Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What do you guys think of gargoyls and the flying tyranids in general?

Also made a list using a brigade detachment:

4x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands
5x3 Ripper Swarms
5 Genstealers
3x Liktors
2x Harpies with Stranglethorn Cannon
1x Drude with Flamer
20x Gargoyles (or maybe 2x10 Gargs)
3x Mawlocs

Should be near 2000 points, if i haven't forgot something.

Hope i don't miscalculated something here^^. What do you think of it? Decent list or more crap?


Update: Forget it messed up by adding the points, as i forgot to add all the options to the models.

But made a new list and i hope this time it's right

Supreme Command Detachment
3x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Talons
1x Lictor with Rending Claws, Talons

Outrider Detachment
1x Hivetyrant with Wings, double Talons
3x Lictors with Rending Claws, Talons each
1 Hivecrone with Tentaclids, Winged Talons, Droolcannon
2x Harpies with Sporeminecluster, Stranglethorn Cannon, Winged Talons
30x Gargoyles with Fleshborer Guns (could also split them in 3 groups of 10 if it's more effective)
2x Mawloc with Tailweapon and tripple Scything Talons

Should be around 1820 points. Hope this time i got it right =). What do you think of it?

 Lance845 wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

I can say 1 blob of Termagants with 1 Tervigon is underwhelming. But get 2 Tervigons with 3 30 man blobs of gants and they become a nightmare. Stick that in front of a living artillery node (biovores and exocrine with Warriors to act as back field synapse and fire off their cannons) and I think a shooty Nid list would be down right vicious.

I would also consider Hive Guard. Impaler Cannons are a great source of S8 at range, and would nicely synergize with the shooty build.

Thinking of starting Tyranids. Here's the first 1,00 points I'm considering:

Battalion Detachment =3 Command Points
1 Broodlord
19 Genestealers,w/rending claws
1 Tyrannocyte, 5 Venom Cannons
1 Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
3 Biovores

(993 Points)

To bring it up to 2,000 I would add:

1 Flying Hive Tyrant, Monstrous Boneswords, 2 Deathspitters w/Slimer Maggots
1 Deathleaper
1 Harpy, Stinger Salvo, 2 Hvy Venom Cannons
1 Exocrine
1 Exocrine
Add toxin sacs to the previous list Genestealers to make the remaining points

(1,999 Points)

 Darksider wrote:
What do you guys think of gargoyls and the flying tyranids in general?

Also made a list using a brigade detachment:

4x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands
5x3 Ripper Swarms
5 Genstealers
3x Liktors
2x Harpies with Stranglethorn Cannon
1x Drude with Flamer
20x Gargoyles (or maybe 2x10 Gargs)
3x Mawlocs

Should be near 2000 points, if i haven't forgot something.

I like the concept and may run something close to it due to having more Tyrants with wings than is appropriate. I have a few things I might change.

I would consider running the Tyrants as single talon with a pair of deathspitters. You give up the extra CC attack to gain some decent shooting. Remeber that you don't have to shoot at the same target as you charge anymore, so you could in theory cripple/kill two squads a turn. Most units that can survive a Tyrant in CC are not worried about the extra single swing-a double talon Tyrant kills the same things a single talon Tyrant does, and gets munched by the same things a single talon Tyrant gets munched by.

5 Genestealers isn't going to do much by themselves, especially as you don't have a delivery mechanism for them. 3 Warriors with a cannon costs about the same amount of points, and will be more useful due to being able to plink while camping an objective. Alteratly, 6x Rippers fills the Troops slots cheaply.

I assume Drude with flamer = Pyrovore, in which case the same applies: in order to be useful you need more of them and a way to get them to their targets (I.e. a pod). If you mean Hive Crone, Crones are mev, a Harpy would be better.

The Stranglethorn cannon on Harpies is not good. Venom Cannons are better.

Trygons/Mawlocs are some of my favorite models in the game. Trygons look superior to Mawlocs so far. I would be very interested in hearing how the triple Mawloc works out for you on the table.

The 2x10 vs 1x20 Gargs feels like a toss up to me. 2x10 can engage more targets, but 10 Gargs only hit so hard. The new split fire rules mean that it is harder to force a unit to overkill small squads, so that advantage doesn't apply. Big squads can be chained back to bubbles like synapse or Venomthrope, but your synapse is fast and you don't have venom. Try both and see which works better?

 Darksider wrote:


Hope i don't miscalculated something here^^. What do you think of it? Decent list or more crap?


Update: Forget it messed up by adding the points, as i forgot to add all the options to the models.

But made a new list and i hope this time it's right

Supreme Command Detachment
3x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Talons
1x Lictor with Rending Claws, Talons

Outrider Detachment
1x Hivetyrant with Wings, double Talons
3x Lictors with Rending Claws, Talons each
1 Hivecrone with Tentaclids, Winged Talons, Droolcannon
2x Harpies with Sporeminecluster, Stranglethorn Cannon, Winged Talons
30x Gargoyles with Fleshborer Guns (could also split them in 3 groups of 10 if it's more effective)
2x Mawloc with Tailweapon and tripple Scything Talons

Should be around 1820 points. Hope this time i got it right =). What do you think of it?

Same comments as above on Tyrants, Harpy/Crone, Mawlocs, Gargoyle unit size. Harpies are 2x on the Stranglethorn/Venom Cannon. I don't think you can take only one cannon, and you have to pay for both.

Gaming groups are going to vary, but it looks like the standard game size is going up. Might be worth your time to bump the list to 2000.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 D6Damager wrote:
Thinking of starting Tyranids. Here's the first 1,00 points I'm considering:

Battalion Detachment =3 Command Points
1 Broodlord
19 Genestealers,w/rending claws
1 Tyrannocyte, 5 Venom Cannons
1 Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
3 Biovores

(993 Points)

To bring it up to 2,000 I would add:

1 Flying Hive Tyrant, Monstrous Boneswords, 2 Deathspitters w/Slimer Maggots
1 Deathleaper
1 Harpy, Stinger Salvo, 2 Hvy Venom Cannons
1 Exocrine
1 Exocrine
Add toxin sacs to the previous list Genestealers to make the remaining points

(1,999 Points)

I like scything talons on the tyrant more than I like the boneswords. Conversely, I like boneswords on the prime more than I like rending.

The Tyrant benefits from rerolling ones more than he does the extra attack-with how hard he hits protecting yourself from wiffing with a bad roll is more valuable than a extra swing. The Prime doesn't put out enough attacks to make rending worth it, and I am not super excited about lash/sword. That opinion may change as the edition goes on, depending on how many things get to hit out of sequence.

Instead of toxin on the 'stealers at 2k, I suggest dropping the pod for a Trygon. If you can make it work at 1k, I would drop the pod for a Trygon there as well. The Trygon is jjust as good at delivering 'stealers and is a much bigger threat.

Regular Boneswords > Regular Talons

Monstrous Talons > Monstrous Boneswords


Also, is anyone planning to use lictor bodyguards to their venomthropes? At -2 to hit from range they'd be pretty hard to move but I'm not sure about the tactical benefits of using a lictor like that.

Spoletta wrote:

I would wait for a FAQ confirming that the Rending claw on HT for free is not a misprint. Weapons at 0 points are either base troop weapons (fleshborers, boltguns and such) or strong weapons that are available to a single model and for that they are already included in the cost of that mode (like all the weapons of the haruspex).
Since in 7th the only model with those claws was the broodlord, i think there is a misprint in the monstrous bio weapon list. Rending claws shouldn't be there.

Hive Tyrants shipped with plastic rending claws on the monstrous creature sprue (eg the one the previous warrior kit had until last edition) for 3 editions and have had the option for them in every edition I have played in, including 7th (relic talons are an option). I don't think the list is the typo, but the points probably weren't calculated with that in mind. Easy enough for GW to add a (Broodlord) 0 point listing and (Everyone else) X points like they do for many Tyranid upgrades. That's how I suspect this will play out, but either way worth knowing before gluing things.

Aside, I actually built custom hands with claws, just as arm filler on my magnetized hive tyrant. Happy accident they are now 0 point awesome sauce.

stratigo wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

Retreating isn't a problem with Genestealers. Any unit they hit is already dead .

I've played a few games, and stealers are just really really good. I can imagine a few armies that would do well against them (Man spam guard could speed bump and then shoot them a lot pretty well), but for certain armies I'm having trouble thinking what could be done. Space marines have costlier models, and not many SM players are rocking like 30 or 40 scouts just to run enough bubble wrap.

True, but remember this a new set of rules I don't any reason a Speez Mahreenz playa can't toss SoBs or AM into his formation. They all have "Imperium" someplace so they gotz the Wordz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even moreso I expect to see Guard Brigades tossing in a Spearhead, or Vanguard of SMs being a "thing". Or just adding in a unit using Wordz, Orders won't help them, but it is both "fluffy" and competative.

Are Biovores very very good?

If the can't move within 1" of an enemy model is a thing, then yes, I feel they are.

Damage wise... 2+ to mortal wound, i.e. no save.

So as an average, 10 hits, 8 wounds (6's are D3 so winner is you but rare, ofc.). That's more like 16 hits for an equivalent weapon (or 60% better?) vs the most likely situation where Str = Toughness, i.e. 4+ to wound.

The missing though, is where it really starts to shine. You get to place it, within a 3-6" halo around the target, which can really impact units that don't have the Fly keyword or similar.

(Edit: Looking at the rules, I feel the turn you setup a Spore mine from a missed Biovore shot, I believe you cannot advance.. due to fairness/RAI/RAW but if you could, technically Biovores will virtually never 'miss', as the placed Spore mine uses an advance move in the shooting phase to D6" move into within 3" of an enemy unit > exploding on that coming fight phase.)

Razerous wrote:

(Edit: Looking at the rules, I feel the turn you setup a Spore mine from a missed Biovore shot, I believe you cannot advance.. due to fairness/RAI/RAW but if you could, technically Biovores will virtually never 'miss', as the placed Spore mine uses an advance move in the shooting phase to D6" move into within 3" of an enemy unit > exploding on that coming fight phase.)

Advance happens in the movement phase, so no they cannot

Yes you can still waste turns with spore mines, but now they don't restrict shooting, movement and assault. Now, they would only restrict moving plus shooting or moving plus assault

They restrict deep strike. Clever placement of missed spore mines can seriously screw up deep strikers because they now have to be more than 9" away from it. Also at 24 points per biovore... they really don't need to be very effective to be worth more than their points.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They restrict deep strike. Clever placement of missed spore mines can seriously screw up deep strikers because they now have to be more than 9" away from it. Also at 24 points per biovore... they really don't need to be very effective to be worth more than their points.

Don't forget to add the spore mine launcher. So they're 36 points each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Razerous wrote:
Are Biovores very very good?

They're very good for shooting mortal wounds on the big targets and after a few turns it really starts to add up. But the best thing about them is the fact that they're cheap units to keep in the backfield for babysitting objectives, and when using them as single models you can keep them hidden first turn and got the right amount of units deployed so that you can let the other half of your army come out of reserves (matched play). If the enemy get's first turn then the got nothing to shoot at, maybe a single fat one sticking out his butt behind a tree if the terrain sucks. Small price to pay.

Just had my first match yesterday vs Ba:
My list
2 dakka flyrant
Swarmlord
28 hg with poison
16 gene
3 rippers
2 meleefex
1 trygon

His list
Librarian
5 sanguinary 1 pf
2 tac with plasma in razorback with ass cannon
1 sniper scout
1 vindicator
1 fraggioso
2 ass squad with plasma

Round 1 got stealers in cc with vindicator and sniper and blocked in combat with razorback ; the trygon assaulted the fraggioso and the gaunts had Locked in combat the razorback.
Round 3 he gave up since he had left only a tac and a razorback. I lost 6 gaunts, 2 fexes and 4 gene.
The new nids are a fu..ing bomb!!!
The swarmlord ability is insane, we are fast as zergs on meth and in cc we are absolutely deadly.
New ed means that you can lock in combat multiple units and basically force your opponent to do your game.
Watch out infantry vs veichle and do not have low ap models attacking high saves units or you are done.
Dakka tyrant are a thing of the past, is all cc this ed.
For my 2k list I'll add 3 tyrant guards, an exocrine, 3 biovore sand more ag for the monsters.
One question we seemed to not understand, as you need to be in 1" for having a successful charge, isn't a 8" charge enough to get in combat when we arrive from ds?
Nids are back baby!!!

 Emicrania wrote:

One question we seemed to not understand, as you need to be in 1" for having a successful charge, isn't a 8" charge enough to get in combat when we arrive from ds?
Nids are back baby!!!

You need to deploy more than 9" away, so a 8"+1" isn't enough.

Tyran wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

One question we seemed to not understand, as you need to be in 1" for having a successful charge, isn't a 8" charge enough to get in combat when we arrive from ds?
Nids are back baby!!!

You need to deploy more than 9" away, so a 8"+1" isn't enough.

This, that's why it makes sense to buy adrenal glands on your trygon, also try to get them within onslaught range so you can advance and charge the turn you arrive.

Tyran wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

One question we seemed to not understand, as you need to be in 1" for having a successful charge, isn't a 8" charge enough to get in combat when we arrive from ds?
Nids are back baby!!!

You need to deploy more than 9" away, so a 8"+1" isn't enough.

So 9,1" is ok, 9" no?

 Emicrania wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

One question we seemed to not understand, as you need to be in 1" for having a successful charge, isn't a 8" charge enough to get in combat when we arrive from ds?
Nids are back baby!!!

You need to deploy more than 9" away, so a 8"+1" isn't enough.

So 9,1" is ok, 9" no?

basically.

skycapt44 wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

One question we seemed to not understand, as you need to be in 1" for having a successful charge, isn't a 8" charge enough to get in combat when we arrive from ds?
Nids are back baby!!!

You need to deploy more than 9" away, so a 8"+1" isn't enough.

This, that's why it makes sense to buy adrenal glands on your trygon, also try to get them within onslaught range so you can advance and charge the turn you arrive.

The problem with onslaught and Trygons is that, onslaught doesnt allow you to advance after the movement phase, it simply let's you charge even if you had already advanced in the movement phase. Adrenal glands strike me as a no brainer however.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skycapt44 wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

One question we seemed to not understand, as you need to be in 1" for having a successful charge, isn't a 8" charge enough to get in combat when we arrive from ds?
Nids are back baby!!!

You need to deploy more than 9" away, so a 8"+1" isn't enough.

This, that's why it makes sense to buy adrenal glands on your trygon, also try to get them within onslaught range so you can advance and charge the turn you arrive.

The problem with onslaught and Trygons is that, onslaught doesnt allow you to advance after the movement phase, it simply let's you charge even if you had already advanced in the movement phase. Adrenal glands strike me as a no brainer however.

Yes they were really lazy in pricing the glands, should have been more granular.

Has anyone tried a few big blobs off toxin hormas? All those rerolls they hey coupled with DAM2 on 6s seems very strong to me, considering a full brood off 30 is only 210 points, or roughly a tactical squad with heavy+special.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Has anyone tried a few big blobs off toxin hormas? All those rerolls they hey coupled with DAM2 on 6s seems very strong to me, considering a full brood off 30 is only 210 points, or roughly a tactical squad with heavy+special.

I used one. It was against necrons though and the warrior blobs were getting eaten up regardless. I would like to see it in action against an actual threat.

 Lance845 wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
Has anyone tried a few big blobs off toxin hormas? All those rerolls they hey coupled with DAM2 on 6s seems very strong to me, considering a full brood off 30 is only 210 points, or roughly a tactical squad with heavy+special.

I used one. It was against necrons though and the warrior blobs were getting eaten up regardless. I would like to see it in action against an actual threat.

That's wonderful! Especially because the astartes are losing their minds over how "reanimation OP ban necrons!" over in general. Glad to hear the great devouror is a force to be feared. Can't wait until we get hive fleet rules!

I think toxin sacs are a must have since you'll be looking for 5+/6+ to wound against high toughness targets anyway, which are also the same ones you'll want to have the extra damage against.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shogun wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They restrict deep strike. Clever placement of missed spore mines can seriously screw up deep strikers because they now have to be more than 9" away from it. Also at 24 points per biovore... they really don't need to be very effective to be worth more than their points.

Don't forget to add the spore mine launcher. So they're 36 points each.

Derp. Thanks for the correction.

Yeah a lot of people seem to be forgetting that Advance happens in the movement phase now..

Keep seeing people posting strats around that place, that involves Depp Striking then running...

I don't think i'm going to leave home without at least one 30 strong hormagaunt unit. They do so much for just 150 points. They are a fast melee treath. Counters transport play. Negates necron protocols.

There are so many situations where being surrounded puts you in a really bad situation, and hormagaunts are the best at this, with high model count and 12" move after charging.

GodDamUser wrote:
Yeah a lot of people seem to be forgetting that Advance happens in the movement phase now..

Keep seeing people posting strats around that place, that involves Depp Striking then running...

Gunna take longer for people to realize that a unit which charges always gets a pile-in, even if there are no enemy models within 1" by the time they are picked to fight. This is of particular relevance to hormagaunts...

I'll say it again, I think nids are the strongest army of the indexes. We'll how codexes change the math, but wow nids are strong

Nids right now are really strong because people still hasn't let go of the 7th playstile (gunlines) and nids possess the strongest counter to that, in the form of extremely powerfull and relyable turn 1 charges.
Once Tau start using lines of kroots, AM start using sacrificial lines and so on, we will have to think our tactics again and i'm not sure we are going to still be on top.

Spoletta wrote:
Nids right now are really strong because people still hasn't let go of the 7th playstile (gunlines) and nids possess the strongest counter to that, in the form of extremely powerfull and relyable turn 1 charges.
Once Tau start using lines of kroots, AM start using sacrificial lines and so on, we will have to think our tactics again and i'm not sure we are going to still be on top.

Agreed that we should add a little cautious to that optimism. I've already been tabled by a savvy tau player using a crisis suit heavy list and lots of screening drones. Granted it was my first game of 8th (and first game with nids in a looong time) so I made a couple critical mistakes.

I'll post a bat rep later, but for now, here's our lists:

2k Nids:


2k Tau:

That's the exact nid list that i fear we will have to abandon. It's tiered to provide the most brutal assault possible.

Double rank assault is the way to go for nids IMHO. One fast wave that hits the screening units turn 1-2 and a second slower but thougher wave that hits turn 2-3. The first wave will be slaughtered, but coupled with a bit of disruption (raveners, lictors and maybe trygons) it will keep attention away from the second wave.

Mix that with support and shooting at your pleasure.

These kind of lists will also provide some screening units for us, against those list where we are going to need it. Green tides for example.