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Lord Kragan wrote:

 Megaknob wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
So today is Orks faction focus. What will be your thoughts.

Well we can't get any worse.

You still have initiative. 1. Everyone goes before you always. No saves. Ld2 and unable to use stratagems. Also, 50% increase on everything. You're welcome.

Sorry, are you describing what they did to Killa Kanz from the 5th to the 7th codex?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's a starter set....hence monopose gribblies.

We've not seen a possible multi-part set.

Just like the multi-part Chaos Cultists GW relea... oh wait.

Justyn wrote:
Well I believe they are picking the timeline back up years later.

So the game is set in M42?

Lord Kragan wrote:
So today is Orks faction focus. What will be your thoughts.

Same thing as every faction focus:

"[Unit Name] is going to be fantastic in the new edition! Thanks to [New Bespoke Rule], [Unit Name] will be seen on every table. And remember how [Unit Name] never saw play? Well that's all changed in the New™ Warhammer™ 40,000™. [Unit Name] has been completely redesigned, and thanks to the new rules in the [Phase Name Here] we think all of you will see how good [Unit Name] can be! We can't wait for all you [Faction Name] players out there to get your hands on them this June!"

Visited my local GW today to see some of the minis in person, namely a Plague Marine, the main Nurgle character, a pox walker and a Primaris Marine. I must say they looked a lot better in person than my initial impressions suggested, the Plague Marine especially looked a lot less "busy". When comparing them to one of the Dark Vengeance tactical marines they are just massive but also far better miniatures. Am stoked by this release.

 Azegoroth wrote:
A thought on primaris marines.

The Iron hands probably will like them a lot, they are made with the help of a Magos, whom they respect. And they are all about enhancing themselves.

Its an interesting thought because as you say, the Iron Hands are about upgrading, but also "The Flesh is Weak" and that they need to replace as much of themselves as possible with mechanical upgrades. Some of those upgrades may actually be inferior to the new and improved PriMarines. How would they handle that realisation, that the flesh is superior.

Upcoming Orks faction focus. Hoping a warboss will be a lot 'arder, 3 wounds is not especially tough in this edition with all the multiwound weapons, last edition they had t5 which was enough to avoid instadeath by most weapons. Mob rule needs to be way better as well.

I'm personally hoping that Mob Rule acts as a counter to morale. Maybe not on the level of Tyranids ignoring it under certain conditions, but perhaps for every 5 models in the unit, you +1 (or -1? Whichever is preferable) to morale tests. Meaning the more you take, the less you lose to Morale Tests, but the more you lose, the more you lose. It would certainly encourage larger squads and thus model sales so I could see it going that route.

I definitely think Warbosses will be tougher. I could see T6 and W5-6 as a base. Maybe Ghaz will finally get his MC version, with T8 and 10 wounds.

 Deadshot wrote:
Its an interesting thought because as you say, the Iron Hands are about upgrading, but also "The Flesh is Weak" and that they need to replace as much of themselves as possible with mechanical upgrades. Some of those upgrades may actually be inferior to the new and improved PriMarines. How would they handle that realisation, that the flesh is superior.

I reckon that even Cawl would be pissed off if, after spending all this time making Super Marines, the Iron Hands just start sawing bits of them to replace them with bionics.

So I was thinking about the whole power level thing, and I think we all are coming from the power level numbers from the wrong direction.

I don't think power level is a point equivalent system. I think it's more like a danger rating. So when you go to play narrative or open games, you just talk to your opponent, determine how many units, or what Battlefroge table to use, and then state no units over power level 10. This is a super easy way to field an army, For example. You could fill your troops slots with units of rubric marines, but you couldn't make them a 10man because there power level would increase to 11. You couldn't bring the swarm lord at all.

Overall this would create a somewhat balanced game because all the units (as long as you state how many units each person can bring or pick a battleforge list as a limiter) would be on the same level or effectiveness. It would be a far better system then bringing the equal number of model system that AoS started with, but without overly complicating the army building for narrative/open play.

Honestly, being a long time competitive player, if narrative games are done this way, it might actually be an interesting way to play.

In this system, there is no need to compare the Knight Titan to 4 units of 5 man Rubrics, because that not what it's meant for, the power level just shows you that the KT is far more dangerous and thus should only be played in games where each person agrees to play super dangerous units.

Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

 Coyote81 wrote:
So I was thinking about the whole power level thing, and I think we all are coming from the power level numbers from the wrong direction.

I don't think power level is a point equivalent system. I think it's more like a danger rating. So when you go to play narrative or open games, you just talk to your opponent, determine how many units, or what Battlefroge table to use, and then state no units over power level 10. This is a super easy way to field an army, For example. You could fill your troops slots with units of rubric marines, but you couldn't make them a 10man because there power level would increase to 11. You couldn't bring the swarm lord at all.

Overall this would create a somewhat balanced game because all the units (as long as you state how many units each person can bring or pick a battleforge list as a limiter) would be on the same level or effectiveness. It would be a far better system then bringing the equal number of model system that AoS started with, but without overly complicating the army building for narrative/open play.

Honestly, being a long time competitive player, if narrative games are done this way, it might actually be an interesting way to play.

In this system, there is no need to compare the Knight Titan to 4 units of 5 man Rubrics, because that not what it's meant for, the power level just shows you that the KT is far more dangerous and thus should only be played in games where each person agrees to play super dangerous units.

I think this is a fantastic idea and makes much more sense than before.

So in your system, both players can take 4 Troops and 1 Elites unit, but no unit may have a power rating of more than, say 15? So tacticals would be fine, Rubrics fine, maybe Sternguard fine, Striking Scorpions fine, Siege Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders not? I like it. Keeps everything on equal power, rather than "I bring 4 squads you bring 1 titan"

 Coyote81 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

It's pretty hard to talk balance without a full picture

They've already stated what Power level is. It's not what Coyote81 wrote. Fine if you wanna use it like that, but that's not its purpose.

Forgeworld minis in AoS have a pretty terrible reputation for being rediculously under or over pointed compared to the main studio stuff. Hopefully the 40k stuff will be better balanced but the first hint is not very promising.

The article about it: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/12/new-warhammer-40000-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/ talks about it almost certainly working like the AoS system

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's a starter set....hence monopose gribblies.

We've not seen a possible multi-part set.

Just like the multi-part Chaos Cultists GW relea... oh wait.

Justyn wrote:
Well I believe they are picking the timeline back up years later.

So the game is set in M42?

Lord Kragan wrote:
So today is Orks faction focus. What will be your thoughts.

Same thing as every faction focus:

"[Unit Name] is going to be fantastic in the new edition! Thanks to [New Bespoke Rule], [Unit Name] will be seen on every table. And remember how [Unit Name] never saw play? Well that's all changed in the New™ Warhammer™ 40,000™. [Unit Name] has been completely redesigned, and thanks to the new rules in the [Phase Name Here] we think all of you will see how good [Unit Name] can be! We can't wait for all you [Faction Name] players out there to get your hands on them this June!"

And suddenly Flash Gitz get the Pyrovore treatment and become the Best Unit Evar(tm).

Lord Kragan wrote:
So today is Orks faction focus. What will be your thoughts.

I think we'll see a lot of bonuses for hordes. Would not be surprised if the number of models in the units add to their attacks. I hope they are amazing in close combat with lots of dakka dakka!

I'm not the type of person that would play Orks, but I always enjoyed playing against them. Bad thing is I would destroy them at their own game (assault). I really hope they are good and fun to play against. Ork players are crazy. Love those guys. They need an army that represents them well..

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Internet is loving to photoshop the new kids on the block in different colors and frankly I think it's actually helping make them look better than they do in the promotional shots:


I don't want to sound like I'm hating on the Ultramarines, I mean I LIKE the color blue, but something about it doesn't seem to work on the Primaris Marines like other colors do.

Oh. My. God. Those are BEAUTIFUL. That's it, I'm getting some for my Salamanders.

Vorian wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Pretty sure power level is going to work exactly like the system in AoS, which is a simpler points system

Well the AoS simple point system seems somewhat balanced, a comparison of the power level system so far from what we have seen is very broken if done the AoS. 11 powerlevel for 10x kitted out rubric marines, 16 for that kitted out Leviathan Dreadnought. System broken already.

It's pretty hard to talk balance without a full picture

This. I'd be cautious about thinking Power Level is going to a great indication of anything as well. From accounts of one of the playtesters, Power Level is a "very rough approximation".

From what we've seen with Orks, my initial impression is that Ork Shooty units in transports will be the way to go. Still decent in cc, and you can have a couple of guys in each squad (Nob, Painboy, etc...) kitted out for cc, so you'll drive forward as far as you can, unload a ton of Dakka, weather the return fire, jump out of your transport (if it's still there), have your transport charge in to absorb fire and then charge in da boyz. Actually sounds like fun.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/6d2ewn/salamander_primaris_captain_photoshop/

Here is the link to the thread where the guy is doing those photo shops, he has a bunch of other chapters in there as well.

Vorian wrote:
The article about it: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/12/new-warhammer-40000-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/ talks about it almost certainly working like the AoS system

That article doesn't invalidate my idea. Your still going to have someone with the highest total power level even if there is a power level limit for individual units.

 Deadshot wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Shooter wrote:

Fluff wise, I guess there is little reason for Primaris to be different between different chapters, as they all have the same geneseed and none of the chapter-specific 'biologies', I think? Which also helps GW as they don't need to do chapter-specific models, you wouldn't expect wolf pelts on SW Primaris marines, or extra wings all over the place for DA ones.

Though yes, I expect there will be some CCW ones. Not making the best use of the 2 attacks without them.

The Primaris Marines don't all have the same gene seed. They were made using the gene seed stores that the Ad Mech had available to them(probably the stuff that gets tithed to them). There is just additional genetic modification done beyond that point. There was talk of extra organs being grown. But ultimately, the Dark Angels will receive Primaris Marines that are derived from their own gene stock, same with Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and so on. They are generically equipped at this time, but once they reach their Chapters (and those Chapters start modifying existing Marines using the updated process), Chapter specific variations will start to arise.

They'll run into problems though with the Space Wolves, as Space Wolf geneseed only works with Fenrisians. Unless Guilliman patched this issue, but why would he, because giving the Space Wolves the ability to have successors would just lead to more and more Codex Divergent chapters.

The original Space Wolves legion was full of members from Terra and other worlds though, so clearly there is some kind of solution there.

Who knows, we'll have to see exactly ow GW handles that or if they ignore that fluff.

"These can be used to very quickly throw together two roughly equal forces to fight a battle."

You're just adding them up. Whereas what you're suggesting is completely from the aether.

 nintura wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Internet is loving to photoshop the new kids on the block in different colors and frankly I think it's actually helping make them look better than they do in the promotional shots:


I don't want to sound like I'm hating on the Ultramarines, I mean I LIKE the color blue, but something about it doesn't seem to work on the Primaris Marines like other colors do.

Oh. My. God. Those are BEAUTIFUL. That's it, I'm getting some for my Salamanders.

I wish I didn't suck at Photoshop so I could see what they look like in Blood Angels and Crimson Fists colors.

In the thread I linked above he has done both of those

 Megaknob wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
So today is Orks faction focus. What will be your thoughts.

Well we can't get any worse.

Oh yes you can.

I wasn't impressed with the Space Wolf 'shop at all. I hope if/when they do make Space wolf Primaris, they do it justice.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Internet is loving to photoshop the new kids on the block in different colors and frankly I think it's actually helping make them look better than they do in the promotional shots:


I don't want to sound like I'm hating on the Ultramarines, I mean I LIKE the color blue, but something about it doesn't seem to work on the Primaris Marines like other colors do.

Oh. My. God. Those are BEAUTIFUL. That's it, I'm getting some for my Salamanders.

I wish I didn't suck at Photoshop so I could see what they look like in Blood Angels and Crimson Fists colors.

They have adone a few at user requests in the previously linked reddit discussion, just so happens a BA was one of them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Its an interesting thought because as you say, the Iron Hands are about upgrading, but also "The Flesh is Weak" and that they need to replace as much of themselves as possible with mechanical upgrades. Some of those upgrades may actually be inferior to the new and improved PriMarines. How would they handle that realisation, that the flesh is superior.

I reckon that even Cawl would be pissed off if, after spending all this time making Super Marines, the Iron Hands just start sawing bits of them to replace them with bionics.

You mean replacing their bodies with machines just like he has?

Oh the irony of that tantrum would be delicious.

 Leth wrote:


In the thread I linked above he has done both of those

I missed it before. The Blood Angel looks pretty nice. However, they committed Cardinal Sin #1 with the Crimson Fist. They don't follow the standard color schemes. Their helmets never change based on rank, so the helmet should still be blue. Also, the right fist on the Captain would likely be red.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Its an interesting thought because as you say, the Iron Hands are about upgrading, but also "The Flesh is Weak" and that they need to replace as much of themselves as possible with mechanical upgrades. Some of those upgrades may actually be inferior to the new and improved PriMarines. How would they handle that realisation, that the flesh is superior.

I reckon that even Cawl would be pissed off if, after spending all this time making Super Marines, the Iron Hands just start sawing bits of them to replace them with bionics.

You mean replacing their bodies with machines just like he has?

Oh the irony of that tantrum would be delicious.

An argument could be made that if they can still "upgrade" Primaris with bionics, why bother with Primaris at all and not have Cawl bionic-up ever Marines?