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 ShredderShards wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
I enjoy taking at least 1 ghostkeel in most of lists. The high T, - to hit and infiltrate abilities combined make a versatile unit. Mine usually don't do a lot of damage but they are annoying to my opponent and provide a big anti deepstrike bubble.

I have one in my list for a GT this weekend. I'll post up so battle reports after and let you know how it does.

thanks man, I'd appreciate it.

Well didn't do as well as I'd hoped to. Ended the GT 2-4. The ghostkeel was either effective distraction or completely ignored by my opponents. It did get me recon and linebreaker several times so having it got points but it did not kill much. One guy did was two turns of 3 ravagers firing at it so that was fun but overall I think more stealth suits would have done the same job and been cheaper.

I will say I think my ion rifle Pathfinders were MVPs. Most opponents were surprised by their damage ability

Untill the stealth drones get charictor keyword style protection ghostkeels are stuck in a rather meh place of not survivable enough to be able to be used aggressively enough to bully your opponents but don't do enough damage to not be ignorable.

4 fusion ghostkeels are some of our most efficient AT. With a shield generator they're pretty tough for their cost, as well. I think the cyclic ion raker is a trap, it's a great gun but it doesn't pair well with the other weapons. Burst cannons are no good vs heavy infantry/tanks, and the range of the CIR is wasted without a longer range secondary weapon system.

What would you guys say is the best units for playing Farsight Enclaves?

 ShredderShards wrote:
What would you guys say is the best units for playing Farsight Enclaves?

Unfortunately, anything but Crisis Suits.

Although, a 3-6 CIB Crisis Suit Deep Strike Bomb supported by a Commander using the right strats will delete an enemy unit on the turn it arrives, it just won’t survive past that single turn.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 ShredderShards wrote:
What would you guys say is the best units for playing Farsight Enclaves?

Unfortunately, anything but Crisis Suits.

Although, a 3-6 CIB Crisis Suit Deep Strike Bomb supported by a Commander using the right strats will delete an enemy unit on the turn it arrives, it just won’t survive past that single turn.

SJ

And only if that other player is coming to you. If he is playing a gunline and staying in his own deployment zone, well... all those points will be doing nothing for entire, crucial first turn. Vespids cheap and efficient as they are can afford that, several hundred points of Crisis cannot.

Hi all. Recently started collecting Tau (Death Guard mainly) and wanted to create a fluffy Farsight Enclaves list. Pretty happy with what I came up with but just wanted to bemoan the fact that if you go Enclaves your HQ choices seem to get dramatically slashed! That's all really. Cheers for listening!

The problem with the CIB is that it is only good if you overcharge. If shooting normals, it is really a glorified burst cannon. So markerlight support wil lbe mandatory.

I always played Pacific Rim Tau, so I'm going to try do the same this edition. Going to test this.



Vanguard Detachment


T'au Sept

1x Crisis Commander, 4x Missile Pod, Vector Thrusters (A Ghost Walks Among Us)

3x Riptide, HBC + SMS, Counterfire, Target Lock
3x Ghostkeel, Cyclic Ion Raker + BCs, Counterfire, Shield Generator

1x Y'vahra, Counterfire, Target Lock, 2x Shield Drone
5x Shield Drone





Hopefully will be able to use mobility to delay the game while blasting key units apart, and pull off BIG Overwatch's on units that make it there thanks to Sept Tactics + Counterfire + GG ± Dakka, getting free kills weakening assaults and just flying out the next turn. Against shooting lists, focus the heavy weapons and tough it through the small dice with defensive profile and range dictation. No Advanced Targeting will have an impact on the math, but ideally this will be a good trade for what the dice don't show.

Depending on how important I feel the Mont'ka and the Shield Drones end up being, might even just drop them entirely to take a second Ethereal detachment and just spam Kroot Hounds as a speedbump, bubblewrap, cheap mobile objective grabbers, and a fairly points efficient assault unit.
I imagine no matter what I do, the list will get eaten alive by Mortal Wound spam, but hey that's the name of the game.





I don't like Markerlights in this edition. R'varna feels really overcosted. So does Y'vahra for the matter but nowhere near as badly. Does anyone feel contrary?

Any ideas how to deal with the new surge of imp knight players? Tried to fight one and nearly got tabled both times. I used 3 fire warrior squads 2 pathfinder squads, 6 crisis suits, 6 stealth suits, ghostkeel and a few others I cant quite remember. Nothing I had could even touch any of his 6-8T stuff and the things that could potentially help dish out the damage are generally one shot. Any units I should look for? I recently got a stormsurge to help it out as well.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Any ideas how to deal with the new surge of imp knight players? Tried to fight one and nearly got tabled both times. I used 3 fire warrior squads 2 pathfinder squads, 6 crisis suits, 6 stealth suits, ghostkeel and a few others I cant quite remember. Nothing I had could even touch any of his 6-8T stuff and the things that could potentially help dish out the damage are generally one shot. Any units I should look for? I recently got a stormsurge to help it out as well.

1 stop taking crisis suits those points are better spent elsewhere.
2 which sept were you playing? TAU sept firewarriors wound a knight on 4+ with the strategum 1 unit can be 3+ with darkstrider.
3 where are your heavy hitters I see no riptide, no broadsides no Y'vahra's (though they look bad against knights)?
4 pathfinders are a very squishy source of markerlights and any vaguely viable/competitive list will have them gone turn 1
5 what points are you playing?

I would say you want a battalion per 1k then add hammerheads riptides to suit your play style.
Sept traits and strategums are powerful and should be considered carefully. TAU and borkan are my go to with secea for markerlights and railsides

Focused Fire should work wonders against knights. Sure that requires cp but luckily our troops are good. And yes, as Ice_can said you need heavy hitters. Can't go wrong with Riptides or Hammerheads.

Oh and if they use stratagem to buff invulnerable saves just shoot something else. Always shoot what you can kill.

 Fueli wrote:
Focused Fire should work wonders against knights. Sure that requires cp but luckily our troops are good. And yes, as Ice_can said you need heavy hitters. Can't go wrong with Riptides or Hammerheads.

Oh and if they use stratagem to buff invulnerable saves just shoot something else. Always shoot what you can kill.

Thanks for the advice guys!

One thing I am concerned about is that focused fire, along with being 3(!) CP requires you to wound the knight once before. Alongside that why are crisis suits not worth taking aboutmore? I had them running triple plas and they were the only thing able to do anything (and won me the game actually)
The only issues I have with broadsides and hammerheads are that the anti tank shots are only 1 (pretty sure) shot each so thats a lot of points in one basket since they will be targeted by his castellans and blown off the board in one round of shooting.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Thanks for the advice guys!

One thing I am concerned about is that focused fire, along with being 3(!) CP requires you to wound the knight once before. Alongside that why are crisis suits not worth taking aboutmore? I had them running triple plas and they were the only thing able to do anything (and won me the game actually)
The only issues I have with broadsides and hammerheads are that the anti tank shots are only 1 (pretty sure) shot each so thats a lot of points in one basket since they will be targeted by his castellans and blown off the board in one round of shooting.

I'll compair them to one of the 2 riptides I run to show why they bad.

Crisis suits are t5 3w 3+sv no invo with tripple plasma 4 is more points than my riptide loadout

Riptide is t7 14 w 2+ Sv 5++invo with one riptide being 3++ from T1 onwards beats your crisis for durability alot bar that odd lascannon/shadowsword but thats what shield drones are for.

Weapons riptide wins by a lot more shots, longer range and flat 2 damage and smart missiles just for lols.

Hammerhead have you looked at the ion cannon profile?

Knights are not an easy match up but your list can be a lot stronger.
This is a good thing as his knight list is kinda stuck in they do what they do your Tau list can get a lot stronger.

I might recommend a Stormsurge with the Pulse Driver Cannon. D6 shots, at S10 and d6 damage is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you've got markerlights and are anchored. Plus you've got the D missiles for up to 4d3 mortal wounds. Probably not the most points-efficient option, but it is an option and should be considered.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I might recommend a Stormsurge with the Pulse Driver Cannon. D6 shots, at S10 and d6 damage is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you've got markerlights and are anchored. Plus you've got the D missiles for up to 4d3 mortal wounds. Probably not the most points-efficient option, but it is an option and should be considered.

Yeah I just picked one up and built it with the blastcannon, ATS, multi tracker and sheild generator. Probably will add in a Longstrike as well. Kind of want to add a few sunshark bombers because I love the look of them, but i hear they are pretty bad

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Any ideas how to deal with the new surge of imp knight players? Tried to fight one and nearly got tabled both times. I used 3 fire warrior squads 2 pathfinder squads, 6 crisis suits, 6 stealth suits, ghostkeel and a few others I cant quite remember. Nothing I had could even touch any of his 6-8T stuff and the things that could potentially help dish out the damage are generally one shot. Any units I should look for? I recently got a stormsurge to help it out as well.

Stormsurge is quite good.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Fueli wrote:
Focused Fire should work wonders against knights. Sure that requires cp but luckily our troops are good. And yes, as Ice_can said you need heavy hitters. Can't go wrong with Riptides or Hammerheads.

Oh and if they use stratagem to buff invulnerable saves just shoot something else. Always shoot what you can kill.

Thanks for the advice guys!

One thing I am concerned about is that focused fire, along with being 3(!) CP requires you to wound the knight once before. Alongside that why are crisis suits not worth taking aboutmore? I had them running triple plas and they were the only thing able to do anything (and won me the game actually)
The only issues I have with broadsides and hammerheads are that the anti tank shots are only 1 (pretty sure) shot each so thats a lot of points in one basket since they will be targeted by his castellans and blown off the board in one round of shooting.

Crisis suits just aren’t very tough and need a lot of expensive support (drones, markerlights). They can have good damage output, especially with CIBs or Fusion Blasters, but they don’t have the staying power of any of our other units. Triple plasma is going to do good damage against T4 1W 3+ models and that’s about it. Wounding vehicles on 5s and only being one damage really hurts our plasma.

On Hammerheads and Broadsides, the best Hammerhead variant is the ion cannon which has d6 3 damage shots. Flat 3 damage is amazing this edition. Broadsides have more competition between the two variants, but I’d recommend the HYMP variant over the 2-shot rail rifle. HYMP are still solid against vehicles but are much better against everything else, and are more likely to wound a Doomsday Ark. Though HYMP is worst against T8, which is maybe a bigger consideration in the meta now.

Hammerheads getting killed off by Knights is a real problem for us. They’ve got the invulnerable and our tanks don’t.

meleti wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Fueli wrote:
Focused Fire should work wonders against knights. Sure that requires cp but luckily our troops are good. And yes, as Ice_can said you need heavy hitters. Can't go wrong with Riptides or Hammerheads.

Oh and if they use stratagem to buff invulnerable saves just shoot something else. Always shoot what you can kill.

Thanks for the advice guys!

One thing I am concerned about is that focused fire, along with being 3(!) CP requires you to wound the knight once before. Alongside that why are crisis suits not worth taking aboutmore? I had them running triple plas and they were the only thing able to do anything (and won me the game actually)
The only issues I have with broadsides and hammerheads are that the anti tank shots are only 1 (pretty sure) shot each so thats a lot of points in one basket since they will be targeted by his castellans and blown off the board in one round of shooting.

Crisis suits just aren’t very tough and need a lot of expensive support (drones, markerlights). They can have good damage output, especially with CIBs or Fusion Blasters, but they don’t have the staying power of any of our other units. Triple plasma is going to do good damage against T4 1W 3+ models and that’s about it. Wounding vehicles on 5s and only being one damage really hurts our plasma.

On Hammerheads and Broadsides, the best Hammerhead variant is the ion cannon which has d6 3 damage shots. Flat 3 damage is amazing this edition. Broadsides have more competition between the two variants, but I’d recommend the HYMP variant over the 2-shot rail rifle. HYMP are still solid against vehicles but are much better against everything else, and are more likely to wound a Doomsday Ark. Though HYMP is worst against T8, which is maybe a bigger consideration in the meta now.

Hammerheads getting killed off by Knights is a real problem for us. They’ve got the invulnerable and our tanks don’t.

Would the flyers (even from fw) solve that problem then? The negative to hit seems to really help survivability and one of the FW flyers has anti titan weapon on it as well.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Would the flyers (even from fw) solve that problem then? The negative to hit seems to really help survivability and one of the FW flyers has anti titan weapon on it as well.

I haven't played with Tiger Sharks, but they seem OK here. The AX-1-0 (the anti-tank one) does ludicrous damage if it connects, but if it's shooting at a Knight with a 3++ save and a command reroll, I think it might struggle a bit. The Fighter-Bomber can do some respectable damage with two HBCs and Focused Fire up. The real kicker is that they can both take six seeker missiles, with an innate 2+ ballistic skill. 30 points to pretend you're a Sky Ray sounds like a good idea if you play against a lot of superheavies.

meleti wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Would the flyers (even from fw) solve that problem then? The negative to hit seems to really help survivability and one of the FW flyers has anti titan weapon on it as well.

I haven't played with Tiger Sharks, but they seem OK here. The AX-1-0 (the anti-tank one) does ludicrous damage if it connects, but if it's shooting at a Knight with a 3++ save and a command reroll, I think it might struggle a bit. The Fighter-Bomber can do some respectable damage with two HBCs and Focused Fire up. The real kicker is that they can both take six seeker missiles, with an innate 2+ ballistic skill. 30 points to pretend you're a Sky Ray sounds like a good idea if you play against a lot of superheavies.

I've got a friend who has been trying 3 Tigersharks, and that list is NASTY! Killed close to 1200 points of my army in just one turn (partly thanks to an exploding Stormsurge in the middle of my lines).

 ZergSmasher wrote:

meleti wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Would the flyers (even from fw) solve that problem then? The negative to hit seems to really help survivability and one of the FW flyers has anti titan weapon on it as well.

I haven't played with Tiger Sharks, but they seem OK here. The AX-1-0 (the anti-tank one) does ludicrous damage if it connects, but if it's shooting at a Knight with a 3++ save and a command reroll, I think it might struggle a bit. The Fighter-Bomber can do some respectable damage with two HBCs and Focused Fire up. The real kicker is that they can both take six seeker missiles, with an innate 2+ ballistic skill. 30 points to pretend you're a Sky Ray sounds like a good idea if you play against a lot of superheavies.

I've got a friend who has been trying 3 Tigersharks, and that list is NASTY! Killed close to 1200 points of my army in just one turn (partly thanks to an exploding Stormsurge in the middle of my lines).

Lol 3 Tigersharks wow. What is that like 1800 pts? What else did he even have?

I imagine it would blow up anything with Stormsurges', but I can't imagine a list that is basically 3x LOW-Hunters doing well under any other circumstance.




On a similar tangent, has anyone tried the Supremacy Suit? What do we think?

 ShredderShards wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

meleti wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Would the flyers (even from fw) solve that problem then? The negative to hit seems to really help survivability and one of the FW flyers has anti titan weapon on it as well.

I haven't played with Tiger Sharks, but they seem OK here. The AX-1-0 (the anti-tank one) does ludicrous damage if it connects, but if it's shooting at a Knight with a 3++ save and a command reroll, I think it might struggle a bit. The Fighter-Bomber can do some respectable damage with two HBCs and Focused Fire up. The real kicker is that they can both take six seeker missiles, with an innate 2+ ballistic skill. 30 points to pretend you're a Sky Ray sounds like a good idea if you play against a lot of superheavies.

I've got a friend who has been trying 3 Tigersharks, and that list is NASTY! Killed close to 1200 points of my army in just one turn (partly thanks to an exploding Stormsurge in the middle of my lines).

Lol 3 Tigersharks wow. What is that like 1800 pts? What else did he even have?

I imagine it would blow up anything with Stormsurges', but I can't imagine a list that is basically 3x LOW-Hunters doing well under any other circumstance.

On a similar tangent, has anyone tried the Supremacy Suit? What do we think?

3 tiger sharks arn't the bad if they aren't the X-01 LOW hunter.
2 normal one X-01 is 1.5k and fairly TAC with plenty of points for a battalion. Nasty but they neeed to table you and you just kill the stuff on the table and he looses.

The Taunar at 2k points cost its just not practical for most games you can't really play to any mission. It's something you buy as a modeling project and might play in a casual apoc scale game.

Ice_can wrote:


The Taunar at 2k points cost its just not practical for most games you can't really play to any mission. It's something you buy as a modeling project and might play in a casual apoc scale game.

Of course you aren't winning any missions, but for it's cost is it at all justified in power? Might run one at 3k for chuckles

The Tiger Shark fighter-bomber might be the best unit in our arsenal, honestly. That's a bit dependent on our FW units getting updated to codex stats. That is, the HBC needs to be changed to match the codex.

Oh yeah the standard Tigershark is a beast. Are we expecting it to be nerfed? I was planning on getting a couple

MilkmanAl wrote:
The Tiger Shark fighter-bomber might be the best unit in our arsenal, honestly. That's a bit dependent on our FW units getting updated to codex stats. That is, the HBC needs to be changed to match the codex.

Index models always use the most updated rules, so they have the Heavy 12 HBC as that’s been updated in our codex. Weapons that aren’t in our codex, like fusion cascades or the twin heavy burst cannon still need a profile update, though.

 ShredderShards wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

meleti wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Would the flyers (even from fw) solve that problem then? The negative to hit seems to really help survivability and one of the FW flyers has anti titan weapon on it as well.

I haven't played with Tiger Sharks, but they seem OK here. The AX-1-0 (the anti-tank one) does ludicrous damage if it connects, but if it's shooting at a Knight with a 3++ save and a command reroll, I think it might struggle a bit. The Fighter-Bomber can do some respectable damage with two HBCs and Focused Fire up. The real kicker is that they can both take six seeker missiles, with an innate 2+ ballistic skill. 30 points to pretend you're a Sky Ray sounds like a good idea if you play against a lot of superheavies.

I've got a friend who has been trying 3 Tigersharks, and that list is NASTY! Killed close to 1200 points of my army in just one turn (partly thanks to an exploding Stormsurge in the middle of my lines).

Lol 3 Tigersharks wow. What is that like 1800 pts? What else did he even have?

I imagine it would blow up anything with Stormsurges', but I can't imagine a list that is basically 3x LOW-Hunters doing well under any other circumstance.

It was 3 regular Tigersharks, not the LOW hunter one. They put out insane amounts of firepower. The rest of the list was basically a couple of Coldstars, a Riptide, 3 min FW squads, a Marker Drone squad, Darkstrider, and a Cadre Fireblade.

Knights seem like a super easy matchup for a proper tau list. Minimal targets means markerlights are super efficient, our S5 spam wounds on a 5 (4 with t'au), CIB commanders average 5 damage each vs a knight, drones totally gimp the missile sniping, etc.

What I consider a proper T'au list doesn't really provide any sort of good target for knights, while having all the tools to take them out.

Custode bikes are much, much scarier to us, IMO

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Knights seem like a super easy matchup for a proper tau list. Minimal targets means markerlights are super efficient, our S5 spam wounds on a 5 (4 with t'au), CIB commanders average 5 damage each vs a knight, drones totally gimp the missile sniping, etc.

What I consider a proper T'au list doesn't really provide any sort of good target for knights, while having all the tools to take them out.

Custode bikes are much, much scarier to us, IMO

Agree on Focused Fire, Knights are basically what the stratagem was made for. Just watch out for the 2+ armor save relic (Armor of Sainted Ion), it puts a considerable dent in massed pulse fire.

On Tau providing good targets: eh, depends on the list. One of the popular tournament lists right now is 3 Hammerheads + Longstrike and that provides some great targets for Knights. I don't run Hammerheads, but it seems like potentially a rough matchup for anyone that does.