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So a Space Marine Chapter can lose their Homeworld system to a rival Space Marine Chapter. Space Wolves lost the Fenris system to the Thousand Sons. However a system can not fall due to a Xenos race who have such numbers they blot out the stars and the warp, plus have a long established history of reducing planets, systems, and galaxies to barren wastes.

The Fenris system was not lost to the Thousand sons. Midguardia was destroyed. Other planets were damaged but are recovering. Its essentially the same story. Massive damage but no long term loss.

With the supreme command detachment I could just run all 10 Ultramarines Captains and some vets/Honor Guard to get in the way.

Justyn wrote:

So a Space Marine Chapter can lose their Homeworld system to a rival Space Marine Chapter. Space Wolves lost the Fenris system to the Thousand Sons. However a system can not fall due to a Xenos race who have such numbers they blot out the stars and the warp, plus have a long established history of reducing planets, systems, and galaxies to barren wastes.

The Fenris system was not lost to the Thousand sons. Midguardia was destroyed. Other planets were damaged but are recovering. Its essentially the same story. Massive damage but no long term loss.

I'm pretty sure that the Fenris planet was rendered uninhabitable at the end of the story, with the population having to be 'taken' by the Inquisition due to daemonic infestation. The remains of the Space Wolves had to flee as they were called into help fight against the 13th Black Crusade.

 stonehorse wrote:
As a Tyranid player I would like to see the Tyranids be able to win a major battle at least once, the galaxy is big enough to afford the Tyranids a major victory without destroying the background... which is oddly enough something that Chaos are allowed to do, they can have a major victory that alters the background and that is acceptable..

Baby steps, baby steps. Remember, Chaos may get to wreck the place up this time, but this is the first major fluff shakeup since the end of Rogue Trader. Chaos have been the whipping boy for failure for most of the game's life. Have we so soon forgotten the thrown at Abaddon? How many Black Crusades did he botch? How many failed retries on that 13th one? This victory for Chaos has been a long time coming. Chaos were becoming like a Dr. Who villain, made toothless after so many defeats. They needed all this to be a credible threat again.

And besides, Nids got to change the setting and won a major battle in recent memory. Hell one of the biggest changes since 2nd it was. They're the reason I can't have a kick squat army in the new edition after all. Chaos wish they had it that good. Chaos has been trying to discontinue the marine line for 30 years and still haven't succeeded.

Who's going to WarhammerFest today to get us more pictures?

Difficult Terrain isn't a thing anymore then.

Also, it seems flyers can be assaulted now (though an assault restriction could be included in their individual unit rules, of course).

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
As a Tyranid player I would like to see the Tyranids be able to win a major battle at least once, the galaxy is big enough to afford the Tyranids a major victory without destroying the background... which is oddly enough something that Chaos are allowed to do, they can have a major victory that alters the background and that is acceptable..

Baby steps, baby steps. Remember, Chaos may get to wreck the place up this time, but this is the first major fluff shakeup since the end of Rogue Trader. Chaos have been the whipping boy for failure for most of the game's life. Have we so soon forgotten the thrown at Abaddon? How many Black Crusades did he botch? How many failed retries on that 13th one? This victory for Chaos has been a long time coming. Chaos were becoming like a Dr. Who villain, made toothless after so many defeats. They needed all this to be a credible threat again.

And besides, Nids got to change the setting and won a major battle in recent memory. Hell one of the biggest changes since 2nd it was. They're the reason I can't have a kick squat army in the new edition after all. Chaos wish they had it that good. Chaos has been trying to discontinue the marine line for 30 years and still haven't succeeded.

Haha, good point.

I still laugh that Tyranids were the design studios reason for doing away with Squats, when deep down we all know it was because at the time they had no idea how to redesign them going from 2nd to 3rd edition. I think the story was they got sick of being asked when Squats were coming back, so they just said Tyranids ate them all, and since then it has entered the communities cannon.

Just noticed in the leaked rules I can't see if there is a penalty for taking a force that has negative command point, one of the formations is comprised of a single choice with no restrictions, but has a -1 Command Point. Seems a bit odd.

ShaneHM wrote:
Difficult Terrain isn't a thing anymore then.

As a general rule in the basic book? Looks that way.

But considering GW have been dropping hints at terrain rules beyond what we have in the basic rules? I wouldn't discount it being in there entirely just yet.

Remember the talk of keyworded terrain that provides benefits to only some models, the special additional terrain rules for CoD stuff? That's all outside the basic rules, and my guess is they kept it out to make the basic game run in a simple manner. But we know from GW's own articles that what we're seeing in that small terrain blurb in the intro rules isn't the whole story either.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
The alternative (inflicting hits on the model) could lead to weapons magically reconstructing out of thin air because the model passed the save, or models running around the battlefield sans weapon.

That's a false dilemma if ever I saw one.

And you're talking about fluff, not rules.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
The alternative (inflicting hits on the model) could lead to weapons magically reconstructing out of thin air because the model passed the save, or models running around the battlefield sans weapon.

That's a false dilemma if ever I saw one.

And you're talking about fluff, not rules.

I guess it could have been resolved that the model suffers a Mortal Wound. That way models with multiple wounds could have survived where as single wound models will simply evaporate. Only issue is that it could mean that wounds would have been floating around on different models.

The new way may seem more punishing, but it is elegant and stops a whole boat load of complications from popping up.

 stonehorse wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
The alternative (inflicting hits on the model) could lead to weapons magically reconstructing out of thin air because the model passed the save, or models running around the battlefield sans weapon.

That's a false dilemma if ever I saw one.

And you're talking about fluff, not rules.

I guess it could have been resolved that the model suffers a Mortal Wound. That way models with multiple wounds could have survived where as single wound models will simply evaporate. Only issue is that it could mean that wounds would have been floating around on different models.

The new way may seem more punishing, but it is elegant and stops a whole boat load of complications from popping up.

In 2nd edition, the Mk1 plasma weapons were the ones that had the risk of overheating, but not all overheats and leaks were equally serious. There was another roll determining severity of the hit the model had to save against. The more minor leaks did not destroy the weapon.

Aux detachment is interesting, if you care not for cmd points then unbound is like.... the norm now.

Interesting how no one has really raged against that, it was like 'pffff' when unbound was a thing in the last edition... years of broken formations have obv made folks warm to the idea of meh use what ye like!

The transports thing is interesting with those formations... i can just do an army of 5 chaos lords in rhinos if they are going up to 6 wounds and able to tool them up then they are not that different from 5 normal dudes!

Rules to me actually look pretty solid, i was sitting there in bed reading em and thinking how they'd play out in a game compared to now and its like.... its streamlined but in my head it would still play out the same all the basic elements are there.

Kinda looks like its confirmed a battle cannon is d6 shots and you roll to hit with each one.

Also grenades don't look like they do diddly squat in combat now. We have seems the krak grenades profile and nothing in the core rules mentions using them in combat... perhaps there might be something in the advanced rules...


Link to keep an eye on today:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/WarhammerFest?src=hash
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/27/warhammer-fest-live-blog/

Tyran wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

But from the army comp rules leeked today it sounds like you can buy anything as a transport for anyone as long as the faction keywords match.

Thus why now I wonder if doing a imperial keyword faction let's you really mix and match units and transports. They are all the imperial faction keyword.

You can buy transports for tanks based on the leaked rules, but obviously you cannot put tanks into a transport (Manta notwithstanding).

For example you could make a list that is pure Leman Russ squadrons and buy a drop pod for each Leman Russ squadron, but I really doubt you can put those squadrons in drop pods.

Or you could buy Rhinos for Vendettas.

Hell, you could buy a Chimera for an Imperial Knight.

Why can't I put tanks in a drop pod? We keep hearing how "Realism doesn't matter, because there are SPACE ELVES". Is 12 Leman Russes coming out of a drop pod really any worse than MIND BULLETS?

I think they probably have this locked down using Key words, so we won't have to worry about drop Tanks. That said, there isn't any "bulky" key word, which probably means any infantry can ride in any same army transport and takes up one spot. So 10 Adeptus Restarties can tetris into a Rhino most likely. While people have pointed out that there are Armor key words, you would have cover every possibility with them on the data sheet (can carry X of Y) and that sounds unlikely. 12 Ogryn in a Chimera?

I think it is good that they let you pick the casualties in a transport explosion - after all you get to do that in shooting, and it would be odd to have mechanics suddenly change when casualties are inflicted another way. That shows a pleasing level of internal consistency. I am less pleased that we will have the "Chimera disappears, 10 Ogryn left standing in it's footprint" effect. But then, I'm one of those sad, sad "Realism" guys.

The assault grenades thing was nonsense anyway. A rubbish abstraction in my view. If it's gone I won't miss it, and as it affected Initiative order and there's no I stat now can only imagine it is gone.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The assault grenades thing was nonsense anyway. A rubbish abstraction in my view. If it's gone I won't miss it, and as it affected Initiative order and there's no I stat now can only imagine it is gone.

I agree. Grenades having a special attack against people in cover instead is one of the better rules they've come up with, though that is in the special scenario rules.

I suppose now with those changes to Knights in close-combat keeping those things tied down with a Solitaire is no longer an option?

Okay finally caught up on all the leaks.

I am disapointed that units still don't move the charge distance if they don't roll the required distance. I had it in my head that would be the case (unless I read it wrong).

Also very interesting that assault weapons can still be shot after advancing, very cool! I expect to see quite a few dedicated assault units being able charge after advancing as well.

Hopefully we see an article soon with some Death Guard stats from starter box!

 stonehorse wrote:

I still laugh that Tyranids were the design studios reason for doing away with Squats, when deep down we all know it was because at the time they had no idea how to redesign them going from 2nd to 3rd edition. I think the story was they got sick of being asked when Squats were coming back, so they just said Tyranids ate them all, and since then it has entered the communities cannon.

If I'm not mistaken, the Squats are from the core worlds- as in near the core of the galaxy. Last time I looked the 'nids hadn't ever got that far...

The Baal fluff looks bad because the deux ex machina seems extremely, extremely forced and predictable. That, along with the “5 Chapter Masters died, so it's a big deal, but we are not telling you which”…

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The Baal fluff looks bad because the deux ex machina seems extremely, extremely forced and predictable. That, along with the “5 Chapter Masters died, so it's a big deal, but we are not telling you which”…

I am sure it will be expanded upon in further fluff books.

Zustiur wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

I still laugh that Tyranids were the design studios reason for doing away with Squats, when deep down we all know it was because at the time they had no idea how to redesign them going from 2nd to 3rd edition. I think the story was they got sick of being asked when Squats were coming back, so they just said Tyranids ate them all, and since then it has entered the communities cannon.

If I'm not mistaken, the Squats are from the core worlds- as in near the core of the galaxy. Last time I looked the 'nids hadn't ever got that far...

Which makes it all the funnier. Tyranids advanced into the core of the galaxy, ate all the Squats, then went back to the eastern fringe of the galaxy as if nothing had happened. It is because GW want nothing more to do with Squats, so just tried to brush them under the carpet.

I think the official reasoning is that they came in from under the galactic plane (Because space is 3D, you know) and hit the homeworlds that way

Personally I think Baal should have been saved by the arrival of long-lost technologically advanced Abhumans with a grudge against Tyranids....would have been poetic vengeance, and wouldnt necessarily require their re-introduction as a full playable race

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The Baal fluff looks bad because the deux ex machina seems extremely, extremely forced and predictable. That, along with the “5 Chapter Masters died, so it's a big deal, but we are not telling you which”…

It's not Deus ex Mechanica - it's the guys going round breaking sieges and saving desperate situations.

udpated with all the profiles:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/27/warhammer-fest-live-blog/

 Latro_ wrote:
udpated with all the profiles:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/27/warhammer-fest-live-blog/

Spoiler:

That's not all the profiles, still no Lieutenants or the Ancient... :(

The profiles look awesome. The Bloat Drone is much more tanky than I thought with T7 W10!

Is that the first time we see the new Plasmagun? I read yesterday people where discussing if it would get two modes aswell
I saw the Slain keyword with the transports as well, so that just means remove the model, no armor save?

My Scions and Guard are gonna love the new non-overheating Plasma Guns, or overcharge them for a suicide volley. Oh yusss.

That Lord of Contagion will be very similar to Typhus I think, minus the psyker!

Those stats are looking great on Death Guard, after a gak morning at hospital, great to have this news flowing in!!

The Plague Marine data sheet has weapons that aren't in the starter, so looks like the other data sheets are the full ones, not just starter set only ones.