Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Darkseid wrote:
I'm very surprised by the inconsistencies of the plasma weapons: Some cause a mortal wound, some slay the bearer outright. Some resolve hits before the bearer dies, some don't. I wonder if this is the final, proofread version.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NamelessBard wrote:
Do people not realize that everything is getting rebalanced points cost wise?

Calling something dead or overpowered is extremely short sighted.

You seem to be new here. People around these parts, have drawn such conclusions on much less information before.

I think the differences seem to be for vehicle mounted plasma. As losing a Leman Russ to a single roll of a 1 would be a tad unfair.

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Has any slaanesh related things been spoiled yet like daemons, noise marines ?

- Noise Marines
- If killed in melee don't remove them, and at the end of the phase they can attack with melee or shooting weapons (even if engaged) before removing them.
-
- Blastmaster 48" Heavyd3 S8 Ap-2 damage d3 ignore cover
- Or Assault d6 S4 Ap-1 damage 1
- Doomsiren assault d3 S5 Ap-2 damage 1 ignore cover
- Other sonic weapon Assault3 24" S4 ignore cover.

Not too bad, really would like to know what their mark does and if lucius is actually worth taking.

I am slightly sad that the Doomsiren is Assault D6 like the other former template weapons. But if the points aren't terrible and the Chaos Lord can take it again is fine. I'll be happy to just use my Sonic Blasters again.

It is weird that the doom siren is only d3 and not d6 like other template weapons, but I suppose it is a sacrifice worth making in exchange for actual good sonic blasters.

Are Noise/slaanesh marines +1 movement over other marines ?

Nothing besides the weapons and the one rule have been leaked yet...sadly. The other three gods got their icons released, but not Slaanesh. Pretty much nothing for Daemons either. Although, I was able to make out the 3 Slaaneshi daemon power names: Cacophonic Choir, Symphony of Pain, and Hysterical Frenzy. Which is odd because those were CSM Slaaneshi power's; so who know what they do now.

MoD_Legion wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I have tons of Tau. Their points feel correct now. Tears are delicious.

Broadsides were decent, but so OP that they needed a 3.5x points increase? Don't think so .

Did you miss the part where they're T5 6W, have double the amount of shots (Seriously... a missileside puts out 16 shots not counting drones), and are now mobile (with just -1BS, or Target Locks)?

ref: shadow in the warp

eh i don't think it'll be a huge deal except for GK and demons. single models ignore it.

(edit, sorry a few replies had come in)

MoD_Legion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's not what you said before though...you basically said that Stealth Suits were just there to take the Ghostkeel's benefits.

No I said they use the ghostkeel benefits to JSJ at around 18" shooting stuff, which they now wont be able to do due not have a 2+ cover save nor the ability to hits stuff in the rear.

Well personally as an Imperial Guard player I'm extremely worried about only being able to hit stealth suits on 5s and ghostkeels on 6s, with what amounts to a pretty good save still while in cover. Remember blast isn't a thing anymore, my Basilisks, which used to be able to be ordered to ignore cover, would wipe out a squad of stealth suits with every direct hit, now I'm going to have to roll d6 shots, and even then I'll be hitting on 5s/6s? That's like what, one hit if I'm lucky, which still has to wound and they still get a save? I'm a bit worried that guard are going to be stuck in the basement tier again, but willing to wait for the book/leaks to see for sure.

Either way those stealth suits are still super resilient.

Also does anyone know if the tau codex has been reposted? It's taken down now and I can't find it elsewhere.

EDIT: Wait, I just found them...MoD_Legion, you understand stealth suits now have a 2+ armor save while in cover right? Right? You get that right?

FunJohn wrote:

changemod wrote:
Two things then:

Flyers count as destroyed when they leave the board, the sun shark still has to move straight after one pivot of 90 degrees max, and it's minimum move has been bumped to 20 inches.

I see a lot less people taking flyers if that's the norm.

Also, what do you think the new standard points level to play at will be, given people will want to use their model collections in similar amounts as before? I'm thinking 3000.

The movement rules mentions flyers, but not the 90 degrees turn thing of 7th, so the speculation goes that flyers can now pivot as normal models, as-well as being assaulted.

I referenced the sun shark rules because the sun shark specifically mentions a 90 degree pivot then needing to move 20 inches straight forwards.

That is gonna be insanely tricky to keep from just zooming off the board and dying.

Grot Orderly on Facebook has Tau Codex. Yep I'm pretty interested what happens with IG too.

No leeks on the Eldar - they are the big one to see if the rebalancing has worked I think?

 gigasnail wrote:
ref: shadow in the warp

eh i don't think it'll be a huge deal except for GK and demons. single models ignore it.

(edit, sorry a few replies had come in)

Yeah it does seem somewhat underwhelming...hoping there is something more to it.
Unless its cumulative...that would make it more effective

So Chapter Master Shrike, any word on him and the Raven Guard?

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Has any slaanesh related things been spoiled yet like daemons, noise marines ?

- Noise Marines
- If killed in melee don't remove them, and at the end of the phase they can attack with melee or shooting weapons (even if engaged) before removing them.
-
- Blastmaster 48" Heavyd3 S8 Ap-2 damage d3 ignore cover
- Or Assault d6 S4 Ap-1 damage 1
- Doomsiren assault d3 S5 Ap-2 damage 1 ignore cover
- Other sonic weapon Assault3 24" S4 ignore cover.

Not too bad, really would like to know what their mark does and if lucius is actually worth taking.

I am slightly sad that the Doomsiren is Assault D6 like the other former template weapons. But if the points aren't terrible and the Chaos Lord can take it again is fine. I'll be happy to just use my Sonic Blasters again.

It is weird that the doom siren is only d3 and not d6 like other template weapons, but I suppose it is a sacrifice worth making in exchange for actual good sonic blasters.

Are Noise/slaanesh marines +1 movement over other marines ?

Nothing besides the weapons and the one rule have been leaked yet...sadly. The other three gods got their icons released, but not Slaanesh. Pretty much nothing for Daemons either. Although, I was able to make out the 3 Slaaneshi daemon power names: Cacophonic Choir, Symphony of Pain, and Hysterical Frenzy. Which is odd because those were CSM Slaaneshi power's; so who know what they do now.

That kind of sucks, that they didn't reveal the slaanesh icon as well. perhaps there is just 1 psychic discipline for each god now across daemons and chaos marines ?

 Mr Morden wrote:
No leeks on the Eldar - they are the big one to see if the rebalancing has worked I think?

I'd argue that the 'Nids are the better test, especially with what we've seen of the T'au. Especially since those 2 factions are in the same book.

Aside from the rumors page linked, there hasn't been any new info on Sisters that I've seen? Disappointing, but expected I guess. Looks like a bit of a mixed bag for them.

 Darkseid wrote:
I'm very surprised by the inconsistencies of the plasma weapons: Some cause a mortal wound, some slay the bearer outright. Some resolve hits before the bearer dies, some don't. I wonder if this is the final, proofread version.

Odds are the (Twin) Heavy Plasma Cannon is a vehicle only weapon. Removing a vehicle outright on a 1 would be a bit extreme...

All the ones that say "after resolving all attacks" are only for plasma weapons with multiple shots, because the other shot(s) may have hit. Single shot weapons don't need that stipulation because they only have one shot.

I'm kinda surprised there are no real Chaos Daemon leaks yet. I would think someone would at least be curious about what the Greater Daemons can do now.

 Mr Morden wrote:
No leeks on the Eldar - they are the big one to see if the rebalancing has worked I think?

I didn't know Eldar had onions?

 Sersi wrote:
I'm kinda surprised there are no real Chaos Daemon leaks yet. I would think someone would at least be curious about what the Greater Daemons can do now.

I'm very, very curious. I just built 30 screamers and am very concerned about them, also just made a Be'Lakor and was concerned he wasn't listed on the GW website as a character in 40k anymore.

Here's hoping we get more.

Anything on Deathwatch yet?

 Melissia wrote:
Aside from the rumors page linked, there hasn't been any new info on Sisters that I've seen? Disappointing, but expected I guess. Looks like a bit of a mixed bag for them.

Im hoping the repentia rumors arent true, as I just happened to get a bunch off ebay for cheap. The penitent engine stuff doesn't look too bad though

 Fluxxxx wrote:
Man, 40" move on the coldstar...brutal
Here's hoping for a couple cheeky Tyranid leaks.

This is what I have compiled so far.

From this thread:

Spoiler:

Tyranids:
Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb (melta is 5)
Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10
fleshborer Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them)
OR re-add fleshborer Termagaunt models to an existing unit

>Carnifex
>67 points
>M7" WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 3+
>It doesn't degrade
>if charge does mortal wound on a 4+
>Crushing claws are Sx2 AP-3 damage 3
>Monstrous Scything Talons S: User AP-3 damage 3
>Bonemace S8 Ap-1 d3 damage.
>If with 2 weapons +1 attacks
>2 Scything talons reroll 1 to hit.

Haruspex

S7 (degrades) T8 W13
If it kills a model it can do an extra attack and heal 1 wound.
Every wound he takes does a mortal wound on the enemy on a 6 (I suppose it's acid blood)
If killed roll a dice, on a 6 it does 3 mortal wound on an enemy unit within 3"
Digging claws Sx2 AP-3 damage d6


Venomthrope
-1 to be hit for infantry.

Lictor
WS2+ S6 W4 A3 5+
+2 armour save in cover,
-1 to be hit
can infiltrate at 9" and can reroll charge the turn it shows up

Had a guy in a fb group who had read the index answering some questions before, this is what I got from him (english was sort of poor so not everything was very clear) :

Spoiler:

-------
Gargoyles move 12
Shrikes move 10
Broodlord HQ
Mucolid spore FA
Genestealers 12 points
Naked tyrant is 143 points
Naked Tervigon is 217
Devourers with Brainleech are 18" S6 Assualt 3
Boneswords AP -2 +1 attack if you've got a pair
Powers:
1. Catalyst basically 5+ FnP
2. -1 to hit and LD on enemy unit
3. Move and fire heavy/advance and fire with assualt with no modifiers, advance and still charge
Mawloc deploy more than 1" from enemy,roll D6 for all enemies within 6, 1 nothing, 2-3 1mortal wound, 4-5 D3 mortal wounds, 6 6 mortal wounds
Shadow in the warp psykers within 8 get -1 LD, within 12 of HT/Swarmlord

What's the source on the Carnifex stats? That sounds AMAZING.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
No leeks on the Eldar - they are the big one to see if the rebalancing has worked I think?

I didn't know Eldar had onions?

Well, they do make a lot of people cry.

 luke1705 wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
matched play carrying over the psychic power rule of 1. so much for being able to have reliable access to catalyst.

I've read it over about three times and I'm just hoping that it's something that tournaments ignore....or that the points costs for psykers is much lower than it was. Picking the power is great. Everyone being able to cast is great. It appears that having more than 3 psykers in any army is not great.

If I were to guess armies that tend to be psyker heavy will have ways to keep the Rule of One from crippling them. The Tzeentch book from AoS has a lot of extra spells to help keep Tzeentch wizards from running out of different spells to cast. I would guess that in 40k armies that tend to use a lot of psykers will either get loads of spells to pick from and/or certain exceptions to the Rule of One.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Aside from the rumors page linked, there hasn't been any new info on Sisters that I've seen? Disappointing, but expected I guess. Looks like a bit of a mixed bag for them.

Im hoping the repentia rumors arent true, as I just happened to get a bunch off ebay for cheap. The penitent engine stuff doesn't look too bad though

Yeah, so am I. Nerfing their offense is kinda lame. Offense was literally all they had going for them!

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

 Fluxxxx wrote:
Man, 40" move on the coldstar...brutal
Here's hoping for a couple cheeky Tyranid leaks.

This is what I have compiled so far.

From this thread:

Spoiler:

Tyranids:
Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb (melta is 5)
Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10
fleshborer Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them)
OR re-add fleshborer Termagaunt models to an existing unit

>Carnifex
>67 points
>M7" WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 3+
>It doesn't degrade
>if charge does mortal wound on a 4+
>Crushing claws are Sx2 AP-3 damage 3
>Monstrous Scything Talons S: User AP-3 damage 3
>Bonemace S8 Ap-1 d3 damage.
>If with 2 weapons +1 attacks
>2 Scything talons reroll 1 to hit.

Haruspex

S7 (degrades) T8 W13
If it kills a model it can do an extra attack and heal 1 wound.
Every wound he takes does a mortal wound on the enemy on a 6 (I suppose it's acid blood)
If killed roll a dice, on a 6 it does 3 mortal wound on an enemy unit within 3"
Digging claws Sx2 AP-3 damage d6


Venomthrope
-1 to be hit for infantry.

Lictor
WS2+ S6 W4 A3 5+
+2 armour save in cover,
-1 to be hit
can infiltrate at 9" and can reroll charge the turn it shows up

Had a guy in a fb group who had read the index answering some questions before, this is what I got from him (english was sort of poor so not everything was very clear) :

Spoiler:

-------
Gargoyles move 12
Shrikes move 10
Broodlord HQ
Mucolid spore FA
Genestealers 12 points
Naked tyrant is 143 points
Naked Tervigon is 217
Devourers with Brainleech are 18" S6 Assualt 3
Boneswords AP -2 +1 attack if you've got a pair
Powers:
1. Catalyst basically 5+ FnP
2. -1 to hit and LD on enemy unit
3. Move and fire heavy/advance and fire with assualt with no modifiers, advance and still charge
Mawloc deploy more than 1" from enemy,roll D6 for all enemies within 6, 1 nothing, 2-3 1mortal wound, 4-5 D3 mortal wounds, 6 6 mortal wounds
Shadow in the warp psykers within 8 get -1 LD, within 12 of HT/Swarmlord

What's the source on the Carnifex stats? That sounds AMAZING.

Some dude translated it from an Italian source IIRC.

All I know is....I'll be making a LOT of 9" charge rolls, hopefully with fleet. Mawlocs seem just as good as before, lictors are as they should be now, and carnifexes sound positively terrifying. How many can I fit in a tyrannocyte again? I also wonder if genestealers will need to make use of the Trygon tunnel or if they still have infiltrate, which it appears functions in an identical way to deep strike.

Also loving the idea of GSC allies right now. Brood lord brings extra psychic fun and genestealers

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
I'm kinda surprised there are no real Chaos Daemon leaks yet. I would think someone would at least be curious about what the Greater Daemons can do now.

I'm very, very curious. I just built 30 screamers and am very concerned about them, also just made a Be'Lakor and was concerned he wasn't listed on the GW website as a character in 40k anymore.

Here's hoping we get more.

Honestly, I'm a little worried. The last time we got rules it change the entire character of the army. On the upside going by the CSM Daemon Prince we'll get a 15 pt price break on a winged one. I'll be a shame if Blood crushers don't have a "crushing charge" rule like the Primaris Interceptors. Our elites and fast attack need the most boosting.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
ss armies that tend to be psyker heavy will have ways to keep the Rule of One from crippling them. The Tzeentch book from AoS has a lot of extra spells to help keep Tzeentch wizards from running out of different spells to cast. I would guess that in 40k armies that tend to use a lot of psykers will either get loads of spells to pick from and/or certain exceptions to the Rule of One.

This may in fact be why we've not seen Daemons, Eldar or 'Nids properly yet, them being the 3 heaviest Psyker factions (I don't count Grey Knights as I expect they'll work the same way as 1k Sons)

I think what people aren't realizing with the Tau stuff is that the increased point cost is generally due to increased durability, which actually doesn't kill the mobile suit game style but increases the back-and-forth of playing with and against it.

Now, youll be able to get to and charge a unit of crisis suits, but with T5 W3 and a 3+ save that still gets a 5+ vs previously AP3 weapons, you're not going to kill them nearly as easily. Morale is also way less punishing for the multiwound units - 5 crisis suits that took just one casualty had almost a 50% chance to get instagibbed in 7th, now you need to take 2 or more to even start to worry about morale.

What this means is that there's going to be a lot more back and forth, getting charged surviving and falling back to shoot again with the heavier suits. Broadsides you will need to protect but their durability has tripled and you can plop them in cover for a 1+ save. It seems to me "Skirmish/shortrange tau" "Glass cannon gunline tau" and "Durable IG style gunline tau" are all viable options now...which is sweet.

Also with the flyers remember they removed the #1 thing making flyers unusable/ignorable in 7th: Unless I missed it, there are no more firing arcs for weapons.

Okay I think OP is up to date, except for Tau leaks.

If I missed anything, or didn't credit you for something you brought in to the thread, let me know via PM!

Thanks to everyone who has been messaging me, been a busy few hours!

the_scotsman wrote:
I think what people aren't realizing with the Tau stuff is that the increased point cost is generally due to increased durability, which actually doesn't kill the mobile suit game style but increases the back-and-forth of playing with and against it.

Now, youll be able to get to and charge a unit of crisis suits, but with T5 W3 and a 3+ save that still gets a 5+ vs previously AP3 weapons, you're not going to kill them nearly as easily. Morale is also way less punishing for the multiwound units - 5 crisis suits that took just one casualty had almost a 50% chance to get instagibbed in 7th, now you need to take 2 or more to even start to worry about morale.

What this means is that there's going to be a lot more back and forth, getting charged surviving and falling back to shoot again with the heavier suits. Broadsides you will need to protect but their durability has tripled and you can plop them in cover for a 1+ save. It seems to me "Skirmish/shortrange tau" "Glass cannon gunline tau" and "Durable IG style gunline tau" are all viable options now...which is sweet.

Also with the flyers remember they removed the #1 thing making flyers unusable/ignorable in 7th: Unless I missed it, there are no more firing arcs for weapons.

Well, bear in mind that multi-wound weaponry partially mitigates that.

I feel like their statement that games are shorter now has a lot to do with armies in general being smaller now for the same points value, which is technically true bus also kinda cheating.

The new rules might be less convoluted than 7th ended up being, but they seem at a much more convoluted starting point than the 3rd-7th framework ever was.

64 points lets you add 8 wounds with a +4 invulnerable to any (and multiple) T'au unit. Thats... kinda good.