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Am I reading things wrong?

Firstly a storm bolter is EXACTLY the same as a twin linked bolter? Where's the flavour in that?

Also, why were they bigging up chainswords giving an extra attack if bloody combat knives on tacticals do exactly the same thing? Chainswords should have got -1 ap, it's a bit stupid that they didn't in my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necronartum wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
I'm very surprised by the inconsistencies of the plasma weapons: Some cause a mortal wound, some slay the bearer outright. Some resolve hits before the bearer dies, some don't. I wonder if this is the final, proofread version.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NamelessBard wrote:
Do people not realize that everything is getting rebalanced points cost wise?

Calling something dead or overpowered is extremely short sighted.

You seem to be new here. People around these parts, have drawn such conclusions on much less information before.

I think the differences seem to be for vehicle mounted plasma. As losing a Leman Russ to a single roll of a 1 would be a tad unfair.

The mortal wounds are for vehicle plasma. However, you can bloody lose Mephiston with a to hit of 1... You aren't ever overcharging that pistol. I think a fairer option would be to cause a mortal wound and no longer be able to fire the weapon for the game for infantry models. It's a bit weird that you can lose a primaris marine on a 1 and a normal 1W marine, and undoubtably a single guardsmen once the rules are out. Or as in the case above, a special named character.

 JohnU wrote:
64 points lets you add 8 wounds with a +4 invulnerable to any (and multiple) T'au unit. Thats... kinda good.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh I still don't see shield drones being very useful. Marker or gun both actually do something other than be a floating pie plate whilst waiting to be ablative wounds.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Am I reading things wrong?

Firstly a storm bolter is EXACTLY the same as a twin linked bolter? Where's the flavour in that?

Also, why were they bigging up chainswords giving an extra attack if bloody combat knives on tacticals do exactly the same thing? Chainswords should have got -1 ap, it's a bit stupid that they didn't in my opinion.

As someone pointed out earlier, people have modelled combat knives and chainswords on tactical marines for pretty much the same purpose. To then buff chainswords whilst not doing something similar to combat knives would be an unfair boost to people with the same models but who had added slightly different components for personal tastes.

I also just noticed that it seems like there's a maximum of two drones per unit, not two drones per model like it used to be for many units.

Broadsides for example can have up to three models, which used to allow them to have six missile drones, but now they can only have two per unit.

 BroodSpawn wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Am I reading things wrong?

Firstly a storm bolter is EXACTLY the same as a twin linked bolter? Where's the flavour in that?

Also, why were they bigging up chainswords giving an extra attack if bloody combat knives on tacticals do exactly the same thing? Chainswords should have got -1 ap, it's a bit stupid that they didn't in my opinion.

As someone pointed out earlier, people have modelled combat knives and chainswords on tactical marines for pretty much the same purpose. To then buff chainswords whilst not doing something similar to combat knives would be an unfair boost to people with the same models but who had added slightly different components for personal tastes.

Where are you seeing that combat knives grant an extra attack?

 BroodSpawn wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Am I reading things wrong?

Firstly a storm bolter is EXACTLY the same as a twin linked bolter? Where's the flavour in that?

Also, why were they bigging up chainswords giving an extra attack if bloody combat knives on tacticals do exactly the same thing? Chainswords should have got -1 ap, it's a bit stupid that they didn't in my opinion.

As someone pointed out earlier, people have modelled combat knives and chainswords on tactical marines for pretty much the same purpose. To then buff chainswords whilst not doing something similar to combat knives would be an unfair boost to people with the same models but who had added slightly different components for personal tastes.

I don't buy that excuse. Sergeants got chainswords, tac marines got combat knifes in the rules. Whilst chainswords were just CCW's they were still differentiated in the models equipment stat line. I'm thinking more in line of assault marines anyway, they could have warranted a boost in combat over tac marines other than getting the +1 A for a pistol and chainsword.

 Rippy wrote:
Okay I think OP is up to date, except for Tau leaks.

If I missed anything, or didn't credit you for something you brought in to the thread, let me know via PM!

Thanks to everyone who has been messaging me, been a busy few hours!

Rippy - Awesome job. Thank you.

Interesting bits from leaks, not sure if mentioned yet:

"Predator Autocannon" has it's own profile - 2D3 shots.

Storm Bolter is Rapid Fire 24, so 4 shots at half range.

Assault Cannon is now Heavy 6. Nice.

Whirlwind Castellan S6 AP0 Heavy 2D6 ouuuuuch

What is a Land Raider Excelsior?

"Imperial Space Marine" Elite choice, 60 points. I think that's the collectible guy. Hah!

I just played two games of 8th with the leaked core rules, Only War mission, and starter box dataslates. Then the second mission we each added a Knight. Both were very fun and very close: the second came down to one 4+ armor save!

everything is so much simpler except close combat positioning, which is probably simpler than 7th but still complicated.

I hope we get a FAQ day 1 for some edge cases. like, can't shoot at character unless it's the closest visible target. But maybe they intended to say closest eligable target. one visible unit in close combat prevented me from shooting at a character who was the closest eligable target.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Am I reading things wrong?

Firstly a storm bolter is EXACTLY the same as a twin linked bolter? Where's the flavour in that?

Also, why were they bigging up chainswords giving an extra attack if bloody combat knives on tacticals do exactly the same thing? Chainswords should have got -1 ap, it's a bit stupid that they didn't in my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necronartum wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
I'm very surprised by the inconsistencies of the plasma weapons: Some cause a mortal wound, some slay the bearer outright. Some resolve hits before the bearer dies, some don't. I wonder if this is the final, proofread version.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NamelessBard wrote:
Do people not realize that everything is getting rebalanced points cost wise?

Calling something dead or overpowered is extremely short sighted.

You seem to be new here. People around these parts, have drawn such conclusions on much less information before.

I think the differences seem to be for vehicle mounted plasma. As losing a Leman Russ to a single roll of a 1 would be a tad unfair.

The mortal wounds are for vehicle plasma. However, you can bloody lose Mephiston with a to hit of 1... You aren't ever overcharging that pistol. I think a fairer option would be to cause a mortal wound and no longer be able to fire the weapon for the game for infantry models. It's a bit weird that you can lose a primaris marine on a 1 and a normal 1W marine, and undoubtably a single guardsmen once the rules are out. Or as in the case above, a special named character.

Looking at all the units We've seen so far, I don't see Combat knives on anyone's profile. Granted none of them are tactical marines, but the Combat Knife may be just something Scouts have now, with the knives marines have being the default "Close Combat Weapon' we've seen in the assault rules.

the_scotsman wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Am I reading things wrong?

Firstly a storm bolter is EXACTLY the same as a twin linked bolter? Where's the flavour in that?

Also, why were they bigging up chainswords giving an extra attack if bloody combat knives on tacticals do exactly the same thing? Chainswords should have got -1 ap, it's a bit stupid that they didn't in my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necronartum wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
I'm very surprised by the inconsistencies of the plasma weapons: Some cause a mortal wound, some slay the bearer outright. Some resolve hits before the bearer dies, some don't. I wonder if this is the final, proofread version.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NamelessBard wrote:
Do people not realize that everything is getting rebalanced points cost wise?

Calling something dead or overpowered is extremely short sighted.

You seem to be new here. People around these parts, have drawn such conclusions on much less information before.

I think the differences seem to be for vehicle mounted plasma. As losing a Leman Russ to a single roll of a 1 would be a tad unfair.

The mortal wounds are for vehicle plasma. However, you can bloody lose Mephiston with a to hit of 1... You aren't ever overcharging that pistol. I think a fairer option would be to cause a mortal wound and no longer be able to fire the weapon for the game for infantry models. It's a bit weird that you can lose a primaris marine on a 1 and a normal 1W marine, and undoubtably a single guardsmen once the rules are out. Or as in the case above, a special named character.

Looking at all the units We've seen so far, I don't see Combat knives on anyone's profile. Granted none of them are tactical marines, but the Combat Knife may be just something Scouts have now, with the knives marines have being the default "Close Combat Weapon' we've seen in the assault rules.

You may be right about that, I hadn't considered scouts.

gungo wrote:
Considering Frankie was one of the top tau players in the country and playtested the new faction a lot. I'd say they are probably balanced.

Which was offset by reece and co being people who were very obvious about hating tau and wishing they never existed, and now it seems they got their way.

Seriously the pts are only part of the issue a lot of the Tau stuff shows the problem that even the previously lackluster stuff has been nerfed into the ground and that most weapons in general are poorer.

As for the "Buffs" yay a coldstar can fly 40" but wtf is it going to do when it gets there with 8 str 6 -1 rend shots.

"The Storm surge can fire 10 weapons" that includes 4 "Destroyer" missiles that have an impressive 0.772% chance of all hitting, a main gun that requires being almost in charge range to get the most out of.

 Insectum7 wrote:


What is a Land Raider Excelsior?

One of the special command tanks they rolled out a while ago. Had a grav cannon in place of the heavy bolter and projected a weak invulnerable save field around it.

SeanDrake wrote:

gungo wrote:
Considering Frankie was one of the top tau players in the country and playtested the new faction a lot. I'd say they are probably balanced.

Which was offset by reece and co being people who were very obvious about hating tau and wishing they never existed, and now it seems they got their way.

Seriously the pts are only part of the issue a lot of the Tau stuff shows the problem that even the previously lackluster stuff has been nerfed into the ground and that most weapons in general are poorer.

As for the "Buffs" yay a coldstar can fly 40" but wtf is it going to do when it gets there with 8 str 6 -1 rend shots.

"The Storm surge can fire 10 weapons" that includes 4 "Destroyer" missiles that have an impressive 0.772% chance of all hitting, a main gun that requires being almost in charge range to get the most out of.

This all sounds glorious to me, I've always disliked tau since they turned up in 3rd or 4th

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
tac marines got combat knifes in the rules.

Since when?

 Crimson wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
tac marines got combat knifes in the rules.

Since when?

In old codex's they have at least, can't remember if they state it in 7th edition rule book.

SeanDrake wrote:

gungo wrote:
Considering Frankie was one of the top tau players in the country and playtested the new faction a lot. I'd say they are probably balanced.

Which was offset by reece and co being people who were very obvious about hating tau and wishing they never existed, and now it seems they got their way.

Seriously the pts are only part of the issue a lot of the Tau stuff shows the problem that even the previously lackluster stuff has been nerfed into the ground and that most weapons in general are poorer.

As for the "Buffs" yay a coldstar can fly 40" but wtf is it going to do when it gets there with 8 str 6 -1 rend shots.

"The Storm surge can fire 10 weapons" that includes 4 "Destroyer" missiles that have an impressive 0.772% chance of all hitting, a main gun that requires being almost in charge range to get the most out of.

.772% chance of hitting without markerlight. synergy is taus whole thing.

storm bolters are a little disappointing that its the exact same thing as twin linked bolters. not that its bad or anything 4 shots is 4 shots.


hang on i think i missed the marker light rules.

i know 1 gives you rerolls of 1. did the rest get leaked?

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
tac marines got combat knifes in the rules.

Since when?

In old codex's they have at least, can't remember if they state it in 7th edition rule book.

No they don't, they never had.

 JohnU wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:


What is a Land Raider Excelsior?

One of the special command tanks they rolled out a while ago. Had a grav cannon in place of the heavy bolter and projected a weak invulnerable save field around it.

Ahh, righto. Thanks!

Combat Knives are for the Space Marine scouts. Power Knives are the ones Tacticals wear, so they don't have a +1 attack if they don't have Chainswords. (I think. I can be wrong)

 Desubot wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

gungo wrote:
Considering Frankie was one of the top tau players in the country and playtested the new faction a lot. I'd say they are probably balanced.

Which was offset by reece and co being people who were very obvious about hating tau and wishing they never existed, and now it seems they got their way.

Seriously the pts are only part of the issue a lot of the Tau stuff shows the problem that even the previously lackluster stuff has been nerfed into the ground and that most weapons in general are poorer.

As for the "Buffs" yay a coldstar can fly 40" but wtf is it going to do when it gets there with 8 str 6 -1 rend shots.

"The Storm surge can fire 10 weapons" that includes 4 "Destroyer" missiles that have an impressive 0.772% chance of all hitting, a main gun that requires being almost in charge range to get the most out of.

.772% chance of hitting without markerlight. synergy is taus whole thing.

storm bolters are a little disappointing that its the exact same thing as twin linked bolters. not that its bad or anything 4 shots is 4 shots.


hang on i think i missed the marker light rules.

i know 1 gives you rerolls of 1. did the rest get leaked?

Rest of the ML table is here https://www.facebook.com/GrotOrderly/photos/pcb.1453285424737613/1453283591404463/?type=3&theater

2 is Destroyer/Seeker missiles fire at users BS.
3 is no penalty to moving and shooting heavy weapons or advancing and shooting assault weapons.
4 is no cover bonus
5 is +1 to hit

 Desubot wrote:
storm bolters are a little disappointing that its the exact same thing as twin linked bolters. not that its bad or anything 4 shots is 4 shots.

In all honesty. There are three ways this could have gone.

Option 1: The least fluffy way, was to just make storm bolters in to a completely new weapon with completely different stats. This would improve them, but wouldn't jive with 30 years for fluff.

Option 2: Storm bolter becomes a linked bolter, the things wielded by non-terminators and infantry units become combi-bolters (i.e. Rapid Fire 2, but -1 to hit). This would have jived with 2nd Edition's use of them, but everyone that wasn't an Imperial terminator would cry murder at the thought of firing their weapon at a negative (even if at -1 to-hit the thing is still better than the original storm bolter).

Option 3: Stop pretending there is a difference between two linked bolters (bikes), storm bolters, and combi-bolters.

Part of me would have preferred option 1, but I think option 2 is the most logical without causing tactical terminators to spend too many points on shooting and assault. They're still generalists, but not overpaying for shooting while becoming quite a bit better in the CQB environment they're supposed to thrive in. A storm bolter is just a fancy name for a double bolter, and a lot of armies have other versions of the exact same weapon concept. We didn't need 2-3 different sets of rules for two bolters firing at the same time while being close together.

Making them all RF2 was the most elegant solution that also upgunned tactical terminators to a level that wasn't laughable. Deep striking tactical terminators will actually be able to send out a wall of bolts now, possibly acting like the ace-in-the-hole linebreakers they were meant to be.

Question: so do you actually have to separately purchase all wargears ?

Like the furioso dreadnought have to buy his two fists?

 Desubot wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

gungo wrote:
Considering Frankie was one of the top tau players in the country and playtested the new faction a lot. I'd say they are probably balanced.

Which was offset by reece and co being people who were very obvious about hating tau and wishing they never existed, and now it seems they got their way.

Seriously the pts are only part of the issue a lot of the Tau stuff shows the problem that even the previously lackluster stuff has been nerfed into the ground and that most weapons in general are poorer.

As for the "Buffs" yay a coldstar can fly 40" but wtf is it going to do when it gets there with 8 str 6 -1 rend shots.

"The Storm surge can fire 10 weapons" that includes 4 "Destroyer" missiles that have an impressive 0.772% chance of all hitting, a main gun that requires being almost in charge range to get the most out of.

.772% chance of hitting without markerlight. synergy is taus whole thing.

storm bolters are a little disappointing that its the exact same thing as twin linked bolters. not that its bad or anything 4 shots is 4 shots.


hang on i think i missed the marker light rules.

i know 1 gives you rerolls of 1. did the rest get leaked?

Sure did...

1 marker rerolls 1s to hit
2 markers - a destroyer/seeker fires at the firers BS
3 markers - no penalty for heavy/rapid fire weapons when moving/advancing
4 markers - remove the bonuses for cover
5 markers - +1 to to hit rolls

Ninja'd

 RedFox wrote:
Question: so do you actually have to separately purchase all wargears ?

Like the furioso dreadnought have to buy his two fists?

Yes. Except for named characters, who have their wargear included in their point costs.
It also seems like things that don't exist as upgrades are pointed into the unit (so they cost 0pts). It's sort of all over the map really. Hopefully the app will make this all trivial to calculate.

For example, a landraider is actually 350ish points.
239 for the base, then 100 for the two lascannon sponsons, then another 15ish for the heavy bolters (too lazy to look up actual costs).

@Desubot:

markerlights now have a new ruleset that stacks up depending on how many markerlights are on the target. also all units firing on the target get the bonuses. no longer is it "charge" system like before:

1: reroll to hit rolls of 1 for every tau empire unit shooting on the target
2: destroyer and seeker missles fired at the target hit on the users normal BS instead of only on a 6.
3: Tau Empire units do not suffer the -1 to hit penality for firing heavy weapons if they moved, assault weapons also do not get the -1 to hit modifier when they advanced.
4: the target unit does not gain any bonuses to their save roll for being in cover.
5: add +1 to hit rolls for tau empire models.

as mentioned before, those bonuses stack and last until the end of the phase.

 RedFox wrote:
Question: so do you actually have to separately purchase all wargears ?

Like the furioso dreadnought have to buy his two fists?

Look at the bright side:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/Contemptor-Pattern-Dreadnought-Body?_requestid=4096535
This is gonna be a legal unit to field. And as with weapons it costs literally twice his price... you can have the feeling of fielding a Contemptor Dreadnought for half the price!

 Desubot wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

gungo wrote:
Considering Frankie was one of the top tau players in the country and playtested the new faction a lot. I'd say they are probably balanced.

Which was offset by reece and co being people who were very obvious about hating tau and wishing they never existed, and now it seems they got their way.

Seriously the pts are only part of the issue a lot of the Tau stuff shows the problem that even the previously lackluster stuff has been nerfed into the ground and that most weapons in general are poorer.

As for the "Buffs" yay a coldstar can fly 40" but wtf is it going to do when it gets there with 8 str 6 -1 rend shots.

"The Storm surge can fire 10 weapons" that includes 4 "Destroyer" missiles that have an impressive 0.772% chance of all hitting, a main gun that requires being almost in charge range to get the most out of.

.772% chance of hitting without markerlight. synergy is taus whole thing.

storm bolters are a little disappointing that its the exact same thing as twin linked bolters. not that its bad or anything 4 shots is 4 shots.


hang on i think i missed the marker light rules.

i know 1 gives you rerolls of 1. did the rest get leaked?

^from the leaked images

 Galas wrote:

 RedFox wrote:
Question: so do you actually have to separately purchase all wargears ?

Like the furioso dreadnought have to buy his two fists?

Look at the bright side:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/Contemptor-Pattern-Dreadnought-Body?_requestid=4096535
This is gonna be a legal unit to field. And as with weapons it costs literally twice his price... you can have the feeling of fielding a Contemptor Dreadnought for half the price!

Well... no. They still come with default wargear, the cost is just separate. You can't take nothing.

Anyone who's seen the nid lists know if spike rifles or stranglewebs are in?