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 ergotoxin wrote:
How big are the new plague marines compared to DV Chosen? These were already little out of scale compared to regular marines.

Id say slightly taller. Maybe a head. Maybe not even that.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So... I'm not going to be playing 8th.

Stupid friends changing their stupid minds...

Do you friends play Tau and Eldar?

 JimOnMars wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So... I'm not going to be playing 8th.

Stupid friends changing their stupid minds...

Do you friends play Tau and Eldar?

 JimOnMars wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So... I'm not going to be playing 8th.

Stupid friends changing their stupid minds...

Do you friends play Tau and Eldar?

Orks and Orks (as well as various other mini armies). One doesn't like Plague Marines and one only wants to do Orks.

 Pete Melvin wrote:

MaxT wrote:



No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! *Vader pose*

Please stop quoting the ridiculous exaggerations in that post in your attempt to disprove an argument never made. No one here has suggested anything of the sort. Of course you'll be able to play with your old marines (now Adeptus Secundus) with some basic rules pushed out at the beginning with little to no support going forward since their focus will be on Adeptus Restartes from now on. If GW came out with a long dormant ancient race of pointy eared Aedarii Ultimatus which were the real culmination of the Old Ones work which were even more psychic and advanced and they just happened to be in cryosleep in even bigger and more wraithbonier craftworlds, Eldar players wouldn't be happy even if they got some rules to keep playing with their 1st edition metals. If Mad Dok RetKOn slapped together some fofum fungus to make a better variant of Orrukz that start out as big and powerful as nobz and are the true favored of Mork and Gork who quickly took power in the galaxies' Waaghs and formerly okr tribes (but you can still use your unevolved orks with some get by rules!), ork players would be unhappy. It's not just the scale change (like you're comparing it too) but the second class citizen nature of the old models both in the rules and the fluff combined with the scale change that has folks unhappy. Only the most head in the ground players deny what the end goal of this is unlike with the myriad of previous simple model rollouts.

Requizen wrote:
Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die. Things moving quickly is much more exciting, I'll be happy for games that come down to a few models rather than an unkillable deathstar or piddly slapping matches because the old AP and Morale systems were garbage.

Quicker games = more games. Quicker games = more time to look at display boards at events.

Exalted.

The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Scroll up a bit and you'll see answers. But in short, GW stated that the Chaos Gods are not going to sit idly by and watch new marines come out. They've been busy too, giving power, creating new things. Nurgle especially likes to create new stuff, it's part of his portfolio.

I don't care what the fluff reasons are. You can use the fluff to justify anything. These are the blatant first steps to utterly replace several entire model lines, rendering armies across the world essentially obsolete.

It just seems so cynical, and is another example of GW burning their legacy Warhammer Fantasy style to, what, sell some new miniatures?

Many often comment that GW occasionally shoot themselves in the foot. This seems like like GW sawing their own arms off because they think it'll make them more aerodynamic!

I don't agree. For one due to seeing several different examples it looks like the new DG vary in height instead of being a uniform size (which works for me since the actual Marines should vary in height as well).

And two, a slow replacement of Marines (assuming it to be happening at all) is better than a massive dump of new models and taking the old stuff away.

Frankly at this point, what can they give Marines other than an upscaled version that are the correct size? I can,t think of anything from the fluff or HH they could really squeeze in, so bringing in a truescale model line replacement is honestly the best choice going forward. Making them a part of the lore and rules lets people have a reason to get invested in them and to start collecting them. Plus we might get a neat civil war campaign story out of this where some chapters refuse to use them and but heads with Guilliman over it.

strongly disagree. Ii would have been a lot better to have pretty much all the numarines at once, instead of having two nearly identical armies (one being slighty larger than the other)

 Ratius wrote:
FW datasheet the only update for today?
No faction focus?

They're every other day

Tomorrow is Orks

 warboss wrote:
That's an apples to oranges comparison. Your RT are *EXACTLY* the same as 2nd edition monopose, 2nd-7th edition metals and finecasts, and 3rd-7th edition plastics in the fluff and the rules.

Nope, apples-to-apples. Rogue Trader stuff is shorter and not just gangly. Of course you'd know that if you had any Oldhammer stuff. Current Eldar are a bit short next to IG (read: normal humans) and are eye-to-eye with RT guardians, except all the current plastics are Gangnam Style while the old metals are standing tall. Marines are all over the board. Don't put an original beakie next to you Deathwatch, it might destroy your whole argument. Heck, even the Black Reach/Vedros stuff is almost a head taller than RT Marines.

Everything happening now has happened before.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
SM Lieutenants had rules and models throughout 1st Edition and functioned basically as 1st officiers to the Commander They were independent characters with minor hero stats (champions, minor heroes and major heroes stat categories were used for most 40k factions). I am happy they are going to bring them back too.

Another great idea from the Rogue Trader era resurrected.

I will admit that the Lieutenant model with the bolt rifle is a little plain looking, but it's still a nice model for sure. Perhaps I can add some bling to it. It's great that they're releasing enough to make an all primaris army. I can't wait to see potential future tanks.

3rd ed (both the initial get by lists in the rulebook and the codex books) had three tiers of space marine commanders down to iirc either the same as a vet sergeant, a two wound variant equal roughly to chaplains, and then the full 3 wound variant. I too lamented their demise as I did the tau subcommander.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die. Things moving quickly is much more exciting, I'll be happy for games that come down to a few models rather than an unkillable deathstar or piddly slapping matches because the old AP and Morale systems were garbage.

Quicker games = more games. Quicker games = more time to look at display boards at events.

Exalted.

The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.

Yeah dunno it what edition models were staying on the table any longer than in 8th (so far) but 7th was always ether you remove entire units of normal stuff, or you overbuffed the crap out of one cheese unit and it ran around for days deleting your opponents units.

im fine with things dying. so long as they are dying from both sides. ( i guess 5th..6th? had parking lots of undying vehicles)

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So... I'm not going to be playing 8th.

Stupid friends changing their stupid minds...

Do you friends play Tau and Eldar?

Orks and Orks (as well as various other mini armies). One doesn't like Plague Marines and one only wants to do Orks.

Wait what, as an Ork player myself I can't wait to be done with 7th.

 RamblingCompanyGaming wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So... I'm not going to be playing 8th.

Stupid friends changing their stupid minds...

Do you friends play Tau and Eldar?

Orks and Orks (as well as various other mini armies). One doesn't like Plague Marines and one only wants to do Orks.

Wait what, as an Ork player myself I can't wait to be done with 7th.

They're fine with 8th it's just one doesn't want to buy anything and one wants to wait for a while.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 warboss wrote:
That's an apples to oranges comparison. Your RT are *EXACTLY* the same as 2nd edition monopose, 2nd-7th edition metals and finecasts, and 3rd-7th edition plastics in the fluff and the rules.

Nope, apples-to-apples. Rogue Trader stuff is shorter and not just gangly. Of course you'd know that if you had any Oldhammer stuff. Current Eldar are a bit short next to IG (read: normal humans) and are eye-to-eye with RT guardians, except all the current plastics are Gangnam Style while the old metals are standing tall. Marines are all over the board. Don't put an original beakie next to you Deathwatch, it might destroy your whole argument. Heck, even the Black Reach/Vedros stuff is almost a head taller than RT Marines.

Everything happening now has happened before.

You missed the key part in your zeal to disprove a point never made. I'll repeat it in bigger font all caps for you so you won't miss it again. They're the same IN THE FLUFF AND THE RULES with previous model rollouts. Please endeavor to read the whole sentence before you attempt to refute it next time.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 RamblingCompanyGaming wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So... I'm not going to be playing 8th.

Stupid friends changing their stupid minds...

Do you friends play Tau and Eldar?

Orks and Orks (as well as various other mini armies). One doesn't like Plague Marines and one only wants to do Orks.

Wait what, as an Ork player myself I can't wait to be done with 7th.

They're fine with 8th it's just one doesn't want to buy anything and one wants to wait for a while.

I guess that is fair.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:


They're fine with 8th it's just one doesn't want to buy anything and one wants to wait for a while.

you dont really need to... the rules should be free and at best you need to bone out 25$ for an index or 2 if thats what you are into and then you are golden. (i mean unless you are literally homeless and cant afford a book)

In other news I am very sick of Orks. Everywhere I go it's either Orks or Blood Ravens.

So, relating to upcoming multipart kits, do you guys remember this pic?


I am not imagining, that some sort of a combiweapon, right?

 Future War Cultist wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die. Things moving quickly is much more exciting, I'll be happy for games that come down to a few models rather than an unkillable deathstar or piddly slapping matches because the old AP and Morale systems were garbage.

Quicker games = more games. Quicker games = more time to look at display boards at events.

Exalted.

The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.

True that.

And how AoS deals with victory conditions is also better than 7th Ed 40k, for the simple fact that wiping out the oppoent isn't always an auto-win.

Yes, it's still possible to win by tabling someone, but without it being an automatic thing you're less incentivised to make armies where that's the sole aim.

That breeds diversity of list, which brings diversity of challenge, which helps to make metagaming far harder to follow for easy wins.

Tomorrow we're promised info on 40k's take. I really hope they've gone for something similar.

Exalted.

The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.

Well either way I plan to give it a try. Just my enthusiasm has dropped significantly. I didn't play much of 7th edition mostly because I saw exactly the same thing.

Removed as OT by Youn.

Please take off-topic discussion of IRL warfare to a thread in the OT forum. Thanks!

The problem with vehicle facing is its a good rule, but they made other rules that make it obsolete with no regards to the facing rule whatsoever.

Drop pods filled with melta/grav. Armor values mean practically nothing when you can place your models wherever you like on the board just inches away with guns that do quad damage to vehicles. Do you think GW gave a gak? Heck the actively encouraged people not to buy vehicles by making every single giant robot after the gorkanaut (poor orks) a monstrous creature. That was their 'fix' to vehicles sucking: buy more models.

I'm optimistic about 8th cutting back on the deepstrike/outflank nonsense. We'll have to see how survivable things really are though.

Requizen wrote:

Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die.

I don't think anyone said they shouldn't. I think they just want their army to last longer in the game than it takes to unpack them and set them up.

Things moving quickly is much more exciting,

For you. I certainly don't want games that drag on forever (been their/done that with other systems), but I don't want a game that is over in 15 minutes, either.

Daedalus81 wrote:
The last thing I do is admire models while i'm playing. I get that out of the way when they're on their display boards and I can appreciate them fully.

That's fine at a tournament where people set up their armies on display boards for judging. I've never seen anyone do that for a pick up game at the FLGS. Most times, the only opportunity I get to admire my opponent's army is during the game.

 Crimson wrote:

Requizen wrote:

You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.

No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.

exactly, those who thinks that the two range of almost exactly similar marines will be supported in the future are deluding themselves

I'm quite pleased that Orks, Tau and Tyranids are all in the same book. Orks were my first 40K army (only a small force though, 6 squads of boyz (2 Choppaz, 1 shootaz, 1 'Ard Boyz, 1 Stormboyz, 1 Kommandos) warbuggy and wartrak, Ghaz and a couple of Killa Kans (with Skorchas as back in 4th they had WS4 and BS2), then Tau and I've wanted to build a Tyranid army for a while but held off partly due to money but also due to the fact that the build I'd want to run wasn't really competitive against, well, anything

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Requizen wrote:

You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.

No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.

exactly, those who thinks that the two range of almost exactly similar marines will be supported in the future are deluding themselves

It's obviously ridiculous.

If that were the case they'd have done it ages ago with different ranges for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Deathwatch rather than stick with just the standard Marine range.

Or they would have fleshed out the line into different Armour Marks first... maybe they would have developed a game based around 18 different types of marines which would have all been supported by Forgeworld.

Obviously they won't support Primaris Marines as well! Laughable!

Vorian wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Requizen wrote:

You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.

No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.

exactly, those who thinks that the two range of almost exactly similar marines will be supported in the future are deluding themselves

It's obviously ridiculous.

If that were the case they'd have done it ages ago with different ranges for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Deathwatch rather than stick with just the standard Marine range.

you do realise that there is a lot more difference between these marines and regular marines than between the numarines and the regurlar ones? They are pretty much exactly the same models but scaled up. Anyway, Hasting already said that the old marines won't get much if any support from now on.


I know for some it is hard to admit since it goes against their ''GW can do no wrong'' narrative (and seeing this as a wrong is kind of a stretch, even if I don't like the numarines), but it is obvious that the numarines are a replacement for the old ones

I really like the mechanic of having berserkers fight twice rather than simply giving them a ridiculous number of attacks. I'm just guessing, but I think that means on the charge they'd go once first and then once as a normal activation, and in other rounds be activated twice in HtH. That gives people some chance to swing back, and also adds the coolness of two pile ins to move your Khorne stuff closer to the enemy whist in HtH. Very cool.

It'll be interestign to see how many attacks they have in each of those rounds. They're losing the pistol shot, and may or may not get +1 A on the charge, and currently have just the one base attack. Personally, I'd think they'd have at least 2 base attacks, otherwise they're not really wrecking that much shop, even going twice.

Just for giggles, a unit of 12 with 2A each rolls 24 dice, hits 16 times, gets four more attacks from Dttfe, hits in 2,6 of those, for 18.66 hits. That's keen, then double it and take a little of the top for possible casualties and they're hitting something like 25 times a round. Depending on what their axes do that does sound pretty intense. Way less so if they stay a base 1A though. Interesting.

That undermines your point even more. They have maintained multiple lines of virtually identical marines for ages.

The normal marines aren't going anywhere for many years.

Will they get new releases? I doubt it, apart from Scouts They have a huge range of the best GW can do. That doesn't mean they are going to be being withdrawn

Edit : it's nothing to do with GW doing no wrong, it's people making up nonsense and declaring it as fact, after which we get the dramatic whinges about how terrible it is GW are doing the totally made up thing. It's tiresome.