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 lash92 wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
In all of the games (which aren't many just saying though...) that I played my shadowsword except for one he got wiped by alpha strike T1. What saved him in the one game? I played him as Talleran and ambushed him. He got one turn of awesome shooting and then was promptly put down the next turn...

That's what I was worrying about... so basically take 2-3 Russes for the price.

So what's beside superheavys and manticore (im really not an artillery guy) or best way dealing with Mortarion and Magnus?
I have no problems in taking some allies. (Preferably AdMech)

My buddy last game used the -1 to hit Morty then used a statagem on his bodyguard termies so I couldn't target them. Forcing me to shoot at -1 at Morty then on a 2+ the hits went to his terminators, who were in cover no less. I had 2 battle tanks and a baneblade shoot at them and did fairly well. If you're Cadian, it should be no problem. But I used the reroll all failed hit and wound rolls on the baneblade stratagem and did enough that Mortarion was pretty wounded when he hit my lines. Then I KOd him next turn. Honestly, if you are playing guard you should have plenty of firepower to deal with Death Guard.

Cyclop demolition vehicles love mortarion and his friends all close together 6" blast that hits all targets in range that you either trigger or have a 50% chance of triggering if they destroy it. And lots of mortal wounds to everyone that automatically hit. -1 to hit who cares!

I used a cyclops in that game, but I won't be using them anymore now that they went up by 50%

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
In all of the games (which aren't many just saying though...) that I played my shadowsword except for one he got wiped by alpha strike T1. What saved him in the one game? I played him as Talleran and ambushed him. He got one turn of awesome shooting and then was promptly put down the next turn...

That's what I was worrying about... so basically take 2-3 Russes for the price.

So what's beside superheavys and manticore (im really not an artillery guy) or best way dealing with Mortarion and Magnus?
I have no problems in taking some allies. (Preferably AdMech)

My buddy last game used the -1 to hit Morty then used a statagem on his bodyguard termies so I couldn't target them. Forcing me to shoot at -1 at Morty then on a 2+ the hits went to his terminators, who were in cover no less. I had 2 battle tanks and a baneblade shoot at them and did fairly well. If you're Cadian, it should be no problem. But I used the reroll all failed hit and wound rolls on the baneblade stratagem and did enough that Mortarion was pretty wounded when he hit my lines. Then I KOd him next turn. Honestly, if you are playing guard you should have plenty of firepower to deal with Death Guard.

Since I'm playing fully mechanised I'm playing Tallarn.

Also it wasn't Death Guard it was Chaos soup.
IIRC his list contained something along the lines of:
- Magnus + Mortarion
- 40 brimstone for bubblewrap + changling for -1 to hit
- 3-4 squads obliterators

It was my first time playing against that kind of list and I made some mistakes with positioning my stuff, so he could lock multiple things up in combat easily.
I had 3 Tanks, including 2 Commanders + 3 Lascanon Sentinels but it just didn't felt enough to counter those two big boys ....

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Ecdain wrote:

 exliontamer wrote:
I am possibly going to participate in a League that is starting Week 1 at 500 pts and running the ITC Simplified Scenario 1. I am looking for some help because I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get the most out of my 500 pts. The later points values are no problem for me. But since I run a lot of artillery and such, and that stuff is way too expensive to include at such a low point value, I am at a loss. I don't have piles of infantry either. But I do have a fair number of heavy weapons crews (mostly lascannon and autocannon).

Any suggestions? For reference I will likely be facing Marines (Imperial or Chaos) or Nids, since that is what is heavily played at my store. Thanks.

2 x company commander

4 x 10 infantry w/ lascannnon

2 x 3 mortar HWT

498/500

I'm not sure what you meant by "piles of infantry" but you seem to have a decent amount of am so I'm hoping you have 6 squads of infantry somewhere. Only need 4 for this though

You've actually still got a 134pts spare there, so he could take that entire list, a basilisk, and thow plasma on almost all those infantry squads to boot and still be at 500pts.

Thanks for all the input guys. I may flip a couple things around...run some autocannons instead of two squads of mortars for instance...but this seems pretty solid. I just can't wait until I get to higher points values so I can run all my Chimeras and artillery pieces. Vroom vroom, pew pew.

 lash92 wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
In all of the games (which aren't many just saying though...) that I played my shadowsword except for one he got wiped by alpha strike T1. What saved him in the one game? I played him as Talleran and ambushed him. He got one turn of awesome shooting and then was promptly put down the next turn...

That's what I was worrying about... so basically take 2-3 Russes for the price.

So what's beside superheavys and manticore (im really not an artillery guy) or best way dealing with Mortarion and Magnus?
I have no problems in taking some allies. (Preferably AdMech)

My buddy last game used the -1 to hit Morty then used a statagem on his bodyguard termies so I couldn't target them. Forcing me to shoot at -1 at Morty then on a 2+ the hits went to his terminators, who were in cover no less. I had 2 battle tanks and a baneblade shoot at them and did fairly well. If you're Cadian, it should be no problem. But I used the reroll all failed hit and wound rolls on the baneblade stratagem and did enough that Mortarion was pretty wounded when he hit my lines. Then I KOd him next turn. Honestly, if you are playing guard you should have plenty of firepower to deal with Death Guard.

Since I'm playing fully mechanised I'm playing Tallarn.

Also it wasn't Death Guard it was Chaos soup.
IIRC his list contained something along the lines of:
- Magnus + Mortarion
- 40 brimstone for bubblewrap + changling for -1 to hit
- 3-4 squads obliterators

It was my first time playing against that kind of list and I made some mistakes with positioning my stuff, so he could lock multiple things up in combat easily.
I had 3 Tanks, including 2 Commanders + 3 Lascanon Sentinels but it just didn't felt enough to counter those two big boys ....

Yeah well that's kind of a tournament list and it sounds like you have a TAC list. Tallarn isn't going to help much against a list like that because you can only retreat so far. You have to really min max against a chaos soup list. It's kind of obnoxious for friendly games, in my opinion. Anyways, I have run 4 battle tanks, a Basilisk, and a Wyvern + cyclops and done some significant damage. However, I used Cadian and used all those anti chaos Stratagems and HQ relics. If I hadn't done that I'd have been overwhelmed. Aerial Spotter on a Wyvern can really help against things like Magnus & Morty because you're fishing for those failed 3+ saves and with reroll to hit and to wound the Wyvern seems to be decent. This is where the guard struggle, probably the only place. Our sources of mortal wounds were few to begin with, if you didn't spam, and now our psykers are more expensive. I used the cyclops but now it went up 50% and don't see me using that anymore. I guess I'll get to see what the psychic phase for Necrons and Tau must feel like soon. Just removing models until the phase is over.

I am looking to put together a 1000 point catachan list and was hoping to get some advice on one. I don’t have any experience playing guard and am putting this together for a friend. Does anyone have a rough list on what I should be looking for and is all catachan even viable? I apologize if this isn’t the best place to ask this question, if there’s a better place please point me in that direction

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I used a cyclops in that game, but I won't be using them anymore now that they went up by 50%

They did? That sucks. I've had the models for years, but at least it was fun to use them in the brief window of time they were actually good.

 exliontamer wrote:
Vroom vroom, pew pew.

The holiest words in the Guard lexicon

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
In all of the games (which aren't many just saying though...) that I played my shadowsword except for one he got wiped by alpha strike T1. What saved him in the one game? I played him as Talleran and ambushed him. He got one turn of awesome shooting and then was promptly put down the next turn...

That's what I was worrying about... so basically take 2-3 Russes for the price.

So what's beside superheavys and manticore (im really not an artillery guy) or best way dealing with Mortarion and Magnus?
I have no problems in taking some allies. (Preferably AdMech)

My buddy last game used the -1 to hit Morty then used a statagem on his bodyguard termies so I couldn't target them. Forcing me to shoot at -1 at Morty then on a 2+ the hits went to his terminators, who were in cover no less. I had 2 battle tanks and a baneblade shoot at them and did fairly well. If you're Cadian, it should be no problem. But I used the reroll all failed hit and wound rolls on the baneblade stratagem and did enough that Mortarion was pretty wounded when he hit my lines. Then I KOd him next turn. Honestly, if you are playing guard you should have plenty of firepower to deal with Death Guard.

Since I'm playing fully mechanised I'm playing Tallarn.

Also it wasn't Death Guard it was Chaos soup.
IIRC his list contained something along the lines of:
- Magnus + Mortarion
- 40 brimstone for bubblewrap + changling for -1 to hit
- 3-4 squads obliterators

It was my first time playing against that kind of list and I made some mistakes with positioning my stuff, so he could lock multiple things up in combat easily.
I had 3 Tanks, including 2 Commanders + 3 Lascanon Sentinels but it just didn't felt enough to counter those two big boys ....

Yeah well that's kind of a tournament list and it sounds like you have a TAC list. Tallarn isn't going to help much against a list like that because you can only retreat so far. You have to really min max against a chaos soup list. It's kind of obnoxious for friendly games, in my opinion. Anyways, I have run 4 battle tanks, a Basilisk, and a Wyvern + cyclops and done some significant damage. However, I used Cadian and used all those anti chaos Stratagems and HQ relics. If I hadn't done that I'd have been overwhelmed. Aerial Spotter on a Wyvern can really help against things like Magnus & Morty because you're fishing for those failed 3+ saves and with reroll to hit and to wound the Wyvern seems to be decent. This is where the guard struggle, probably the only place. Our sources of mortal wounds were few to begin with, if you didn't spam, and now our psykers are more expensive. I used the cyclops but now it went up 50% and don't see me using that anymore. I guess I'll get to see what the psychic phase for Necrons and Tau must feel like soon. Just removing models until the phase is over.

Yeah that was a tournament list, but I was informed of it and agreed to it, because my buddy needed to test the list.
So that's not a problem

Yeah Tallarn really wasn't helping in this case... but in games versus other armies it helped really a lot. Beeing able to zip around the battlefield.
But maybe I should try another regiment?


Also do you think it's viable to field an armoured regiment without infantry? If not, how many (mechanised) squads do I need at least?

Just curious but what does everybody like putting on their sergeants? I've been debating whether or not to use boltguns or bolt pistols or just saving the point and going laspistol.

lash92 wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
In all of the games (which aren't many just saying though...) that I played my shadowsword except for one he got wiped by alpha strike T1. What saved him in the one game? I played him as Talleran and ambushed him. He got one turn of awesome shooting and then was promptly put down the next turn...

That's what I was worrying about... so basically take 2-3 Russes for the price.

So what's beside superheavys and manticore (im really not an artillery guy) or best way dealing with Mortarion and Magnus?
I have no problems in taking some allies. (Preferably AdMech)

My buddy last game used the -1 to hit Morty then used a statagem on his bodyguard termies so I couldn't target them. Forcing me to shoot at -1 at Morty then on a 2+ the hits went to his terminators, who were in cover no less. I had 2 battle tanks and a baneblade shoot at them and did fairly well. If you're Cadian, it should be no problem. But I used the reroll all failed hit and wound rolls on the baneblade stratagem and did enough that Mortarion was pretty wounded when he hit my lines. Then I KOd him next turn. Honestly, if you are playing guard you should have plenty of firepower to deal with Death Guard.

Since I'm playing fully mechanised I'm playing Tallarn.

Also it wasn't Death Guard it was Chaos soup.
IIRC his list contained something along the lines of:
- Magnus + Mortarion
- 40 brimstone for bubblewrap + changling for -1 to hit
- 3-4 squads obliterators

It was my first time playing against that kind of list and I made some mistakes with positioning my stuff, so he could lock multiple things up in combat easily.
I had 3 Tanks, including 2 Commanders + 3 Lascanon Sentinels but it just didn't felt enough to counter those two big boys ....

Yeah well that's kind of a tournament list and it sounds like you have a TAC list. Tallarn isn't going to help much against a list like that because you can only retreat so far. You have to really min max against a chaos soup list. It's kind of obnoxious for friendly games, in my opinion. Anyways, I have run 4 battle tanks, a Basilisk, and a Wyvern + cyclops and done some significant damage. However, I used Cadian and used all those anti chaos Stratagems and HQ relics. If I hadn't done that I'd have been overwhelmed. Aerial Spotter on a Wyvern can really help against things like Magnus & Morty because you're fishing for those failed 3+ saves and with reroll to hit and to wound the Wyvern seems to be decent. This is where the guard struggle, probably the only place. Our sources of mortal wounds were few to begin with, if you didn't spam, and now our psykers are more expensive. I used the cyclops but now it went up 50% and don't see me using that anymore. I guess I'll get to see what the psychic phase for Necrons and Tau must feel like soon. Just removing models until the phase is over.

Yeah that was a tournament list, but I was informed of it and agreed to it, because my buddy needed to test the list.
So that's not a problem

Yeah Tallarn really wasn't helping in this case... but in games versus other armies it helped really a lot. Beeing able to zip around the battlefield.
But maybe I should try another regiment?


Also do you think it's viable to field an armoured regiment without infantry? If not, how many (mechanised) squads do I need at least?

I've determined that Tallarn isn't as valuable as I thought initially. I've gone to Catachan pretty early and haven't looked back. The ability to reroll the # of shots for the battle cannon is a game changer. I've played enough games with various regiments now and I stand by it. UNLESS you are playing Chaos. Then Cadian is superior. But against all other opponents, Catachan is hands down the best all rounder. +1 leadership for having officers around, which you'll have. S4 which is surprisingly legit, especially when you give them power axes. And, of course, the reroll # of shots for randomly generated weapons. My lists have generally turned into 4xInfantry Squads w/1 or 2 Chimera, 1xValk with las cannon, MRPs, 2xHeavy Bs and 3xBullgryn , 1 Tank Commander w/battle cannon las cannon and heavy bolters, 2 battle tanks with battle cannon heavy bolters, 1 tank with punisher and 3 heavy flamers (don't forget the track guards!), a Wyvern, and a Basilisk, and last but not least, SGT Harker. With points I try to add some rough riders and an Eversor assassin to tie up back field units.

My general strategy is to castle up as tight as possible with 2 infantry squads screening and pushing out the deep strike bubble, ensuring at LEAST 4" between them and anything else to prevent consolidation. Then I just unleash hell for a turn or 2 before getting mobile. Sometimes I'll toss the chimeras, fireball russ, and valk up a flank to apply pressure. Everything else usually stays put. Bottom line, 40 infantry typically seems to be the sweet spot where I'll have a handful of guys left at the end of the game. I've also used command squads with a banner and las cannon team for another +1 leadership added to the bubble and a BS3+ las cannon. With all the other threats on the table, nobody cares about a command squad of 4 dudes.

Stus67 wrote:Just curious but what does everybody like putting on their sergeants? I've been debating whether or not to use boltguns or bolt pistols or just saving the point and going laspistol.

I put boltguns on all of my plasma las cannon squads. It is absolutely worth it as they typically aren't using FRFSRF anyway. Frontline squads usually have no upgrades although I've been planning on experimenting with power weapons since I run Catachan.

gungo wrote:
Cyclop demolition vehicles love mortarion and his friends all close together 6" blast that hits all targets in range that you either trigger or have a 50% chance of triggering if they destroy it. And lots of mortal wounds to everyone that automatically hit. -1 to hit who cares!

Well, it's not 6" ot's D6" I know because I always end up burning command points looking to hit more stuff or sometimes less of my own lol. But at 60 points each I am only going to take mine is games where I need to burn points to soften my army a bit based on opponents. They were barely worth it on occasion at 40 but at 60 it's insane.

 Colonel Cross wrote:


I've determined that Tallarn isn't as valuable as I thought initially. I've gone to Catachan pretty early and haven't looked back. The ability to reroll the # of shots for the battle cannon is a game changer. I've played enough games with various regiments now and I stand by it. UNLESS you are playing Chaos. Then Cadian is superior. But against all other opponents, Catachan is hands down the best all rounder. +1 leadership for having officers around, which you'll have. S4 which is surprisingly legit, especially when you give them power axes. And, of course, the reroll # of shots for randomly generated weapons. My lists have generally turned into 4xInfantry Squads w/1 or 2 Chimera, 1xValk with las cannon, MRPs, 2xHeavy Bs and 3xBullgryn , 1 Tank Commander w/battle cannon las cannon and heavy bolters, 2 battle tanks with battle cannon heavy bolters, 1 tank with punisher and 3 heavy flamers (don't forget the track guards!), a Wyvern, and a Basilisk, and last but not least, SGT Harker. With points I try to add some rough riders and an Eversor assassin to tie up back field units.

My general strategy is to castle up as tight as possible with 2 infantry squads screening and pushing out the deep strike bubble, ensuring at LEAST 4" between them and anything else to prevent consolidation. Then I just unleash hell for a turn or 2 before getting mobile. Sometimes I'll toss the chimeras, fireball russ, and valk up a flank to apply pressure. Everything else usually stays put. Bottom line, 40 infantry typically seems to be the sweet spot where I'll have a handful of guys left at the end of the game. I've also used command squads with a banner and las cannon team for another +1 leadership added to the bubble and a BS3+ las cannon. With all the other threats on the table, nobody cares about a command squad of 4 dudes.

Sounds like an interesting concept, I think I'll give it a try next game

Edit: what do give your Chimeras? Flamers?

I converted my Chimera over a decade ago with the Predator turrets so I rock autocannon turrets and either heavy Bolters or heavy flamers in the hull

 Stus67 wrote:
Just curious but what does everybody like putting on their sergeants? I've been debating whether or not to use boltguns or bolt pistols or just saving the point and going laspistol.

Bolters, it just comes up way more than you think it would, and even in an infantry army adds up to maybe 10-15pts tops. They're usually very handy for chipping off a final wound and honestly, the main use I have is hunting lighter vehicles with them. Having a cheap source of fire that can reach out 24" and hurt most vehicles/monsters on a 5+ is nice and no one expects it, and it's the only 24" range weapon sergeants can get period, so it's not like you have much of a choice for shooty squads. It won't do miracles, but it will add up over time and I feel they always make their investment back. Almost every game has at least one instance of the opponent saying "I can't believe that stupid sergeant hit that shot".

I like plasma pistols on officers and stormtroopers. Most other units can use them but line infantry take too much heat to make full use of them and vets it really depends on what kind of squad I'm taking.

As for melee weapons, I really like chainswords, that extra attack is nice and it's free. From there, usually officers get powerfists, and squads that I expect to actually get into melee and have it matter will often get a power sword (Catachans) or Power Axe (everyone else) The melee weapons can be incredibly handy, but it's very easy to spend too many points on them. You really need to consider how your list works and think about who will make the most use of them. Officers almost always survive to the end and get involved in counterattacks, so they're the natural first choice. My order of importance from there goes Commissars=Priests>Vet squads>Stormtroopers>Infantry squads

Ive gotten a few more competitive games under my belt and this is my rather heavily biased analysis:

I've tried out infantry heavy lists to screen my heavy support vehicles: Hate it. I really don't care for static armies and stuffing yourself into a corner is just dull in the best care scenario (the one where you've already savaged your opponent with a solid first turn of shooting).

Mechanized is still really solid. Tallarn lends itself to this well as any movement shenanigans are a worth taking. My application so far is SWSs with plasma in Gryphonne pattern Chimeras (triple HB loadout) skidding around with Company Commanders backing them up. So toothy but also so well priced you can really spread the threat around and not have too many eggs in one basket.

LRBTs are doing some serious heavy-lifting now. I run them cheap, like just turret and HB hull right now, I run at least 5 of them as single spearhead choices. My current top picks are the stock LRBT and the Executioner. I am waffling between Cadian and Catachan right now. I was REALLY leaning into Catachan but the Relic of Lost Cadia will really pull through when facing Magnus+Mortarion, plus the static 1 re-roll and the Cadian strategem are nothing to sniff at. Going to keep play testing these as the mobility suffers under Cadia, but you're paying the extra 50 point Harker tax if you want to run Catachans effectively.

Lastly here is an abstract of what I'm going to be running for my 2K in the next few weeks. I plan to tweak it so would really appreciate any thoughts on it (should I shoe-horn in some cyclops?)

Battalion - Militarum Tempestus:

HQ
Tempestor RoC

Primaris Psycher (Nightshroud and Shield) - should I switch these powers for something else?

Troops
5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

Vangaurd - Tallarn

HQ
Company Commander

Elites
SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

Fast Attack
Hellhound Squadron
2x Hellhound - Ambush with these guys and maybe a SWS and Commander if needs be

Dedicated Transport

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Spearhead Detachment - Cadian

HQ
Company Commander (Warlord)
Relic of Lost Cadia

Heavy Support
Basilisk Squadron
2x Basilisk

LRBT - Battle Cannon

LRBT - Battle Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

I'm loving that list. I'm also trying out mechanized tallarn, so I'm eager to hear how its working for you.

Just a few nitpick.

If all you're running in your chimeras are SWS don't you think tauroxes would be a better choice? Similar survivability, but much cheaper, and arguably 2 autocannons > 3 heavy bolters? I dunno. There's a discussion to be had there.

While hellhounds are pretty good in any case, they don't benefit at all from being tallarn. That's why I'm going to try out sentinels (armored and non) as my tallarn fast attack options. Could be good. Could be trash. But if any regiment can make sentinels work, its tallarn.

My god, that is so much armor for an opponent to chew through! You just open yourself up to horde CC armies or deep strike on your tanks with no screen. Definitely a brutal list!

More Dakka wrote:Ive gotten a few more competitive games under my belt and this is my rather heavily biased analysis:

I've tried out infantry heavy lists to screen my heavy support vehicles: Hate it. I really don't care for static armies and stuffing yourself into a corner is just dull in the best care scenario (the one where you've already savaged your opponent with a solid first turn of shooting).

Mechanized is still really solid. Tallarn lends itself to this well as any movement shenanigans are a worth taking. My application so far is SWSs with plasma in Gryphonne pattern Chimeras (triple HB loadout) skidding around with Company Commanders backing them up. So toothy but also so well priced you can really spread the threat around and not have too many eggs in one basket.

LRBTs are doing some serious heavy-lifting now. I run them cheap, like just turret and HB hull right now, I run at least 5 of them as single spearhead choices. My current top picks are the stock LRBT and the Executioner. I am waffling between Cadian and Catachan right now. I was REALLY leaning into Catachan but the Relic of Lost Cadia will really pull through when facing Magnus+Mortarion, plus the static 1 re-roll and the Cadian strategem are nothing to sniff at. Going to keep play testing these as the mobility suffers under Cadia, but you're paying the extra 50 point Harker tax if you want to run Catachans effectively.

Lastly here is an abstract of what I'm going to be running for my 2K in the next few weeks. I plan to tweak it so would really appreciate any thoughts on it (should I shoe-horn in some cyclops?)

Battalion - Militarum Tempestus:

HQ
Tempestor RoC

Primaris Psycher (Nightshroud and Shield) - should I switch these powers for something else?

Troops
5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

Vangaurd - Tallarn

HQ
Company Commander

Elites
SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

Fast Attack
Hellhound Squadron
2x Hellhound - Ambush with these guys and maybe a SWS and Commander if needs be

Dedicated Transport

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Spearhead Detachment - Cadian

HQ
Company Commander (Warlord)
Relic of Lost Cadia

Heavy Support
Basilisk Squadron
2x Basilisk

LRBT - Battle Cannon

LRBT - Battle Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

More Dakka wrote:Ive gotten a few more competitive games under my belt and this is my rather heavily biased analysis:

I've tried out infantry heavy lists to screen my heavy support vehicles: Hate it. I really don't care for static armies and stuffing yourself into a corner is just dull in the best care scenario (the one where you've already savaged your opponent with a solid first turn of shooting).

Mechanized is still really solid. Tallarn lends itself to this well as any movement shenanigans are a worth taking. My application so far is SWSs with plasma in Gryphonne pattern Chimeras (triple HB loadout) skidding around with Company Commanders backing them up. So toothy but also so well priced you can really spread the threat around and not have too many eggs in one basket.

LRBTs are doing some serious heavy-lifting now. I run them cheap, like just turret and HB hull right now, I run at least 5 of them as single spearhead choices. My current top picks are the stock LRBT and the Executioner. I am waffling between Cadian and Catachan right now. I was REALLY leaning into Catachan but the Relic of Lost Cadia will really pull through when facing Magnus+Mortarion, plus the static 1 re-roll and the Cadian strategem are nothing to sniff at. Going to keep play testing these as the mobility suffers under Cadia, but you're paying the extra 50 point Harker tax if you want to run Catachans effectively.

Lastly here is an abstract of what I'm going to be running for my 2K in the next few weeks. I plan to tweak it so would really appreciate any thoughts on it (should I shoe-horn in some cyclops?)

Battalion - Militarum Tempestus:

HQ
Tempestor RoC

Primaris Psycher (Nightshroud and Shield) - should I switch these powers for something else?

Troops
5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

5x Tempestors - 2x Plasma, Plasma Pistol

Vangaurd - Tallarn

HQ
Company Commander

Elites
SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

SWS 3x Plas

Fast Attack
Hellhound Squadron
2x Hellhound - Ambush with these guys and maybe a SWS and Commander if needs be

Dedicated Transport

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, Hull HB

Spearhead Detachment - Cadian

HQ
Company Commander (Warlord)
Relic of Lost Cadia

Heavy Support
Basilisk Squadron
2x Basilisk

LRBT - Battle Cannon

LRBT - Battle Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

LRBT - Executioner Cannon

I like your list and since I got some experience with (Tallarn) Mech I want add/ask somethings:

1) I don't know if cyclops are worth it, they just got 50% cheaper with CA.

2) You are lacking troops; was this a problem for you in some games, e.g. regarding objectives?

3) For your primaris I would go with shield + something offensive (maybe maelstrom).

4) Have you played against deepstriking / CC based armies yet? Since you are missing screens entirely they could be quite a pain.

5) In conjunction with 4): Add some scout sentinels. Their scout move is key to minimise the deepstriking effectiveness and since your Tallarn you can fit them out how you want.

6) Have you played against hordes so far? Imo you are lacking anti horde, so maybe some punishers or Wyvern?

7) Depending on how agressive you are playing with your Russes, maybe switch some BT for conquerors. For +3pts you get reroll to hit within 24".

So yeah just my 2 cents

ThePorcupine wrote:
While hellhounds are pretty good in any case, they don't benefit at all from being tallarn. That's why I'm going to try out sentinels (armored and non) as my tallarn fast attack options. Could be good. Could be trash. But if any regiment can make sentinels work, its tallarn.

That's not entirely true, if he gives them a HB But yeah they would benefit more from being Catachan.

Regarding Sentinels: Haven't played the armoured version yet, but the scout is crucial for deepstrike denial. And you can give them every weapon as tallarn (I prefer Lascanon / HB).

I think I lost the thread but:

Be careful with Baneblades, they get alpha-struck fairly easy by "casual" players. The same points in Russes is better if you can screen them.

@lash92
I am a little hesitant to give a scout sentinel an expensive weapon. I figured they would be great harassment units, but not pull much weight. How well do they preform for you?
I love the model... and have +8 of them, would love to be able to make a list around them.

Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers have been MVPs every time I use them. Cheap enough that you don't care about them dying, fast enough that you can get in range to flame where you feel like it.

Nurgle00 wrote:
@lash92
I am a little hesitant to give a scout sentinel an expensive weapon. I figured they would be great harassment units, but not pull much weight. How well do they preform for you?
I love the model... and have +8 of them, would love to be able to make a list around them.

I think they are one of those units, for which its hard to measure their effectiveness in numbers. In my experience they are incredibly good at the two rules which I have for them:

1) Deepstrike Denial via their Scout Move.

2) Beeing a nuisance and so drawing attention. Nobody really cares about getting shot with a Multilaser, but a Lascanon it's a entirely different story.
Also think about that way:
- since the Multilaser is 10 pts you are basically just paying 10 pts for your ML/LC
- Every shot in sentinel is a shot less in your heavy armour, so actually you want your enemy to shoot them.

But keep in mind, that this only really applies to tallarn, because hitting on 5+ on the move is kind of meh ^^

I hope I could help

The thing with Sentinels is, they fall very low on your opponents Target priority list. Tallarn or Catachan are really the only ones worth taking though. Obviously scout heavy flamers are the only option for Catachan.

With regards to baneblades being alpha struck by even casual players, I haven't seen it. Probably just depends on your meta. I never field a baneblade without tons of other armor. And with double firing battlecannons I don't really care if they shoot at my baneblade because that thing can use Stratagems and do some charging to apply pressure on my enemy and let my tanks and artillery do all the killing.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I think I lost the thread but:

Be careful with Baneblades, they get alpha-struck fairly easy by "casual" players. The same points in Russes is better if you can screen them.

Would you care to expand, even if it is with anecdotal evidence?

I have had the kit sitting on my shelf for a bit and I am considering throwing a Baneblade chassis in my 2k list for an upcoming tournament, but I am a bit nervous about the points sink. I was planning to do a Doomhammer and hide a good chunk of my HWS and support characters in it in case I don't get T1. I settled on the Doomhammer because I think it's a going to be good against what I will likely face (a lot of marines of all flavors in my store...so LRs, Replusors, Stormravens, etc), and I would run it as Catachan to get the most out of my 2d6 shots. I can see the possibility of it being "alpha struck"...but I also feel like it's just as likely that my opponent spends the entire turn shooting at the Baneblade and can't get the last couple wounds off...which is both de-moralizing and protects the rest of my armor/dudes. It's a tough call.

Anyone have other experiences? Does a Doomhammer make sense? Or is it just straight up better to ignore the transport/firing deck option and run a Hellhammer if I am going Catachan anyway?

A doomhammer is fine.

And the issue with Baneblades as a points sink is they're very... well, strange.

I've a list of pretty much everything that's ever one-shotted one, and it's very very extensive (a bunch of different units, sometimes with stratagems, sometimes with characters).

Some examples from T1 include Slaanesh Chaos Terminators with Combi-Plasma next to a Combi-Melta Lord with Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony, 3 Neutron Laser Onager Dunecrawlers next to Cawl, charging Raven Guard Assault Centurions after having an Inquisitor's Telethesia power cast onto the superheavy, etc.

I admit to not screening them well, so if you do that will reduce the threats by a lot. But even so...

Hey all, I kinda missed the party, but it looks like conscripts got massively nerfed. Anything else really important happen with new releases? Are conscript/commissars much worse or still useful?

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
Hey all, I kinda missed the party, but it looks like conscripts got massively nerfed. Anything else really important happen with new releases? Are conscript/commissars much worse or still useful?

Conscripts are dead. They + Commissars got nerfed and they now cost as much as normal guardsmen.
Leman Russes are the new hotness, since you can fire your turret twice if you move under half of your movement.

 lash92 wrote:

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
Hey all, I kinda missed the party, but it looks like conscripts got massively nerfed. Anything else really important happen with new releases? Are conscript/commissars much worse or still useful?

Conscripts are dead. They + Commissars got nerfed and they now cost as much as normal guardsmen.
Leman Russes are the new hotness, since you can fire your turret twice if you move under half of your movement.

Perfectly fine by me, since I run primarily tanks anyways, but it looks like that it's better just to take normal infantry for screening? Did anything else get nerfed?