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 Otto von Bludd wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
It seems you can fire the lasgun on a HWT now. Dunno why I didn't notice it earlier. Kinda surprised they didn't just split them back up into two models at this point.

I still run mine as two separate models and a gun (I have some old style metal Cadians). I also have some of the newer single base HWTs and never run them because I hate that single base so much.

I actually take some green stuff and build up a small mound where the spotter goes such that I can put an infantry dude base under him and place him in a hole made in the mound so the spotter looks like his base is part of the HWT base. Then when the model loses one of his two wounds I grab the spotter leaving just the gunner.

Yeah. Id use a re-roll on a 1-2. Then maybe roll better, maybe not.

Again. Hitting on 4's. If I didn't move. Too important of a roll for my nerves.

Edit- Ref: Shadowsword. Win big lose big

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Yeah. Id use a re-roll on a 1-2. Then maybe roll better, maybe not.

Again. Hitting on 4's. If I didn't move. Too important of a roll for my nerves.

When you do 2d6 damage, have AP-5 and wound most T8 on a 2+, you only need one or two hits to cripple most heavy vehicles.
Even when I roll badly, I get around 10-13D/turn with the main gun alone.
Also, its firepower can't be neutralized by a grot within 1".

How good is the normal Baneblade for tank hunting, compared to the Shadowsword?

 lash92 wrote:
How good is the normal Baneblade for tank hunting, compared to the Shadowsword?

Depending on sponson loadout, perfectly adequate. The Shadowsword averages 3.5 shots with 2d6 damage, and the Baneblade averages 2d6 shots with 3 damage, so only .5 damage different on average (the order you roll the dice and inflict damage doesn't actually matter, the averages are the same).

The Shadowsword is better in the following ways:
1) Wounding on a 2+ rather than a 3+ against most targets
2) Against Titanic units, hitting on a 3+
3) Against Titanic units, re-rolling to wound.

The Baneblade is better in the following ways:
1) Demolisher cannon secondary weapon
2) Autocannon secondary weapon (of questionable value against truly hard targets)

The Shadowsword excels at hunting tanks, and especially at hunting Titanic units, over the Baneblade, but the Baneblade is certainly adequate and up to the task.

I'm running a Brigade and a Spearhead at 1500 pts giving me 13 Command points. Assuming I use one to steal initiative that still leaves me with 12 Command Points for the next "5" go's. There is nothing worse than finishing the game with Command points left. What do people find are the most efficient uses of CPs with AM? Is interrupting a charging unit with conscripts worth 2 or would I be better off using the rerolls for number of shots my Manticores get on a 2D6. Its a pretty open question but I was wondering what has and has not worked for other players.

Also can someone post a link to a 8th edition AM vrs AM battlereport. I can't find one anywhere.

CaptainO wrote:
I'm running a Brigade and a Spearhead at 1500 pts giving me 13 Command points. Assuming I use one to steal initiative that still leaves me with 12 Command Points for the next "5" go's. There is nothing worse than finishing the game with Command points left. What do people find are the most efficient uses of CPs with AM? Is interrupting a charging unit with conscripts worth 2 or would I be better off using the rerolls for number of shots my Manticores get on a 2D6. Its a pretty open question but I was wondering what has and has not worked for other players.

Also can someone post a link to a 8th edition AM vrs AM battlereport. I can't find one anywhere.

I think the shooting phase is the most useful way to spend those CP.
E.g. for increasing the number of shots (see our Shadowsword discussion).
But they could also be useful if you need a D6 for rolling damage. (Lascanons)

But there are not 13 shooting phases per game so you need an alternate way for spending the CP. For example disrupting a charge.
I am really looking forward to our own Stratagems, which will definitely provide a nice way to spend all those CP which Imperial Guard can easily accumulate.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

The Shadowsword is better in the following ways:

The Shadowsword also has -2 extra AP (-5 total) over the baneblade cannon, which makes a huge difference when going after 3+ or 2+ targets. Overall the guns behave like you'd expect them to: the Shadowsword kills vehicles/monsters better, the Baneblade is more take-all-comers.

I don't think the Shadowsword is as unreliable as people are saying. For one, stowing away a couple command points to re-roll the shot count is a very good investment. Second, the Shadowsword may hit on 4+, but each hit is highly likely to cause damage thanks to S16 and AP-5. You only need 2 wounds to reliably cripple or kill heavy tanks, and against things that need more than 14 damage to kill, you get +1 to hit and re-rolls to wound.

I know 1d6 shots isn't everyone's cup of tea, but in the Shadowsword's case I think it's worth overlooking for the gun's other strengths.

Auto-passing morale denied genestealer cultists prime infiltration spots and won the game (along with Straken interrupting combat and slaying a flyrant).

KestrelM1 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

The Shadowsword is better in the following ways:

The Shadowsword also has -2 extra AP (-5 total) over the baneblade cannon, which makes a huge difference when going after 3+ or 2+ targets. Overall the guns behave like you'd expect them to: the Shadowsword kills vehicles/monsters better, the Baneblade is more take-all-comers.

I don't think the Shadowsword is as unreliable as people are saying. For one, stowing away a couple command points to re-roll the shot count is a very good investment. Second, the Shadowsword may hit on 4+, but each hit is highly likely to cause damage thanks to S16 and AP-5. You only need 2 wounds to reliably cripple or kill heavy tanks, and against things that need more than 14 damage to kill, you get +1 to hit and re-rolls to wound.

I know 1d6 shots isn't everyone's cup of tea, but in the Shadowsword's case I think it's worth overlooking for the gun's other strengths.

You're right! I did forget the AP value difference.

Most tanks are 3+, so the Baneblade has an additional 16% chance of failure which the Shadowsword does not suffer from.

You can use that reroll for:
First turn
Advancing
Psychic phase/deny the witch
Saves
Morale
Any critical moment, really!


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Also, rerolls are once per PHASE, not turn. Always remember that!

 lash92 wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
I'm running a Brigade and a Spearhead at 1500 pts giving me 13 Command points. Assuming I use one to steal initiative that still leaves me with 12 Command Points for the next "5" go's. There is nothing worse than finishing the game with Command points left. What do people find are the most efficient uses of CPs with AM? Is interrupting a charging unit with conscripts worth 2 or would I be better off using the rerolls for number of shots my Manticores get on a 2D6. Its a pretty open question but I was wondering what has and has not worked for other players.

Also can someone post a link to a 8th edition AM vrs AM battlereport. I can't find one anywhere.

I think the shooting phase is the most useful way to spend those CP.
E.g. for increasing the number of shots (see our Shadowsword discussion).
But they could also be useful if you need a D6 for rolling damage. (Lascanons)

But there are not 13 shooting phases per game so you need an alternate way for spending the CP. For example disrupting a charge.
I am really looking forward to our own Stratagems, which will definitely provide a nice way to spend all those CP which Imperial Guard can easily accumulate.

One reroll a phase does limit us. I'm thinking of running 3 astropaths to buff my armour saves so a few rerolls for the invariable Perils of the Warp would be handy. I assume its always worth rerolling one of the two perils dice rather than saving it for the D3 wounds (astropath 15pts for 3 wounds?!?!)

Assuming I use one CP in each Physic phase (highly unlikely) and one CP in each shooting phase (very likely with the amount of 2D6 shots or D6 damage weapons I'm running. I'll still have at least one "charge interruption" on me (2CP). Pretty sweet.

Hopefully we get the orbital bombardment similar to the Space Marines. I might end up using a CP reroll to ensure the area of the D6" bombardment is worthwhile.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I didn't notice this. Triple-MM tanks here we goooooooo!

When you have the option of potentially suffering 18 mortal wounds turn 1? I don't think you're sacrificing yourself hard enough, guardsman!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I still want to make the Valdor good. I am looking at making a Tank Destruction company as the 6th company for my regiment, and I have 2 Valdors. If they were 'good enough' then I could field a Shadowsword as the company command vehicle, and be awesome.

I think a Valdor is 'good enough' for whatever an internet stranger's opinion is worth, but I think it could do with some buffing. However, fielding your company would probably be silly outside huge games, because if I ran one of those tanks I would be happy enough.

 Aenarian wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I didn't notice this. Triple-MM tanks here we goooooooo!

When you have the option of potentially suffering 18 mortal wounds turn 1? I don't think you're sacrificing yourself hard enough, guardsman!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I still want to make the Valdor good. I am looking at making a Tank Destruction company as the 6th company for my regiment, and I have 2 Valdors. If they were 'good enough' then I could field a Shadowsword as the company command vehicle, and be awesome.

I think a Valdor is 'good enough' for whatever an internet stranger's opinion is worth, but I think it could do with some buffing. However, fielding your company would probably be silly outside huge games, because if I ran one of those tanks I would be happy enough.

I routinely field superheavy tank companies at 1500-2k. It's fun! And yes my opponents have fun too.

I quite like the LR Annihilator for my AT needs. It can be buffed by a Tank Commander and Fire and Shroud is a great order to keep them alive in those critical first turns. I'm going to run 2 of them with Pask in a Vanquisher in my next game supported by a Techpriest and Astropath. Pask will have a 2+ while the Annihilators will fire and shroud first turn.

Just played a game fielding my bullgryn again. Man they soak up wounds.

Had a 2 Heavy flamer chimera. 4 with slabshields and mauls.

Get them in cover for a +1 save. Crazy good!

Fun units too. They are still bigger than primaris marines.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Just played a game fielding my bullgryn again. Man they soak up wounds.

Had a 2 Heavy flamer chimera. 4 with slabshields and mauls.

Get them in cover for a +1 save. Crazy good!

Fun units too. They are still bigger than primaris marines.

If you give one the invuln shield, you'll be able to pick him for rolling saves if they hit you with something like a lascannon. Works until he takes a wound of course, then you lose the choice until he's dead. I think the best way to run them is half / half.

Wouldn't it be better to take 3 Bullgryns + Priest + Lord Commissar with Power fist?

I've run that + Astropath for +1 to saves

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

KestrelM1 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

The Shadowsword is better in the following ways:

The Shadowsword also has -2 extra AP (-5 total) over the baneblade cannon, which makes a huge difference when going after 3+ or 2+ targets. Overall the guns behave like you'd expect them to: the Shadowsword kills vehicles/monsters better, the Baneblade is more take-all-comers.

I don't think the Shadowsword is as unreliable as people are saying. For one, stowing away a couple command points to re-roll the shot count is a very good investment. Second, the Shadowsword may hit on 4+, but each hit is highly likely to cause damage thanks to S16 and AP-5. You only need 2 wounds to reliably cripple or kill heavy tanks, and against things that need more than 14 damage to kill, you get +1 to hit and re-rolls to wound.

I know 1d6 shots isn't everyone's cup of tea, but in the Shadowsword's case I think it's worth overlooking for the gun's other strengths.

You're right! I did forget the AP value difference.

Most tanks are 3+, so the Baneblade has an additional 16% chance of failure which the Shadowsword does not suffer from.

True, but you have to keep in mind that a LOT of things the Shadowsword wants to shoot at have at least a 5++, most notibly Knights. This means the precious ap-5 will do just as much as ap-2 (most super-heavies still only have a 3+ save, oddly enough).

With such a high-powered shot, you can bet your ass your opponent is gonna re-roll one of the saves it has to make.




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Aenarian wrote:

 Zuri Prime wrote:
Hey guys, if you were to run a Leman Russ Conqueror, what hull weapon and sponsors would you bring on it? Heavy bolters all around?

3 Plasma Cannons because I can.

Wow that´s a good weapon option choice. That for the LR Annihilator and you field a true Annihilator.

rhinoceraids wrote:Hope the codex helps russes a bit. Maybe?

Wyvern, manticore, basilisk are all decent at holding an objective in your back end.

Russes need a lot help.

In the last editions on average i got 1 auto-hit with a small template and 3 auto-hits with a large template.
Now tranferring those numbers to 8th we either need
- the rule "hits automatically" (that would need to be added to any "previous template-weapon" and would make the flamers less special)
- or double the number of shot as we acutally have.

Then with the battlecannon you get 3.5 auto-hits or 2D6 shots, which translate to 7 on average and with a BS of 4+ again 3.5 hits. Which is very close to the average 3 hits of previous versions.

The weapons got way better against tough single models but hordes won´t fear them.

May be 1 D3 per starting 5 models in the target unit (for all weapons that had a large template, for small templates it could be 1d3 per starting 10 models). A 50 conscipts blob would have to cope with 10 d3, average 20 shots or 10 hits.
A Swarmlord would only suffer from 1 D3 shots or 1 hit.
Sounds very balanced to me. Thoughts?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I routinely field superheavy tank companies at 1500-2k. It's fun! And yes my opponents have fun too.

Well, as long as everyone's happy there's nothing to complain about. I probably wouldn't because I enjoy the smaller units far more, but hey, each to his or her own.

Psykers are amazing. Just used 8 astropaths for 120pts in a 2k game. Over the 6 turns they too 4 wounds from a stormraven, 5 from a dreadnought, 3 from a land raider, 4 from an imperial knight, three from a predator and two from Guilliman. The game ended with me tabling him.

They're not even that easy to kill with three wounds and character protection

Fellow Guard commanders, question:

What in the flying !@#$ are we going to do against a Magnus?

With the new CSM codex, he can get a 3++, rerolling 1's. While I'm getting flashbacks to 7th deamons with their 2++ rerollable save, let's discuss on what we can do.

First of all I don't think we should ignore our own psykers against him. While he has a wooping +2 to cast, even Magnus will get a meager 6 or 7 on their total cast roll now and then. Easy enough to deny especially with a command re-roll at the ready.

But what else? I guess we can send Straken in.... spits on the ground 'Eh, Been there, Seen it, Killed it.' casually charges Magnus alone

 lash92 wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to take 3 Bullgryns + Priest + Lord Commissar with Power fist?

At that point I find I'm really investing in the bullgryn. Besides I want them crammed in a chimera going towards something. Besides they are there to help protect the squishy humans.

Really fun units. Highly recommended.

Doctoralex wrote:
Fellow Guard commanders, question:

What in the flying !@#$ are we going to do against a Magnus?

With the new CSM codex, he can get a 3++, rerolling 1's. While I'm getting flashbacks to 7th deamons with their 2++ rerollable save, let's discuss on what we can do.

First of all I don't think we should ignore our own psykers against him. While he has a wooping +2 to cast, even Magnus will get a meager 6 or 7 on their total cast roll now and then. Easy enough to deny especially with a command re-roll at the ready.

But what else? I guess we can send Straken in.... spits on the ground 'Eh, Been there, Seen it, Killed it.' casually charges Magnus alone

Full disclosure, I havent played against magnus yet so am just tossing ideas out there with no real experience. A few attempts at mathing out the firepower needed to drop him suggests you can't do it cost effectively. Two Hydras get a whopping 2 damage in on him per round of shooting. I thought maybe hellfire boltgun rounds from deathwatch might work but you need a stupid number of them.

That said, I suppose you could take a large number of conscripts and create a lattice of guardsmen 18" deep to delay magnus from smiting/assaulting the good stuff while you try to kill the rest of his army. Not familiar with the other chaos powers so maybe he has a way to get around that.

Another option might be to take nothing but infantry/scions/hwts so there are no good targets for magnus to beat on that could possibly let him earn his points back. Dropping in the scions as far away from him as possible while you kill the rest of his force.

Failing all that, maybe a Culexus or two? Probably won't kill him, but keep charging magnus and force him to hit on 6's and either he falls back preventing him from charging or he has to take the occasional damage from the Culexus in melee staying in combat.

Comedy option: 10 cyclops demolition vehicles.

How many powers can he deny a turn? Cos 2 primaris psykers and 8 astropaths (in a vanguard detachment) might stack a decent number of mortal wounds on him while having the chance to deny a few of his powers.

I think a Culexus and a Primaris Psyker and Astropath are probably required. That would also be an excellent time for a Vindicare and 10 Ratlings to do their thing.

What is his toughness?

What is he, T8 18 Wounds? 2+ / 3++?

If he is T8 then damn, otherwise I'd say Wyverns. Each one does 2W / turn (against T7)