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 ClockworkZion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.

 nintura wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

C). That because Marines were smaller 30-odd years ago in the RT days, that this is not different.

Word.

I don't have a problem with the Biggimus Astartemus. It doesn't make my Black Templars obsolete, nor my 3rd edition rhinos or my HH marines, either.

But if you don't like them, I can understand and respect that, even if I don't agree with you.

See? I can't respect that. It's complaining for the sake of complaining in the hopes that they pay attention to you specifically. This re-scaling has absolutely nothing to do with anyones army. It's not like your army is obsolete or anything. It literally means nothing at all. All it is, is another boxed set that you can buy for your army if you choose to do so. It would be like them adding a new unit to the codex, which it is.

But its not, its a rescale, which means my models will look goofy and wierd next to each other. Primaris as an optional elite subfaction within your chapter is fine, completely redoing the range is not.

Then don't? Your army is not changing. You do not have to use Primaris. You can leave your army as is. We can repeat this all friggin day long. Hell, phase them out over time if you like. Or don't.

The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

DCannon4Life wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Here's an example of a weapon that causes mortal wounds. Note it skips the "to-wound" roll.

Don't expect that to be the norm.

I DO expect it to be the norm (the no "to-wound" roll, I mean). We've been given exactly two examples of mortal wounds and neither one rolls to wound. Could there be some "on a to-wound roll of '6'" it causes a mortal wound? Certainly. But I believe that will be the exception.

EDIT: apparently I responded to something two pages back that's already been covered! Disregard

Eh, I dunno. 16 power level puts it way above plenty of stuff in the game.

I think if you look at this purely compared to the things we've seen to date it'll wreck most of them but leviathans in 30k were brutal machines any way.

There's plenty of stuff in game that can kill them now and T8 isn't exactly out of this earth.

Given the high points cost I think we'll need to see what other stuff is in the same category first

 theharrower wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.

Honestly, that is not great if you are shooting at infantry, since they are only one wound a piece.

 theharrower wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.

Have you seen the power level on it? Points wise, with drop pod and gear, my Leviathan comes to 380 points. It should be over the top (and I still think it's too cheap. It wrecks 400 point knights if you get the charge, even baneblades. But then mines built for doing that.)

I think you'd -mostly- want to keep at least one close combat weapon to take advantage of that brutal S16 4 damage and nasty Melee profile... But two of those Grav Bombards in a drop pod would make a nasty anti-superheavy platform using the 5 damage.

Notice how the Leviathan can use all the Heresy Era weapons in 40k now?

 docdoom77 wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Here's an example of a weapon that causes mortal wounds. Note it skips the "to-wound" roll.

Don't expect that to be the norm.

I DO expect it to be the norm (the no "to-wound" roll, I mean). We've been given exactly two examples of mortal wounds and neither one rolls to wound. Could there be some "on a to-wound roll of '6'" it causes a mortal wound? Certainly. But I believe that will be the exception.

"One of only a handful" is not in reference to the fact that it does Mortal Wounds (plenty of weapons do), but in reference to the fact that it skips the To Wound roll. Skipping the To Wound roll is what you should not expect to be the norm.

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

Im over the conversation. Play the game or don't play the game. Buy the models or don't buy the models. Do whatever you want. Just stop complaining to us about it. The negativity is depressing

DCannon4Life wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Here's an example of a weapon that causes mortal wounds. Note it skips the "to-wound" roll.

Don't expect that to be the norm.

I DO expect it to be the norm (the no "to-wound" roll, I mean). We've been given exactly two examples of mortal wounds and neither one rolls to wound. Could there be some "on a to-wound roll of '6'" it causes a mortal wound? Certainly. But I believe that will be the exception.

"One of only a handful" is not in reference to the fact that it does Mortal Wounds (plenty of weapons do), but in reference to the fact that it skips the To Wound roll. Skipping the To Wound roll is what you should not expect to be the norm.

Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.

In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.

My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.

Requizen wrote:

Nvs wrote:
So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?

If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.

GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.

Sisters would be part of Agents of the Imperium, and you left out Talons of the Emperor - which is listed on the front of the Codexes. I think Space Wolves will get covered too.

 Coyote81 wrote:

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

Spoiler:

Forgeworld news on WC!

Drills are flat out better? Disappointing, I bought claws because they look significantly cooler.

I guess you're meant to proxy the storm cannon as a butcher cannon and the big Melta as the soul burner.

Remember that this doesn't have a point cost. I bet when you look up the point cost, it cost to add drills to the model. Gives you a reason to stick with claws.

At the moment that's a cost of 5 points, and you only need to actually upgrade one. Even if it's a big jump in cost for a drill, you still don't need to get two.

Leaves proxying, I guess.

I use old Rhinos (2nd edition I think), and have used them in tournaments without any difficulty.

If the sky really is falling, and all marines will be replaced with Adeptus Restartes in the next couple of years, there's even less need to buy new kits. Just keep using your regular marines. If need be make the bases a little higher, if 8th uses TLOS and it's a big deal to your opponents.

'Titanic' Keyword hey.
I wonder if it'll have rules tied to it like the 'Fly' keyword to make sure Titans can negate Mortal Wounds.

 docdoom77 wrote:
Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.

Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.

buddha wrote:In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.

My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.

Looks like there won't be any detachments that aren't HQ/Troops/Elites/Fast/Heavy, so no situations where you can't legally take one. For now, anyway.

Asmodai wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Nvs wrote:
So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?

If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.

GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.

Sisters would be part of Agents of the Imperium, and you left out Talons of the Emperor - which is listed on the front of the Codexes. I think Space Wolves will get covered too.

I thought Sisters were separate, my bad.

Yeah the list might be off, maybe they'll do a twofer on some of them.

DCannon4Life wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.

Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.

That's nice to hear. Thanks. Maybe GW should pick their examples better.

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.

Requizen wrote:

buddha wrote:In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.

My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.

Looks like there won't be any detachments that aren't HQ/Troops/Elites/Fast/Heavy, so no situations where you can't legally take one. For now, anyway.

Asmodai wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Nvs wrote:
So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?

If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.

GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.

Sisters would be part of Agents of the Imperium, and you left out Talons of the Emperor - which is listed on the front of the Codexes. I think Space Wolves will get covered too.

I thought Sisters were separate, my bad.

Yeah the list might be off, maybe they'll do a twofer on some of them.

But all of you skipped Thousand Sons :(

All they got was a Rubric article. From what little we know of DG from their article it already feels like the future CSM will be dominated by Nurgle and likely Khorne like the past 20 years.

 buddha wrote:
In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.

My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.

That FW datasheet fits in just normally. It's a HEAVY (Symbol in upper right corner), Faction Keywords: Chaos, <Mark of Chaos>, Heretic Astartes, <Legion>

So, if put in a Khorne army It is just a heavy support.

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

*Looks at my Rogue Trader/2E armies*

Yeah...you know I'm pretty sure you can still play with them...

 kronk wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.

I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines

Nvs wrote:


But all of you skipped Thousand Sons :(

All they got was a Rubric article. From what little we know of DG from their article it already feels like the future CSM will be dominated by Nurgle and likely Khorne like the past 20 years.

The books will be out in about 3 weeks, maynard.

 Accolade wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.

I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines

I'd be utterly shocked if this Autumn doesn't have a board game with plastic Mark 2 or Mark 5.

Ya know, since there is no Statistic cap anymore, this thing fights in combat at S16!

2+ to wound vs anything T8 or less.

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

*Looks at my Rogue Trader/2E armies*

Yeah...you know I'm pretty sure you can still play with them...

No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!

Or, you know, everyone can play with their toys forever more. One of the other.

Pete Melvin wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

*Looks at my Rogue Trader/2E armies*

Yeah...you know I'm pretty sure you can still play with them...

I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, and I'm positive I'm not the only one who wants Primaris marines to be no more than a single elite unit or centrepiece. The force is Space Marines, not Primaris Space Marines. Give them their own faction and don't force me to swallow that bs. (Addressed to GW)

Accolade wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.

I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines

This is my fear.