suits just due to the sheer amount of firepower. If I was a nids player I would make taking those out a priority for my army. Genestealers are the next scariest thing I would target as a Tau player. Also I hope Kroot got their Str 4 back so they can do a little better at holding in melee and doing some casualties to troop nids.

I told people that the Tau retreat thing would probably be niche use and more or less useless. If a Genestealer unit gets in range of a crisis team it's going to get eviscerated instantly with no chance of retreat. I don't know why people on the internet were expecting us to suddenly be surviving melee. Dark Eldar with fly are probably not going to put up much fight either.

I'm still kind of sad about AV being gone. It doesn't matter on superlight vehicles or things like Land Raiders but for Leman Russes it really kills some tactical depth (even though anything can kill anything). Before it took some dedicated anti-tank to kill a squad of advancing Russes from the front, but if you got behind them a marine could punch one to death.

I wouldn't worry too much about Warriors being squishy, they'll be surrounded by gribblies and only really vulnerable to snipers until their battleshock-proof horde-shield is diminished.