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Try to get Index Xenos 2 and take some time reading the Tau section. Even if we have less unit options than most of other armies, there are quite a lot nonetheless

Firesight Marksman might be a better idea than Cadre Fireblade, as he's almost half its price, albeit at BS3+.

Pottsey wrote:
Why are people saying markerlights are dead? In a way they seem more powerful than ever before. So 5 tokens means your entire army not just 1 unit gets reroll 1’s, +1Hit after reroll miss’s, no cover save and the rest against that unit.

The cumulative stacking and effecting your entire army is a boost isn’t it?

IMHO Tau are a swiss army knife, each tool has a use and if you multiple units to take down something with 5+ marker lights, your wasting potential.

I've been using 1 markerlight on target. from either Firesights or Fireblades and units with BS3+ or better and getting the reroll and be done with it.

Played my fifth game of 8th last night. I got absolutely steamrolled by Death Guard; battle report is up in the BR section.

But, for those TL;DR folks out there, a couple quick hits:

I took a top heavy army with a Stormsurge at 1000 points. His D Missiles whiffed, even anchored, and Daemon invul saves blocked the majority of his Pulse Driver wounds. Gentlemen, he isn't worth it. You can take 3 Fusion Commanders for that many points, and they will do far more damage than his D Missiles and Pulse Driver will. The rest of his weapons are your standard S5 spam that our infantry do so well.

Darkstrider is amazing. I even forgot his -1T debuff and he was still awesome. 45 Points for a scout move, and more importantly, the ability to Fall Back and still shoot. He works wonders with Breachers.

Speaking of which, I thought Breachers had been usurped by Vespid. Granted, I haven't tried the latter yet but I think they still have a place. 10 Breachers and Darkstrider in a Fish is 252 Points. They can get where they want, storm an objective and take it. And they're low enough on the target priority totem pole that they can survive long enough to do the job.

The 8th terrain rules are terrible. True LOS was elegant and simple. The return of area terrain, with units having to be wholly within to gain cover, and monsters and vehicles needing to be wholly within AND obscured, means that functionally no one ever has a cover save unless they're literally out of LOS. Stupid. I hope they bring the old terrain rules back in 8th ed 2.0 in a year or two.

 The Shrike wrote:
Played my fifth game of 8th last night. I got absolutely steamrolled by Death Guard; battle report is up in the BR section.

But, for those TL;DR folks out there, a couple quick hits:

I took a top heavy army with a Stormsurge at 1000 points. His D Missiles whiffed, even anchored, and Daemon invul saves blocked the majority of his Pulse Driver wounds. Gentlemen, he isn't worth it. You can take 3 Fusion Commanders for that many points, and they will do far more damage than his D Missiles and Pulse Driver will. The rest of his weapons are your standard S5 spam that our infantry do so well.

Darkstrider is amazing. I even forgot his -1T debuff and he was still awesome. 45 Points for a scout move, and more importantly, the ability to Fall Back and still shoot. He works wonders with Breachers.

Speaking of which, I thought Breachers had been usurped by Vespid. Granted, I haven't tried the latter yet but I think they still have a place. 10 Breachers and Darkstrider in a Fish is 252 Points. They can get where they want, storm an objective and take it. And they're low enough on the target priority totem pole that they can survive long enough to do the job.

The 8th terrain rules are terrible. True LOS was elegant and simple. The return of area terrain, with units having to be wholly within to gain cover, and monsters and vehicles needing to be wholly within AND obscured, means that functionally no one ever has a cover save unless they're literally out of LOS. Stupid. I hope they bring the old terrain rules back in 8th ed 2.0 in a year or two.

Are you aware there are 2 sets of terrain rules in the main rulebook and the 2nd set has expanded cover rules. With the 2nd set just being behind a barricade gives cover.

Aeri wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Aeri wrote:

MoD_Legion wrote:
Imho its quite obvious that in the line 'can fire using a weapon's Nova profile' the singular element references the Nova profile and not the weapon. It simple states that when shooting all your weapons, you can choose to use the nova profile (if the weapon has one) to do so, no restrictions that its only allowed for one weapon.

To stay in the farmer example, when meeting farmer John you are allowed to pet his cow(s), but not on head. However, if you give him a tenner, while petting a cow you are allowed to pet a cow's head. How many cows are you allowed to pet on the head?

No need to discuss this any further, he is the only one arguing you can't shoot both an he disqualified himself with that "cow" example that doesn't even fit the situation...

Honestly, look at a dictionary. "A weapon" is the singular. It can only be interpreted one way - one, single weapon. The plural is "weapons". The rules would have said "it can fire its weapons with their nova profiles" if that's what they meant.

If that's not good enough for you then I agree that there's no point discussing this further. If people aren't prepared to accept basic English grammar, there's nothing more to say.

Dude, you are a native speaker...
Grab a dictionary, look up what an indefinite article is.

"She was last seen wearing a blue jacket and a blue and white blouse."
This sentence is not about how many jackets or blouses she wears. It uses indefinite articles, which are used to refer to non specific things.

"May fire using a weapon's nova profile"
This sentence again, uses indefinite articles. It does not specifiy which weapon's nova profile. It neither says how many weapons. The sentence does not limit the amount of nova profiles you may use.

How are you firing more than 1 nova charged weapon when the riptide is only allowed to bring either the HBC or the Ion Accelerator? There isn't a ripple fire profile, nor nova smart missiles, etc. you have no point because you are never allowed to bring more than 1 weapon capable of nova charging.

So yes, it can shoot an infinite number of nova profile weapons that it is equipped with, but it can only ever be equipped with 1.

 The Shrike wrote:
Played my fifth game of 8th last night. I got absolutely steamrolled by Death Guard; battle report is up in the BR section.

But, for those TL;DR folks out there, a couple quick hits:

I took a top heavy army with a Stormsurge at 1000 points. His D Missiles whiffed, even anchored, and Daemon invul saves blocked the majority of his Pulse Driver wounds. Gentlemen, he isn't worth it. You can take 3 Fusion Commanders for that many points, and they will do far more damage than his D Missiles and Pulse Driver will. The rest of his weapons are your standard S5 spam that our infantry do so well.

Darkstrider is amazing. I even forgot his -1T debuff and he was still awesome. 45 Points for a scout move, and more importantly, the ability to Fall Back and still shoot. He works wonders with Breachers.

Speaking of which, I thought Breachers had been usurped by Vespid. Granted, I haven't tried the latter yet but I think they still have a place. 10 Breachers and Darkstrider in a Fish is 252 Points. They can get where they want, storm an objective and take it. And they're low enough on the target priority totem pole that they can survive long enough to do the job.

The 8th terrain rules are terrible. True LOS was elegant and simple. The return of area terrain, with units having to be wholly within to gain cover, and monsters and vehicles needing to be wholly within AND obscured, means that functionally no one ever has a cover save unless they're literally out of LOS. Stupid. I hope they bring the old terrain rules back in 8th ed 2.0 in a year or two.

You took a storm surge in a 1k lists?

pumaman1 wrote:

Aeri wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Aeri wrote:

MoD_Legion wrote:
Imho its quite obvious that in the line 'can fire using a weapon's Nova profile' the singular element references the Nova profile and not the weapon. It simple states that when shooting all your weapons, you can choose to use the nova profile (if the weapon has one) to do so, no restrictions that its only allowed for one weapon.

To stay in the farmer example, when meeting farmer John you are allowed to pet his cow(s), but not on head. However, if you give him a tenner, while petting a cow you are allowed to pet a cow's head. How many cows are you allowed to pet on the head?

No need to discuss this any further, he is the only one arguing you can't shoot both an he disqualified himself with that "cow" example that doesn't even fit the situation...

Honestly, look at a dictionary. "A weapon" is the singular. It can only be interpreted one way - one, single weapon. The plural is "weapons". The rules would have said "it can fire its weapons with their nova profiles" if that's what they meant.

If that's not good enough for you then I agree that there's no point discussing this further. If people aren't prepared to accept basic English grammar, there's nothing more to say.

Dude, you are a native speaker...
Grab a dictionary, look up what an indefinite article is.

"She was last seen wearing a blue jacket and a blue and white blouse."
This sentence is not about how many jackets or blouses she wears. It uses indefinite articles, which are used to refer to non specific things.

"May fire using a weapon's nova profile"
This sentence again, uses indefinite articles. It does not specifiy which weapon's nova profile. It neither says how many weapons. The sentence does not limit the amount of nova profiles you may use.

How are you firing more than 1 nova charged weapon when the riptide is only allowed to bring either the HBC or the Ion Accelerator? There isn't a ripple fire profile, nor nova smart missiles, etc. you have no point because you are never allowed to bring more than 1 weapon capable of nova charging.

So yes, it can shoot an infinite number of nova profile weapons that it is equipped with, but it can only ever be equipped with 1.

We are not talking about the riptide.

Vector Strike wrote:Try to get Index Xenos 2 and take some time reading the Tau section. Even if we have less unit options than most of other armies, there are quite a lot nonetheless

Firesight Marksman might be a better idea than Cadre Fireblade, as he's almost half its price, albeit at BS3+.

I think the firesight marksman would reduce the effectiveness of the combo too much.



regarding transport capacity of the droneport:
Not sure how to read it, 10 models max or characters + 1 unit of max 10 models?

 The Shrike wrote:
Played my fifth game of 8th last night. I got absolutely steamrolled by Death Guard; battle report is up in the BR section.

But, for those TL;DR folks out there, a couple quick hits:

I took a top heavy army with a Stormsurge at 1000 points. His D Missiles whiffed, even anchored, and Daemon invul saves blocked the majority of his Pulse Driver wounds. Gentlemen, he isn't worth it. You can take 3 Fusion Commanders for that many points, and they will do far more damage than his D Missiles and Pulse Driver will. The rest of his weapons are your standard S5 spam that our infantry do so well.

Darkstrider is amazing. I even forgot his -1T debuff and he was still awesome. 45 Points for a scout move, and more importantly, the ability to Fall Back and still shoot. He works wonders with Breachers.

Speaking of which, I thought Breachers had been usurped by Vespid. Granted, I haven't tried the latter yet but I think they still have a place. 10 Breachers and Darkstrider in a Fish is 252 Points. They can get where they want, storm an objective and take it. And they're low enough on the target priority totem pole that they can survive long enough to do the job.

The 8th terrain rules are terrible. True LOS was elegant and simple. The return of area terrain, with units having to be wholly within to gain cover, and monsters and vehicles needing to be wholly within AND obscured, means that functionally no one ever has a cover save unless they're literally out of LOS. Stupid. I hope they bring the old terrain rules back in 8th ed 2.0 in a year or two.

I faced Blood Angels in my second 8th edition game. My list was (79PL 1540 pts) 2 fusion commanders, 6 breacher squads in 3 devilfish with Darkstrider, 2 fusion piranhas and a riptide HBC, ATS, EWO. I played the list super aggressively with all 3 fish just blitzing towards him. It was an INCREDIBLY fun list to play, the breachers performed far beyond my expectations.

I think in my final iteration of this list, I will drop the riptide for a squad of plasma crisis suits just so I can play the commanders even more aggressively. Those devilfish held up quite well, and the alpha strike / counterpunch combindation of the commanders and breachers was pretty devastating. Darkstrider did good work in my game too. I VERY much look forward to this new and aggressive style of Tau play. Even if a stormsurge was great, I don't think I'd take one. Why Castle up, when you can have such an engaging aggressive mobile army that is just as effective?

I love this. I will try Vespid once I figure out a usable proxy, but I'm not ready to give up on Breachers. I have 25 of them and a slew of Devilfish. My next 2k game I'm going to run mech with Crisis and Commander support and see where the chips fall.

 The Shrike wrote:
I love this. I will try Vespid once I figure out a usable proxy, but I'm not ready to give up on Breachers. I have 25 of them and a slew of Devilfish. My next 2k game I'm going to run mech with Crisis and Commander support and see where the chips fall.

I'm sure it's possible to build a more competitive tournament list, but you will be hard pressed to build a list that is still relatively strong and plays in such an engaging and aggressive way. It is really a treat to play T'au in this manner. I think I'll give Vespid a go too, but they seem so vulnerable to alpha strike and turn 1 fire. The breachers get nice and protected turn 1 in their surprisingly durable fishes.

Don't forget the vespid have a deep strike I think? Can't get alpha'd if you're not on the board!

So I am looking at breachers vs strikers. Assuming both are backed up with a fireblade or darkstrider.

30-16" strikers do more damage and breachers do none.
11-15" strikers do nearly 50% more damage than breachers do against meqs
6"-10" strikers do the same damage as breachers do against meqs
1-5" Breachers will do about 75% more damage than strikers.

I am not sure if the reward of being in the 1-5" range is worth trying to get into it. I would much rather use my strikers do take pot shots from a distance. Strikers who get two rounds of shooting will out damage breachers who took a turn getting into position. Breachers only are worth it when you start hunting tanks but that is what your fusion commanders are for as they do it better.

 lambsandlions wrote:
So I am looking at breachers vs strikers. Assuming both are backed up with a fireblade or darkstrider.

30-16" strikers do more damage and breachers do none.
11-15" strikers do nearly 50% more damage than breachers do against meqs
6"-10" strikers do the same damage as breachers do against meqs
1-5" Breachers will do about 75% more damage than strikers.

I am not sure if the reward of being in the 1-5" range is worth trying to get into it. I would much rather use my strikers do take pot shots from a distance. Strikers who get two rounds of shooting will out damage breachers who took a turn getting into position. Breachers only are worth it when you start hunting tanks but that is what your fusion commanders are for as they do it better.

My argument is more about how much more engaging the play style for breachers is vs traditional T'au gunline. After having so much fun blitzing those fish up the gut, I am not likely to give regular fire warriors the time on the table that they might deserve otherwise.

Still, each person has fun with different play styles. More than anything we should be happy that all of our troop options are so viable!

Suks wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
So I am looking at breachers vs strikers. Assuming both are backed up with a fireblade or darkstrider.

30-16" strikers do more damage and breachers do none.
11-15" strikers do nearly 50% more damage than breachers do against meqs
6"-10" strikers do the same damage as breachers do against meqs
1-5" Breachers will do about 75% more damage than strikers.

I am not sure if the reward of being in the 1-5" range is worth trying to get into it. I would much rather use my strikers do take pot shots from a distance. Strikers who get two rounds of shooting will out damage breachers who took a turn getting into position. Breachers only are worth it when you start hunting tanks but that is what your fusion commanders are for as they do it better.

My argument is more about how much more engaging the play style for breachers is vs traditional T'au gunline. After having so much fun blitzing those fish up the gut, I am not likely to give regular fire warriors the time on the table that they might deserve otherwise.

Still, each person has fun with different play styles. More than anything we should be happy that all of our troop options are so viable!

Breachers, Strikers or Gundrones?

Oh..oh....! Are gundrones forced to split fire!?!

Suks wrote:

My argument is more about how much more engaging the play style for breachers is vs traditional T'au gunline. After having so much fun blitzing those fish up the gut, I am not likely to give regular fire warriors the time on the table that they might deserve otherwise.

Still, each person has fun with different play styles. More than anything we should be happy that all of our troop options are so viable!

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating a traditional gunline. We have so much mobility in this edition that we really want to be backing up our crisis suits with fish of furry. However, 5" is cutting it very close for a non-assault unit. My main army is Harlequins and we have 6" fusion pistols that are already hard enough to shoot with not counting the fact that we have 16" open top vehicles and 8" regular moves.

Another interesting option would be pathfinders. The cost just the same as strikers and breachers, have one less armor but firewarriors are not really tanking anythign to begin with. The pulse carbine with pulse excelorator drone lets them have 3 shots in 12" with fireblade vs 3 shots in 15" for strikers. Play them as a mobile unit that can also support other units from range.

Grimgold wrote:
You took a storm surge in a 1k lists?

The enemy had a Daemon Prince, and SSs are easier to deal with (as his BR will tell you)

Aeri wrote:
regarding transport capacity of the droneport:
Not sure how to read it, 10 models max or characters + 1 unit of max 10 models?

only 1 unit of normal units and as many characters you want - but the total model count inside must be at most 10 models

So as 8th is developing it seems that tanks, vehicles and multi wound monsters are going to be very strong. As a result I feel fusion blasters are going to be really strong.

For 176 pts we have a commander with 4 fusion and 2 gun drones (would shield drones be better?)
Pros:
BS2+ means most shots will hit and makes best use of markerlights
Deep strike right where you need it
master of war ability is pretty strong

cons:
less wounds than a ghostknell
less mobility that ghostkneel


For 201pts you can have a ghostkeel with 2 stealth drones
Pros:
10 wounds it tough
-1 to hit and -2 to hit from <12" makes it very difficult to hit and makes it a lot stronger than its T6 W10 SV3+ frame would suggest
12" move lets you relocate quickly

Cons:
infiltrate is worst than manta strike
BS4+ is a drag

So was thinking this would be pretty cool if it works, 3 crisis suits, all with drone controller, surrounded by 12 drones within 6", the drones would get 48 shots at BS 2! and act as 12 extra wounds for your crisis guys. Can drone controller stack??

Dawson360 wrote:
So was thinking this would be pretty cool if it works, 3 crisis suits, all with drone controller, surrounded by 12 drones within 6", the drones would get 48 shots at BS 2! and act as 12 extra wounds for your crisis guys. Can drone controller stack??

Some people say they do, but others say it follows a boolean argument - if there's a drone controller around, the drones get +1 to hit; if there isn't, they don't. this line of thinking precludes stacking

 Vector Strike wrote:

Dawson360 wrote:
So was thinking this would be pretty cool if it works, 3 crisis suits, all with drone controller, surrounded by 12 drones within 6", the drones would get 48 shots at BS 2! and act as 12 extra wounds for your crisis guys. Can drone controller stack??

Some people say they do, but others say it follows a boolean argument - if there's a drone controller around, the drones get +1 to hit; if there isn't, they don't. this line of thinking precludes stacking

I guess it's a bit cheesy too, unless your opponent is OK with it.
Was also thinking of taking a few squads of sniper drones, they no longer need to be near the marksman, he just needs line of sight, stick the drones near something with drone controller and they would get a BS boost from the controller and the marksman. Could multiple marksmen stack BS boost? Or is this wishful thinking again?

As a result I feel fusion blasters are going to be really strong.

There were some spreadsheets floating around in the general 40k forum which demonstrate exactly that. Fusion appears to be suits' most efficient weapon choice at the moment.

Was also thinking of taking a few squads of sniper drones, they no longer need to be near the marksman, he just needs line of sight, stick the drones near something with drone controller and they would get a BS boost from the controller and the marksman. Could multiple marksmen stack BS boost? Or is this wishful thinking again?

Sniper Drones seem pretty underwhelming, even with BS boosts. They just don't pack enough punch to justify their cost. I don't think stacking DCs or Firesights actually works, but it'd be nice if it did!

So, working on refining my 2k list. I'm set on running at least one fusion commander. I'd like to run CIBs on Crisis, but am unsure whether I should go 2+ATS or 3 CIB. Also, do I continue using a flamer team? If so, I need Stealths, which have been underwhelming for me. Otherwise, I can run 2 CIB teams.

Also Ghostkeels. I'm thinking 2x Raker/Birst/ATS/TL and 1x Tri-fusion/TL/Shields.

Your thoughts?

Cost efficiency and damage is very similar for 3 CIBs vs 2 CIB + ATS. If you need the 10 extra oints, take the ATS, otherwise 3 CIB.


I am thinking about using 3 Crisis with MP+ATS instead of 1 Broadside, what do you think about it?
Broadside is 210 with ATS vs. 294 for the Crisis.

Crisis have 9 Total wounds, no SMS and only a 3+ save.
They also have 4 more shots with MP instead of only 8 HYMP shots.

Aeri wrote:
Cost efficiency and damage is very similar for 3 CIBs vs 2 CIB + ATS. If you need the 10 extra oints, take the ATS, otherwise 3 CIB.


I am thinking about using 3 Crisis with MP+ATS instead of 1 Broadside, what do you think about it?
Broadside is 210 with ATS vs. 294 for the Crisis.

Crisis have 9 Total wounds, no SMS and only a 3+ save.
They also have 4 more shots with MP instead of only 8 HYMP shots.

Crisis are more mobile and can bring more drones

 Vector Strike wrote:

Aeri wrote:
Cost efficiency and damage is very similar for 3 CIBs vs 2 CIB + ATS. If you need the 10 extra oints, take the ATS, otherwise 3 CIB.


I am thinking about using 3 Crisis with MP+ATS instead of 1 Broadside, what do you think about it?
Broadside is 210 with ATS vs. 294 for the Crisis.

Crisis have 9 Total wounds, no SMS and only a 3+ save.
They also have 4 more shots with MP instead of only 8 HYMP shots.

Crisis are more mobile and can bring more drones

Yes, but the broadside has a couple of SMS as well. More shots in total. You might well argue that we don't need more s5 shooting, but on a platform that already paid for ATS and doesn't need LoS it's quite useful. On the other hand it can be locked down by anyone who charges it.

Honestly I doubt I'd use either. Missiles just seem quite lacklustre in this edition. It may be that they are useful for sustaining damage over several turns from safe ranges, in which case I think crisis suits are probably best at keeping out of trouble.

It's not an obvious choice, which is probably a good thing. I actually think ghostkeels, with CIC, ATS and TL (and either fusion or burst) are a really good option for this job. Ghostkeels ends up costing about the same as a broadside, but seems a lot better - definitely more fun.

Ghostkeels ends up costing about the same as a broadside, but seems a lot better - definitely more fun.

I'd agree with that. Of our bigger suits, ghostkeels are one of the better options. They're still far worse than Commanders, though, unfortunately.

Commanders are the KILLERS
CIB is the best weapon as it performs well against ALL TARGETs. Use ATS to save points, and reduce overheat chance.

Fusion and MP are the 2nd best choice. Use ATS with MP, or triple Fusion. MP is a safe weapon, useful against all targets. Fusion is a specialist weapon, meaning 1 Fusion Commander is plenty.


Ghostkeel are TANKS, their damage output is a little low.

Crisis Suits are too expensive, don't bother... unless you're playing using Power Points, in which case SPAM THEM!

Broadsides with Rails and Plasma are still useful! Use EWO to help protect your army. HYMP sides are pointless, Don't bring them.

Stealth Suits are the best platform to carry Drone Controllers. Take 2 with DC to increase coverage, and 1 with Fusion. Stealth Suits are kinda of poor at everything else.

Hi dakka,
I'm having my first game of 8th on Friday and would like to know whats best. In regards to fire warriors, I don't like the idea of breacher teams as they're too short ranges for tau, and I'm stuck between squads of pulse carbines or rifles. I think pulse carbines are getting more competent due to being able to run and shoot now, albeit at a -1 to hit.

I'd also like to know the strength of the crisis weapons, and what to run them with. I may run them with 3 weapons now opposed to two, but that may not be the case due to the point increases.

My play style in 7th was leaning more towards a static gunline, and as such my models are less mobile, so I have no fishes.

All of this needs to be for a 1500pts list, so if you can help please do.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Grimgold wrote:
You took a storm surge in a 1k lists?

The enemy had a Daemon Prince, and SSs are easier to deal with (as his BR will tell you)

You mean he had an 8 wound HQ unit, nevermind that totally justifies bringing an imperial knight equivalent to a 1k game. If I tried anything that beardy my FLGS would start a gofundme to hire the shame lady from Game of Thrones to follow me around.

MilkmanAl wrote:

Ghostkeels ends up costing about the same as a broadside, but seems a lot better - definitely more fun.

I'd agree with that. Of our bigger suits, ghostkeels are one of the better options. They're still far worse than Commanders, though, unfortunately.

Commanders are great, clearly. They aren't especially survivable though. Going close to the enemy is inherently very dangerous for Tau, and you may not even be able to get to whatever you're trying to kill if your opponent bubblewraps it. Ultimately you don't want to be trading a commander for a rhino. You need something with a bit of reach.

The trouble is, I'm not sure what that is. All the railgun platforms seem outclassed by lascannon platforms. Missilesides with shield drones nearby do chuck out a serious amount of shooting, but even three of them with ATS would be lucky to kill a rhino in a turn. Markerlights would help with that - but add even more to the cost.