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 Latro_ wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So how it is determined how many weapons you can shoot with then?

From what we know if you have 5 meltaguns, a heavy bolter and a bolter you can fire all 7.

Don't roll a one.

NSFW: Language.

So should we expect a flood of information on 8th this weekend ? And next week as retailers get their demo rule books and indices?

 kronk wrote:

 keltikhoa wrote:
Assault Marines, or more specifically their jetpack, were bulky models correct? The distinct lack of bulky on the inceptors is interesting. Sideways Transport capacity buff?

In 5th-7th editions, what transport was allowed to carry assault marines with jump packs?


Honest question.

Stormravens, Storm Eagles, Thunderhawks, Stormbird, Caestus Assault Ram, Corvus Blackstar, Stormwolf (Or was it the Stormfang?). Necron Night Scythes were also able to carry JI. It was generally just flyers but notably the Stomraven was the first to specifically allow it.

Thanks.

So Rhinos *might* have something like: Can only transport infantry units but not jump infantry, terminator armor, etc.

I wonder if Masters/Captains/Lts will have a set profile and Primaris/Gravis/Artificer/Terminator will all be options. Would be an excellent way to allow full customization for leaders, as they have stated current Marines can receive Primaris Gene-Seed.

Nah, that sounds like too much rules. I'm betting they can carry any infantry model.

 Crimson wrote:
Assuming that artificer armour is still a thing, I'd probably go with that than gravis, especially for a character who's supposed to move along with the troops to give them a bonus.

I'd save points and take power armor. No point in dumping pts into a solo guy, anything they send that can target him directly will presumably be able to kill him easily. You get LOS onto nearby units apparently as well. If I had to guess, super killy special character capts will be a thing but mostly you will still see the unit with the strongest army wide buffs. Probably still a psycher. The 6" bubble this guy had was decent, but by comparison I liked all the ork characters buff more.

 kronk wrote:
Thanks.

So Rhinos *might* have something like: Can only transport infantry units but not jump infantry, terminator armor, etc.

Irrelevant comment incoming, because I doubt it will change back to this, but rhino's could carry terminators back in 2nd Ed.

Still not sure how this works?

Hand to hand:

I note he has both Boltstorm Gauntlet and Power sword - do you choose which weapon you attack with or allocate your attacks between them?

 dan2026 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The Interceptors can fire 6 shots per model after landing right next to you?
Holy gak!

They have to cost a crap load of points per model.

Power level 8 for a unit of 2 Inceptors and a Sergeant.

Apparently Power Level is set for the highest possible cost of a unit, assuming it has all the upgrades rolled in.

I'm thinking at least 50 points per model. Maybe more.

Maybe?

We've seen a few power levels for units that currently have points and it looks like 1 Power Rating equates to anywhere between 15 to 25 points.

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:
The rule for how many weapons you can shoot is very simple:
A unit or model may shoot with all of his weapons.

source: crisis can shoot 3, stormsurge can shoot 10, vehicle can shoot everything and now Inceptor can also shoot both.

disclaimer: salt required

In AOS all models shoot/attack with all equipped weapons. Large models can have four-five different types of weapons that scale down with damage taken.

 kestral wrote:
Nah, that sounds like too much rules. I'm betting they can carry any infantry model.

Considering that "Mark X Gravis Armor" is a keyword, I don't think it's as big of a deal as you seem to think.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The Interceptors can fire 6 shots per model after landing right next to you?
Holy gak!

They have to cost a crap load of points per model.

Power level 8 for a unit of 2 Inceptors and a Sergeant.

Apparently Power Level is set for the highest possible cost of a unit, assuming it has all the upgrades rolled in.

Oh my gahd people need to stop quoting the facebook page.

Power Levels are a great way to very quickly get a roughly balanced game organised and started, but they do not account for the various wargear options and upgrades a unit can have. For this level of granularity, you have points.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/12/new-warhammer-40000-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/

Wow you are still going on about that? LoL

Daedalus81 wrote:

Oh my gahd people need to stop quoting the facebook page.

Power Levels are a great way to very quickly get a roughly balanced game organised and started, but they do not account for the various wargear options and upgrades a unit can have. For this level of granularity, you have points.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/12/new-warhammer-40000-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/

People keep going back and forth on this, as if the two are inconsistent. Maybe they're not? What if the way to reconcile it is that when they say that it does not account for wargear and upgrades, they're trying to say that it does not fluctuate based upon the number of wargear and upgrades you select, while the FB thing is saying "oh don't worry, we pegged the PL assuming you'd have take some ambiguous number of upgrades for that unit".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, otherwise, I cannot say if I give Games Workshop more or less stock than I'd give Games Workshop on a product that Games Workshop makes. Thus I must find some way to make both statements true.

People keep going back and forth on this, as if the two are inconsistent. Maybe they're not? What if the way to reconcile it is that when they say that it does not account for wargear and upgrades, they're trying to say that it does not fluctuate based upon the number of wargear and upgrades you select, while the FB thing is saying "oh don't worry, we pegged the PL assuming you'd have take some ambiguous number of upgrades for that unit".

Pretty much exactly.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
So should we expect a flood of information on 8th this weekend ? And next week as retailers get their demo rule books and indices?

Yeah, I assume that there's going to be tons of demo games and someone till sneak the rules pamphlet into the bathroom to upload to War of Sigmar or something.

Yeah, I assume that there's going to be tons of demo games and someone till sneak the rules pamphlet into the bathroom to upload to War of Sigmar or something.

They need to sneak the damn Index's into the bathroom and give the rest of us the Low Down.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The Interceptors can fire 6 shots per model after landing right next to you?
Holy gak!

They have to cost a crap load of points per model.

Power level 8 for a unit of 2 Inceptors and a Sergeant.

Apparently Power Level is set for the highest possible cost of a unit, assuming it has all the upgrades rolled in.

Oh my gahd people need to stop quoting the facebook page.

Power Levels are a great way to very quickly get a roughly balanced game organised and started, but they do not account for the various wargear options and upgrades a unit can have. For this level of granularity, you have points.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/12/new-warhammer-40000-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/

So we should ignore all the Q&A info? No thanks, I think I'll use some logic and reasoning applied to both since when you do you realize that the two sources are not actually in conflict at all. Your just reading into it as if there is.

Justyn wrote:

People keep going back and forth on this, as if the two are inconsistent. Maybe they're not? What if the way to reconcile it is that when they say that it does not account for wargear and upgrades, they're trying to say that it does not fluctuate based upon the number of wargear and upgrades you select, while the FB thing is saying "oh don't worry, we pegged the PL assuming you'd have take some ambiguous number of upgrades for that unit".

Pretty much exactly.

No, not exactly.

The same logic can be flipped on the Facebook guys to mean that they wanted you to know you can take anything and it doesn't change the assigned power level.

So, again, I ask - to which none have had a reply - which upgrade did they based the dreadnought power level upon? And the Rubrics?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:


So we should ignore all the Q&A info? No thanks, I think I'll use some logic and reasoning applied to both since when you do you realize that the two sources are not actually in conflict at all. Your just reading into it as if there is.

Ok, then answer my question above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And let's apply a little Occam's Razor here folks.

Did they do the math for the base unit or did they calculate every possible combination and come up with an average?

So they keep saying there's no more USR's, but then the marines all have ATSKNF. Is that just the exception that proves the rule, or is there something I'm missing?

skarsol wrote:
So they keep saying there's no more USR's, but then the marines all have ATSKNF. Is that just the exception that proves the rule, or is there something I'm missing?

If it is a rule that pretty much every model in the army has, then it is printed once in the codex/index to avoid pointless repetition. There are no USRs in the BRB, AFAIK.

We have already seen some clues as to how power levels work when compared to points. A Tac squad of 5 models is 5 power levels, and a 5 man intercessor squad is 6power levels. The space marines are 13 ppm, and the intercessors are ??? ppm, but we can compare the two and come to some conclusions. The intercessors have a fixed loadout, and are more like marines + 0.5 rather than marines +1 (1 more wound, so 100% more durable, but putting out the same number of shots with a marginally better range and rend value). A 5 man tac squad can, on the other hand, take a special weapon and a combi on the serge, plus maybe a melta bomb or some other melee weapon. That value will be variable, but on the upper edge we are probably talking about 30-35 points of wargear (and once you make it a 10 man squad you can take a heavy weapon too, which we know can cost up to 27 points in the case of a MM). Thus we are looking at 65 point squad with the potential to take about 35 points in upgrades = 100 points. This is why I arrive at the conclusion that the intercessors are probably 120 points (and the starweaver at 100 points too, for that matter). The 20 points per power level translates into the inceptors being around 160 points - about where others have guessed they would come in.

Edited to show correct PL for intercessors.

Intercessors are actually PL 6.

Daedalus81 wrote:


Did they do the math for the base unit or did they calculate every possible combination and come up with an average?

Absent an answer from GW, it's impossible to know.

Personally, I would have started with the most expensive valid set of options, halved that cost, and added it to the base unit calculation. Still not perfect, but probably more accurate than just base cost.

skarsol wrote:
So they keep saying there's no more USR's, but then the marines all have ATSKNF. Is that just the exception that proves the rule, or is there something I'm missing?

ATSKNF is an army rule, not a USR. It's a small, but important distinction.

Anyhow, could someone who's more math savvy than me do some comparing of gravis and artificer armours?

Moving on past Power levels, I am wondering if Assault Weapons will gain a gunslinger rule to balance them agaianst the buffs other weapon types have now.

That or bespoke rules let you shoot all weapons on certain models (keywords like Gravis, Stormsurge, Crisis).

 Crimson wrote:
Intercessors are actually PL 6.

Oops! Sorry about that, but I think the 20 points per power level bit is still probably about where we will come out when all is said an done. That seems to indicate Intercessors would be around 120 points, not 100.

Heh, When I came up originally saying the incessors were 105 pts. People said that I was just making up numbers. Which is true based off an educated guess.

Marines are 13 points.
Primaris marines are +1 wound and +1 attack. Which I bet puts them at 20 points per model.

A jump pack on a character in 7th was +15 points. So, my guess was that they were 20 pts + 15 points = 35 points per model.

3 x 35pts = 105 pts. Assuming you discount the jump pack to make it Jump pack + Assault Bolter = +15 pts.

This leave the cost of Gravis armor on them. So.. yeah, I revise my cost to 40pts per model. Or 120pts for the squad.