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 Robin5t wrote:
I feel like Abaddon isn't beating the Swarmlord, based on the information we have on the latter so far.

To be honest, that feels strangely appropriate.

The Swarmlord is an Apex Hive Tyrant. I feel that something that is effectively a Monster in itself shouldn't be beaten down by even a guy waddling around in Terminator armour. I feel like you should be beating down Monsters with your own Monsters or assaulting with a number of units.

Let's not forget the Swarmlord CAN be singled out (more than 10 wounds) while Abaddon is somewhat safer with nearby units (that he is in turn buffing as well).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Chaos Land Raiders have the <Mark of Chaos> Keyword.

True, but there could be an exemption in the Mark rules that stops the bonus from applying to Vehicles - though they still count in terms of Faction for army selection.

Btw gakload of spoilers from an italian forum, will post translations soon

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Btw gakload of spoilers from an italian forum, will post translations soon

Link please

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
I feel like Abaddon isn't beating the Swarmlord, based on the information we have on the latter so far.

To be honest, that feels strangely appropriate.

The Swarmlord is an Apex Hive Tyrant. I feel that something that is effectively a Monster in itself shouldn't be beaten down by even a guy waddling around in Terminator armour. I feel like you should be beating down Monsters with your own Monsters or assaulting with a number of units.

Let's not forget the Swarmlord CAN be singled out (more than 10 wounds) while Abaddon is somewhat safer with nearby units (that he is in turn buffing as well).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Chaos Land Raiders have the <Mark of Chaos> Keyword.

True, but there could be an exemption in the Mark rules that stops the bonus from applying to Vehicles - though they still count in terms of Faction for army selection.

Oh, I definitely agree. It just stuck out to me as they struck me as being more evenly matched in previous editions.

Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

Really would like to see Swarmlord's full datasheet. I suspect he'd come out on top eventually but Swarmlord vs Abaddon, barring some interactions we're not aware, is not something that would be over in a single round of combat...on average.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?

Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.

2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?

Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?

Actually because you can split attacks between weapons you could roll your extra attacks with the sword then make the regular attacks with the talon.

In fact it specifically says you need to roll Drachnyen every time he fights, not every time he uses the sword.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?

Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.

2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?

Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?

They were always kinda bad but you can't seriously claim a random profile is better than being restricted from firing whatever you want twice in a row? Deep strike safer? Hardly a buff when the only reason we have to deep strike them now is that their deffgun onlt gets half range for some reason. It's not like they get meltas.

Also anyone notice that Abigail's range profile for the Talon doesn't suck anymore? It does D2 damage on average and can get 4 shots hahaha!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?

Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.

I agree to some extent. I can see why you wouldn't like the random effect but at worst you are probably carrying an autocannon. At best you are carrying a two shot lascannon that does 3 damage instead of D6. On average its probably a two shot krak missile. All with lower range but 28"+d6 (if you need it) is hardly tiny.

It will depend on how cheap you can tool up Havocs. If heavy weapons are 10 points each then they are probably better. If they are 15-20 then its going to be quite marginal. Higher and Oblits are obviously better.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?

Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.

2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?

Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?

They were always kinda bad but you can't seriously claim a random profile is better than being restricted from firing whatever you want twice in a row? Deep strike safer? Hardly a buff when the only reason we have to deep strike them now is that their deffgun onlt gets half range for some reason. It's not like they get meltas.

The profile is reliable enough. A D3 range is just enough to know what the unit should be targeting. Besides, which profiles were you using when it came to them?
You had the Assault Cannon, Lascannon, Multi-Melta, and TL Plasma Gun. Everything else was too short range to actually be useful (The Flamers and TL Melta) or unreliable (Plasma Cannon). So basically you got 3 shots of any of those weapons max.

This is a much better trade-off.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

Thanks - nay thing Sisters or Inquisiton related - very much appreciated

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?

Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.

2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?

Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?

They were always kinda bad but you can't seriously claim a random profile is better than being restricted from firing whatever you want twice in a row? Deep strike safer? Hardly a buff when the only reason we have to deep strike them now is that their deffgun onlt gets half range for some reason. It's not like they get meltas.

Well... GW wanted to give both and Obliterators and Havocs a role where they overlapped before. Since Obliterators no longer have any decent anti-infantry weapons you have to support them now with CSM. Every unit will have a role to play as they keep telling us.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

So Nid MCs finally get proper toughness. That alone will make some of their heavy-hitters way better than they are now...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The profile is reliable enough. A D3 range is just enough to know what the unit should be targeting.

Well since you get to pick target after rolling you know exactly what to shoot for if you want to maximize effect. Issue comes more when you need specific target dead but don't know how good your guns will be before that.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

So Mephiston isn't getting a Primaris model? Darn. His statline already goes well enough with them but I'd like a bigger model.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

I'd love to Know what Magnus does if you can find it, especially considering he's 2/3rd his price now, at 415pts.

A mix of leaks from ATT (Tau part) and the Italian forum mentioned:

Eldars:
Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0

Inquisition and Grey Knights:
Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)

Necrons:
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.

Space Marines:
Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds

Tau:
Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12".
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors

tneva82 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The profile is reliable enough. A D3 range is just enough to know what the unit should be targeting.

Well since you get to pick target after rolling you know exactly what to shoot for if you want to maximize effect. Issue comes more when you need specific target dead but don't know how good your guns will be before that.

Which was a problem for the previous iteration anyway? You want a target dead but don't have the appropriate one to use?

Seriously this is a good change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aenar wrote:
A mix of leaks from ATT (Tau part) and the Italian forum mentioned:

Eldars:
Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0

Inquisition and Grey Knights:
Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)

Necrons:
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 Dmg
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.

Space Marines:
Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds

Tau:
Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12".
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors

We definitely need more on Necrons, and if this is even correct. A rend of -2 on the basic weapon seems pretty powerful.

However I can live with that change to RP. They can still keep coming back until wiped out.

Aenar wrote:

Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen

Yes! Finally!
(Now we only need rules for Primaris Deatwatch an all is well...)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
[
We definitely need more on Necrons, and if this is even correct. A rend of -2 on the basic weapon seems pretty powerful.

However I can live with that change to RP. They can still keep coming back until wiped out.

There's a bit more on Orks, Tyranids (i.e. Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb did), Eldars, Mechanicus. I'll try to translate them here asap.

BTW, could people please provide links to the original sources of this info?

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So Mephiston isn't getting a Primaris model? Darn. His statline already goes well enough with them but I'd like a bigger model.

These index books only cover existing models. He might well get a new model in the future, with new rules.

@Aenar, Thanks dude, you are doing the Emperors work.

Aenar wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
[
We definitely need more on Necrons, and if this is even correct. A rend of -2 on the basic weapon seems pretty powerful.

However I can live with that change to RP. They can still keep coming back until wiped out.

There's a bit more on Orks, Tyranids (i.e. Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb did), Eldars, Mechanicus. I'll try to translate them here asap.

Tyranids first please Thank you very much for doing this

BTW has this source posted any kind of photo evidence they have the books?

 Crimson wrote:
BTW, could people please provide links to the original sources of this info?

Google "gw italian forum" and you'll find what you're looking for

Aenar wrote:
A mix of leaks from ATT (Tau part) and the Italian forum mentioned:

Eldars:
Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0

Inquisition and Grey Knights:
Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)

Necrons:
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.

Space Marines:
Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds

Tau:
Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12".
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors

By the emperor thank you! Need more necron leaks as this sounds great!

I'd bet the necron ap is based on rolling 6s to hit or wound.

Oh cool, RP is back to how it used to be, instead of being another type of FNP. Supposedly, anyway.

 xttz wrote:

Tyranids first please Thank you very much for doing this

BTW has this source posted any kind of photo evidence they have the books?

Nope, we are kinda trusting him. Take these rumours with a bit of salt, I guess that in the following hours someone will provide some pics.

Anyway:
Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 barebone Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them) OR re-add 10 barebone Termagaunt models to an existing unit.
Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2.