8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Waking Dreamer**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

greyknight12 wrote:
Yeah, I’ve said it before but ultimately our hope is in psychic awakening. The points cuts are nice, and do give us more firepower (another dreadnought, 40 more storm bolter shots, etc). It’s not insignificant, but it’s really going to come down to us getting other boosts to either our damage output or durability.

My secret, horrible fear is that we will get...The Psychic Doctrine! While in the psychic doctrine, we get +1 AP on our psychic powers, or something equally worthless. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Now that you mention it, I'm kind of liking a Psychic Doctrine buff rather than a Copy+Paste Combat Doctrine system. Obviously the execution of the alternative shouldn't be useless but have DA get their Combat Doctrines while we get something more distinct.

Combat Doctrines can be used from T1-T3, while our Psychic Doctrine would buffs us every psychic phase (question is what would that be tho)...

**Aeri**

Casting Powers more than once.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Casting Powers more than once.

**Smotejob**

Yup. I wouldn't mind being able to have doctrines, but instead of normal doctrine, have a psychic doctrine. What I would think is fun is a psychic doctrine where all units learn a new power based on the active doctrine. This new power can be cast by everyone with no 'rule of one' limitations. All being wc 5 or 6. They should be in line with the space Marines Dex but a little more powerful to reflect the psychic might (and chance to fail). This power can also be cast in addition to another power.

Example
devastator doctrine - everyone can cast a power changing the profiles on heavy weapons to -1ap +1damage.

Tactical doctrine - everyone can cast a psybolts type power giving -1ap +1 damage to bolters/storm bolters.

Assault - give a force effect changing all weapons from 1d3 damage to 1d6 damage.

These powers would help vs demons and everyone else.

It looks like other armies are getting new psychic powers/strategms/relics.

Looks like other armies are getting ways to make their army perform in their unique role.

Really want to see the librarian and Chaplin become useful.

Would also love to see Draigo get an updated model (long shot here I know).

**greyknight12**

I did the math on the list I took to LVO 2018...it comes out to 1630ish points after 2 years of price cuts. Or to put it a different way, I’ll be playing 2k games with what used to be a 2450 pt list.

**Azuza001**

I played a game vs a grey knight player yesterday, 2000 pts. I played black templars. I ended up winning, but it was an interesting matchup. We plan on replaying next week once the price drops are in our hands thanks to chapter approved but when I added his army up using the screen grabs from YouTube reviews his list next week will be 1833 vs mine staying 2000 pts. I am pretty interested in how these other armies will be able to take advantage of such a huge new savings.

**Aeri**

What is that list?

**Azuza001**

He had Crowe, a brother captain, 3x purifier squads min size, a 9 man inceptor squad, an apothecary, an ancient, a 6 man paladin squad, a grand master in nemesis armor, draigo, a land raider crusader, and a rhino. Some interesting stuff, for sure. Those purifiers were nasty, even with my 5+++ vs mortals it wasn't an easy fight.

The turning point was when I killed draigo, I had disembarked an assault terminator squad from a land raider crusader of my own and was about to charge in and lay waist to his paladin squad when I realized that draigo was a mere inch further away to their side and open to charge. So I charged him instead and did just enough wounds to kill him. Losing access to full rerolls really cut down on the output of the grey knights and from that point on it was templar faith stronger than grey knight fury.

I know he plans on redoing his list with the points drops to get a battalion in there, grey knights are just so cp starved most the time but he doesnt want to soup anything in. (Cant blame him, I dont like to soup either).

A trick that caught me completely off guard and made me incredibly jealous was the inceptor squad. He had them in the rhino, t1 it moved forward/advanced/popped smoke. I had to focus on the baby carrier and the land raider crusader with 15 purifiers in it so it was pretty safe. T2 the guys jumped out and were so fast getting across the table at that point that I was not prepared to take their assault and it cost me valuable time and resources dealing with them. Definitely a neat trick and one my assault marines cant do.

**Smotejob**

I've done that before with the rhino and interceptors. With falcions, they can get some damage out on the charge with hammerhand.

I tend to run my lists with a full paladin squad. It's point heavy, but man it does work.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'm surprised you let Purifiers do anything to be honest. They're just so bad.

**Jancoran**

zangrya wrote:
CA points are out, finally got some love for our infantry!

I worked out a few point drops, there might be more that I missed.

Nemesis Dreadknight -30
GM Dreadknight -20
Dreadfist/Two Dreadfists -15/-20
Paladins -6
Interceptors -4
Strike Squad -5
Terminators -7
Purgation Squad -5
Purifier squad -5
Psilencer (terminator) -4
Psycannon (terminator) -4
Incinerator (terminator) -4

Those are all base costs so just add +1 to all infantry because every melee weapon now costs 1pt instead of 0 (probably +2 pts for falchions).

Ohmuhgad....I am going to be a very happy man.

**Smotejob**

At these prices, I may like having a few more psilencers or psycannons in my army.

Incinerators still have the same issue of being 8 inches.

**psipso**

Smotejob wrote:
Yup. I wouldn't mind being able to have doctrines, but instead of normal doctrine, have a psychic doctrine. What I would think is fun is a psychic doctrine where all units learn a new power based on the active doctrine. This new power can be cast by everyone with no 'rule of one' limitations. All being wc 5 or 6. They should be in line with the space Marines Dex but a little more powerful to reflect the psychic might (and chance to fail).

and chances of peril. Don´t forget that brother. Don't you forget it as we have already lost countless valuable brothers due to the psychic fatigue. May they souls dwells under the protection of the emperor.

More precisely, the chances of peril at least once every 12 casts is: 1-(1-2/36)^12 = 49.63 %

**Jancoran**

Umm... gk arent required to use their +1. THEY MAY.

**Smotejob**

Jancoran wrote:
Umm... gk arent required to use their +1. THEY MAY.

Is there a reason you wouldn't?

**Xenomancers**

Give me copy pasta doctrines and the super doctrine be in the tactical doctrine grey knight units give -1 save to all daemon units and get +1 to all advance and charge moves.

**tneva82**

Smotejob wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
Umm... gk arent required to use their +1. THEY MAY.

Is there a reason you wouldn't?

One reason that i can think of would be avoid supersmite to avoid killing unit when you need it wounded but alive.

Rare case albeit. Far less than when you don't want to pick highest with meltas

**wannabmoy**

Super smites ... if only ...

**Xenomancers**

I think GK smite needs to match thousand sons smite rules. For baby smite a 10+ is d3 mortals. Characters obviously need true smite as well. If these changes aren't implemented it is clear that whoever made the rules had no interest in making GK viable.

**Jancoran**

Smotejob wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
Umm... gk arent required to use their +1. THEY MAY.

Is there a reason you wouldn't?

Miscasts

**Slayer-Fan123**

Xenomancers wrote:
I think GK smite needs to match thousand sons smite rules. For baby smite a 10+ is d3 mortals. Characters obviously need true smite as well. If these changes aren't implemented it is clear that whoever made the rules had no interest in making GK viable.

What GK need are bespoke powers like they used to have so that the units that would actually utilize them actually have a purpose, and then we completely rework the Sanctic table.

**greyknight12**

It’s a double 1 or double 6, not a 2 or 12. Brotherhood of Psykers adds 1 to the result, not to any specific dice roll. Even if it did add to the individual dice, you could add it to the 6 you rolled and not the 5.
So +1 to cast doesn’t cause you to perils on an 11. Otherwise no one would use Magnus in chaos lists (+4 to cast).

**Grey Templar**

wuestenfux wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
Another squad won't make a difference.

Not much.
We need GKSS with 2 wounds per model.

Wouldn't make much difference given how much shooting has multiple wounds. Thats one reason Terminators are kinda meh even with the move to 2 wounds. So much stuff still just kills them the same as it did in previous editions.

**Smotejob**

If our Chaplin gets the litany table, will the Chaplin become usable, or dare I say good?

**Slayer-Fan123**

Smotejob wrote:
If our Chaplin gets the litany table, will the Chaplin become usable, or dare I say good?

No because Jump Pack Chap > Termi Chap, and that most of the litanies don't do much for the army to be honest. Yeah the bonus to charges is cold and that's it.

**Badablack**

I’ve played about 6 games since CA with grey knights, and the points changes have helped a little bit. I can squeeze 2 full squads of Paladins with psilencers into a soup army now, with Draigo and an apothecary. Combat squad‘ing the Paladins gives me 2 5-man beatstick units in deepstrike with the rest next to Draigo putting out a ton of psilencer shots, preferably in cover.

**Xenomancers**

Something that would REALLY help the GK army would be the master of the forge tech marine upgrade. For GMDK to move and hit on 2's and even a regular DK moving and hitting on 3's RR 1's would be huge.

Call me Crazy but I like the Command LR points drops. A 5++ so you don't get insta deleted - plus a grav cannon to add into your astral aim mix is REALLY nice. A great place to put a few purgation squads.

If there is any kind of tactical doctrine like in codex marines I think strikes could become our top tier unit. 40 AP-1 shots is nothing to sneeze at - especially when you can go str 5 ap-2 with stratagem.

Man I am excited for these new rules.

**Lord Clinto**

Something I'd really like to see is PAGK Characters with the ability to take Interceptor Jump Packs. Seems like it would be a nice little riff of Phobos Primaris marines and give GK more flexibility.

**wuestenfux**

Here is my list I played before the pt change (Paladins were left out atm):

Spoiler:

Now I have more than 400 pts left.
Paladins, Armiger Hellglaives or what not?

**Badablack**

It might not matter for your local games, but riflemen dreads got punted into Legends. No more dual auto cannon options unfortunately.

**Waking Dreamer**

^ I'd say Draigo is a good investment for the re-rolls of 1s and 2s, and a BrotherCap to maximize your MSU smite output to 24" range, to compliment your mass stormbolters.