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 whembly wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I do: howly mowly. I wanted to buy one anyway because it is one of the coolest models GW/fw makes, but dangy langy ding dong that's good. My one fear is that, just based on the three FW unit rules we have seen thus far, FW is doubling down on their perception of being a pay to win vanity company. I really hope GW goes out of its way to make it clear FW stuff is just as valid as GW's.

It's gotta be 900+ points like the new Ork Stompa... still super stoked about it.

I doubt it, the stompa has almost 20 more power levels than the scorpion so we're looking at probably 500-700pts. Which is great news for us but even worse news for Orks.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I do: howly mowly. I wanted to buy one anyway because it is one of the coolest models GW/fw makes, but dangy langy ding dong that's good. My one fear is that, just based on the three FW unit rules we have seen thus far, FW is doubling down on their perception of being a pay to win vanity company. I really hope GW goes out of its way to make it clear FW stuff is just as valid as GW's.

It's gotta be 900+ points like the new Ork Stompa... still super stoked about it.

Don't be silly. An Ork Stompa is 49 power, while a scorp is 32. It will be around, maybe, 500 points max.

Terminus Ultra is 30 power and 600 points.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I do: howly mowly. I wanted to buy one anyway because it is one of the coolest models GW/fw makes, but dangy langy ding dong that's good. My one fear is that, just based on the three FW unit rules we have seen thus far, FW is doubling down on their perception of being a pay to win vanity company. I really hope GW goes out of its way to make it clear FW stuff is just as valid as GW's.

It's gotta be 900+ points like the new Ork Stompa... still super stoked about it.

I doubt it, the stompa has almost 20 more power levels than the scorpion so we're looking at probably 500-700pts. Which is great news for us but even worse news for Orks.

I can only hope so... but, man dat damage output!!!

 whembly wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I do: howly mowly. I wanted to buy one anyway because it is one of the coolest models GW/fw makes, but dangy langy ding dong that's good. My one fear is that, just based on the three FW unit rules we have seen thus far, FW is doubling down on their perception of being a pay to win vanity company. I really hope GW goes out of its way to make it clear FW stuff is just as valid as GW's.

It's gotta be 900+ points like the new Ork Stompa... still super stoked about it.

I doubt it, the stompa has almost 20 more power levels than the scorpion so we're looking at probably 500-700pts. Which is great news for us but even worse news for Orks.

I can only hope so... but, man dat damage output!!!

And it didn't even get the chance to use it's S10 pistols in the combat!

Yeah, I would put it at around 450-470 considering the points of a lord of skulls.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I do: howly mowly. I wanted to buy one anyway because it is one of the coolest models GW/fw makes, but dangy langy ding dong that's good. My one fear is that, just based on the three FW unit rules we have seen thus far, FW is doubling down on their perception of being a pay to win vanity company. I really hope GW goes out of its way to make it clear FW stuff is just as valid as GW's.

It's gotta be 900+ points like the new Ork Stompa... still super stoked about it.

I doubt it, the stompa has almost 20 more power levels than the scorpion so we're looking at probably 500-700pts. Which is great news for us but even worse news for Orks.

I can only hope so... but, man dat damage output!!!

And it didn't even get the chance to use it's S10 pistols in the combat!

<shudder>

HELLFORGE HUNTING PACK IZ BACK!

Any chance you can tally up the subsequent shooting phase?

 whembly wrote:

<shudder>

HELLFORGE HUNTING PACK IZ BACK!

Any chance you can tally up the subsequent shooting phase?

VS an Imperial Knight:
7*2/3*2/3 + 3.5*2/3*2/3*2/3*3.5 + 10*2/3*1/3*2/3*2 = 3 + 3.5 + 3 = 9.5 wounds on a knight (using all it's weapons)

Not so impressive as it's cc slaughter of the knight but how does the shooting do against terminators?
VS terminators
7*5/6*1/2 + 3.5*2/3*5/6*2/3*2 + 10*2/3*2/3*1/2*2 = 3 + 2.5 + 4.5 = 10 wounds on a terminator unit (using all it's weapons)

So one dead termi squad per turn, not bad. How about SM?
VS SM:
7*5/6*2/3 + 3.5*2/3*5/6*5/6 + 10*2/3*5/6*2/3 = 4 + 2 + 4 = 10 wounds on a SM unit (using all it's weapons)

So two dead SM units per turn.

What do we think?

(Also this is all done in my head so there might be a lot of rounding)

I think the Warp smith is a great Swiss army knife unit now. Adding a Combi weapon he can either take one of every special, double melta, or double flamer for 2d6 auto hits even in overwatch.

The guns are really icing on the cake. If you're not rubbing your booty up against the enemy before exploding and taking half their army with you, you're doing it wrong.

The smith is good but is he really cost effective? He's gotta buy all those weapons. He might be a bit too good offensively for his defense.

Nightlord1987 wrote:I think the Warp smith is a great Swiss army knife unit now. Adding a Combi weapon he can either take one of every special, double melta, or double flamer for 2d6 auto hits even in overwatch.

He isn't bad but I think I'd still take a Lord: as far as buffs for near by vehicles I think I'd take re-rolling 1s over restoring wounds.

andysonic1 wrote:The guns are really icing on the cake. If you're not rubbing your booty up against the enemy before exploding and taking half their army with you, you're doing it wrong.

Now all I need is to find someone selling dat scorpion ass off cheap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smith is good but is he really cost effective? He's gotta buy all those weapons. He might be a bit too good offensively for his defense.

His weapons are all a bit short ranged for someone meant to support a gunline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'm gonna get some sleep. Catch you all tomorrow.

Considerations so far.

CSM Daemon Princes, though 2 wounds less than Daemon Daemon Princes seem to be universally better choices - the fact that they buff Heretic Astartes units of their Legion as well as Daemons of their God is great. Two for one buff bubble is great.

Fabius Bile is hilarious. Incredibly cheap, surprisingly resilient - considering how safe characters are when mixed in with units - and able to buff a unit every turn. This includes Poxwalkers and Cult Troops.

Want a chance for T6 Plague Marines? 3 attack Poxwalkers or Berserkers? S6 Berserkers? Take a gamble. The risk of a mortal wound or two is a pain but it's kind of hilarious for the end result. Only downside is he can't hit a ride with anyone (lacking a Legion keyword) - but hey, 3 shot pistol wounding non-vehicles on a 2+ at 18 inch range.

I'm actually thinking Chaos Spawn are potentially more hilarious than they were before. They got beefier, cheaper and they actually hit harder in combat than before with -2 AP. Only downside...they're Beasts, not Infantry :( I wanted to buff these puppies with Fabius.

I'm honestly considering trying to fit in a bundle of Heretic Astartes and to have Bile walking amongst the line at a certain point, just buffing the hell out of it each turn.

Do the CSM daemon engines marked for a particular god receive the buffs from that god? They have the keywords that those rules require. Did I overlook something that disallows this?

It looks legal. Smells slightly of keyword shenanigans, but in this case I think is correct usage.

I was wrong. They are all labeled on the datasheet with the specific rules name to be used. Dang... warptalons I want you to be good!

 Goat wrote:
I was wrong. They are all labeled on the datasheet with the specific rules name to be used. Dang... warptalons I want you to be good!

Explain? They look pretty good. Ish

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Goat wrote:
I was wrong. They are all labeled on the datasheet with the specific rules name to be used. Dang... warptalons I want you to be good!

Explain? They look pretty good. Ish

On page 68 it says "the following abilities are common on several Chaos Daemons."

Unstoppable Ferocity
"If a Khorne Daemon has this ability..."

The CSM engines may have Khorne and Daemon keywords, but they do not have this rule on their datasheet. All of the khorn daemons have "Unstoppable Ferocity" present.

Oh yeah, only the real daemons get the Daemon USRs (except poor Kairos).

You would still be a khorne daemon for the purposes of other buffs.

Hm, why are Maulerfiends WS 4+ but other Walkers are 3+? Kinda sucks.. i mean 4 attacks / 12 wounds ain't that much for ~150 points and +2" movement compared to a brute.
And Magma-cutters are Melta-Pistols? Welp, gonna get rid of them i suppose..

TonyH122 wrote:
Terminators
Has anyone had a chance to play with Terminators yet? I got so excited that I bought two Terminator Lords, one of which I've built as a sorcerer. I've always loved terminators, and may be the only person in the world who likes the Terminator models. And they're a joy to paint!

I was thinking something like the following:
5x Terminators (304pts):
2x Power Fist and Combi-Melta (champion here)
2x Power Axe and Combi-Melta
1x Power Axe and Reaper Autocannon

I can't not have the Reaper Autocannon, as it's just too cool looking (though the D1 makes me sad). I was thinking of putting in a Combi-Flamer on one of the Power Fist guys, but I still think specialisation is the name of the game.


Daemon Princes
Also, what are people's thoughts on how much of a bully DPs are in the pool of monstrous creatures. I'm not saying that they're underpowered for their cost, but do we get the feeling that in the yard of monstrous creatures, the DP is more of a scrappy pipsqueak than a front row forward?

i played 2 times a squad of 5 termy, i didn't give them the reaper cause if they move they have -1 to hit with heavy weapons, i gave 5 combi meltas and chainfist, one time i used with them a sorcerer for warp time/preiscence, termies are fine for their cost,, if you want make them more durable embark them in LR so they mostly can fire and assault without risk a 9" charge.
About DP, for 156/180 (with wings) pts now you have a untargettable CM who can easily put out 8 attacks (repeating "1") if marked Korne and with double malefic talonse,they dont degrade when they take damage (most CM degrade), so i guess they are fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
one of most embarassing units in whole chaos index are obliterators, now they cant do just NOTHING in melee, they have no melee weapons, ridicolous.

 Goat wrote:
Do the CSM daemon engines marked for a particular god receive the buffs from that god? They have the keywords that those rules require. Did I overlook something that disallows this?

The guys on the stream were taking DR saves for a DG Defiler the other day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:

one of most embarassing units in whole chaos index are obliterators, now they cant do just NOTHING in melee, they have no melee weapons, ridicolous.

They can still attack with their "fists".

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Do the CSM daemon engines marked for a particular god receive the buffs from that god? They have the keywords that those rules require. Did I overlook something that disallows this?

The guys on the stream were taking DR saves for a DG Defiler the other day.

They confirmed that was a mistake.

 Goat wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Goat wrote:
I was wrong. They are all labeled on the datasheet with the specific rules name to be used. Dang... warptalons I want you to be good!

Explain? They look pretty good. Ish

On page 68 it says "the following abilities are common on several Chaos Daemons."

Unstoppable Ferocity
"If a Khorne Daemon has this ability..."

The CSM engines may have Khorne and Daemon keywords, but they do not have this rule on their datasheet. All of the khorn daemons have "Unstoppable Ferocity" present.

In one of GWs twitch games a player was using the daemon buffs on a Helbrute, which makes no sense given that they don't even have a daemon keyword.

one of most embarassing units in whole chaos index are obliterators, now they cant do just NOTHING in melee, they have no melee weapons, ridicolous.

Everything has a melee weapon. They're not powerfists anymore, which sucks, but they still have 3 S5 attacks.

Gordon Shumway wrote:
In one of GWs twitch games a player was using the daemon buffs on a Helbrute, which makes no sense given that they don't even have a daemon keyword.

mrhappyface wrote:They confirmed that was a mistake.

Think it is around 5 or so years since I hung up the hobby, but this new ed looks fun.

I never experienced the legion book, so my perception is from the 5(?) ed codex.

Back in those days I almost could field 40000 points of chaos, and I got my old painting/playing buddy to dust of his Imperial army (Ultra, SoB and Imperial Guard). Trading 2 boxes of Dark Imperium will make my Death Guard contigion almost ready for Mortarion.
Just a bit miffed that I don't know what to paint since the "real" codex is coming sometime this millennia.

I just dusted of my "new" box of dark vengeance and started to paint cultist.

Looking at the datasheet I am glad I finished painting my Greater Brass Scorpion for my last Apoc fight all those years ago.

whats the mathhammer of a scorpion vs a stompa?

 gummyofallbears wrote:
whats the mathhammer of a scorpion vs a stompa?

Scorpion charges:
8*2/3*2/3*6 = 21 wounds on stompa
4*1/3*5/6*2/3*6 = 4.5 wounds on scorpion
8*2/3*2/3*6 = 21 wounds on stompa

Stompa charges:
4*2/3*5/6*2/3*6 = 9 wounds on scorpion
8*2/3*2/3*6 = 21 wounds on stompa
4*1/3*5/6*2/3*6 = 4.5 wounds on scorpion
6*2/3*2/3*6 = 15 wounds on stompa
4*1/6*2/3*2/3*6 = 2 wounds on scorpion
6*2/3*2/3*6 = 15 wounds on stompa

Scorpion takes the stompa both times.
(Once again mental mathhammer)

The stompa isn't looking pretty since it is 900+ points and can be beaten by most other big meanies.

Not good sample. The Stompa is a pretty terrible bad unit for 900 (well, 975)

It should cost nearly the half.

 blackmage wrote:

one of most embarassing units in whole chaos index are obliterators, now they cant do just NOTHING in melee, they have no melee weapons, ridicolous.

Yeah that was suprising, but 3 A at S 5 isn't terrible. I think the Powerfists were removed to make Mutilators more viable.

However, Obliterators were awesome in my first game, providing excellent supporting fire and soaking up damage nicely. In my second game they has some awful to-hit rolling, although they still proved tough and remained instrumental. I'm finishing up the last of 9 now, and half thinking I'll try running them all alongside Abaddon for re-rolling to hit in the early game.