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It's working now. 50 quid savings on the Knight bundle :(

£50 saving on the knights
£32 on the Helltalons
£31 on the Storm Eagles
£21 on the Xiphons

meh, not really that big a deal unless you were going to buy them anyway

Looks like they've finally learned how to slap the word Chaos on things that could be either imperial or chaos.

We even have a dark Mechanicus character if you look carefully at the index pages.

No word on if there's a digital edition though, which is kinda my entire requirement before preordering it or not.

Looks like they have changed the name to "Greater Blight Drone" on the Forge World website, guessing because of the Bloat Drone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hope that Forge World list of factions units isn't up to date, as the Spartan Assault Tank isn't listed under Chaos Space Marines..

 Rippy wrote:
Looks like they have changed the name to "Greater Blight Drone" on the Forge World website, guessing because of the Bloat Drone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hope that Forge World list of factions units isn't up to date, as the Spartan Assault Tank isn't listed under Chaos Space Marines..

Hellforged Spartan Assault Tank, page 19.

changemod wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Looks like they have changed the name to "Greater Blight Drone" on the Forge World website, guessing because of the Bloat Drone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hope that Forge World list of factions units isn't up to date, as the Spartan Assault Tank isn't listed under Chaos Space Marines..

Hellforged Spartan Assault Tank, page 19.

Thanks dudebro!

 Polonius wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.

For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.

And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!

I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.

There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.

that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.

It may not be critical to the Imperium(though I'd probably argue it is to an extent; for the Imperium general ignorance of technology is probably more important than decline per-se, but technological decline reinforces the general social decline), but it absolutely is for the Mechanicus. Their whole point is to be an indictment of dogma and blind obedience to ritual, to show the consequences of allowing fear and risk aversion to suppress creativity and independent thought. You can insert an occasional maverick character into that to tell an interesting story or provide an audience PoV character, but Cawl isn't just some random Magos Explorator getting a bit feisty and tweaking an STC a bit or looking a bit too closely at some Xenos tech, he's churning out whole new technologies in multiple disciplines on a level that even the Mechanicus, nevermind the Imperium as a whole, haven't been able to make on any kind of scale in millennia. Ryza is the only Forgeworld left with the expertise to build most Plasma tech? Naah, Cawl has you covered. Most Marine Chapters can't even manufacture MKIV armour any more? Eh, no probs have whole new Marks that are even more betterer than MKIV. Even if this whole "nah nah it's cool bro, it's all been in a vault for 10,000 years that's all" line from GW is taken at face value, Cawl would be fethed, Rowboat or no Rowboat; he should be lucky to avoid Servitorization for hoarding holy technology, and then it should take at least a few centuries for the creaking, dogmatic, wilfully-ignorant Mechanicus hierarchy to put all of these designs through the proper rituals of verification and consecration before they were certified for actual use.

I mean we're supposed to be talking about an organisation that has an hour-long ritual and specific holy lubricating oil to start up a computer and that makes the church's persecution of Gallileo look like a mild dressing down

The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.

To a large degree that's true even taking into account quibbles like the degree to which Marine releases a self-fulfilling prophesy, but I don't actually object to them adding new models, even fairly fugly ones like this, it's about how they add them and which models specifically are being added. I mean crikey, it wasn't a month ago that I was lamenting FW deciding to make up their own new special-snowflake vehicles for the Heresy Custodes rather than doing grav-Rhinos; if this thing was turretless, slathered in gold paint and a 30K release I'd be hyped as feth.

 gorgon wrote:

Spoiler:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.

There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.

Y'know, I don't think you get to define how others are supposed to process, enjoy, or find meaning in some given material. You may have your own way that you perceive it and engage with it, but that has ZERO importance to how anyone else does the same. I feel like you struggle MIGHTILY with this basic concept.

Your statement above is full of personal opinion. Other individuals might point to to seeds of hope planted in the 40K background, such as the possible resurrection of the Emperor and/or his Primarchs (themes in the background since RT), or the existence of the Tau. You may choose to dismiss them or fit them into your view of the background in a different way. But others may be attracted to those concepts and find them important in the way they experience the background. And to them, the return of Guilliman, etc. aren't paradigm-shifting events but a gentle breeze being applied to small embers of hope.

Nah, sorry chief, you don't get to "well that's just like your opinion man" your way around this. This is basic, "how fiction works" stuff - settings have core themes, if you undermine those themes you change the setting on a fundamental level. You can like those changes, but you don't get to pretend they don't exist or ignore their magnitude. To illustrate, a little thought experiment: a new show comes out, featuring a small crew of cynical mercenaries that don't care about anyone except themselves trying to survive in a galaxy run by monstrous space-fascists. The show's creators put the words "Star Trek" in the title and say the monstrous space-fascists are what the Federation becomes after the Dominion War. You're going to sit there and tell me that the setting hasn't been fundamentally changed? That it's still Star Trek in any meaningful sense? I mean, Star Trek has those Mirror Universe episodes and that one DS9 two-parter about a coup, by your logic the fact the setting previously contained dystopian elements even in comparitively tiny amounts justifies transforming the fundamental nature of that setting, no? Obviously the comparison is hyperbolic, GW are not utterly destroying 40K's core premise, but it's a difference in degree not in kind.

You bring up thing like the Tau, but that merely reinforced the point. Not only are they self-evidently not part of humanity, but the whole point of them was to be defined against the hopeless failure that humanity had become - what made the Tau special is that they innovate rather than stagnate, that they expand rather than partially reconquer old losses, that they cooperate or at least subjugate rather than exterminate. The Tau exist to provide an alternative to the hopeless state of humanity and in so doing reinforce it. What made them 40K was that, in the end, their ingenuity and drive almost certainly wouldn't matter because they live in the same galaxy as Tyranids, Necrons, Daemons, and an empire of regressive genocidal xenophobes.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." - whether 40K was in wry Pythonesque humour mode, cynical 2000AD satire mode, or relentless emo grimdark mode, the futility of hope in the face of humanity's decline -a decline made inevitable because it stems not from humanity's circumstances but our own fundamental flaws as a species and as individuals- has been right at the core of 40K.

 Rippy wrote:
For those who prefer the stagnant Imperium, there are links in the OP about the "Dark Imperium". The galaxy is in half, we have both a progressive and regressive imperium at the same time.

All information in the OP.

Please take further discussion of this topic to a general thread. You shouldnt have to wait for a mod to hand you a warning, they have a hard enough time keeping this thread in check.

The topic of this thread is the new edition of 40K, the new fluff and how it changes the setting is every bit as much a part of that new edition as the new rules and how they change the gameplay or the new models and whether people like them or not. If people can spend twenty pages arguing the minutae of the wording of a particular rule, I don't see why a few posts discussing fluff that is explicitly new and related to the new edition should be "kept in check". I mean crikey, we're discussing material that's mostly coming out of the actual 8th edition rulebook.

Also, you're incorrect. There is an Imperium, and an area of space that used to be controlled by the Imperium. "Dark Imperium" doesn't have appear to have a government, nor does it appear to be a unified faction, it's a wilderness dotted with disconnected pockets of civilisation, a galactic post-apocalyse, and is in no way comparable to the pre-Robute's return Imperium of Man. More like the galaxy as a whole during the Age of Strife.



Anywho, I ordered my box and a set of objective markers. Seeing the 360s has made me like the Nurgle models a lot more, I might keep them rather than selling them on afterall. The sprue pics of the Primaris are a relief - I'd been worried they'd be difficult to convert given the fixed poses, but the way they've split them means the tweaks needed to make them into truescale versions of proper armour marks should be minimal, sculpting work aside. Oddly enough the part I'm most excited to get my hands on is the Lieutenant's bolt pistol - the size and layout looks like it would make a perfect bolt-SMG style weapon for a human scale model. The helmets should also make for an interesting variant MKIV for Heresy marines - the filtered versions from the Flying Lobsters would look great on some MKIV Destroyers.

Plague Hulk is on the list!!!!!!

 Rippy wrote:
@Changemod
I can't read it, is Plague Hulk of Nurgle on there?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Infact, if someone could provide a clear picture of the contents page, or be happy to list of the forge world index pages (big job I know), I am sure we would all appreciate it.

Here's the chaos one;

Thanks Changemod, I was looking in the wrong place, noticed right before you posted.

Edit: lol our posts were 5 seconds apart in fact.

 JoeRugby wrote:
Pre-order placed.

Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.

Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.

£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples

 Motograter wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:
Pre-order placed.

Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.

Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.

£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples

Do those prices include delivery?

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Motograter wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:
Pre-order placed.

Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.

Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.

£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples

Do those prices include delivery?

No but theyd still be cheaper. Outpost post cost £3.50 making it £74.50. I knoe its just under but its still cheaper
Wargames uk free post so still same

Plague Toads and Pox Riders? For 40k?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plague Toads and Pox Riders? For 40k?

What a time to be alive

Plumbumbarum wrote:
So, GW recently managed to:

- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ awful sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)

but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap. Are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?

Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.

I think most of the people who would have ripped into GW in the past have already left the building. That's why their sales are down year on year. 8th edition isn't meant for them, it's meant to attract new people in to replace them. It also need to attract new players in to replace all the ones it's going to drive away. I know looking at the new models I have no interest in super space marines or out of scale nurgle marines.

I'll save final judgement on the rules until I've played a demo or too, but nothing I've read have given me anything to get excited about.

Over the last month or so all these leaks have been coming out I know my interest for the game has all but disappeared after 23 years. However the recent FW announcement has made me think maybe focusing on 30K (and ignoring the horrible things they have done to the 40K fluff) will fill the void.

£250 for the limited edition, who the hell is buying that. That's basically a warhound titans body for emperors sake.

 Motograter wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Motograter wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:
Pre-order placed.

Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.

Lol where did you look? Thats the most expensive outside of going direct.

£71 from outpost
£71.25 from wargames uk as just some examples

Do those prices include delivery?

No but theyd still be cheaper. Outpost post cost £3.50 making it £74.50. I knoe its just under but its still cheaper
Wargames uk free post so still same

NB If you live near enough and add another £5 (or more) GW item you can collect Dark Imperium in person for the web price from Dark Sphere, which matches Wargames UK.

Is that why share price is at a current record high and has been steadily climbing? Due to low sales right? https://www.google.com.au/search?q=games+workshop+shares&oq=games&aqs=chrome.5.69i57j69i60l3j35i39l2.3790j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 JoeRugby wrote:
Pre-order placed.

Dark sphere were the cheapest I could find £75.05 including delivery.

I'll see your £75.05 from Dark Sphere with £75.00 from Asgard Wargames, with free P&P!

Well...
Maybe i am blind or something but:

There is no ad mech in the Forge World Indexes or?
No Secutarii Hoplites, no Ordinatus.
Strange...isn it?

Probably because they'll be in Fires of Cyraxus when it is eventually released.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Probably because they'll be in Fires of Cyraxus when it is eventually released.

More worryingly, it seems they aren't porting proper Custodes over.

Plague Hulk of Nurgle.

Okay my hype is complete. I cannot be at a level of more hype for New 40k now!

Just look at how happy this guy is at the news!



He can't get the smile off his face!

I'm going half and half with a friend on the starter set. Can't wait!

Seito O wrote:
Well...
Maybe i am blind or something but:

There is no ad mech in the Forge World Indexes or?
No Secutarii Hoplites, no Ordinatus.
Strange...isn it?

Hate to point out the seemingly obvious, but those aren't Space Marine, Chaos, Xenos or Astra Militarum units, why would you expect them to be in those books?

Charax wrote:

Seito O wrote:
Well...
Maybe i am blind or something but:

There is no ad mech in the Forge World Indexes or?
No Secutarii Hoplites, no Ordinatus.
Strange...isn it?

Hate to point out the seemingly obvious, but those aren't Space Marine, Chaos, Xenos or Astra Militarum units, why would you expect them to be in those books?

*shruggs*
Thought all rules would be avaible + they would go the the indexes of GW (Imp in one book, Xenos etc.).

Because for 4 units one lone book would be rather...strange?

changemod wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Probably because they'll be in Fires of Cyraxus when it is eventually released.

More worryingly, it seems they aren't porting proper Custodes over.

Right, so, the indices are get-you-by compilations of rules for Forge World's 40k line, yeah? Everything FW make that has a 40k profile.
Forge World make no Custodes that have 40k rules at this time; they have not yet made any attempt to port their additions to the Custodes from AoD/30k.
Either they don't want to, they aren't allowed to, or they aren't ready to yet.

In terms of rules for Custodes in 8th edition 40k, GW will be publishing their own rules for them in Index Imperium 2 to start with.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Probably because they'll be in Fires of Cyraxus when it is eventually released.

More worryingly, it seems they aren't porting proper Custodes over.

Right, so, the indices are get-you-by compilations of rules for Forge World's 40k line, yeah? Everything FW make that has a 40k profile.
Forge World make no Custodes that have 40k rules at this time; they have not yet made any attempt to port their additions to the Custodes from AoD/30k.
Either they don't want to, they aren't allowed to, or they aren't ready to yet.

In terms of rules for Custodes in 8th edition 40k, GW will be publishing their own rules for them in Index Imperium 2 to start with.

They're porting plenty of other things that didn't have rules before, and it kinda made sense that the nonsensical Talons release for 7th was a hold you over for a month or two release.

That they actually did give in imperium index 2 the ridiculous HQ and two types of troop awkwardly merged into a single unit stats again is a bad thing, in that it lowers the chance of actual Custodes rules being a thing.

Went down to my local GW for the pre-order this morning...have never seen it so busy. Was nice flicking through the rules and various gubbinz you get in the Dark Imperium boxed set. I found the miniatures a lot better in person, the Nurgle side especially.

See the usual upset crew are in, it makes me enjoy the release even more!

GW has 350 quid of my money today, why do I have to wait 2 weeks! I caved and went for the limited edition, knew I'd regret it if I didn't.

Offer is still there for any people cross with GW, I will take models off people's hands for a reasonable price so they can go play another game. I'll even throw in some Antares stuff