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Lots of ideas swirling thanks to these rumors!

1. We can spam CP really well. Since Fire Warriors are pretty great now, there's really no tax for Battalions at all. Even Brigades are relatively tax-free, though they do obviously prevent unit spam to a large degree. You can easily fit a Brigade and a Battalion in 2000pts with some points to play with.

2. If the twin HBC Hammerhead variant becomes heavy 24(!), hammerhead spam may well become popular. For 185 pts, including a SMS, that's a crazy amount of BS2 firepower. You might have to make them Tau Sept instead of Borkan (Boo!), But at least you'll never, ever get charged that way.

3. Pathfinders with ion rifles are so, so good now. Overcharging for 2 damage makes a world of difference. Might we see loads of Pathfinder spam?

4. Y'Vahra spam. With deep striking drones, it can happen. You'll have to keep a bunch in your DZ to prevent alpha strike disasters, but dropping in units of gun drones wherever you need some body guards can keep your glass cannons alive.

5. Of course, fire warrior spam. Oh God, fire warrior spam. I believe you can potentially dump enough S5 on any army to have a fighting chance. If you're really dedicated, you could have 150+ of them supported with Commanders for anti-vehicle punch, some fireblades and pulse accelerators. Damn.

Just off the top of my head:

3 bor"kan battalions

3 commanders
2 fireblades
1 ethereal
6 12 man fire warrior squads
3 kroot squads
2 riptides


Splash weapons on the commanders as need be and pick up a few marker drones on the fireblades.


Pretty mean list, and 12 command points to blow.

If the rumour about coldstar can take any weapons is true it's going to be insane, imagine coldstar with fusion blaster. Good heavens if fusion blades are a thing that be amazing!

But I have a sneaky suspicion his movement will be limited to 16" with auto 6" advance...

Tau brigade will be great, like 0 tac units.

6 strike team
Commander, ethereal, fireblade
3x3 ion pathfinder
3x middle side

Elite as you like, burst tide looks like a winner to me, ghostkeels with shield gen looks great as well.

Than have fast attack detachements for the extra commanders (kroot hounds, more pathfinder, gun drones...

- Can somebody explain what the bork'an trait is doing? Don't understand the wording.

- why do people still hate on the IA Tide? I think the buff to the IA + Point reductions make it pretty damn good. I used it with the index in friendly games so.etimes and it already did well there.

- Ion Heads seem to be great,any other oppinions?

- so glad we do not need to / are able to spam commanders and mixed lists seem viable!

- I think Ion Crisis will be very good with 3 weapons each. Insane amount of dakka and can easily be buffed by Markerlights.

All Bork"an sept weapons that have rapid fire or heavy gain +6" to their range.

Pulse rifles go to 36", plasma goes to 30", and so on. This means fire warriors now fire 3 times from 18" away if a fireblade is nearbye.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
All Bork"an sept weapons that have rapid fire or heavy gain +6" to their range.

Pulse rifles go to 36", plasma goes to 30", and so on. This means fire warriors now fire 3 times from 18" away if a fireblade is nearbye.

If pulse accelerator drones still work the same fire warriors Bork'an would be 36 +6 so 42 and 21 rapid fire, that could be real nasty with fireblade bonus if there is a strat to double shoot firewarriors I can see a lot of fire warriors seeing tables for the first time in a while.

Sorry, I meant the warlord trait.

Aeri wrote:
Sorry, I meant the warlord trait.

I think it's +1 to wound but to codex or the rumours writing is a bit wonky

Confirmed bork'an y'varhas are bonkers with the sept strategem.

www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/06/tau-preview-borkan-septgw-homepage-post-3/

I think im gonna use B'orkans rules to my custom sept. Only problem is i was designing my list around being mech + suits. However i could use my 2 devil fish to go grab objectives

So, the question is... Is a Riptide, with HBC, SMS, Target Lock and ATS worth the rumoured 309 points?

Borkan Y'Vahras. Wow.

So, the question is... Is a Riptide, with HBC, SMS, Target Lock and ATS worth the rumoured 309 points?

Actually, wouldn't it be 270 pts? I'd say it's probably worth it.

Kdash wrote:
So, the question is... Is a Riptide, with HBC, SMS, Target Lock and ATS worth the rumoured 309 points?

I generally compare big ticket items to the equivalent points in squishies. 309 points now buys you 44 Fire Warriors that can potentially pump out 132 shots inside 21". That doesn't necessarily make the Riptide 'bad' but it's one way to look at it. Different units with different roles, I know, but I find I'm easily seduced by volume dakka.

Kdash wrote:
So, the question is... Is a Riptide, with HBC, SMS, Target Lock and ATS worth the rumoured 309 points?

Warhammer Community just previewed the double nova boost stratagem. It's 1 CP.

So, have a 3++ and that HBC goes to Heavy 18 S6 -2 2 with ATS for the cost of a CP and a Mortal Wound.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Borkan Y'Vahras. Wow.

So, the question is... Is a Riptide, with HBC, SMS, Target Lock and ATS worth the rumoured 309 points?

Actually, wouldn't it be 270 pts? I'd say it's probably worth it.

My bad.... would be 285 - missed off the decrease from the tide itself. -24 for tide, -10 for hbc, -5 for sms and +10 for ats.

If nothing else, this reveal has me hopeful that our other strats will be cool and useful. The ones yesterday didn't do much for me, but both of these are really cool and will see a lot of use in my lists, I think.

Kdash wrote:
So, the question is... Is a Riptide, with HBC, SMS, Target Lock and ATS worth the rumoured 309 points?

It probably is, I think. It's got decent firepower for its price, though arguably not great durability.

The Ion accelerator option is also pretty interesting. It doesn't really need an ATS, which allows for other options in that support slot. I think you probably want SMS with the HBC and something else - probably fusion - with the IA.

The cost is still very high. It remains to be seen whether they are worth it.

So technically with the riptide strategem you can overcharge and jump. So it's bring jsj back although it costs a mortal wound and a CP.

 FirePainter wrote:
So technically with the riptide strategem you can overcharge and jump. So it's bring jsj back although it costs a mortal wound and a CP.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the overcharge and the 3++ myself 90% of the time.

It all depends on setup and screening though.

Aeri wrote:
- Can somebody explain what the bork'an trait is doing? Don't understand the wording.

- why do people still hate on the IA Tide? I think the buff to the IA + Point reductions make it pretty damn good. I used it with the index in friendly games so.etimes and it already did well there.

- Ion Heads seem to be great,any other oppinions?

- so glad we do not need to / are able to spam commanders and mixed lists seem viable!

- I think Ion Crisis will be very good with 3 weapons each. Insane amount of dakka and can easily be buffed by Markerlights.

1. I think it's just +1 to wound, right? Very weird wording in the rumor.

2. The Iontide is still really expensive for what it does. The easiest comparison is a lascannon predator which, even figuring the overcharged nova profile in, registers about the same amount of hits with a similar weapon for 3/5 the cost. Those extra points get you a couple SMS and a bit of extra durability (which is questionable due to how often the 'Tide hurts itself). Meanwhile, the nova HBC is a phenomenal everything killer for 35 fewer points. I haven't crunched the numbers, but I'm going to baselessly assert that the HBC is a much better all-around choice and might even be better against heavy targets.

3. Ionheads are mediocre at best. Even with the points drop, they don't put out the damage you'd want from a 180+ point model. Also, you have the twin HBC variant that may soon boast 24 shots from its main weapon for just a few more points. I'd much rather have the latter.

4. Agreed. I'll still be running a few Commanders since they're an amazing way to drop in and nuke something, but variety is always more fun.

5. CIB Crisis Suits seem to be all the rage over on ATT, and while they certainly got a boost, I'm not convinced they're worth 87pts apiece. Maybe if you use a FSE detachment with one big unit and pop the +1 BS on drop strat they're rumored to have they'd be worthwhile?

True but using the jump could get you in range of something next turn without getting a -1 for moving. The 3++ is generally more useful but negating the -1 for moving with a heavy weapon could be nice at times.

I'm on board with being disappointed with Crisis Suits. I love a horde army as much as anyone, but I was kind of hoping to be able to make a time limit friendly list with the Suits.

I think 12 for gun drones is a bit of an overreaction.

12 is maybe a point or two too high, but if they deep strike, that can cure a lot of ills really quickly. Protection for suits plus a wicked barrage of firepower is a potent combo.

knowing what you know about the weapons point changes how would you still run crisis suits if you have them....why do I feel 3 with 2 burst cannons are the best bet for hurting something.

ballzonya wrote:
knowing what you know about the weapons point changes how would you still run crisis suits if you have them....why do I feel 3 with 2 burst cannons are the best bet for hurting something.

I think ions will be the best. The boost to overcharging will let them reliably damage light tanks and heavy infantry.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Don't forget Borkan Y'Vahras with their 14" flamers. I mean, WTF. Speaking of auto-includes...

Quoted for truth. And those double nova chargers.....

Mandragola wrote:

Kdash wrote:
So, the question is... Is a Riptide, with HBC, SMS, Target Lock and ATS worth the rumoured 309 points?

It probably is, I think. It's got decent firepower for its price, though arguably not great durability.

The Ion accelerator option is also pretty interesting. It doesn't really need an ATS, which allows for other options in that support slot. I think you probably want SMS with the HBC and something else - probably fusion - with the IA.

The cost is still very high. It remains to be seen whether they are worth it.

190 points for 4 lascannon shots at 3+, t7 s+ 11 W, 285 for 3 w more 1 better armor, worse bs base, for statistically still less damage (3.5 shots still at bs 3,) s8 , or 3.5 shots at same str 3 set damage, but each 1 is another mortal wound, or nova 1 guaranteed wound for heavy 6 s8 d3 damage ( so 12 potential damage) or still mortal wound for each 1 rolled 6 shots of s9 set 3 dmage..

its damage potential is slightly more consistent, but its max is lower, harder to 50% obscure, will hurt itself rather often, and chew through cp if using that strategem. i'd say 100 riptides vs ~120 quad-las preds, las preds will take the victory
and real talk for points it would be closer to 135 las preds vs 100 riptides

Tau Sept gun drones in a firebase with Fireblade will be nasty Overwatch.

Not too keen that static gunline might be the strength of the codex.

Might? They've been pushing that really, really hard in 8th.
Now, I'm not entirely sure why that's the case, but it is.

Anyone else think we might have to start a new tactics thread for post-codex? This thread has served well, and I appreciate the work people have done here, but there's soon more to discover and test.