Red Corsair wrote:
OR the biggest one where you simply take a wierd boy and teleport a bubble of leadership 30 wherever you want it.

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
If you're worried about explosions, start punting your MANZ around with Weirdboyz.

I agree, this and nob bikers seem like the best lists especially if zhardsnark gives bikes additional bonuses.
I'm just not sold on trukk boys or slow moving hordes.
We still need to see the bigger picture with dread mobs and FW vehicles or squiggoths.

 Red Corsair wrote:


It's almost like we don't have the whole picture yet or something

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:
Nob warbikers are good now especially with big choppa change.
Truck boys took a hit with its small capacity and new mob rules large mob reliance.
Man missiles took a hit with trukks killing them on a 1 when it explodes.
People way to optomistic w these changes when one of our better lists last edition was already green tide which was already fearless, 5+ fnp on everyone and had the entire army move run and charge every turn.
And this list was still slow moving and cumbersome and was easily mowed down with 7th ed anti infantry weapons and 8th edition only seems to make those weapons much stronger.
Orks still lack mobility.
Orks don't have to worry about challenges but snipers will wreck the characters that improve orks.
I foresee nob bikers and manz in transports still being our best options and large blobs of boys are still to slow and truck boys still to vulnerable to morale and low durability.

LMAO, seriously think about a strategy before claiming things are lack luster. Your truck boyz have NUMEROUS ways around moral just from that tiny leak. A nearby warboss is one fix, another is having a bigger mob in a battle wagon to get mid field to confer its higher LD OR the biggest one where you simply take a wierd boy and teleport a bubble of leadership 30 wherever you want it.

Then theres is the part where you haven't seen 99% of the ork rules yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I think this edition is favouring multiple small hordes with strong shooting in close combat

I think this edition favors nothing and all things can be made viable, yet people from some reason just like every aspect of life, feel the need to fit things into specific boxes.

Justyn wrote:

And yet:

Q: So using power points you can equip whatever you want to your squads, how does that not stop imbalance?
A: That's right. The Power Level assumes you are taking a pretty souped up version of that unit. You should feel free to take anything you like on that unit if you are playing Power Levels.

gungo wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:
Nob warbikers are good now especially with big choppa change.
Truck boys took a hit with its small capacity and new mob rules large mob reliance.
Man missiles took a hit with trukks killing them on a 1 when it explodes.
People way to optomistic w these changes when one of our better lists last edition was already green tide which was already fearless, 5+ fnp on everyone and had the entire army move run and charge every turn.
And this list was still slow moving and cumbersome and was easily mowed down with 7th ed anti infantry weapons and 8th edition only seems to make those weapons much stronger.
Orks still lack mobility.
Orks don't have to worry about challenges but snipers will wreck the characters that improve orks.
I foresee nob bikers and manz in transports still being our best options and large blobs of boys are still to slow and truck boys still to vulnerable to morale and low durability.

LMAO, seriously think about a strategy before claiming things are lack luster. Your truck boyz have NUMEROUS ways around moral just from that tiny leak. A nearby warboss is one fix, another is having a bigger mob in a battle wagon to get mid field to confer its higher LD OR the biggest one where you simply take a wierd boy and teleport a bubble of leadership 30 wherever you want it.

Then theres is the part where you haven't seen 99% of the ork rules yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I think this edition is favouring multiple small hordes with strong shooting in close combat

I think this edition favors nothing and all things can be made viable, yet people from some reason just like every aspect of life, feel the need to fit things into specific boxes.

first units inside transports don't confer special rules unless this changes this edition... second how many trucks can you fit within 6in of a warboss. Third I already stated we don't have all the rules but last edition I was already playing a fearless blob of orks with 5+ fnp and waaaagh every turn that allows it to move run charge each turn with rerolls on run/charge and it was still to slow and susceptible to anti infantry. We don't know the full rules but what I'm telling you are still legit issues. Orks will obviously have some type of list that's usable bikes and manz with some reliable transport look decent as does woerdboys depending how he psychic phase turns out.

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
If you're worried about explosions, start punting your MANZ around with Weirdboyz.

I agree, this and nob bikers seem like the best lists especially if zhardsnark gives bikes additional bonuses.
I'm just not sold on trukk boys or slow moving hordes.
We still need to see the bigger picture with dread mobs and FW vehicles or squiggoths.

Again you fail to see the bonuses inherent simply by the core rules. Large mobz didn't work because you removed casualties from the front and because mob rule was terribler and unreliable. THEN when you made it, your claw was in a challenge and usually died and then you struck last. ALL the above changed. 3 or more massive mobs can easily benefit from character buffs and need not worry about losing said buffs by being killed out of range.

Swinging first when you charge

No more unwieldy weapons

remove casualties from the rear (hell or the front to deny charges to yourself)

These were already helping before this leak, now after you got

4 ways to mitigate battleshock:
1.warboss
2.Nobz
3.Nearby mob
4. your own unit size

Character buffs:
1.Waaagh isn't limited to once per battle or after turn 1
2.Mad doc can help ANY number of units in range
3. Player choice casualty removal means you always get the buffs until you don't want them
4. Wierdboy has the best psychic power we have seen yet that also happens to be the best redeployment ability

 lolman1c wrote:
Is it just me or does that Orc Faction Focus just sound like they are telling us 7th ed rules and acting like they are new? Literally, any changes are because of general rule changes, not faction changes. Again, I feel orks are left out...

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
If you're worried about explosions, start punting your MANZ around with Weirdboyz.

2.Mad doc can help ANY number of units in range

It's true. I can.

gungo wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
If you're worried about explosions, start punting your MANZ around with Weirdboyz.

I agree, this and nob bikers seem like the best lists especially if zhardsnark gives bikes additional bonuses.
I'm just not sold on trukk boys or slow moving hordes.
We still need to see the bigger picture with dread mobs and FW vehicles or squiggoths.

Again you fail to see the bonuses inherent simply by the core rules. Large mobz didn't work because you removed casualties from the front and because mob rule was terribler and unreliable. THEN when you made it, your claw was in a challenge and usually died and then you struck last. ALL the above changed. 3 or more massive mobs can easily benefit from character buffs and need not worry about losing said buffs by being killed out of range.

Swinging first when you charge

No more unwieldy weapons

remove casualties from the rear (hell or the front to deny charges to yourself)

These were already helping before this leak, now after you got

4 ways to mitigate battleshock:
1.warboss
2.Nobz
3.Nearby mob
4. your own unit size

Character buffs:
1.Waaagh isn't limited to once per battle or after turn 1
2.Mad doc can help ANY number of units in range
3. Player choice casualty removal means you always get the buffs until you don't want them
4. Wierdboy has the best psychic power we have seen yet that also happens to be the best redeployment ability

As I've said before when playing the greentide last ed
1) waagh was not limited once a turn
2) the entire army was already 5+ fnp
3) the entire mob was already fearless
4) issues with mobs dying from the front had no real problems with the amount of chaff units protecting klaws
5) challenges weren't much of a problem with the amount of redundancy with klaw nobs
And yet green tide was to slow moving and cumbersome and easily dealt with high anti infantry.

We don't have the entire picture but stop acting like every unit choice is going to be competitive and balanced that doesn't happen in AoS and it's not happening in 8th 40k.

 lolman1c wrote:
Is it just me or does that Orc Faction Focus just sound like they are telling us 7th ed rules and acting like they are new? Literally, any changes are because of general rule changes, not faction changes. Again, I feel orks are left out...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


It's true. I can.

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:
Nob warbikers are good now especially with big choppa change.
Truck boys took a hit with its small capacity and new mob rules large mob reliance.
Man missiles took a hit with trukks killing them on a 1 when it explodes.
People way to optomistic w these changes when one of our better lists last edition was already green tide which was already fearless, 5+ fnp on everyone and had the entire army move run and charge every turn.
And this list was still slow moving and cumbersome and was easily mowed down with 7th ed anti infantry weapons and 8th edition only seems to make those weapons much stronger.
Orks still lack mobility.
Orks don't have to worry about challenges but snipers will wreck the characters that improve orks.
I foresee nob bikers and manz in transports still being our best options and large blobs of boys are still to slow and truck boys still to vulnerable to morale and low durability.

LMAO, seriously think about a strategy before claiming things are lack luster. Your truck boyz have NUMEROUS ways around moral just from that tiny leak. A nearby warboss is one fix, another is having a bigger mob in a battle wagon to get mid field to confer its higher LD OR the biggest one where you simply take a wierd boy and teleport a bubble of leadership 30 wherever you want it.

Then theres is the part where you haven't seen 99% of the ork rules yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I think this edition is favouring multiple small hordes with strong shooting in close combat

I think this edition favors nothing and all things can be made viable, yet people from some reason just like every aspect of life, feel the need to fit things into specific boxes.

first units inside transports don't confer special rules unless this changes this edition... second how many trucks can you fit within 6in of a warboss. Third I already stated we don't have all the rules but last edition I was already playing a fearless blob of orks with 5+ fnp and waaaagh every turn that allows it to move run charge each turn with rerolls on run/charge and it was still to slow and susceptible to anti infantry. We don't know the full rules but what I'm telling you are still legit issues. Orks will obviously have some type of list that's usable bikes and manz with some reliable transport look decent as does woerdboys depending how he psychic phase turns out.

No they are not legit issues, you seem to have wanted to play a 7th edition formation in 8th with nothing but additional benefits. I hate to break it to you but every formation is gone and you can't pretend like those old perks were the standard. I am not going to play hypothetical games with your demands here either, I could tell you any number of ways to pack 10 trucks into range of a WB and none would matter in a vacuum that you get to recreate over and over.

I listed the 4 new options to fix LD above, along with the other perks. If you can't make your army work FAIRLY in the bigger picture with those then I'm afraid we won't see eye to eye.

gungo wrote:


As I've said before when playing the greentide last ed
1) waagh was not limited once a turn
2) the entire army was already 5+ fnp
3) the entire mob was already fearless
4) issues with mobs dying from the front had no real problems with the amount of chaff units protecting klaws
5) challenges weren't much of a problem with the amount of redundancy with klaw nobs
And yet green tide was to slow moving and cumbersome and easily dealt with high anti infantry.

We don't have the entire picture but stop acting like every unit choice is going to be competitive and balanced that doesn't happen in AoS and it's not happening in 8th 40k.

gungo wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

gungo wrote:
Nob warbikers are good now especially with big choppa change.
Truck boys took a hit with its small capacity and new mob rules large mob reliance.
Man missiles took a hit with trukks killing them on a 1 when it explodes.
People way to optomistic w these changes when one of our better lists last edition was already green tide which was already fearless, 5+ fnp on everyone and had the entire army move run and charge every turn.
And this list was still slow moving and cumbersome and was easily mowed down with 7th ed anti infantry weapons and 8th edition only seems to make those weapons much stronger.
Orks still lack mobility.
Orks don't have to worry about challenges but snipers will wreck the characters that improve orks.
I foresee nob bikers and manz in transports still being our best options and large blobs of boys are still to slow and truck boys still to vulnerable to morale and low durability.

LMAO, seriously think about a strategy before claiming things are lack luster. Your truck boyz have NUMEROUS ways around moral just from that tiny leak. A nearby warboss is one fix, another is having a bigger mob in a battle wagon to get mid field to confer its higher LD OR the biggest one where you simply take a wierd boy and teleport a bubble of leadership 30 wherever you want it.

Then theres is the part where you haven't seen 99% of the ork rules yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I think this edition is favouring multiple small hordes with strong shooting in close combat

I think this edition favors nothing and all things can be made viable, yet people from some reason just like every aspect of life, feel the need to fit things into specific boxes.

first units inside transports don't confer special rules unless this changes this edition... second how many trucks can you fit within 6in of a warboss. Third I already stated we don't have all the rules but last edition I was already playing a fearless blob of orks with 5+ fnp and waaaagh every turn that allows it to move run charge each turn with rerolls on run/charge and it was still to slow and susceptible to anti infantry. We don't know the full rules but what I'm telling you are still legit issues. Orks will obviously have some type of list that's usable bikes and manz with some reliable transport look decent as does woerdboys depending how he psychic phase turns out.

No they are not legit issues, you seem to have wanted to play a 7th edition formation in 8th with nothing but additional benefits. I hate to break it to you but every formation is gone and you can't pretend like those old perks were the standard. I am not going to play hypothetical games with your demands here either, I could tell you any number of ways to pack 10 trucks into range of a WB and none would matter in a vacuum that you get to recreate over and over.

I listed the 4 new options to fix LD above, along with the other perks. If you can't make your army work FAIRLY in the bigger picture with those then I'm afraid we won't see eye to eye.

wtf are you talking about I'm not asking to play the same formation I'm saying all the bs your crying about was already not an issue last edition in this specific formation and there were still problems that this preview doesn't address with orks. Namely large mobs of boys while optimal for morale are slow as dirt even with rerolls to charge and move run and charge each turn and characters in transports do not confer special rules, are seperate units that are easier to snipe and are just as slow.... making everything very slow moving.

 davou wrote:

gungo wrote:


As I've said before when playing the greentide last ed
1) waagh was not limited once a turn
2) the entire army was already 5+ fnp
3) the entire mob was already fearless
4) issues with mobs dying from the front had no real problems with the amount of chaff units protecting klaws
5) challenges weren't much of a problem with the amount of redundancy with klaw nobs
And yet green tide was to slow moving and cumbersome and easily dealt with high anti infantry.

We don't have the entire picture but stop acting like every unit choice is going to be competitive and balanced that doesn't happen in AoS and it's not happening in 8th 40k.

You act like greentide was the best way to play orks last edition. Even with ALL those buffs that you listed, it was still garbage; me and any other ork players in my area certainly tried it, but not more than once. It was a terrible gimmick and unless you were playing the relic you were going to lose every game (and on the relic it depended entirely on getting lucky with some run rolls).

We now have all the buffs you mentioned. Are allowed to use our saves, get to swing first, don't have to eat leadership effects, have bubble effects for buffs, ACTUAL unit synergy via stacking buffs. Are faster, get to swing with the full weight of numbers.... And you dont have to commit your entire collection to a single unit to make it happen.

so far the only thing I think will be hard, is keeping your turnkey pieces safe from snipers, since orks lack any kind of unit in the vein of honor guard, or hive guard.... But hell, even if the KFF and pain boy get poked out of the unit early oh, it seems like the rest of the table is fearsom as feth.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Justyn wrote:

And yet:

Q: So using power points you can equip whatever you want to your squads, how does that not stop imbalance?
A: That's right. The Power Level assumes you are taking a pretty souped up version of that unit. You should feel free to take anything you like on that unit if you are playing Power Levels.

Oh yea, how do you figure they did a power level for the dreadnought then? Did they take each gun and average the effect?

I think we know, which piece of information we can trust more.

But, let's play that game!

Versus Space Marines again 13 Rubrics with Warpflamers! 45.5 hits, 23 wounds, 15 dead Butcher Cannon 8 shots, 6.7 hits, 5.6 wounds, 2.8 dead Soulburner 4 shots, 3.3 dead Bombard (we'll say versus 15) 6 shots, 5 hits, 5 dead

Still think it's based around best equipment?

Missions
Q: That stratagem for discarding cards and new objectives is interesting as we have a house rule that lets us discard the card if it is completely impossible to complete with the starting armies e.g. Scout the skies when the opponent has no flyers or Destroying a building/fortification when there are none.
A: That's a very popular house rule in a number of gaming groups, Charles. But now, there is a stratagem for those folks who don't use that house rule as standard.

Q: This looks awesome!

Just a question, Warhammer 40,000-

It says: "This mission will be available as part of the free rules in the Warhammer 40,000 Battle Primer and, of course, in the new book itself. "

Am I reading into it too much, or will there be some rules that are not free. ie: Core vs Advanced?
A: Hey [REDACTED] - the core rules, as in, how you move, shoot fight and the basic mission will be free to download online.

Q: Keeping the same cards or do we need to buy new ones?
A: Hey [REDACTED] - well, the article says "The objective deck has been re-done from the ground up while keeping the feel of that type of game, with its constantly changing and updated orders."

That means the current cards are no longer compatible.

Q: Can I ask something pretty important. Are we still taking turns as per current 40k or the role off at the end of game turns like aos. May I point out if its the second of these im gonna cry... alot
A: Not sure we have made any mention of any roll off at the start of the turn in any of the articles yet..

Q: Unrelated question. Will the existence of primaris marines mean we won't be seeing any more new models for old marines?
A: We haven't got any news about releases that we haven't revealed yet, Mike. Keep your eyes on this page for all the latest news when we get it.

Q: Are the points for match play in the index books?
A: Yes indeed they are.

ORK FACTION FOCUS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
Q: You didn't answer the single most important thing all Ork's wanted to know!

DO RED ONEZ GO FASTA ???
A: OF COURSE DEY DO! BUT ONLY IF YOU BELIEVE 'ARD ENOUGH!

Q: My warboss highly approoves new thingies...
Warhammer 40,000 Will MEgaBosses be on 60mm bases like in AoS ?
A: No word on any new models right now... but watch this space for all da latest when we get it!

Q: Any confirmation on whether nobz bases will change in the new edition?
A: Not that we know of? Watch dis space for all da latest when we get it!

Q: So pumped for this!? Is it worth taking Ghaz now!?
A: He is so, so good!

 Crimson wrote:
Whilst I don't think the captain can really be salvaged without extensive repositioning, I think that lowering the sword arm and turning the head too look at different direction would be clear improvements.

Spoiler:

gungo wrote:
that's my point greentide or any large units of boys with similar buffs are still slow and cumbersome.

Truckboys are faster but are counter to large boy morale bonus and reliant on nobs that are only ok

or piling on top of the warboss who can't confer rules from inside a transport and is a slow moving solo unit who is prone to sniping.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Ork article was fine. Not very exciting. I was hoping that they'd show us the Flash Gitz data sheet or something.

What's the most interesting thing still to come? Space Marine focus I guess... I feel like we must be running out of things that they can drip-feed at this stage.