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 Crimson wrote:

Youn wrote:
They stated in the article on shooting that models armed with two one handed weapons may shoot both of them.

Right. So is any weapon which is specifically noted to be two-handed one-handed then?

think Youn made a mistake on this, one and two handed weapons from what i have read are not a thing

So how it is determined how many weapons you can shoot with then?

Youn wrote:
They stated in the article on shooting that models armed with two one handed weapons may shoot both of them. The example they used was Cypher as being extremely dangerous with his two pistols.

Basically, the new rules assume gunslinger is a thing for everyone.

Gunslinger was a thing for everyone, besides, what rule lets a storm surge shoot all his guns? What about a crisis suit? Answer is unknown as of yet, as now nothing has been mentioned restricting us from shooting everything, people are still in that old habit of applying previous editions.

Not calling you out specifically btw.

Youn wrote:
The unit arrives on turn 1.

Fires 18 shots of S 5 AP -1
Then gets to charge a unit.

Assuming the 18 shots hit 12 times, and wound 9 of those.
This likely means they have killed 4-5 marines

The charge is also likely to have killed another 5 marines by end of combat phase.

If they get gunned down at this point. The have very likely made their points back. If they are not dead by this phase then they can only be a positive points unit.

2.7 marines from the bolter shots. Less if they are in cover, which they probably should be. 0.5 more from the charge ability and their combat weapons are pretty poor so 0.8 for those.

So 4 in total - shooting and combat, which at 13 points per marine is 52. These guys cost 50 at least (educated guess). This also assumes they don't lose a guy to overwatch (which is unlikely) and they make that charge roll.

 keltikhoa wrote:
Assault Marines, or more specifically their jetpack, were bulky models correct? The distinct lack of bulky on the inceptors is interesting. Sideways Transport capacity buff?

Unlikely, probably a restriction on transport units wit something like "infantry units without the Terminator/Jump pack/Fly/*insert thing here* may embark on this vehicle". The flying transports may allow them but again that'll be keyword specific.

How far the basic space marine has fallen, now that the Movie Marines of Adeptus Restarties have arrived! T5 is a huge boost. I think it is nice for those who want to play space marines closer to the fluff, but I do wish they'd given them some kind of draw back - like they're arrogant and never fall back, or go berserk, or something.

 Crimson wrote:
So how it is determined how many weapons you can shoot with then?

From what we know if you have 5 meltaguns, a heavy bolter and a bolter you can fire all 7.

 nintura wrote:
If a captain is that scary, what does a chapter master look like?

Given that primaris seems to mean +1 attack and wound... About the same -1 toughness.

Unless primaris chapter masters are a thing right away, I suppose.

 Crimson wrote:
So how it is determined how many weapons you can shoot with then?

They said in the tau article that the battlesuits could shoot all their weapons as if it were a general rule.

If I had to guess it will be assumed that you get to attack with as many weapons as you have and they will just make it so it is hard to get more than 2-3 weapons. For close combat I bet you will have the option of splitting your attacks between weapons. So for example with the chainsword we saw that it gives an extra attack with its profile. So if a character has powerfist chainsword they can make all of their attacks with the powerfist, and then get 1 extra from the chainsword. I like it, much more elegant solution that chainswords/pistols giving your main weapon a bonus attack.

I would be interested in seeing how they do things like lightning claws or paired weapons. I think it would be cool to get a price cut and some advantage.......Not because I want to make a guy duel wielding thunderhammers or anything......

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
If a captain is that scary, what does a chapter master look like?

Given that primaris seems to mean +1 attack and wound... About the same -1 toughness.

Unless primaris chapter masters are a thing right away, I suppose.

It's not the Primaris giving them +1 Toughness.

It's the Gravis Armor.

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
If a captain is that scary, what does a chapter master look like?

Given that primaris seems to mean +1 attack and wound... About the same -1 toughness.

Unless primaris chapter masters are a thing right away, I suppose.

It's not the Primaris giving them +1 Toughness.

It's the Gravis Armor.

Yes.

And what armour type do you see regular chapter masters sporting?

I think we have to compare these guys to Land Speeders with 2 heavy bolters.

I guess a speeder is faster and more durable but worse in melee and more expensive.

I will all depend on the points if they are OP or not.

changemod wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
If a captain is that scary, what does a chapter master look like?

Given that primaris seems to mean +1 attack and wound... About the same -1 toughness.

Unless primaris chapter masters are a thing right away, I suppose.

It's not the Primaris giving them +1 Toughness.

It's the Gravis Armor.

Yes.

And what armour type do you see regular chapter masters sporting?

Whatever the hell they want? They're Chapter Masters after all.


But again, be specific when making statements like this. Someone unaware of the Gravis Armor granting +1 Toughness might assume that you've seen something they haven't and Primaris characters have bonus Toughness or something.

The rule for how many weapons you can shoot is very simple:
A unit or model may shoot with all of his weapons.

source: crisis can shoot 3, stormsurge can shoot 10, vehicle can shoot everything and now Inceptor can also shoot both.

disclaimer: salt required

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

 nintura wrote:
If a captain is that scary, what does a chapter master look like?

Given that primaris seems to mean +1 attack and wound... About the same -1 toughness.

Unless primaris chapter masters are a thing right away, I suppose.

It's not the Primaris giving them +1 Toughness.

It's the Gravis Armor.

Yes.

And what armour type do you see regular chapter masters sporting?

Whatever the hell they want? They're Chapter Masters after all.


But again, be specific when making statements like this. Someone unaware of the Gravis Armor granting +1 Toughness might assume that you've seen something they haven't and Primaris characters have bonus Toughness or something.

I've found over the years the real risk is random attacks of pedantry, rather than actual misunderstandings which are rarer and easier to clear up.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Youn wrote:
The unit arrives on turn 1.

Fires 18 shots of S 5 AP -1
Then gets to charge a unit.

Assuming the 18 shots hit 12 times, and wound 9 of those.
This likely means they have killed 4-5 marines

The charge is also likely to have killed another 5 marines by end of combat phase.

If they get gunned down at this point. The have very likely made their points back. If they are not dead by this phase then they can only be a positive points unit.

2.7 marines from the bolter shots. Less if they are in cover, which they probably should be. 0.5 more from the charge ability and their combat weapons are pretty poor so 0.8 for those.

So 4 in total - shooting and combat, which at 13 points per marine is 52. These guys cost 50 at least (educated guess).

Which idiot will decide not to remove casualties from closest to the inceptors though? Only way these guys m,ake an assault after they arrive is if they split fire 5 guns into something else and hope the one gun doesn't extend their assault range.

These guys are VERY odd. I wanted to like them as characters hitters, but at PL8 with no options these guys are going to be CRAZY expensive to trade, because for that roll they aren't surviving. As someone else pointed out centurions can already dual wield heavy bolters AND have missile braziers with a better save unless they really took a hit from the nerf bat. If they are priced anywhere near a centurion then I am not sure I'd take them personally.

Maybe they will serve a better roll at taking out objective campers in your opponents backfield out of LOS and simply scoring points and being annoying. I could see them being a pain to remove with limited backfield options as opposed to using these guys in the thick of it where lets be honest, they will get dusted off the table. Will be interesting to see what cost assault marines are by comparison.

Looking at the combi weapon rule. It basically says you can fire either or both. Which assumes you are holding both weapons.

We also know Twin linked lets you fire double the number of shots.

The Shooting article say you can fire both hand-held pistols in melee range.

They have purposely modeled these guys holding 2 weapons. RAI would suggest they can fire both of them in the same shooting phase. Otherwise, they are pointless models.

I guess something I didn't consider was that models can just use all their weapons, no restrictions before. Which means marines get 3 bolt rounds at 12" due to bolter and bolt pistol.

So things keep looking up and up for marines! Except for, you know, being outmatched by their superior replacement :V

changemod wrote:

I've found over the years the real risk is random attacks of pedantry, rather than actual misunderstandings which are rarer and easier to clear up.

Maybe, but I'm not the one who stated:

changemod wrote:Given that primaris seems to mean +1 attack and wound... About the same -1 toughness.

Call me pedantic all you want; you made a post which can be misread exceedingly easily by someone just scanning the thread.

 kestral wrote:
How far the basic space marine has fallen, now that the Movie Marines of Adeptus Restarties have arrived! T5 is a huge boost. I think it is nice for those who want to play space marines closer to the fluff, but I do wish they'd given them some kind of draw back - like they're arrogant and never fall back, or go berserk, or something.

T5 isn't as great as it was in 7th to be honest actually. Las guns still wound them on a 5+. Sure they survive better against bolt guns but anything with an armor piercing value will mulch them and since they pay for a second wound it won't be inefficient to use such weapons. Think back to the DE disintegrator canon, s5 ap-3 D2! It's safe to assume star canons, ion canons, plasma culverns etc etc will all fill a similar roll. Personally I would still rather field the t4 dudes and just take more bodies. In fact I'll almost always take similar skilled numbers over high wound count any day.

At least they can't use those assault bolters in CC like pistols.

The Interceptors can fire 6 shots per model after landing right next to you?
Holy gak!

They have to cost a crap load of points per model.

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

I've found over the years the real risk is random attacks of pedantry, rather than actual misunderstandings which are rarer and easier to clear up.

Maybe, but I'm not the one who stated:

changemod wrote:Given that primaris seems to mean +1 attack and wound... About the same -1 toughness.

Call me pedantic all you want; you made a post which can be misread exceedingly easily by someone just scanning the thread.

Just doing you the courtesy of informing you I'm losing interest in this pointless discussion before a moderator need step in.

 dan2026 wrote:
The Interceptors can fire 6 shots per model after landing right next to you?
Holy gak!

They have to cost a crap load of points per model.

Power level 8 for a unit of 2 Inceptors and a Sergeant.

Apparently Power Level is set for the highest possible cost of a unit, assuming it has all the upgrades rolled in.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The Interceptors can fire 6 shots per model after landing right next to you?
Holy gak!

They have to cost a crap load of points per model.

Power level 8 for a unit of 2 Inceptors and a Sergeant.

Apparently Power Level is set for the highest possible cost of a unit, assuming it has all the upgrades rolled in.

I'm thinking at least 50 points per model. Maybe more.

 keltikhoa wrote:
Assault Marines, or more specifically their jetpack, were bulky models correct? The distinct lack of bulky on the inceptors is interesting. Sideways Transport capacity buff?

In 5th-7th editions, what transport was allowed to carry assault marines with jump packs?


Honest question.

 Asmodas wrote:
Wow, they sure gave those Inceptors some pretty mean rules. I guess folks may have to get over their dislike of them! Twin heavy bolters on a jump pack unit, yikes!!

They are better than heavy bolters. They are assault weapons, which means that they don't infer a -1 to hit!

Assuming that artificer armour is still a thing, I'd probably go with that than gravis, especially for a character who's supposed to move along with the troops to give them a bonus.

 kronk wrote:

 keltikhoa wrote:
Assault Marines, or more specifically their jetpack, were bulky models correct? The distinct lack of bulky on the inceptors is interesting. Sideways Transport capacity buff?

In 5th-7th editions, what transport was allowed to carry assault marines with jump packs?


Honest question.

Corvus Blackstar, Storm Raven

But another thing to consider is that we are all acting as if you have to assault what you shoot. With everyone having split fire I honestly dont see that restriction still being in.

So you land, light up a unit and then charge something else.

 kronk wrote:

 keltikhoa wrote:
Assault Marines, or more specifically their jetpack, were bulky models correct? The distinct lack of bulky on the inceptors is interesting. Sideways Transport capacity buff?

In 5th-7th editions, what transport was allowed to carry assault marines with jump packs?


Honest question.

Storm Ravens. Necron Night Scythes could carry Triarch Praetorians who had the equivalent of a jump pack.