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Had a look at the models today, luckily walked in as boss man was painting up the Nurgle Lord, they just look awesome. The Gravis Captain is nicer in person too, kinda getting used to the fat belly armour.

 Deadshot wrote:



An argument could be made that if they can still "upgrade" Primaris with bionics, why bother with Primaris at all and not have Cawl bionic-up ever Marines?

If I was a space nerd, and had to choose between inventing a pill that steroid jacks everyone or going one at a time and applying the imperial marine Ikea kit to them I'd certainly go with the pill.

I just hope they make ork builds like a mek/walker build a lot stronger. It's annoying when a giant mega dreadnought can't damage a single marine.

Missions today, we getting a bonus article?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/25/new-warhammer-40000-missions/

Isen't the Power level exactly like the system used in AoS?

I didn't think i'd be into narrative, but thoes strategems look pretty cool for some thematic battles

Huh. Cool, Sentries are back for some missions.

Looks like seize the initiative is also out.

Alternate deployment,finally.

Lord Kragan wrote:
So today is Orks faction focus. What will be your thoughts.

Same thing as every faction focus:

"[Unit Name] is going to be fantastic in the new edition! Thanks to [New Bespoke Rule], [Unit Name] will be seen on every table. And remember how [Unit Name] never saw play? Well that's all changed in the New™ Warhammer™ 40,000™. [Unit Name] has been completely redesigned, and thanks to the new rules in the [Phase Name Here] we think all of you will see how good [Unit Name] can be! We can't wait for all you [Faction Name] players out there to get your hands on them this June!"

I laughed so hard at this. I started out reading the first 2-3 faction focus's pretty intently thinking the information might be reasonably relevant... and now that MY one and only faction I play has come up... Im pretty certain a plagiarism checker would slap your quote with a 98% accurate result

I have to say the missions sound pretty good, and they set up stuff for imbalances between the lists which is nice.

 Coyote81 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

Do you know how well those Rubrics murder infantry?

They're not meant to take on a massive dreadnought. We also have nothing on weapon costs, which power level cares nothing about.

 BrookM wrote:
Looks like seize the initiative is also out.

GOOD. That was a stupid mechanic and I'm glad it's gone.

I kind of hope Underdog comes to Matched Play. It would be interesting to see people bring lower points to tournaments to try and sneak out an advantage. Metagaming at its finest.

So what happened to the Ork Focus?

Requizen wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Looks like seize the initiative is also out.

GOOD. That was a stupid mechanic and I'm glad it's gone.

I kind of hope Underdog comes to Matched Play. It would be interesting to see people bring lower points to tournaments to try and sneak out an advantage. Metagaming at its finest.

It dosen't seem like that much of an advantage though, does it? I get to bring 19 points more then you, and you get to re-roll 1 dice

It's not a point you can spend on anything els, it's a CP re-roll

Sounds like match play still uses the book missions with very little change. Which imho is horrible for balance purposes. The current core book maerlstrom and war missions are horribly biased toward elite mobile armies such as eldar. Which is why nearly every tournament creates thier own multi tiered mission primer with several objectives. If the core missions are still simply get the objective, or kill point or relic there was a huge reason why jetbikes warp spiders etc and hard to kill fast units dominated 7th

Requizen wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Looks like seize the initiative is also out.

GOOD. That was a stupid mechanic and I'm glad it's gone.

I kind of hope Underdog comes to Matched Play. It would be interesting to see people bring lower points to tournaments to try and sneak out an advantage. Metagaming at its finest.

While at first I thought having seize was at least something, I totally agree that their should be better ways in securing first turn, such as taking less points, spending command points, etc. Never liked how i always considered the Callidus assain just so I could secure 1st turn easier.

 Mr Morden wrote:
So what happened to the Ork Focus?

Focus articles drop a bit later in the day, usually.

 alextroy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So what happened to the Ork Focus?

Focus articles drop a bit later in the day, usually.

no set time either

F5 for the waaaaggh

FunJohn wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Looks like seize the initiative is also out.

GOOD. That was a stupid mechanic and I'm glad it's gone.

I kind of hope Underdog comes to Matched Play. It would be interesting to see people bring lower points to tournaments to try and sneak out an advantage. Metagaming at its finest.

It dosen't seem like that much of an advantage though, does it? I get to bring 19 points more then you, and you get to re-roll 1 dice

It's not a point you can spend on anything els, it's a CP re-roll

Rerolls are a big deal. Rerolling that save on your Primarch against a Damage 6 weapon is a big deal. And being able to pick who goes first/second is pretty large as well.

Also note in Victory Conditions, the Underdog wins in the case of a tie, so taking less points actually increases your chances of winning if the game is close.

 Latro_ wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So what happened to the Ork Focus?

Focus articles drop a bit later in the day, usually.

no set time either

F5 for the waaaaggh

One hour after the rule teaser article (assuming both are right on time) is usually a good point lately.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

Do you know how well those Rubrics murder infantry?

They're not meant to take on a massive dreadnought. We also have nothing on weapon costs, which power level cares nothing about.

The point is that even tho they murder infantry, do you think they murder stuff better then the leviathan dread? He murders everything and barely cost more in power level.

Requizen wrote:

FunJohn wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Looks like seize the initiative is also out.

GOOD. That was a stupid mechanic and I'm glad it's gone.

I kind of hope Underdog comes to Matched Play. It would be interesting to see people bring lower points to tournaments to try and sneak out an advantage. Metagaming at its finest.

It dosen't seem like that much of an advantage though, does it? I get to bring 19 points more then you, and you get to re-roll 1 dice

It's not a point you can spend on anything els, it's a CP re-roll

Rerolls are a big deal. Rerolling that save on your Primarch against a Damage 6 weapon is a big deal. And being able to pick who goes first/second is pretty large as well.

Also note in Victory Conditions, the Underdog wins in the case of a tie, so taking less points actually increases your chances of winning if the game is close.

Indeed they are. I imagine Corbulo will give you extra rerolls.

 Coyote81 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

Do you know how well those Rubrics murder infantry?

They're not meant to take on a massive dreadnought. We also have nothing on weapon costs, which power level cares nothing about.

The point is that even tho they murder infantry, do you think they murder stuff better then the leviathan dread? He murders everything and barely cost more in power level.

Not really. His guns are powerful, but they're all relatively low number of shots but high damage. Damage doesn't carry over models, so those big guns are going to kill ~5 Marines really dead. Rubric Marines with Soulreaper Cannons or Warpflamers are going to kill more 1 wound models because they just have more shots, period. Damage 3 doesn't mean anything against infantry.

gungo wrote:
Sounds like match play still uses the book missions with very little change. Which imho is horrible for balance purposes. The current core book maerlstrom and war missions are horribly biased toward elite mobile armies such as eldar. Which is why nearly every tournament creates thier own multi tiered mission primer with several objectives. If the core missions are still simply get the objective, or kill point or relic there was a huge reason why jetbikes warp spiders etc and hard to kill fast units dominated 7th

This is balanced by non elite armies now being better at controlling the objectives. Like in AoS, you now control the point if you have more models than the enemy near it.
If you have an IK on the point and i have 2 hormagaunst, i control the point.

Requizen wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

Do you know how well those Rubrics murder infantry?

They're not meant to take on a massive dreadnought. We also have nothing on weapon costs, which power level cares nothing about.

The point is that even tho they murder infantry, do you think they murder stuff better then the leviathan dread? He murders everything and barely cost more in power level.

Not really. His guns are powerful, but they're all relatively low number of shots but high damage. Damage doesn't carry over models, so those big guns are going to kill ~5 Marines really dead. Rubric Marines with Soulreaper Cannons or Warpflamers are going to kill more 1 wound models because they just have more shots, period. Damage 3 doesn't mean anything against infantry.

Don't tell Terminators and Primaris Marines that.

He has 2 meltas and 2 flamers. That's it.

13 Rubrics are a bit less PL than the Leviathan.

Rubrics shooting Spesh Muhreens 13 shots, 8.7 hits, 4.3 wounds, 2.9 dead // 5.8 in double tap range Leavianthan 2 shots, 1.7 hits, 1.4 wounds, 1.2 dead 7 hits, 4.7 wounds, 2.3 dead

Leviathan as stock can kill 3.5 marines at 8".
Rubrics can kill 5.8 at 12" and are killing marines way before the dreadnought does.


Rubrics in melee w/ Spesh Muhreens 13 attacks, 8.7 hits, 4.3 wounds, 1.4 dead Leavianthan 5 attacks, 4.2 hits, 3.5 wounds, 2.9

I would hardly call that a massive advantage after those shooting numbers.

Bring the right tool for the job.

Obviously the biggers guns make the dreadnought way better, but we have no idea what the points cost for those will be. Power Levels give NO consideration to selected options and they aren't meant to.

Requizen wrote:

FunJohn wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Looks like seize the initiative is also out.

GOOD. That was a stupid mechanic and I'm glad it's gone.

I kind of hope Underdog comes to Matched Play. It would be interesting to see people bring lower points to tournaments to try and sneak out an advantage. Metagaming at its finest.

It dosen't seem like that much of an advantage though, does it? I get to bring 19 points more then you, and you get to re-roll 1 dice

It's not a point you can spend on anything els, it's a CP re-roll

Rerolls are a big deal. Rerolling that save on your Primarch against a Damage 6 weapon is a big deal. And being able to pick who goes first/second is pretty large as well.

Also note in Victory Conditions, the Underdog wins in the case of a tie, so taking less points actually increases your chances of winning if the game is close.

Okay that last bit about the ties does make a difference. Fair enough, but I'd take 19 points over one re-roll any single day. It's ONE save, your got 19 extra points to take stuff that will make sure that that single re-roll dosen't matter.
Ask a tournament player if he'd like a re-roll or 3-400 more points that his enemy.

Spoletta wrote:

gungo wrote:
Sounds like match play still uses the book missions with very little change. Which imho is horrible for balance purposes. The current core book maerlstrom and war missions are horribly biased toward elite mobile armies such as eldar. Which is why nearly every tournament creates thier own multi tiered mission primer with several objectives. If the core missions are still simply get the objective, or kill point or relic there was a huge reason why jetbikes warp spiders etc and hard to kill fast units dominated 7th

This is balanced by non elite armies now being better at controlling the objectives. Like in AoS, you now control the point if you have more models than the enemy near it.
If you have an IK on the point and i have 2 hormagaunst, i control the point.

Not only that, the army with the lower power rating wins in a tie. So people that spam high power level units will lose. That's smart design. I think it'll be fine.

 Coyote81 wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

Do you know how well those Rubrics murder infantry?

They're not meant to take on a massive dreadnought. We also have nothing on weapon costs, which power level cares nothing about.

The point is that even tho they murder infantry, do you think they murder stuff better then the leviathan dread? He murders everything and barely cost more in power level.

Not really. His guns are powerful, but they're all relatively low number of shots but high damage. Damage doesn't carry over models, so those big guns are going to kill ~5 Marines really dead. Rubric Marines with Soulreaper Cannons or Warpflamers are going to kill more 1 wound models because they just have more shots, period. Damage 3 doesn't mean anything against infantry.

Don't tell Terminators and Primaris Marines that.

You mean something meant to kill Elite troops is good at killing Elite troops better than something designed to kill Troops? You don't say? Since you're using specifics, take that dread against a horde of hormagaunts and then let the Rubrics do the same. Bet the Rubrics kill far more.

Spoletta wrote:

gungo wrote:
Sounds like match play still uses the book missions with very little change. Which imho is horrible for balance purposes. The current core book maerlstrom and war missions are horribly biased toward elite mobile armies such as eldar. Which is why nearly every tournament creates thier own multi tiered mission primer with several objectives. If the core missions are still simply get the objective, or kill point or relic there was a huge reason why jetbikes warp spiders etc and hard to kill fast units dominated 7th

This is balanced by non elite armies now being better at controlling the objectives. Like in AoS, you now control the point if you have more models than the enemy near it.
If you have an IK on the point and i have 2 hormagaunst, i control the point.

Is that how obj secured or whatever it's called works in 8th I don't recall seeing that furthermore this still doesn't dolce the issue which made mobility huge in 7th missions or his kil points favored elite small armies. If I pull up a marlstrom card for an objective halfway across the board with no units close enough it still doesn't alleviate the issue of mobility. It's not a massive issue with match play but I can garauntee most tournaments will just create thier own mission primer

So reading that Only War mission... The way it's worded implies that there are two or more mission objectives, but I don't see any 'secondary objectives' listed. I also don't see why it's necessary to to award 6 VP's for Ancient Relic - it's an all or nothing mission objective if there are no secondary objectives.