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Vior'la sept is up and I see some good synergy with breachers, vior'la sept and the shoot twice stratagem. Add in the Breaacher stratagem to make heads roll.

Viorla Breachers with some Fireblade support could be a fun way to go. Since Devilfish are actually usable, it won't break you to have them all loaded up and cruising across the battlefield. It doesn't matter as much that they're not going to be doing anything for a couple turns since they're so bloody cheap. A Breacher-based mech army could be fun to mess around with.

Speaking of breacher-based mech army, or just close ranged tau in general, this is what I'm considering trying out:

Viorla Battalion

Aun'shi
Coldstar Commander 2x Fusion (hopefully) with Seismic relic

10x breachers, DS8 turret SMS, Guardian Drone
10x breachers, DS8 turret SMS, Guardian Drone
5x strikes, DS8 turret SMS

Devilfish w/gun drones, burst and Seeker
Devilfish w/gun drones, burst and Seeker

10x Pathfinders 3x Rail Rifles, 2x marker drones
5x Pathfinders 3x Ion Rifles, 2x marker drones+Recon Drone

Farsight Vanguard

Commander Farsight (might swap for basic fusion commander with fusion blades)

6x Stealth Suits, 2x Gun Drones, Homing Beacon
3x Crisis Suits with 4x Shield Drones, ATS, 3x CIBs each
Riptide HBC+2 Fusions, ATS
Ghostkeel Fusion Collider 2x Fusions+Stealth Drones

With point drops that seems to work out to 2k. Going for maximum close range firepower/melee Tau madness.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Viorla Breachers with some Fireblade support could be a fun way to go. Since Devilfish are actually usable, it won't break you to have them all loaded up and cruising across the battlefield. It doesn't matter as much that they're not going to be doing anything for a couple turns since they're so bloody cheap. A Breacher-based mech army could be fun to mess around with.

I don't think fireblades work with breachers. Your best bet is to take them and a bunch of pulse rifles.

It'll be interesting to see whether it works best to have a horde of fire warriors on foot or less of them in devilfish. On foot they seem vulnerable to getting swamped, and the fish does have a fair bit of shooting of its own to compensate for having fewer guys. One advantage of a fish-based approach is that you can have a lot fewer drops with a brigade, by putting 2 units of FWs, breachers or pathfinders into 4 fish. Characters can get in there too.

Borkan pulse rifles near a pulse accelerator drone have a 42" range, which could remove the need to transport them. 3 shots at 21" from a 7 point guy would get a lot of work done.

Shadowsun is hard to love. Look at that warlord trait: reroll to hit if she's standing still. She's an infiltrator with fusion blasters - what's she doing standing still? Also, if she actually is standing still, it's so she can call Kauyon - which she can do twice... giving her rerolls to hit. On top of which, she comes with a drone that lets her make a unit reroll 1s to hit.

Despite all of that I think there's still arguably a case for taking her. Rerolls to hit two turns in a row for a castle, containing say a couple of broadside units, some riptides and/or maybe a stormsurge, would make a big difference. Ionheads would like it too. Combined with the focused fire stratagem, the shooting would be very nasty.

I've got a FW XV89. I might make it into a crisis commander, stick some missile pods on it and task it to sit around in my deployment zone, calling Kayon in turn 1. I'd give it the "Through Unity, Devastation" warlord trait and pop focused fire. +1 to wound makes a big difference when you've got rail weapons doing mortal wounds and other stuff getting -1ap. It does make missilesides look increasingly good though - if stuff is in range. In fact there's a case for leaving the guns off the commander altogether, and just having him give missilesides rerolls to wound. Edit: maybe that's what shadowsun does - nothing, but call kauyon twice on broadsides while using the CNC node strat.

It's really hard to decide on a sept, still (which is a good thing I guess). The focused fire stratagem really does seem very good though, so I can see that being the decisive factor.

My first list I am thinking something like this:


Should be 1998 with new points. No drones for protection is an issue but it puts out a good amount of fire power and has a decent body count.

The Vior'la sept trait is better than the leaks suggested as it only turns the rapid fire weapons into assault when you advance.

So you maintain the benefits of rapid fire double tap at half range when moving normally and can use extra movement from advancing to pull back whilst still firing at full accuracy.

Also, hilariously GW are advising people to build quadfusion coldstar suits. So they are telling people to build the most OP commander build whilst apparently feeling that quadfusion commanders were so OP without being able to move 40" in a turn that they needed to be restricted to one per detachment.

I don't think fireblades work with breachers

I think you're correct. Boo.

It'll be interesting to see whether it works best to have a horde of fire warriors on foot or less of them in devilfish.

At 118 pts for 2 SMS and a burst cannon, a Devilfish is actually a legit durable source of firepower. It's taking the place of 17 Fire Warriors, which is a questionable trade, but it would get the units it's carrying within that awesome 18" or 21" Borkan triple tap range on turn 2, guaranteed. Taking the midfield would be pretty easy, and you'd have a few flying tanks hanging out obstructing movement and spewing out missiles in their spare time.

On the other hand, FW are reasonably speedy in their own right, so it may be better to just have them hoof it into position and fire as they go. As you said, 36/42 inches is great range for a staple troop.

It's really hard to decide on a sept

Not for me. My choices will be Borkan, Borkan, and Borkan. Everything else might as well not exist. I'm open to playing around with Viorla and FSE with gimmick lists tailored to them, though.

The focused fire stratagem really does seem very good

Really? I feel like it's overpirced by a good CP. That said, we're really good at generating CP and don't have all that much to spend them on. Those strats...aren't great. You've got your die reroll per turn from the BRB and extra markers. That's pretty much it.

Edit:
List i'm mulling:

Borkan Brigade x2
Coldstar - 4 fusions - 174
Fireblade - 42
3x5 FW - 105

642 for both

Borkan Outrider
Coldstar - 4 fusions - 174
2 Y'Vahras - EWO, ATS - 846 (I assume)
3x5 Pathfinders - 3 ion rifles - 156
15 Gun Drones - 180

1998 in total

It's very light on protection for the Commanders and Y'Vahras, so I may well scrap the pathfinders for a mix of Marker and Gun Drones. Oddly, those 6 Pathfinders should be all the markers you really need. Rerolling 1's to hit on the Commanders is where it's at. The FW can just use shot volume. Thoughts?

the_scotsman wrote:
Speaking of breacher-based mech army, or just close ranged tau in general, this is what I'm considering trying out:


3x Crisis Suits with 4x Shield Drones, ATS, 3x CIBs each

That would be either ATS + 2CIBs or 3CIBs no ATS. Crisis only have 3 hard points each.

I like the list Milk. Double y'varha is killer and all that really matters is turn 1. You can cripple multiple big targets and the rest is clean up. Not going first though.......

MilkmanAl wrote:

The focused fire stratagem really does seem very good

Really? I feel like it's overpirced by a good CP. That said, we're really good at generating CP and don't have all that much to spend them on. Those strats...aren't great. You've got your die reroll per turn from the BRB and extra markers. That's pretty much it.

Edit:
List i'm mulling:

Borkan Brigade x2
Coldstar - 4 fusions - 174
Fireblade - 42
3x5 FW - 105

642 for both

Borkan Outrider
Coldstar - 4 fusions - 174
2 Y'Vahras - EWO, ATS - 846 (I assume)
3x5 Pathfinders - 3 ion rifles - 156
15 Gun Drones - 180

1998 in total

It's very light on protection for the Commanders and Y'Vahras, so I may well scrap the pathfinders for a mix of Marker and Gun Drones. Oddly, those 6 Pathfinders should be all the markers you really need. Rerolling 1's to hit on the Commanders is where it's at. The FW can just use shot volume. Thoughts?

Yeah I do think focused fire is that good. If you want to bring down Magnus, Morty, a cusdodes unit, a plaguebearer blob or a knight, focused fire will make your job a lot easier. Getting +1 to wound is just that big a bonus.

I'm not arguing, even for a second, that Borkan isn't a great sept. It's obviously really really good. A borkan commander with the devastation warlord trait, popping kauyon and the CNC strat, would do an awful lot of good for some missilesides. Focused fire might not be as good as an extra 6" of range on those HYMPs. But then railsides would get their extra mortal wounds quite a lot more often too.

Given how the meta is right now, full of daemons and flyrants that rely more on invulnerable saves than armour, I think an approach based on ion and missile saturation is likely to be better than one based on railguns. I'm pretty sure someone did some maths earlier to show that a quad CIB commander is now just better than a quad fusion one, for example.

 FirePainter wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
Devilfish base cost is down. Its112 with stuff so a small reduction but nice.

Whaaaaa! This is not cheap :O It's a transport for crying out loud! 112 is dangerously close to tank points! Like actual tank.

Well a rhino is 72 points with a storm bolter and carries 10 @ 10 T7 3+ wounds while a devilfish is 112 for 8 S5 shots and carries 12 @ 12 T7 3+ wounds. Seems reasonable to me

Isnt this near razorback territory while it also flys, cant get locked in combat and possibly moves faster?

Anyone who has ever used Veterans of the long War knows how strong Focused fire will be. Especially when the basic guy shoots at str 5. This is a huge difference when you want to kill the big baddies. Imagine Striker teams triple tapping and wounding at 4's. What's more, the Focused fire stratagem really rewards focusing down specific things. And guess what? So do markerlights. Between these two, I really think that if Tau want something dead right now, that something will most certainly die.

 Desubot wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
Devilfish base cost is down. Its112 with stuff so a small reduction but nice.

Whaaaaa! This is not cheap :O It's a transport for crying out loud! 112 is dangerously close to tank points! Like actual tank.

Well a rhino is 72 points with a storm bolter and carries 10 @ 10 T7 3+ wounds while a devilfish is 112 for 8 S5 shots and carries 12 @ 12 T7 3+ wounds. Seems reasonable to me

Isnt this near razorback territory while it also flys, cant get locked in combat and possibly moves faster?

I think the razorback has better gun options and access to reroll buffs. A razorback with twin asscannon has 12 S6 -1 shots at better BS for 114.

@Mandragola 4 ion would be nice if we could put it on a coldstars but since it's limited to normal commanders it is not quite as good. The mobility if the coldstars is just too good.

the cosmic serpent wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Speaking of breacher-based mech army, or just close ranged tau in general, this is what I'm considering trying out:


3x Crisis Suits with 4x Shield Drones, ATS, 3x CIBs each

That would be either ATS + 2CIBs or 3CIBs no ATS. Crisis only have 3 hard points each.

Good catch. I forgot the systems take up a hardpoint. I think i'd probably go with maximum gunsiness for them and plan on giving them tons of support the turn they arrive through CPs and other shenanigans.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I'll probably ditch Farsight and run a second commander for 2x fusion + fusion blades, in the beefiest toughest battlesuit build I can make. My army is officially based on a Viorla sept battlegroup lost in the fourth sphere expansion, who've emerged from the warp with some unconventional tech and a bit more of a Pacific Rim attitude towards combat. So it'd be more fluff friendly to not have Farsight in there actually running around with them. Plus, finecrap, what is it good for (absolutely nothing, ungh).

Problem with saying you have to figure in markerlight costs is that with a limit on commanders, we need markerlights for our army anyways.

CP are easy to come by. I'm working with 15 and the puretide chip. No Tau army should have less than 9 and a puretide.

Broadsides are decent AT and AI, but not good at either. They're fairly durable, but again, not exceptional.

The more I do the math on them and consider how they fit into an army, the less I like them. Same goes for most of the suits. A single riptide has a lot of potential with the double nova charge.

the_scotsman wrote:

the cosmic serpent wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Speaking of breacher-based mech army, or just close ranged tau in general, this is what I'm considering trying out:


3x Crisis Suits with 4x Shield Drones, ATS, 3x CIBs each

That would be either ATS + 2CIBs or 3CIBs no ATS. Crisis only have 3 hard points each.

Good catch. I forgot the systems take up a hardpoint. I think i'd probably go with maximum gunsiness for them and plan on giving them tons of support the turn they arrive through CPs and other shenanigans.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I'll probably ditch Farsight and run a second commander for 2x fusion + fusion blades, in the beefiest toughest battlesuit build I can make. My army is officially based on a Viorla sept battlegroup lost in the fourth sphere expansion, who've emerged from the warp with some unconventional tech and a bit more of a Pacific Rim attitude towards combat. So it'd be more fluff friendly to not have Farsight in there actually running around with them. Plus, finecrap, what is it good for (absolutely nothing, ungh).

It wouldn't be unfluffy for Farsight to work with these guys to acquire new tech. He is likely to have sympathizers within Vior'la as that was his home sept before he went renegade, which is how they explain FSE gaining access to riptides. I'm considering running a small detachment with him from time to time. My army is already painted up Vior'la I figure for occasional battles Farsight can show up as part of a "tech swap" with a crisis team acting as his bodyguard. Could be fun.

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I do think focused fire is that good. If you want to bring down Magnus, Morty, a cusdodes unit, a plaguebearer blob or a knight, focused fire will make your job a lot easier. Getting +1 to wound is just that big a bonus.

Combined with Through Unity, Destruction and the Structural Analyzer from the Darkstrider, as a non-Tau player this appears extremely nasty.

Milk has the right idea.

Coldstars + YVharas, and then Trooptaxes + Markerlights + HQtaxes + FillLastPointsWithDrones

Continuing on the theme of the Tau sept, I do like the look of longstrike, plus a couple of ionside friends.

I'm picturing a firebase constructed around Longstrike, an XV8 commander with Through Unity Destruction and a drone controller (and a shield, and maybe no guns!), 3 missilesides with VTs, 6 missile drones (maybe) and a decent-sized unit of marker drones.

That fills out two HQs, all the HS and one FA slot from a brigade. So on top of that I'd take strike squads, a fireblade as my 3rd HQ and some cheap-ish FA and elite stuff - quite likely drones and stealths.

I'm still debating shadowsun. She wins the relic mission, by deploying on it and running like hell. She's just not allowed to be warlord, and would have to be in some other detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I put the list together to see what it would look like. Not actually super-impressed. Those broadsides are way expensive! I wonder if this army would actually be better built as two battalions, or a battalion and a spearhead, as I'm not getting huge value out of my elites and fast attack.

Commander 83
Drone Controller
Shield Generator

Cadre Fireblade 42
Markerlight

Longstrike 202
Ion Cannon
2 Smart Missile Systems

5 Fire Warriors 35

6 Fire Warriors 42

6 Fire Warriors 42

6 Fire Warriors 42

10 Kroot 50

10 Kroot 50

4 Gun Drones 48

4 Gun Drones 48

6 Marker Drones 60

3 Broadsides 456
6 High-yield Missile Pods
6 Smart missile Systems
3 Advanced Targeting Systems

Hammerhead Gunship 165
Ion Cannon
2 Smart Missile Systems

Hammerhead Gunship 159
Ion Cannon
2 Gun Drones

Devilfish 112
Burst Cannon
2 Gun Drones

Devilfish 112
Burst Cannon
2 Gun Drones

3 Stealths 84
3 Burst Cannons

3 Stealths 84
3 Burst Cannons

3 Stealths 84
3 Burst Cannons

If I'm honest, looking at the list, I think I've disproved my own hypothesis on broadsides. 450 points is an awful lot to spend on a unit - especially one that lacks the fly keyword. There's just no need to put all my eggs in one basket like that.

The ionheads with longstrike look decent, but I think I need to make better use of those elite slots. I'll have another think and try to do something involving ghostkeels, or maybe riptides.

the cosmic serpent wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

the cosmic serpent wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Speaking of breacher-based mech army, or just close ranged tau in general, this is what I'm considering trying out:


3x Crisis Suits with 4x Shield Drones, ATS, 3x CIBs each

That would be either ATS + 2CIBs or 3CIBs no ATS. Crisis only have 3 hard points each.

Good catch. I forgot the systems take up a hardpoint. I think i'd probably go with maximum gunsiness for them and plan on giving them tons of support the turn they arrive through CPs and other shenanigans.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I'll probably ditch Farsight and run a second commander for 2x fusion + fusion blades, in the beefiest toughest battlesuit build I can make. My army is officially based on a Viorla sept battlegroup lost in the fourth sphere expansion, who've emerged from the warp with some unconventional tech and a bit more of a Pacific Rim attitude towards combat. So it'd be more fluff friendly to not have Farsight in there actually running around with them. Plus, finecrap, what is it good for (absolutely nothing, ungh).

It wouldn't be unfluffy for Farsight to work with these guys to acquire new tech. He is likely to have sympathizers within Vior'la as that was his home sept before he went renegade, which is how they explain FSE gaining access to riptides. I'm considering running a small detachment with him from time to time. My army is already painted up Vior'la I figure for occasional battles Farsight can show up as part of a "tech swap" with a crisis team acting as his bodyguard. Could be fun.

Yeah, it's not entirely unfluffy but the more I think about it, the more I want to be playing "my dudes". The way I'm painting them up, they've got a variety of crazy camo patterns projected onto their armor to match the bases they're on, but the ones that are not done up in camo (showing the underlying armor) it's all painted up in extremely beaten up and weathered Viorla scheme. The farsight detachment is just going to be a reflection of how incredibly far they've gone into the Mont'ka doctrine of extreme aggression, even past the normal Vior'la fire and candor. My Aunshi is also very likely to be a heavy kitbash rather than the official model.

I think a fusion blade commander might outperform Farsight anyway, between its shooting and its close combat attacks it'll deal a ton of damage to a vehicle target. Plus you can give it a shield generator and Iridium armor and it's more durable than farsight and still fewer points.

I think Broadsides are great now, but I don't think I'd use more than 1 in a unit so you run less risk of getting that ludicrously expensive group of battle bots tied up and unable to shoot.

Longstrike-lead ionheads sound pretty great, and I'm interested to see what happens with the double-HBC forgeworld variant. I mean, if it goes from heavy 16 to heavy 24 with 2 dmg, that'd be all sorts of worth 200pts, considering it'll hit on 2s until Longstrike eats it. Tau tank spam, anyone? If they do end up getting FtGG, those Hammerheads are going to essentially be impossible to assault. Just gets worse if they can have vehicle upgrades.

I think they still suffer from the same thing they did during the index-era.

The hammerhead costs roughly the same but is around twice as durable(Not counting in drones, which make the broadside more durable but cost points for each hit they absorb). More importantly, the tank flies which is huge.

wighti wrote:
I think they still suffer from the same thing they did during the index-era.

The hammerhead costs roughly the same but is around twice as durable(Not counting in drones, which make the broadside more durable but cost points for each hit they absorb). More importantly, the tank flies which is huge.

Why not both?

Keep your broadsides in the back objectives, bubble wrapped by striker teams. Send your hammerheads to claim midfield. Drop suits forward. Sounds something I could get behind.

Also I don't think they are the same any more. A Railside is 90ish pts now while a Railhead is 140ish. Quite a difference.

Don't think Tau will have a problem with the big daemon princes as a pair of Vior'la quad fusion Coldstars can pretty much one-shot a Primarch with the hot blooded stratagem on one (the warlord, with precision of the hunter), having started 49" away at the beginning of the turn. For 110 pts less.
35.6 wounds with a -4 save after a single marker hit.

Against Mortarion, you'd knock off 11.7 wounds once you've taken into account his invulnerable save and disgustingly resilient.

[Edit] Still in an older mindset, Coldstars are not infantry - so that makes more sense.

You'd need three Coldstars to do this, but they'd no longer need to be Vior'la - so two (including the warlord) would be able jump back to 15" using strike and fade and/or retro thrusters. Once just needs to fire off the Mont'ka aura to get around the fire and advance penalty.

Having the warlord and a friend being back out at 15" though, able to jump 40" away the following turn means it's not a suicide mission for everyone. Though you're now 40pts over Mortarion - but it's not like a JSJ quad fusion Coldstar is going to be hurting for targets...

You were taking a Dal'yth and T'au detachment to supplement your Bork'an troops anyway?

Tastyfish wrote:
Don't think Tau will have a problem with the big daemon princes as a pair of Vior'la quad fusion Coldstars can pretty much one-shot a Primarch with the hot blooded stratagem on one of them, having started 49" away at the beginning of the turn.

Unless they change it commanders can't use that stratagem because they are not infantry.

 FirePainter wrote:

Tastyfish wrote:
Don't think Tau will have a problem with the big daemon princes as a pair of Vior'la quad fusion Coldstars can pretty much one-shot a Primarch with the hot blooded stratagem on one of them, having started 49" away at the beginning of the turn.

Unless they change it commanders can't use that stratagem because they are not infantry.

Yep. People, read your datasheets. lol

So now that we know coldstar commanders can take 4 weapons how are you guys feeling about 4 flamers on a cold star? While flamers might now be the best on a commander due to their bs 2+, being able to put down 4 flamers where ever you want them is pretty powerful. It also makes great charge deterrent if you put that commander next to a 4 fusion commander. The Thermoneutronic Projected (Vior’la Sept) flamer also just seems powerful enough that you might consider 3 fusion 1 thermoneutronic projecter.

The problem with flamers on a coldstar is opportunity cost. Coldstar is the most mobile thing in the army and hits on a 2+. Why puts auto hitting things on that? You really want either CIBs or Meltas. Anything else can be done using cheaper and more spammable platforms.

Lol Necron dynasties spoilers already put theirs tactics far above T'au ones...

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Lol Necron dynasties spoilers already put theirs tactics far above T'au ones...

Unless those are fake. And even then I don't feel they are that far above.

I'm happy if they make necrons playable again. I miss facing those undying robot duders, but they are not my cup of tea. Going to be fun to beat them with my blue goatfishes.