Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pretty sure they have been moving away from models in transports having an impact on units outside of transports in both 7th ed and for some reason I thought they said it would continue in this edition that while in a transport they are effectively off the table.

Might just be mis-remembering.

Either way who knows, maybe the Big ork Walkers might get a force field that will apply to vehicles? MAybe they get upgrades that make them more durable. There are so many things that are still possible.

 Latro_ wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

FNP is going to be much rarer, and has it been discussed yet if "FNP" rolls are made against the To Wound roll (so can potentially negate all D6 Dmg?) or against individual wounds (so can save 2 wounds but the other 4 from the lascannon get through)?

Was just saying, you said its enhanced... its not enhanced its worse than now for normal boyz as they typically dont get shot by high S weapons

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.

The sisters/inquisition/agents of imperium faction focus is all Im waiting for now

Fun lil pic posted on Facebook

Orks can't even shoot straight... you'll be fine out there

I am waiting for Talons of the Emperor faction focus. Maybe they will reveal more Custodes options like ones from FW Inferno.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.

Space Marine, Necron, Imperial Agent, AdMech and the best of all the Primaris Space Marine.

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.

Space Marine, Necron, Imperial Agent, AdMech and the best of all the Primaris Space Marine.

How can you forget this guy?

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.

Space Marine, Necron, Imperial Agent, AdMech and the best of all the Primaris Space Marine.

They'll be looking at Primaris tomorrow. Didn't sound like a full faction-focus though.

DrLoveMonkey wrote:

There is MUCH more to a unit than how many marines its weapons can kill. Do the same calculation using tau markerlights and see how many dead marines you have after firing 10-15 of those.

The warpflamers are high hit count, single damage, low range weapons, the butcher canon is a long range 2 damage high strength beast of a gun, locked onto a high toughness model with a great save and a ton of wounds. Dealing up to 6 unsaved wounds* to a HLD doesn't do a thing to impact its effectiveness while doing the same to a group of five rubrics wipes them out completely.

Mathhammer is great! It helps a lot, but just as logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end, proper mathhammer merely forms the basis for understanding balance in Warhammer.

*which it may heal

I would if I could!

Of course damage is not everything, but if we want to determine if a Leviathan is stronger than 13 rubrics we have three major points of measurement:

- Effectiveness versus vehicles
- Effectiveness versus infantry
- Durability

Both of these units have similar wounds: 13 vs 14.
Bother of these units have a ward save of 4+. Only 5+ versus shooting for the Dread.
Rubrics are easily capable of a 2+ save similar to the Dread especially since they can take cover far more easily.
Dread has a high toughness, but Rubrics are wounded less easily with the new table.
Rubrics cannot heal.

Rubrics are very clearly better at killing infantry.
The Leviathan is very clearly better at killing tanks.

The main point i'm driving at was in regards to panic about how "A bunch of Rubrics are the same PL, but clearly worse than the dread", which is patently untrue.

I did not play any 40k since they were released. Just got back for 8th. and xenos all look the same anyway.

FunJohn wrote:

They'll be looking at Primaris tomorrow. Didn't sound like a full faction-focus though.

I hope they tell us more about the role of the lieutenants. And what's the deal with the gravis armour.

FunJohn wrote:

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.

Space Marine, Necron, Imperial Agent, AdMech and the best of all the Primaris Space Marine.

They'll be looking at Primaris tomorrow. Didn't sound like a full faction-focus though.

We're not getting a Faction focus tomorrow, and the Primaris aren't a faction in of themselves. They'll probably just talk about the flying dudes, plasma dudes, and the characters a bit.

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

Spoiler:

 xttz wrote:

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.

Space Marine, Necron, Imperial Agent, AdMech and the best of all the Primaris Space Marine.

How can you forget this guy?

I did not play any 40k since they were released. Just got back for 8th. and xenos all look the same anyway.

*looks at avatar* Another indistinguishable space marine in a pallet swap lol. Guess it's all a matter of perspective.

This was meant to be funny and sarcastic. So people on the forum should not be getting upset, but they probably will anyways.

Well, there you have it, folks. Be sure to look up from our Warhammer Fest coverage on Saturday to read about the followers of the Four-armed Emperor.

So does that mean Genestealer Cults are next?

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

FunJohn wrote:

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.

Space Marine, Necron, Imperial Agent, AdMech and the best of all the Primaris Space Marine.

They'll be looking at Primaris tomorrow. Didn't sound like a full faction-focus though.

We're not getting a Faction focus tomorrow, and the Primaris aren't a faction in of themselves. They'll probably just talk about the flying dudes, plasma dudes, and the characters a bit.

Still could go a long way to showing us the future of Slightly Bigger Space Marines™.

I await the release of Slightly bigger than the Slightly Bigger Space Marines™ ten years from now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Robin5t wrote:

Well, there you have it, folks. Be sure to look up from our Warhammer Fest coverage on Saturday to read about the followers of the Four-armed Emperor.

So does that mean Genestealer Cults are next?

Indeed. Unless we have some other four-armed Emperor I haven't heard about.

As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

To sum up what I know about 8th compared to 7th I'll quote Weird Al: "Everything you know is wrong. Forget the words and sing along."

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:

Well, there you have it, folks. Be sure to look up from our Warhammer Fest coverage on Saturday to read about the followers of the Four-armed Emperor.

So does that mean Genestealer Cults are next?

Indeed. Unless we have some other four-armed Emperor I haven't heard about.

Well, the other 4 armed god is the keeper of secrets.

 Hollow wrote:
As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

All of those words are common descriptors that describe things that will always be in the game, no matter how much GW changes it. (Unless they remove units, and make every model its own unit) What the hell are you smoking?

Youn wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:

Well, there you have it, folks. Be sure to look up from our Warhammer Fest coverage on Saturday to read about the followers of the Four-armed Emperor.

So does that mean Genestealer Cults are next?

Indeed. Unless we have some other four-armed Emperor I haven't heard about.

Well, the other 4 armed god is the keeper of secrets.

Yeah, but no one in the fluff refers to them as any kind of Emperor.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

All of those words are common descriptors that describe things that will always be in the game, no matter how much GW changes it. (Unless they remove units, and make every model its own unit) What the hell are you smoking?

Incredibly strong skunk. My point is that people are desperately trying to place factions into tiers with each new piece of information. If this edition is truly balanced, then the concept of 'tiers' evaporates and hopefully the stigma that people have mentioned in regards to playing particular factions goes with it.

 Hollow wrote:
As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

Angry much? Tier, spam, no-brainer and MSU are words that are used in a vast amount of games. Those words aren't going away as there will always be optimized choices whether you're talking about a video game, miniature game, card ame or board game. I'd spend less time using the terms "monotonous and "meta-dorks" and more time researching how games actually function.

 Hollow wrote:
As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

We have a good amount of information to get an idea of how all this will work, but I agree. We still need stats and points. As to the descriptors you are talking about, those will always exist. Don't understand why you have such a beef with it. It describes the type of army someone is playing. If we were to get rid of those terms, what would you suggest?

 Hollow wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

All of those words are common descriptors that describe things that will always be in the game, no matter how much GW changes it. (Unless they remove units, and make every model its own unit) What the hell are you smoking?

Incredibly strong skunk. My point is that people are desperately trying to place factions into tiers with each new piece of information. If this edition is truly balanced, then the concept of 'tiers' evaporates and hopefully the stigma that people have mentioned in regards to playing particular factions goes with it.

I remember playing 40k when people didn't give a gak what "tier" armies were. The game seemed much more fun without those type of concepts. I wonder why people keep going back to them?

EDIT: I do remember being told that labels like WAAC and beardy shouldn't exist.. pretty funny the whole shoe on the other foot thing.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Youn wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:

Well, there you have it, folks. Be sure to look up from our Warhammer Fest coverage on Saturday to read about the followers of the Four-armed Emperor.

So does that mean Genestealer Cults are next?

Indeed. Unless we have some other four-armed Emperor I haven't heard about.

Well, the other 4 armed god is the keeper of secrets.

Yeah, but no one in the fluff refers to them as any kind of Emperor.

Nor are they Gods.

 Latro_ wrote:
I think the issue with the ork article is its heavily pointing out the obvious benefits from previous articles instead of showing new stuff.

There were quite a few gems for orks in there.
* You can stack buffs. Adding a FNP and KFF are extra layers overs a model.
* We learned how Mob rule works
* We learned how warbosses can keep units in the fight
* We learned how nobs can help keep units together.

Honestly, 120-150 boys with lots of supporting units sounds pretty scary.
Since you can use movement trays to move them, it's a lot easier to field.

 Hollow wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

All of those words are common descriptors that describe things that will always be in the game, no matter how much GW changes it. (Unless they remove units, and make every model its own unit) What the hell are you smoking?

Incredibly strong skunk. My point is that people are desperately trying to place factions into tiers with each new piece of information. If this edition is truly balanced, then the concept of 'tiers' evaporates and hopefully the stigma that people have mentioned in regards to playing particular factions goes with it.

It won't be. There is no chance in hell that GW (Remember who we're dealing with) will make a completely balanced game. Tiers will remain, the gaps will close. We'll be able to form complete tier pyramids within a day of the full rules releasing.

 Hollow wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
As others have mentioned, it's funny to see the monotonous meta-dorks twist and turn in a desperate attempt to fit 8th edition into their existing pigeon holes. As we don't have all the information yet nobody can say for sure... however; with the play-tested and newly costed simultaneous release of all units this edition, perhaps the tedious terms such as 'tier, spam, no-brainer, MSU, blobs etc' can be retired. I understand why the meta-dorks desperately cling to these monotonous descriptors, as it can give the illusion they actually know what they are talking about.

All of those words are common descriptors that describe things that will always be in the game, no matter how much GW changes it. (Unless they remove units, and make every model its own unit) What the hell are you smoking?

Incredibly strong skunk. My point is that people are desperately trying to place factions into tiers with each new piece of information. If this edition is truly balanced, then the concept of 'tiers' evaporates and hopefully the stigma that people have mentioned in regards to playing particular factions goes with it.

It's patently impossible to get something like this balanced unless you are playing chess or checkers where units on both sides are exactly the same. Look at a lot of popular video games like Overwatch. Balance is something that constantly happens. Regardless of how much playtesting they do, there will be units that are better and armies that are better. Luckily they will be doing yearly updates with the general's handbook which is better, but still far from perfect. This is the nature of any type of game design. Also, those stigmas won't go away. It's just how it is. You either accept it or you don't.

don't like that orks have so many bonus to move and charge faster. They are not eldat, it doens't fit the army. Would have like much better for them to have a rule a la hammer of wrath instead

 streetsamurai wrote:
don't like that orks have so many bonus to move and charge faster. They are not eldat, it doens't fit the army. Would have like much better for them to have a rule a la hammer of wrath instead

I'm thinking of it as adrenaline rushes. I expect they'll still have low movement values so their one time moving double in a phase may still only come out to a normal every turn movement for an eldar.