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gungo wrote:
You know what's going to be great about Astra militarism? So many units buff or improve or have special keywords that expand this army. Scions, inquisitors, ecclesiastical, sisters units like Celestine, gene stealer cults and likely renegade all inherently benefit and buff the guard. I am sure we will have one of the better armies with the amount of synergy that's being leaked.

It does add a bit of variety to the mirror match. I really want to face off against traitors, heretics and xenos without it always being superhuman death gods or insane space horrors. A battle against standard humans with a bit of a twist will be fun.

I wonder if we will see many Gue'vesa armies.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Who said they're going to remain 1 Wound?

+1 to this.
I don't think they will get 5 wounds, but I expect them to have ~3.
As I mentioned earlier, they are probably going to be cheaper than characters as well.

Commissars: Gives his LD to each AM unit within 6". Those units also can't lose more than 1 model from a failed battleshock test.

Pretty powerful if you can keep the Commissar alive and assuming blobs are still around.

 Trickstick wrote:

Commissars: Gives his LD to each AM unit within 6". Those units also can't lose more than 1 model from a failed battleshock test.

Pretty powerful if you can keep the Commissar alive and assuming blobs are still around.

Target their snipers first.

I also wonder if the 'chimera' as a command vehicle will let ICs use their aura's form inside -- or will they just be able to give orders?

 Trickstick wrote:

Commissars: Gives his LD to each AM unit within 6". Those units also can't lose more than 1 model from a failed battleshock test.

Pretty powerful if you can keep the Commissar alive and assuming blobs are still around.

Blobs better be around!

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Blobs better be around!

Well I'm 99% certain they will be but who knows? We haven't seen such a shakeup of the rules since the 2nd-3rd edition change. Also, blobs only came about in the 5th edition codex. Platoon structure is so weird that it could always change.

You really do have to throw away everything you know, A fair few people in 8th edition discussion use previous edition knowledge, which could have gone the way of the Squat, the Datafax or the outflanking charge of doom.

I was taking a look at the SoB Rhino leak and I noticed a few things.

It's T7 with 10 wounds and a 3+ save. Wow. That's one tough vehicle to crack. I expect the Chimera to be similar.
I don't see anything about 'fire points'. In the DE faction review it was said "Open Topped vehicles allow you to shoot out of them still, which is a massive benefit."
This is a strong indicator that the only thing that will be able to shoot out of Chimeras are the lasguns on the side, plus the internal weapons.

In the AM Faction focus, it was written "Your squads will no longer pop out of their Chimera, shoot one thing, and then die or run away immediately after the enemy returns fire. Nope, now, with the added “encouraging” presence of a nearby Commissar – which limits the losses of a bad Morale test – Astra Militarum are downright stalwart."
This is another indicator that AM squads will need to leave the chimera to be effective.

So I am looking over my regimental motor pool and I think that I have some remodeling to do. In the past, I put a lot of faith in battle cannons and demolisher cannons with just a hull flamer. They were a great, cheap unit with a backup weapon. However, sponsons seem like a great idea now that all weapons can be fired. With split fire, the standard las/bolt combo may be making a comeback.

Chimeras I can see going dual flamer if advancing or dual bolter if standing. The -1 to hit when moving will hurt my current multilaser/flamer combo but dual flamers could be a great assault unit.

I always stuck my back line artillery with flamers too, as it gave them a useful weapon if something got close and snap firing a bolter was kinda pointless. Now? Extra bolter shots seem more useful.

Well, my vehicles have had so many remodels over the years that another one is pretty much routine now. Will be interesting to see what turns out to be good. Of course, point are key. I may even decide to cut back on all the options for a larger force,

Shoot, at T7 and 10 wounds it makes sense it is 70 points before weapons now...wowzers twin bolt gun is 2 points though....so you can buy two twin boltguns for 4 points thats not bad in the dakka department.

Also the new barrage rules basically being "ignores line of sight" no other modifiers will be good for guard

Plasma cannon sponsons seem far better than meltas now, so I expect them to be super expensive. Maybe just save them for the command tanks and use bolters on other things to keep the costs down. Have to be very careful about inflating the cost of units that are not that hard to kill.

Sat here looking at my Stormsword. With the changes to twin-link, it has 30 heavy bolter shots, 4 lascannons and the main gun of doom. Also, not having to worry about fire arcs gives it a massive boost! You currently can barely get the guns on target.

I also saw a 'leak' earlier of SoB prices. The thing that hit me the most was the power sword for a SoB was 4 points -- the same as a marine.
This sucks for SoB, as the power sword is a lot less effective in their hands. In the case of normal sister squad, it's hitting on a 4+ and wounding MEQ on a 5+. A C:SM power sword hits on a 3+ and wounds on a 4+
AM sergeants with power swords will have the same odds of hitting. If IG are paying 4 points for power swords, it's less of a 'bang for your buck' than C:SM get. I hope that AM power weapons only cost 3 points each.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I also saw a 'leak' earlier of SoB prices. The thing that hit me the most was the power sword for a SoB was 4 points -- the same as a marine.
This sucks for SoB, as the power sword is a lot less effective in their hands. In the case of normal sister squad, it's hitting on a 4+ and wounding MEQ on a 5+. A C:SM power sword hits on a 3+ and wounds on a 4+
AM sergeants with power swords will have the same odds of hitting. If IG are paying 4 points for power swords, it's less of a 'bang for your buck' than C:SM get. I hope that AM power weapons only cost 3 points each.

This has been a problem since 6th. It used to be that, for example, sergeants got cheaper melee weapons than HQs. Otherwise, a 25pt Sergeant has to pay 60% of his cost for a power sword, whilst a 100pt Captain need only pay ~7% of his cost for the same - and he gets more value out of it with his improved WS, A and wounds.

Likewise, IG used to pay less for power weapons and fists than marines (10 and 15pts, respectively). Then that too changed, so that a guardsman sergeant has to pay 150% of his value for a power sword, in spite of getting less value from it than either the SM sergeant or the SM captain.

Seemingly, as with many things, GW haven't bothered to address the issue.

 Leth wrote:
Shoot, at T7 and 10 wounds it makes sense it is 70 points before weapons now...wowzers twin bolt gun is 2 points though....so you can buy two twin boltguns for 4 points thats not bad in the dakka department.

It's a hell of a deal. That's basically 4 extra bolters on every Rhino. Sure, it's not a huge amount of firepower, but the upgrade cost is well worth it.

If the AM Vehicle Equipment List offers heavy subbers and storm bolters as options, then I expect they will also be auto-includes.
An extra storm bolter, even if fired as BS3, is a great guy on a chimera with dual Flamers.

A heavy stubber is great to place on a LRBT (assuming they can ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons). It's also a good spot for dual HB chimeras.

As a side note, the way the math works, the -1 to hit for moving and shooting heavy weapons impacts AM a lot more than C:SM. Going from a 3+ to a 4+ to hit is not as bad as going for a 4+ to a 5+ to hit.
MEQ lose 33% damage output when they move and shoot. GEQ lose 50% firepower when they move and shoot.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Shoot, at T7 and 10 wounds it makes sense it is 70 points before weapons now...wowzers twin bolt gun is 2 points though....so you can buy two twin boltguns for 4 points thats not bad in the dakka department.

It's a hell of a deal. That's basically 4 extra bolters on every Rhino. Sure, it's not a huge amount of firepower, but the upgrade cost is well worth it.

If the AM Vehicle Equipment List offers heavy subbers and storm bolters as options, then I expect they will also be auto-includes.
An extra storm bolter, even if fired as BS3, is a great guy on a chimera with dual Flamers.

A heavy stubber is great to place on a LRBT (assuming they can ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons). It's also a good spot for dual HB chimeras.

As a side note, the way the math works, the -1 to hit for moving and shooting heavy weapons impacts AM a lot more than C:SM. Going from a 3+ to a 4+ to hit is not as bad as going for a 4+ to a 5+ to hit.
MEQ lose 33% damage output when they move and shoot. GEQ lose 50% firepower when they move and shoot.

I think one thing is that at 4 points there is not much wiggle room to drop it down. Luckily the new wounding mechanics make it less punishing than it was before in that they can wound toughness 5 on a 5+ instead of the 6+ before. And they can always wound anything on a 6. So power swords for them got a lot cheaper and are still a worthwhile investment at 4 points.

 vipoid wrote:
Seemingly, as with many things, GW haven't bothered to address the issue.

Yep. The issue is with 'copy and paste' for point costs across armies.
Take the HK missile. For 6 points on a rhino, I'd consider it. It's a nice upgrade for the point cost, especially given the number of vehicles/MCs I expect to see in this edition.
However, if that's also 6 points for guard, it's a kick in the nuts because thats less effective for the same cost. It should cost 4 points for guard because it's 1/3 less effective.
I'd like to think that GW would be smarter enough to realize that but honestly I don't have much hope. I expect there will be some things that are great for AM, and others that remain sub-par.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
I think one thing is that at 4 points there is not much wiggle room to drop it down. Luckily the new wounding mechanics make it less punishing than it was before in that they can wound toughness 5 on a 5+ instead of the 6+ before. And they can always wound anything on a 6. So power swords for them got a lot cheaper and are still a worthwhile investment at 4 points.

If look at Celestian's they also hit on a 3+ in assault.
That might be incentive for players to put power swords in their elite units but not for the rank and file guard.

Edit :
I don't mean to come across as sounding like I'm complaining. I'm not. I'm looking to see what's the most effective bangs for the buck. If a weapon costs the same for AM as C:SM, and it's less effective -- it's probably not the best buy. Instead focus on the things that make AM really effective on the table.


Edit 2: From 4chan.
>taurox and taurox prime m14" w10 r6 3+
>chimera m12" w10 r7 3+
>veterans have same stats as normal infantry except bs 3+; can have 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon a heavy flamer; 6ppm without equip
>valkyrie m20"(min)-45"(max); w14 s7 t7 3+
>can go in stationary flight mode and reduce its movement to up to 20", but loses the other rules of fliers (-1 to be hit, can only be charged by flying stuff)
>grav-chute deployment still in: if performed when moving more than 20" 1/6 models die
>hellstroke missiles: heavy1 s8 ap-2 d6
>ogryns w3 s5 t5; ws3+; +1 attack on charge; weapon is 12" ass3 s5 ap- d1
>vanquisher is heavy 1 72" s8 ap-3 d6, roll 2 dice for damage and discard the lower
>basilisk 240" heavyD6 s9 ap-3 d3, roll 2 dice for determining the number of shots and discard the lower; can shoot on units it can't see
>confirmed characters: yarrick, pask, creed, kell, harker, straken, nork

What am I missing with the vanquisher? It can't be as bad as it looks can it?

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
What am I missing with the vanquisher? It can't be as bad as it looks can it?

To be fair, it's not that great in 7th. I pretty much only use them with the bs4, co-axial stubber and beasthunter shells from FW.

Looking at this army list. it shows a few things.
- Transports are limited to 1 for every other units. This army has 2 HQ and 1 flyer, then 3 units each with a transport. This means that making a fully armored company is easily possible.
- All transports are expensive. Even raiders are 95 points before upgrades. In the case of warriors, the transport is more expensive than the unit inside. I expect AM will have the same.

Saw the stats of the shotgun in the sisters leak. Same as now but with +1str within half range. Maybe my squads of shotgun/melta vets won't be useless, as they can run and shoot with assault weapons. This makes shotguns better at hurting t6-7, so could be a decent MC/Vehicle hunting squad. HAve to get within 6" though.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
What am I missing with the vanquisher? It can't be as bad as it looks can it?

To be fair str8 ap -3 and d6 (2 rolls choose highest) isn't bad but at 4+ to hit or even 3+ to hit it's not good enough for the cost, it needs the coaxial rule on hull mounted weapons to be reliable enough.

Depends on the cost to be honest. If it is cheap enough to bring two of them, or they have solid access to re-rolls it can put the hurt on.

 Leth wrote:
Depends on the cost to be honest. If it is cheap enough to bring two of them, or they have solid access to re-rolls it can put the hurt on.

I sort of agree, but S8 hurts it pretty bad. Even if you reliably hit, with only one shot and S8, you're wounding the targets you care about only half the time. I'd almost rather have the Battle Cannon and get multiple shots, even if they do fewer wounds.

You need three shots from the vanquisher profile we know of to average a single unsaved wound on a T7 vehicle. They'll have to be pretty cheap to justify taking them in enough numbers for them to be useful.

Guard leaks here

Rules on LRBT

 labmouse42 wrote:
Guard leak on LRBT

Rules

Spoiler:

Stats
WS 6+, S7, T8, W12, L7, 3+ save
7-12 wounds: 4+ BS, 10" move
4-6 wounds: 5+ BS, 7" move
1-3 woundsL 6+BS, 4" move

Turrent Weapons
Battle Cannon : Heavy d6, STR 8 AP -2 D3 Damage
Eradicator Nova Cannon : Heavy D6, STR 6, AP -2, D3 Damage - Ignores Cover
Exterminator Autocannon : Heavy 4, STR 7, AP -1, D2
Vanquisher Battle Cannon : Heavy 1, STR 8, AP -3, D6 Damage : Roll 2 dice for damage, discard the lower result.

Wargear Options
- Replace HB with HF, or LC
- Take Sponons of HB, HF, MM, or PC
- Take Heavy Stubber or storm bolter
- Take HK missile

Abilities
- Vehicle Squadron : The first time this unit is set up, all models in this unit must be placed within 6" of each other. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit for all rules purposes.

- Grinding Advance : This model does not suffer the penalty to turret weapon hit rolls for shooting a heavy weapon on a turn it has moved.

- Exploders : When reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6. On a 6 it explodes - each unit with in 6" suffers D3 mortal wounds.

- Smoke Launchers : ONce per game instead of shooting weapons, the model can use smoke launchers. Until your next shooting phase all ranged attacks are -1 to hit.

Missing the bottom, which is "Emergency Plasma Vents". Take 6 mortal wounds instead of being destroyed from plasma cannon. Also lose gun.

Looking at the spoiled AM pages on the main news&rumors thread, looks like we lost all elaborate organization options. The downside is no blobs at the moment, unless there are missing pages. The upside is that Guard will have a ridiculously easy time filling out detachment charts. Platoon Commanders are HQs, SWS are elites, HWS are heavy support. Vets are elites, unfortunately, and it looks like they lost some special rules options (hard to tell, pics are pretty low res).

A Brigade detachment of 6 infantry squads, 3 SWS, 3 HWS, 3 Scout Sentinels, and whatever mix of HQ you want looks to be pretty cheap, and leave a ton of points for customization as you desire. Orders being automatic is good, but without blobs they'll lose some bite. Cheap platoon commanders to keep dishing out orders is probably going to mitigate this, though.

Depending on points, I could see running 3 SWS with a platoon Commander as the Elites detachment (can't remember the name). You get +1 CP, special weapons everywhere, and it doesn't cost you much. The same could apply to vets or HWS.

Not too impressed with Leman Russes so far, but I haven't seen the points.

Platoon commanders are elites, Company commanders are HQ.

Our elite slots look very full. Psykers, enginseers, commissars, all of the advisors and more.

My bad, missed that. It's cut off in the picture I have. I guess I made an assumption.

Flyers are completely changed.
Vendettas are gone.
Valkyrie chassies are 3 points more than a LRBT with more wounds and 1 less toughness. They are also transports.
Hellstrike missiles might be more than 1 shot weapons. They seem to be Heavy 1.
A vendettas with a LC, 2 multiple rocket pods, and 2 HB is 193pts. A chimera is 111 points, just to put things in comparison.

Infantry squads are cheap.
10 guard with a flamer and a heavy bolter are 55 points.

Melta-Hounds are Nasty
For 128 points, you get d3+1 MM shots. T7 with 11 wounds makes it tough to kill.

LRBT
A LRBT with a battle cannon and 3 HBs is only 178 points.
Plasma cannon sponons are only 14 more points. Given how good PC's are, that's a pretty good deal.

Spamming Special Weapons
5 militarum Tempestus Scions can bring 2 PG in their squad for 59 points. These are troops.
A special weapons squad can bring 3 PGs for 45 points.
10 Vets can do the same 81. Vets can bring 3 special weapons, 1 heavy flamer, and 1 heavy weapon in a single unit. All hitting on a 3+

 labmouse42 wrote:
Vendettas are gone.

Probably a forge world unit now. In fact, I guess that they will be 250. 130 base for Valk, 6xlascannon (going off similar twin las in space marines that are simply double normal las).