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FW monsters and LoW are overpowered beasts with which no GW entries can compete. An Eldar Cobra can one shot an IK. Titans. You can't play against someone who fields heavy FW entries without having some yourself. I like FW stuff, but I don't want them in my games. Luckily for me, many tournaments don't allow them and those are the ones I go to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 06:21:58
On AX-1-0: firstly, I too was dismayed by not being able to use the other weapons. But it's only 70p not being used... not even a minimal Stealth Suit unit or a naked Commander. I can live without 70p of weapons if I have access to 2 HRCs. Average 14 S18 wounds for less than 600p seems nice.
It sounds really awesome the way you stated it, but that's about the same amount of damage that a fusion Commander deals for 160pts. You'd need some extra oomph in there to compensate for the Shark wounding on 2s instead of 3s or 4s, so just say 2 Commanders. That's still a 250pt savings. The TS is obviously far more.mobile, versatile, and resilient, though, so that's enough to make it a mediocre to average unit, in my mind. With the use of it's 70pts of weapons, which isn't nearly as negligible as you seem to want it to be, it'd actually be a pretty good gun platform.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FW monsters and LoW are overpowered beasts with which no GW entries can compete.
it's clearly your choice to play however you like, but I feel like you're restricting some really cool models and rules for bad or outright false reasons. For example, someone was tinkering with the number in the General forum, and Conscripts stand a chance against a Warhound, pound for pound. What you're saying about rules imbalances was perhaps more true in the past, but things have smoothed out with the new rule set. Again, most of the entries in the Tau FW line are overpriced garbage. Even the once-broken Ta'unar is now a fairly-costed or slightly expensive beast. Its firepower is pedestrian for the points, but being able to pass wounds off to drones is a stupidly useful ability for a model that size. I haven't seen one in action, but I'm going to guess that factor is worth a fair amount of extra points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 11:03:14
Unusual Suspect wrote: You need to get more than 9" on the charge (9 on the dice +1" bubble) to succeed, for both the Deepstriking transport and anything disembarking from it. That happens quite rarely (somewhere around ~25-30%, or just under 50% if you can reroll charges).
It is 57%. With a rerollable charge you get the nine or above 57% of the time. Regards
MilkmanAl wrote: It sounds really awesome the way you stated it, but that's about the same amount of damage that a fusion Commander deals for 160pts. You'd need some extra oomph in there to compensate for the Shark wounding on 2s instead of 3s or 4s, so just say 2 Commanders. That's still a 250pt savings. The TS is obviously far more.mobile, versatile, and resilient, though, so that's enough to make it a mediocre to average unit, in my mind. With the use of it's 70pts of weapons, which isn't nearly as negligible as you seem to want it to be, it'd actually be a pretty good gun platform.
Well, most stuff an AX-1-0 would shoot have T8 or more, so let's go with it. The target is a Baneblade. No markerlights and more than 9" away.
1 commander would hit 83% of the time and deal 1.67 wounds. In average (3), this will become 5 damage. Baneblades have W26, so we'll need 6 commanders to deal with it in one turn - 960p.
1 AX-1-0 will hit 67% of the time, dealing 1.33 wounds. In average (7), this will become 9.33 damage. We'd need almost 3 AX-1-0s to down it on 1 turn - 1749p
Yeah, the commanders are more capable. But the AX-1-0 and the HRC look so cool I'll give them a shot sometimes I think the Figther-Bomber is a better deal, though.
I have good news friend. I emailed forge world and go this response.
Hi,
Thanks for the email Our rules team have been very busy working on FAQ and updates for our recently released Imperial Armour index books. Whilst they are still working on a few of the data sheets we have some good news for the ones you are asking about.
The rules team have given us a temporary fix till the official FAQ is released so please feel free to use these in your games of Warhammer 40k for the time being.
Tiger Shark AX-10 has a macro weapon but is not titanic and can not hover so it can never use the weapon.For the Tiger Shark it should have the following text:
Titan-killer: A model with this rule may fire a Macro type weapon whilst moving even if it is not Titanic, but on any turn in which the controlling player elects to fire a Macro weapon while moving it may not fire weapons other than those with the Macro type until the start of the controlling player's next turn.
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If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.
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Forge World
If you have a query about your order, please call
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Yeah, we are paying 70 points for those guns and then having FW tell us to banter off you can't use them. It is moronic. Just make the Flyer "Titanic", like the Eldar Vampires or decrease the cost of the base platform.
MilkmanAl wrote: It sounds really awesome the way you stated it, but that's about the same amount of damage that a fusion Commander deals for 160pts. You'd need some extra oomph in there to compensate for the Shark wounding on 2s instead of 3s or 4s, so just say 2 Commanders. That's still a 250pt savings. The TS is obviously far more.mobile, versatile, and resilient, though, so that's enough to make it a mediocre to average unit, in my mind. With the use of it's 70pts of weapons, which isn't nearly as negligible as you seem to want it to be, it'd actually be a pretty good gun platform.
Well, most stuff an AX-1-0 would shoot have T8 or more, so let's go with it. The target is a Baneblade. No markerlights and more than 9" away.
1 commander would hit 83% of the time and deal 1.67 wounds. In average (3), this will become 5 damage. Baneblades have W26, so we'll need 6 commanders to deal with it in one turn - 960p.
1 AX-1-0 will hit 67% of the time, dealing 1.33 wounds. In average (7), this will become 9.33 damage. We'd need almost 3 AX-1-0s to down it on 1 turn - 1749p
Yeah, the commanders are more capable. But the AX-1-0 and the HRC look so cool I'll give them a shot sometimes I think the Figther-Bomber is a better deal, though.
The AX-1-0 hits on a 2+, wounds on 2+ and any damage done is doubled thanks to the Macro weapon type, so 2 of them should pretty handily bring one baneblade down in a turn
My armies:
vior'la sept 12k
Erik Morkai's great company 6k
dark mechanicus, the dearth of hope, 8k
rothwyr morwan's company 1,5k
Adeptus custodes 2k
AoS, The forgotten order, SE, 3k
MilkmanAl wrote: Even the once-broken Ta'unar is now a fairly-costed or slightly expensive beast. Its firepower is pedestrian for the points, but being able to pass wounds off to drones is a stupidly useful ability for a model that size. I haven't seen one in action, but I'm going to guess that factor is worth a fair amount of extra points.
LOL...I didn't realize they gave the Taunar the "Battlesuit" Keyword. Which means that the ethereal can buff him with sense of stone and storm of fire as well. Strange as the smaller Stormsurge lacks that keyword.
MilkmanAl wrote: It sounds really awesome the way you stated it, but that's about the same amount of damage that a fusion Commander deals for 160pts. You'd need some extra oomph in there to compensate for the Shark wounding on 2s instead of 3s or 4s, so just say 2 Commanders. That's still a 250pt savings. The TS is obviously far more.mobile, versatile, and resilient, though, so that's enough to make it a mediocre to average unit, in my mind. With the use of it's 70pts of weapons, which isn't nearly as negligible as you seem to want it to be, it'd actually be a pretty good gun platform.
Well, most stuff an AX-1-0 would shoot have T8 or more, so let's go with it. The target is a Baneblade. No markerlights and more than 9" away.
1 commander would hit 83% of the time and deal 1.67 wounds. In average (3), this will become 5 damage. Baneblades have W26, so we'll need 6 commanders to deal with it in one turn - 960p.
1 AX-1-0 will hit 67% of the time, dealing 1.33 wounds. In average (7), this will become 9.33 damage. We'd need almost 3 AX-1-0s to down it on 1 turn - 1749p
Yeah, the commanders are more capable. But the AX-1-0 and the HRC look so cool I'll give them a shot sometimes I think the Figther-Bomber is a better deal, though.
The AX-1-0 hits on a 2+, wounds on 2+ and any damage done is doubled thanks to the Macro weapon type, so 2 of them should pretty handily bring one baneblade down in a turn
They have to move, so they hit on... waaaait. Macro weapons aren't Heavy! AX-1-0 hits on 2+ with everything it has (except Seekers, which are Heavy)!
Also, I did forget Macro weapons do 2x damage vs Titanic (which a Baneblade is). Recalculating...
1 AX-1-0 will hit 83% of the time, dealing 1.38 wounds. On average (7). It deals 9.68 damage, but as the target has the TITANIC keyword, it becomes 19.37 dmg. Indeed, 2 of them (1166p) will kill one Baneblade in a turn. A bit more than the commanders, but you're fielding 66% less units for 21.45% increase in price. I think the AX-1-0 is a better deal vs really big stuff (a Baneblade has the same PL of an AX-1-0, but is a bit cheaper in points - 499 vs 583, respectively)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 15:44:08
MilkmanAl wrote: It sounds really awesome the way you stated it, but that's about the same amount of damage that a fusion Commander deals for 160pts. You'd need some extra oomph in there to compensate for the Shark wounding on 2s instead of 3s or 4s, so just say 2 Commanders. That's still a 250pt savings. The TS is obviously far more.mobile, versatile, and resilient, though, so that's enough to make it a mediocre to average unit, in my mind. With the use of it's 70pts of weapons, which isn't nearly as negligible as you seem to want it to be, it'd actually be a pretty good gun platform.
Well, most stuff an AX-1-0 would shoot have T8 or more, so let's go with it. The target is a Baneblade. No markerlights and more than 9" away.
1 commander would hit 83% of the time and deal 1.67 wounds. In average (3), this will become 5 damage. Baneblades have W26, so we'll need 6 commanders to deal with it in one turn - 960p.
1 AX-1-0 will hit 67% of the time, dealing 1.33 wounds. In average (7), this will become 9.33 damage. We'd need almost 3 AX-1-0s to down it on 1 turn - 1749p
Yeah, the commanders are more capable. But the AX-1-0 and the HRC look so cool I'll give them a shot sometimes I think the Figther-Bomber is a better deal, though.
The AX-1-0 hits on a 2+, wounds on 2+ and any damage done is doubled thanks to the Macro weapon type, so 2 of them should pretty handily bring one baneblade down in a turn
Each Heavy Rail Cannon does 10.27 wounds to a Baneblade on average (don't forget the extra D3 mortal wounds on a wnd roll of 6+). So the Tiger Shark will inflict 20.513 wounds per turn. The cost per wound inflicted is 28.4 points. A fusion commander can do 5.83 damage per turn outside of 9" (assuming you are manta striking) and has a cost of 27.4 points per wound inflicted. Fusion Commander is still slightly more efficient.
MilkmanAl wrote: Even the once-broken Ta'unar is now a fairly-costed or slightly expensive beast. Its firepower is pedestrian for the points, but being able to pass wounds off to drones is a stupidly useful ability for a model that size. I haven't seen one in action, but I'm going to guess that factor is worth a fair amount of extra points.
LOL...I didn't realize they gave the Taunar the "Battlesuit" Keyword. Which means that the ethereal can buff him with sense of stone and storm of fire as well. Strange as the smaller Stormsurge lacks that keyword.
Stormsurge was called a 'ballistic suit' instead of a battlesuit in the 7th ed codex. The fact its pilots are exposed and don't use neurolinks to control it were made on purpose to differentiate it from battlesuits.
Sadly, as drones don't help vehicles with Saviour Protocols and Ethereal doesn't buff them (Ld bubble aside), Stormsurges seems to be on the bad side of LoWs. A Y'vhara costs more or less the same of a kitted Stormsurge and seems to be a much better deal
Each Heavy Rail Cannon does 10.27 wounds to a Baneblade on average (don't forget the extra D3 mortal wounds on a wnd roll of 6+). So the Tiger Shark will inflict 20.513 wounds per turn. The cost per wound inflicted is 28.4 points. A fusion commander can do 5.83 damage per turn outside of 9" (assuming you are manta striking) and has a cost of 27.4 points per wound inflicted. Fusion Commander is still slightly more efficient.
I'm not considering the +d3 mortal wounds because I'm assuming you'll roll the average on the 2 damage dice (3 and 4). But yeah, it seems pretty dope vs Titanics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 15:49:00
MilkmanAl wrote: Even the once-broken Ta'unar is now a fairly-costed or slightly expensive beast. Its firepower is pedestrian for the points, but being able to pass wounds off to drones is a stupidly useful ability for a model that size. I haven't seen one in action, but I'm going to guess that factor is worth a fair amount of extra points.
LOL...I didn't realize they gave the Taunar the "Battlesuit" Keyword. Which means that the ethereal can buff him with sense of stone and storm of fire as well. Strange as the smaller Stormsurge lacks that keyword.
Pretty sweet, right? I hadn't considered the broader implications of it having the battlesuits keyword, but savior protocols is what makes Ta'unars worthwhile in the face of things like Revenant titans and other titans of similar cost.
Tiger Sharks sounds pretty solid against titans, for sure. They might actually survive a couple rounds of shooting, too, very much unlike fusion Commanders. I really, really want them to have access to their more basic weapons, though. I hope that comes through in the next FWFAQ.
Personally I think the Macro mechanic is real dumb. For example, a Heavy Rail Cannon will do 10.27 wounds to a bane blade, but only 5.13 wounds to a Rhino, making the weapon too situational to use in standard game play. It should do the same amount of damage either way. I mean, you are paying 130 points for a single weapon. Whereas an Eldar Pulsar will do 17.01 damage to either vehicle, making the Pulsar superior in every conceivable way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 16:16:18
Indeed. You'd think a heavy rail cannon would do more damage against smaller targets, if anything. Regardless, it's a hell of a lot more expensive than it should be. The other titan weapons are significantly better. 1 big shot isn't all that impressive. It's nothing a few lascannons can't replicate.
Unusual Suspect wrote: You need to get more than 9" on the charge (9 on the dice +1" bubble) to succeed, for both the Deepstriking transport and anything disembarking from it. That happens quite rarely (somewhere around ~25-30%, or just under 50% if you can reroll charges).
It is 57%. With a rerollable charge you get the nine or above 57% of the time. Regards
Odd.
getting a 9 or higher on 2d6 happens 10 times out of 36 attempts (1/36 12s, 2/36 11s, 3/36 10s, 4/36 9s, totalling 10/36 chance of 9+).
Thus, failing to get a 9 or higher on 2d6 happens 26 times out of 36 attempts (1 - 10/36).
To fail both a roll and a reroll, you must multiply their chances of failure together = (26*26)/(36*36), or 676/1296, which in decimal form is roughly 52.2%.
You thus succeed on a charge only 47.8% (100% - 52.2%).
Unusual Suspect wrote: You need to get more than 9" on the charge (9 on the dice +1" bubble) to succeed, for both the Deepstriking transport and anything disembarking from it. That happens quite rarely (somewhere around ~25-30%, or just under 50% if you can reroll charges).
It is 57%. With a rerollable charge you get the nine or above 57% of the time. Regards
Odd.
getting a 9 or higher on 2d6 happens 10 times out of 36 attempts (1/36 12s, 2/36 11s, 3/36 10s, 4/36 9s, totalling 10/36 chance of 9+).
Thus, failing to get a 9 or higher on 2d6 happens 26 times out of 36 attempts (1 - 10/36).
To fail both a roll and a reroll, you must multiply their chances of failure together = (26*26)/(36*36), or 676/1296, which in decimal form is roughly 52.2%.
You thus succeed on a charge only 47.8% (100% - 52.2%).
What do you know, that's just under 50%!
He meant to say if you had the option to reroll both dice or just a single dice, then the chance becomes 57%
If you can only reroll a single dice its about 52%
If you're forced to reroll both dice, its about 47%
MilkmanAl wrote: Indeed. You'd think a heavy rail cannon would do more damage against smaller targets, if anything. Regardless, it's a hell of a lot more expensive than it should be. The other titan weapons are significantly better. 1 big shot isn't all that impressive. It's nothing a few lascannons can't replicate.
I would expect it to do proportional amounts of damage, generally - its probably a bigger chunk of the smaller vehicle that is getting atomized, but more of the potential destructive potency of the weapon is wasted on such a relatively weak target (like an armor-penetrating round against fleshy targets - yes, it does damage going in and going out, but a hefty portion of the destructive potential leaves the exit wound.
Hit a Titanic target, however, and even a Volcano cannon is probably not wasting much of its total destructive potential (so long as the Titan is still relatively intact), since even a Volcano Cannon is going to need a LOT of its potency to core through an entire titan.
The key, I think, is that often ANY target is either killed or extremely wounded by such weapons - sure, a Rhino is only taking ~5 damage, but that's about half you need to kill the Rhino. ~10 damage on a Baneblade... is fairly proportional. Fire both HRCs at either target, and either target is likely dead or nearly dead.
But I really don't mind that weapons designed explicitly to kill Titans kills Titans better than it kills other things - it is doing what it was intended to do!
Unusual Suspect wrote: You need to get more than 9" on the charge (9 on the dice +1" bubble) to succeed, for both the Deepstriking transport and anything disembarking from it. That happens quite rarely (somewhere around ~25-30%, or just under 50% if you can reroll charges).
It is 57%. With a rerollable charge you get the nine or above 57% of the time. Regards
Odd.
getting a 9 or higher on 2d6 happens 10 times out of 36 attempts (1/36 12s, 2/36 11s, 3/36 10s, 4/36 9s, totalling 10/36 chance of 9+).
Thus, failing to get a 9 or higher on 2d6 happens 26 times out of 36 attempts (1 - 10/36).
To fail both a roll and a reroll, you must multiply their chances of failure together = (26*26)/(36*36), or 676/1296, which in decimal form is roughly 52.2%.
You thus succeed on a charge only 47.8% (100% - 52.2%).
What do you know, that's just under 50%!
He meant to say if you had the option to reroll both dice or just a single dice, then the chance becomes 57%
If you can only reroll a single dice its about 52%
If you're forced to reroll both dice, its about 47%
Fair enough.
I'd have to look, but don't a vast majority of the rerolling charge mechanics require you to reroll both dice (not just a single die)?
CP could potentially step in for a single charge roll, but that's more exception than rule and probably shouldn't be considered the default presumption when approaching the issue of rerolling charges, no?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 19:39:04
Unusual Suspect wrote: CP could potentially step in for a single charge roll, but that's more exception than rule and probably shouldn't be considered the default presumption when approaching the issue of rerolling charges, no?
Yes, and no
Everyone has access to it, and a crucial successful charge can massively change the course of a game.
So, you can't deny it's usage.
Especially since without it, your chance of a 9+ charge is only like 28%
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/11 20:00:25
I have around 3k of Tau, and two Y'vahra. I'm honestly curious how to even work a list using them (I didn't even buy the index, based on how people were taking the state of Tau.)
Might anyone have any reassuring words, or advice for me with Tau, specifically potentially using both Y'vahra.
I've been consumed with Daemons for quite some time, and need to ease back into Tau for some variety.
Cephalobeard wrote: I have around 3k of Tau, and two Y'vahra. I'm honestly curious how to even work a list using them (I didn't even buy the index, based on how people were taking the state of Tau.)
Might anyone have any reassuring words, or advice for me with Tau, specifically potentially using both Y'vahra.
I've been consumed with Daemons for quite some time, and need to ease back into Tau for some variety.
Y'Vahra are, in my opinion, the strongest possible unit choice for Tau, with Quad Fusion Commanders a close second. I plan on running two Y'Vahra is my own list, with three QFC backed up by hordes of Kroot, Gun Drones, and possibly two squads of Breachers.
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
Looking at what's available, it's one of the few competitive choices the Tau have been left with since GW boned every other battlesuit we have. Even then, we're paying 403 points with ATS for our Y'Vahra (this won't stop people complaining about it though). Regular Riptides are paperweights now, and the SS is overcosted and ineffective. Triple-flamer Crisis Suits are interesting, waiting to hear more results about those.
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
Yeah. I was sitting pretty on 9 Crisis Suits, 3 Riptides, Two Y'vahra and a Commander from 7th, as well as around 16 drones. Been trying to figure out my next starting point.
In my next Tau game, I'm going to try an ultra-aggressive list involving 2 Y'Vahras, a couple fusion Commanders, and a whole bunch of Gun Drones. I'm planning to have a couple units of Kroot to screen out early deep strikers trying to piss on my battlesuit parade. I may run a couple Stealth teams for drone controllers and a little extra mobility. That's pretty much it. I think a unit of Pathfinders will find its way in since rerolling 1s is pretty darn nice on things with BS2+, and I want my fusion drops to be as reliable as possible.
I haven't fleshed it out yet, but here's a rough plan for 2000:
Outrider
Commander - 4 fusions, 2 gun drones - 176
23 Gun Drones in 3 units - 184
1994 total
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like I got ninja'd a little there thanks to life getting in the way, but suffice it to say, I think that in-your-face is probably the way we're going to play unless the codex changes something dramatically. We don't have a lot of good gun line options unless you count massed Strikers, and the mobile, short ranged firepower we have can be brutal. That fits my personal style, so I'm digging it. I do wish they'd relax the nerf on some of the big suits so we could have a few more options, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 20:49:25
Aaranis wrote: All right guys I finally got the time to finish writing my first draft list, I tried to include a mix of units I loved and good deal boxes like the Start Collecting and Optimised Pathfinder Team, but I quickly ended up with looots of points (especially when I included two teams of Crisis suits) so I tried that list. I like Broadsides but I don't know how to fit them in this 2000 pts list, and I don't know if I have enough damage dealer weapons to take care of 10+ W vehicles and monsters, you tell me. I'll explain my choices and the roles I intend them to fill.
TACTICS:
So the idea is to have these 10 Pulse Carbines FW in a nice position, alongside the Pathfinders with the PA and Grav drones and the Ethereal hidden somewhere with them to give them rerolls of 1 to Hit. Longstrike, preferably in a cozy firing position behind the lines. The Fireblade will accompany the two min squads of Pulse Carbines FW, using his markerlights when he can for the teams to use. The 10 Breachers will go in the Devilfish and disembark along the two drones of the Devilfish on a key position to disrupt the enemy's firing line or support units.
The Ghostkeel would infiltrate in a manner as to take some attention from my main battleforce, to give them one turn or two to position well enough as to be the most effective. I gave him the Cyclic Ion Raker because I feel it's enough firepower to deal with elite units while the two Fusion Blasters are still there in case of a need for can opening. Now the XV25 suits, I think this will be tricky if it's even possible but my hypothesis is that I could use them nicely. The key being to infiltrate them somewhere close enough to the enemy's big guns, and have them survive a turn to close the distance to them and put on a Homing Beacon to deliver the Crisis Team with their Fusion Blasters, Cyclic Ion Blaster and Missile Pod. I had one with 2 Flamers to deal with the bubblewrap, and a Shield Generator to eat eventual returning fire a little easier if I fail to destroy my target at once. I bought VT in case of flyers, it's not a lot of points and loads of stuff have the Fly keyword nowadays. It's bonus if I successfully marklight the target beforehand.
I'd use the Kroots as one massive force supporting itself and taking some heat on them instead of my shiny gunline. If they don't shoot the Kroots they have an overpopulation problem anyway. Now I notice the Shaper don't have the Scout move but still this can work, I'd place him between all of his Kroots if possible so they can benefit from the Ld and rerolls of 1 to Wound, as it affects shooting attacks too this could be interesting. What would be perfect would be to be able to proc the Ritual Blade kill to forgo the Morale phase that could seriously hurt them, but that looks rather unfeasable.
The Piranhas would be used to troll, as you suggested earlier. Maybe even pick up far objectives, who knows ? They're cheap and reasonably tough. The second Pathfinder team would try to find a cozy spot to mark targets for the others and occasionaly get a shot with the Rail Rifle. I love Rail guns, have I told you yet ? As for Darkstrider, I hesitate between placing him with the Breacher team and the big squad of Pulse Rifles and Pathfinders with their Ethereal, it would be a fluffier choice than to have the scout leader enter a building like a SWAT team don't you think ?
The things I'm not sure about:
- Number and disposition of Markerlights: I have a grand total of 12 Markerlights sources, I'm not sure that's enough but I'm not loaded on Seeker Missiles neither, so I think I have the right number but you tell me.
- HQ choices: I fear Longstrike may be nice but that you guys love the Coldstar Commander, I reckon I just checked the points and saw he was not really expensive points-wise so I'll consider. What would he bring me ? How to use Kauyon or Mont'ka to the best with my list ?
- Quantity of heavy firepower: Do I have enough at 2000 pts or do I need more ? There's considerably more than my AdMech and my AdMech doesn't have enough firepower yet, so I'm conflicted.
- The loadout of all Battlesuits: I have no idea if my choices are really efficient, I payed the 40 pts Shield for the Ghostkeel because I feel he'll be eating lead as soon as first turn and there's so many Lascannons, a 4++ should be nice. As for the Crisis suits, I planned on using two teams with a similar versatile loadout (one more troop-killing than the other, more vehicle-killing) but it costed loads of points and I felt I lacked numbers for my army. Small elite armies die rather quickly most of the time, except for Super-Heavies lists of course, so I love having loads of guys.
Please tell me your opinion on this, I need your experience and different minds may provide other points of view that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise Thanks for taking the time to read all this and helping me !
Anyone have the time to help me with this ? I'm quite lost as of now if that list is nice or not. Thanks in advance
MilkmanAl wrote: In my next Tau game, I'm going to try an ultra-aggressive list involving 2 Y'Vahras, a couple fusion Commanders, and a whole bunch of Gun Drones. I'm planning to have a couple units of Kroot to screen out early deep strikers trying to piss on my battlesuit parade. I may run a couple Stealth teams for drone controllers and a little extra mobility. That's pretty much it. I think a unit of Pathfinders will find its way in since rerolling 1s is pretty darn nice on things with BS2+, and I want my fusion drops to be as reliable as possible.
I haven't fleshed it out yet, but here's a rough plan for 2000:
Outrider
Commander - 4 fusions, 2 gun drones - 176
23 Gun Drones in 3 units - 184
1994 total
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like I got ninja'd a little there thanks to life getting in the way, but suffice it to say, I think that in-your-face is probably the way we're going to play unless the codex changes something dramatically. We don't have a lot of good gun line options unless you count massed Strikers, and the mobile, short ranged firepower we have can be brutal. That fits my personal style, so I'm digging it. I do wish they'd relax the nerf on some of the big suits so we could have a few more options, though.
Extremely similar line of thinking, though I will be passing on Markerlights (the table is just too crappy, and nothing in this list will really benefit from it most of the time) and Stealth Suits in favor of more Drones. My thinking is that the Commanders and Y'Vahras fry all the biggest threats immediately, while my blobs of infantry take and hold objectives while skirmishing from a distance with things they can reliably kill. I truly think this is the best way to go with the Tau outside of spamming 9+ Commanders or 100+ Kroot Hounds.
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"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
Generally speaking, I'd have enough markers to reliably drop 5 on a tough target turn 1, but that's it. Maybe 15 Pathfinders, at the absolute most. After that, they're just there for spreading around rerolls of 1s.
Longstrike I feel is underrated by many on these boards. He's a solid choice, but he's not nearly as good as Commanders. The Coldstar is merely okay, in my estimation. The movement is certainly nice, but it's nothing you can't get elsewhere on a less expensive platform.
As for Kauyon (don't see much reason to use Mont'ka, honestly), you're probably going to be best served by clustering your forward units as much as possible to get those rerolls. You could clump all your FW, I suppose, but rerolling all your small arms fire is a mediocre use of such a powerful 1-shot ability.
In terms of heavy fire, you're a little on the light side. You may focus more on fusions on the Crisis Suits. Otherwise, the amount of small arms you have should see you through.
The shield gen isn't wasted on the Ghostkeel, but you might be better off saving those 40pts. I'm not sure, really. Give it a shot and see if it works well enough to warrant using.
Extremely similar line of thinking, though I will be passing on Markerlights (the table is just too crappy, and nothing in this list will really benefit from it most of the time) and Stealth Suits in favor of more Drones.
Eh, I think 80pts is a worthwhile investment for game-long rerolls of 1s. To each his own, though. As for Stealth Suits, I'll likely cut back to 1 unit for an extra 15 drones. That's a rather lopsided trade, and I figure that Stealth unit can pawn hits to drones as necessary to get the drones in firing range. I do definitely want a DC around, though. That's a gigantic increase in effectiveness for a very small cost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/11 21:11:51
What do you guys think about Ghostkeels? This may have already been covered. But they seem like a fairly cheap big guy that has some survivability and damage output. Looks fun to me. (I got one I just haven't built it yet).
I'd have to look, but don't a vast majority of the rerolling charge mechanics require you to reroll both dice (not just a single die)?
Top left on page 178 of the rulebook it says
Some rules allow you to
re-roll a dice roll, which
means you get to roll
some or all of the dice
again. You can never
re-roll a dice more than
once, and re-rolls happen
before modifiers (if any)
are applied.
This suggests that the player gets to decide the number of dice rerolled. Or at least that is the view of most Ork players
At any rate deepstrike screening is quickly becoming an important part of 8th edition meta.
Tpiddy wrote: What do you guys think about Ghostkeels? This may have already been covered. But they seem like a fairly cheap big guy that has some survivability and damage output. Looks fun to me. (I got one I just haven't built it yet).
I think Keels are a really good middle ground unit. They're tough, reasonably pricy, and have okay shooting. I like them most with Ion rakers deployed in the middle of the table being disruptive. I usually play two that way, at 161 points each. They're great at being targets to deal with. If ignored, good, they'll shoot stuff. If focused, good, they're tough and those are shots not going into other things.
/ BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union
Yeah, we are paying 70 points for those guns and then having 
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